The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

[Cosmic77]

A year ago, I would've said to keep an eye on BotW2 for newcomer options. But now it's looking increasingly likely that it won't be out until 2022, putting it too late to safely pull a newcomer from. Much less a stage, Spirit Board, or music. It'd all have still been a work in progress when development on Fighter #11 started.

It'd be difficult, but I think it's doable. Just depends on how long they take to make the character. If they buckle down after E3 and milk the deadline up to the last quarter of 2021, I think they could make it happen.

The stage would be the most difficult part, and we already have examples of stages being made almost a year before the game it was taken from launched (Wooly World). The character can go either way. If the character fights mostly with a weapon, then a majority of the moveset should design itself. It also wouldn't be as difficult if said character was also in the orginal BotW. Spirits and music tracks shouldn't require much time; I can't imagine either posing a problem to Sakurai, even if they started just now.

We'll see what happens though. It'll require a lot of cooperation between the teams of BotW and Ultimate.

 

[fogbadge]

I've heard people suggest that a Pokemon Presents could happen later in the month, skipping e3 altogether. How likely is that?

possible but i wouldnt think it was likely. people seem to think that we're getting a pokemon presents just cause weve had one around this time before which isnt much of an argument as pokemon has also been at E3 before.

 

[LukeRNG]

possible but i wouldnt think it was likely. people seem to think that we're getting a pokemon presents just cause weve had one around this time before which isnt much of an argument as pokemon has also been at E3 before.

People fixate on recent patterns forgetting the past altogether. Cause along with the Fairy type being revealed at e3 I just remembered that we didn't see gameplay for ORAS till e3 2014.

 

[fogbadge]

People fixate on recent patterns forgetting the past altogether. Cause along with the Fairy type being revealed at e3 I just remembered that we didn't see gameplay for ORAS till e3 2014.

not to mention the appearance of sword and shield at the last E3 that left that err lets say left its mark

 

[LukeRNG]

not to mention the appearance of sword and shield at the last E3 that left that err lets say left its mark

At least they were honest about the cutting of pokemon. They could've easily said nothing & let the game release with worse drama.

 

[fogbadge]

At least they were honest about the cutting of pokemon. They could've easily said nothing & let the game release with worse drama.

yeah i could have been so much worse

 

[zacian]

Oh Jesus I haven’t been on here for a while, hi. Anyway I hope Zacian gets into smash tomorrow and has an awesome trailer featuring scrimblo bimblo

 

[LukeRNG]

I think it's safe to say that if the next fighter is 1st party, they'd show it earlier in the direct. If there's no character in the first 10-20 minutes then it's more likely 3rd party (plus there'd be no chance of getting the last character revealed).

Also, I can see the pokemon rep being the Legends Arceus Trainer to go along with keeping a recent character in the roster. The pokemon themselves are already established & I highly doubt they'll introduce something new for them that's a drastic change (mega or a new evolution). Another pokemon trainer woudn't be a bad idea & we know Sakurai is willing to go a step further for the more elaborate & unconventional characters (Min Min, Steve & Pyra/Mythra).

Or for a BotW rep I can also see having the champions being playable.

 

[Delzethin]

It'd be difficult, but I think it's doable. Just depends on how long they take to make the character. If they buckle down after E3 and milk the deadline up to the last quarter of 2021, I think they could make it happen.

The stage would be the most difficult part, and we already have examples of stages being made almost a year before the game it was taken from launched (Wooly World). The character can go either way. If the character fights mostly with a weapon, then a majority of the moveset should design itself. It also wouldn't be as difficult if said character was also in the orginal BotW. Spirits and music tracks shouldn't require much time; I can't imagine either posing a problem to Sakurai, even if they started just now.

We'll see what happens though. It'll require a lot of cooperation between the teams of BotW and Ultimate.

If I remember right, it takes at least six months to create a new fighter from start to finish. With the schedule we're on so far, Fighter #11 is set to be ready some time in the fall. They'd need to have started work on #11 some time in March at the absolute latest, which means they couldn't have waited until now to start.

Would Sakurai and the team be comfortable pulling a character, stage, and the works from a game that likely still had a year's worth of development to go at the time of the decision? When all of it could undergo changes that the Smash team wouldn't be able to adjust to as easily? I have my doubts.

I think it's safe to say that if the next fighter is 1st party, they'd show it earlier in the direct. If there's no character in the first 10-20 minutes then it's more likely 3rd party (plus there'd be no chance of getting the last character revealed).

I don't think we can tell anything from the placement of a Smash trailer, honestly. They've usually been early on regardless of who they're for and regardless of if there was another in the same presentation.

 

[LukeRNG]

If I remember right, it takes at least six months to create a new fighter from start to finish. With the schedule we're on so far, Fighter #11 is set to be ready some time in the fall. They'd need to have started work on #11 some time in March at the absolute latest, which means they couldn't have waited until now to start.

Would Sakurai and the team be comfortable pulling a character, stage, and the works from a game that likely still had a year's worth of development to go at the time of the decision? When all of it could undergo changes that the Smash team wouldn't be able to adjust to as easily? I have my doubts.


I don't think we can tell anything from the placement of a Smash trailer, honestly. They've usually been early on regardless of who they're for and regardless of if there was another in the same presentation.

That's true. Still, I feel a chance of a 2nd reveal if it's early.

Wish we see some good stuff about pokemon.

 

[LukeRNG]

Oh, Tekken rep. Makes sense, but didn't think of it.

Interesting that it's Kazuya over Heihachi.

Edit: Really, no pokemon? I'm surprised (they're really skipping Treehouse, bizarre). Anyways, really good direct: new 2d metroid, new wario ware, a mario party that looks promising, the return of advance wars, BotW 2 looks crazy, Danganronpa collection.

Really feels like the last character will be 1st party now, and certainly not from BotW (pokemon rep more likely) now that BotW won't come out till 2022. You were right on the next 3rd party being less of a big name than Steve & Sephiroth, but I'm excited for Tekken representation. Strange they didn't save the Heihachi mii for Kazuya.

 

[Delzethin]

So, I think that worked out for us. We figured Fighter #10 was probably one last third party, and Kazuya's hand-to-hand fighting style means Fighter #11 wielding, say, a sword or shield wouldn't be too egregious. And since there's precedent toward DLC ending with a deliberately recent first party...we're in a pretty decent spot.

 

[LukeRNG]

So, I think that worked out for us. We figured Fighter #10 was probably one last third party, and Kazuya's hand-to-hand fighting style means Fighter #11 wielding, say, a sword or shield wouldn't be too egregious. And since there's precedent toward DLC ending with a deliberately recent first party...we're in a pretty decent spot.

Hopefully people now don't get their hopes up too much for characters like Crash, Master Chief, Sora, Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, etc. NO ONE has been able to predict this fighter's pass at all, they're always caught off guard.

This also means dlc content like Miis & spirits don't mean a character can't happen, like many assumed. I only ruled out Tekken because we had the Heihachi Mii costume (this fully means the SwSh spirit event means nothing, like many liked to assume).


Now begins the wait till at least September....

 

[Cosmic77]

Had my hopes up for a surprise first-party, but this is pretty much what I expected. Despite it being E3, the third-party that got announced wasn't as "big" as Steve and Sephiroth, though the gap wasn't nearly to the extent of Terry.

Aside from that, yeah, we did benefit from today. The Heihachi costume returned with Min Min rather than...the exact series he came from. Questionable decision, but whatever. Third-parties took a hit today; if Kazuya was their E3 reveal, then I don't have high expectations for the final character being massive. Doesn't make much sense to pass up an opportunity to show someone like Crash or Sora when their audience is at its largest and opt for a random fall reveal instead. Not impossible, but certainly not the pattern they've been following.

First-parties are in a good position to take that final spot, and Pokémon is definitely in the best position out of every first-party. Zelda became a little less likely after today, but I'm not willing to rule it out completely.

 

[LukeRNG]

Had my hopes up for a surprise first-party, but this is pretty much what I expected. Despite it being E3, the third-party that got announced wasn't as "big" as Steve and Sephiroth, though the gap wasn't nearly to the extent of Terry.

Aside from that, yeah, we did benefit from today. The Heihachi costume returned with Min Min rather than...the exact series he came from. Questionable decision, but whatever. Third-parties took a hit today; if Kazuya was their E3 reveal, then I don't have high expectations for the final character being massive. Doesn't make much sense to pass up an opportunity to show someone like Crash or Sora when their audience is at its largest and opt for a random fall reveal instead. Not impossible, but certainly not the pattern they've been following.

First-parties are in a good position to take that final spot, and Pokémon is definitely in the best position out of every first-party. Zelda became a little less likely after today, but I'm not willing to rule it out completely.

Steve ws the only exception to that, but very unlikely they'd save someone huge for just a direct.


When should we expect pokemon news?

 

[Noipoi]

Steve ws the only exception to that, but very unlikely they'd save someone huge for just a direct.


When should we expect pokemon news?

I’m thinking a Pokémon presents next week, or the last week of June.

If not…I dunno

 

[Staarih]

When should we expect pokemon news?

I'm thinking we might get a Pokémon Presents later this month even. Joe Merrick said it pretty well:

I'm sure there's no reason to be concerned about lack of Pokémon BDSP/Legends Arceus news.

Seeing as we're due the Café Mix overhaul revealed in June and TiMi have been heavily hinting something Unite is coming soon, so I imagine we'll get something very soon

— Joe Merrick (@JoeMerrick) June 15, 2021

 

[LukeRNG]

I'm thinking we might get a Pokémon Presents later this month even. Joe Merrick said it pretty well:

I'm sure there's no reason to be concerned about lack of Pokémon BDSP/Legends Arceus news.

Seeing as we're due the Café Mix overhaul revealed in June and TiMi have been heavily hinting something Unite is coming soon, so I imagine we'll get something very soon

— Joe Merrick (@JoeMerrick) June 15, 2021

I'm thinking a week before the Kazuya Presentation then.

 

[Staarih]

It's something

Attention, Trainers! An important #PokemonUNITE news update is coming! Check back tomorrow to learn more! pic.twitter.com/8LoQceXbf5

— Pokémon (@Pokemon) June 16, 2021

 

[Noipoi]

It's something

Wow. They really don’t wanna show off the new games, huh?

I was hoping for some info in Legends especially…

 

[LukeRNG]

Wow. They really don’t wanna show off the new games, huh?

I was hoping for some info in Legends especially…

It's best to assume they're preparing the best footage they can muster. Maybe they couldn't give us the big trailer during e3.

 

[zacian]

I wonder who else they’re gonna add to Unite

 

[Cosmic77]

Still haven't got a tournament that focuses on sword fighters. I know there's dozens of characters who could launch alongside a sword tournament and it'd make sense, but I think Zacian would fit the theme better than almost anyone. Hard to compete with someone whose game is literally named "Sword".

Thought a little positive speculation would be nice. Only have one last chance.

 

[Staarih]

Pokemon UNITE coming this summer.

Cinderace hogging that spotlight haha

 

[Pokelego999]

Pokemon UNITE coming this summer.

Cinderace hogging that spotlight haha

Dang that trailer actually looks really good. Still wondering why there was no Presents for it though.

 

[fogbadge]

so its pokemon basketball?

 

[LukeRNG]

Pokemon UNITE coming this summer.

Cinderace hogging that spotlight haha

We know that really doesn't mean much, since Decidueye was added in Pokken DX and many made the mistake in assuming he was a shoe-in.

Dang that trailer actually looks really good. Still wondering why there was no Presents for it though.

Likely so people wouldn't be pissed that they wasted time on a microtransaction & lootbox heavy game made by the shady Tensent.
Only those interested in Unite will check it out (cause let's be honest, it was a mistake to have a dedicated presents to Unite last year when many were expecting something else).


Also, FINALLY a better look at the skins, these 2 are too good to just be in Unite:

 

[Delzethin]

I don't know what to think of Unite yet. The game looks interesting, but its developer has...a history.

Cinderace hogging that spotlight haha

We know that really doesn't mean much, since Decidueye was added in Pokken DX and many made the mistake in assuming he was a shoe-in.

Yeah, we know they didn't single out just one Pokémon option last time, so Cinderace featuring here doesn't tell us much of anything.

Besides, apparently Unite has a mechanic where legendaries can appear on the field during a game and you get extra points for defeating them. Which makes it sound like there won't be any playable legendaries, so the option wasn't there anyway.

Still haven't got a tournament that focuses on sword fighters. I know there's dozens of characters who could launch alongside a sword tournament and it'd make sense, but I think Zacian would fit the theme better than almost anyone. Hard to compete with someone whose game is literally named "Sword".

Thought a little positive speculation would be nice. Only have one last chance.

While we know tournament themes don't stop characters that apply to them from getting in a few months later...it is curious that we haven't had any themed around swords, shields, or heavyweights yet. It doesn't necessarily mean something, but it's worth keeping an eye on.

-----

On that note...speculation's about to get weird. There's one spot left, and the community's slowly splitting into two camps: one demanding a huge name to end DLC with the biggest spectacle possible...and the other remembering how past reveal cycles usually ended with recent first party characters and expecting someone boring and shoehorned in for advertising.

But we have something different: A recent first party option that is still different and appealing because of it. Maybe we can tap into that, gain more attention and recognition, and even ease some people's fears in the process.

 

[fogbadge]

On that note...speculation's about to get weird.

about to?

 

[LukeRNG]

I don't know what to think of Unite yet. The game looks interesting, but its developer has...a history.



Yeah, we know they didn't single out just one Pokémon option last time, so Cinderace featuring here doesn't tell us much of anything.

Besides, apparently Unite has a mechanic where legendaries can appear on the field during a game and you get extra points for defeating them. Which makes it sound like there won't be any playable legendaries, so the option wasn't there anyway.


While we know tournament themes don't stop characters that apply to them from getting in a few months later...it is curious that we haven't had any themed around swords, shields, or heavyweights yet. It doesn't necessarily mean something, but it's worth keeping an eye on.

-----

On that note...speculation's about to get weird. There's one spot left, and the community's slowly splitting into two camps: one demanding a huge name to end DLC with the biggest spectacle possible...and the other remembering how past reveal cycles usually ended with recent first party characters and expecting someone boring and shoehorned in for advertising.

But we have something different: A recent first party option that is still different and appealing because of it. Maybe we can tap into that, gain more attention and recognition, and even ease some people's fears in the process.

The number of people still holding out for Crash, Master Chief, Sora, Doomguy, etc. is alarming, specifically due to how desperate many sound; as if they'd be really pissed if the last character is "another #$%&ing pokemon". Don't really know if the likely backlash would be worse than Byleth: FE has the worst rep with people, but pokemon ending the dlc hype cicle isn't that appealing either to general audiences.

 

[fogbadge]

The number of people still holding out for Crash, Master Chief, Sora, Doomguy, etc. is alarming, specifically due to how desperate many sound; as if they'd be really pissed if the last character is "another #$%&ing pokemon". Don't really know if the likely backlash would be worse than Byleth: FE has the worst rep with people, but pokemon ending the dlc hype cicle isn't that appealing either to general audiences.

i think the general audience bring it on themselves in many ways

 

[Cosmic77]

Pokémon has an advantage due to the massive gap in players between SwSh and 3H.

Part of the reason why FE gets so much hate is that there's a ton of people who haven't played it and don't want to play it. It's easy to hate a character from a game you never played. On the flipside of that, you have Pokémon, which has been played by millions and millions of people. Even if fans didn't want another Pokémon, I can still see a lot of people react better simply because they're a little familiar with it, or at least more familiar with it than FE.

 

[LukeRNG]

Pokémon has an advantage due to the massive gap in players between SwSh and 3H.

Part of the reason why FE gets so much hate is that there's a ton of people who haven't played it and don't want to play it. It's easy to hate a character from a game you never played. On the flipside of that, you have Pokémon, which has been played by millions and millions of people. Even if fans didn't want another Pokémon, I can still see a lot of people react better simply because they're a little familiar with it, or at least more familiar with it than FE.

And playing as a member of a species is no different from playing as an avatar character. Plus Pokemon tend to be more visually disctinct compared to medieval human heroes with swords and most with blue hair.

 

[fogbadge]

Pokémon has an advantage due to the massive gap in players between SwSh and 3H.

Part of the reason why FE gets so much hate is that there's a ton of people who haven't played it and don't want to play it. It's easy to hate a character from a game you never played. On the flipside of that, you have Pokémon, which has been played by millions and millions of people. Even if fans didn't want another Pokémon, I can still see a lot of people react better simply because they're a little familiar with it, or at least more familiar with it than FE.

ive played fates and 3 houses and im still annoyed by corrin and byleth

 

[Cosmic77]

I looked through all of the DLC Mii Costumes from Smash 4 one last time. Aside from Lloyd, all we're missing is a generic Smash hoodie. I also went back and looked through the order they returned. With the exception of Hero who came exclusively with DQ costumes, every third-party who hails from a company that participated in Smash 4 brought back a costume owned by the same company (Joker/Sonic, Sephiroth/Geno, etc.). If Lloyd comes back with Kazuya, we can add that to the list.

It's not the most solid theory considering how three of the DLC third-parties are from new companies, but I'm going to lock down on something that I thought would apply to F10. I believe the last character won't be from a company already part of Smash. I think we're getting one of two things: a third-party from a.new company, or a first-party.

The only way this wouldn't work is if we get another DQ scenario where every costume is related to the same franchise, but considering how that's only happened once, I don't think that'll happen.

 

[fogbadge]

I looked through all of the DLC Mii Costumes from Smash 4 one last time. Aside from Lloyd, all we're missing is a generic Smash hoodie. I also went back and looked through the order they returned. With the exception of Hero who came exclusively with DQ costumes, every third-party who hails from a company that participated in Smash 4 brought back a costume owned by the same company (Joker/Sonic, Sephiroth/Geno, etc.). If Lloyd comes back with Kazuya, we can add that to the list.

It's not the most solid theory considering how three of the DLC third-parties are from new companies, but I'm going to lock down on something that I thought would apply to F10. I believe the last character won't be from a company already part of Smash. I think we're getting one of two things: a third-party from a.new company, or a first-party.

The only way this wouldn't work is if we get another DQ scenario where every costume is related to the same franchise, but considering how that's only happened once, I don't think that'll happen.

i count two new 3rd parties

 

[zacian]

I looked through all of the DLC Mii Costumes from Smash 4 one last time. Aside from Lloyd, all we're missing is a generic Smash hoodie.

Wait generic smash hoodie??

 

[LukeRNG]

Wait generic smash hoodie??

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Y'all forgetting about a real important one

 

[LukeRNG]

I found this a few days ago, and I feel it must be spread around the pokemon community:

It's not a hate video, but one that explains the likely scenario GameFreak is in to many pokemon fans that either overlook their predicament or purposefully ignore it selfishly. Doesn't take sides and properly criticizes both sides and how difficult it'll be to get out of. Maybe not perfect, but really good nonetheless.