The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

[fogbadge]

On another note, who would be your 2nd pick for a gen 8 rep if Zacian/Zamazenta aren't chosen? I'm absolutely on board with Dragapult the most.

i dont think i have favourite choices as such. just ones id love, ones id be ok with a ones i rather we didnt get

 

[Staarih]

I know, but it's possible we at least get a CGI trailer. But it's better not to get our hopes up.

On another note, who would be your 2nd pick for a gen 8 rep if Zacian/Zamazenta aren't chosen? I'm absolutely on board with Dragapult the most.

I'd say Toxtricity, not only because I feel he's pretty likely (yes, still), but I think he has a lot of potential with his musical and poison abilities.

Though I'd gladly welcome any weird, original and unconvential Pokemon as well. Zacian/Zamazenta I feel would already be a step towards that for standing on four legs alone.

 

[Pokelego999]

I know, but it's possible we at least get a CGI trailer. But it's better not to get our hopes up.

On another note, who would be your 2nd pick for a gen 8 rep if Zacian/Zamazenta aren't chosen? I'm absolutely on board with Dragapult the most.

Cinderace, Rillaboom, Obstagoon, Dragapult, or Toxtricity, as my main ones.

 

[Delzethin]

On another note, who would be your 2nd pick for a gen 8 rep if Zacian/Zamazenta aren't chosen? I'm absolutely on board with Dragapult the most.

I suppose I'd be okay with something like Rillaboom, Cinderace, or even a more out there pick like Corviknight, as long as the moveset was interesting and did something new. Would pale in comparison, though.

The further things go, the more I tend to develop narrow standards for my personal preferences. Which bites me in the aft end more often than not...

 

[Cosmic77]

Overall, I'd say speculating Gen 8's options has been very similar to Gen 7.

There's a lot of Pokémon who could work, but you have quite a few that don't seem interesting (Incineroar), and a few who don't feel well-suited for a fast-paced fighting game like Smash (Mimikyu).

 

[LukeRNG]

Overall, I'd say speculating Gen 8's options has been very similar to Gen 7.

There's a lot of Pokémon who could work, but you have quite a few that don't seem interesting (Incineroar), and a few who don't feel well-suited for a fast-paced fighting game like Smash (Mimikyu).

And like last time, the majority who don't care about the pokemon character immediately fall on a starter. I've seen a few people looking outside of the starters, namely for Urshifu & Toxtricity, so that's nice. Though it's mostly because people claim Toxtricity to be the Lucario of this gen (understandable but flawed logic) or that Urshifu works better to sell the SwSh expansion pass. While I've got nothing against Urshifu, tell me 1 time where a character (who is exclusive to dlc content from it's series) was ever picked instead of someone from base game. Not even the dlc characters from Arms got any love as spirits.

 

[Cosmic77]

And like last time, the majority who don't care abut the pokemon character immediately fall on a starter. I've seen a few people looking outside of the starters, namely for Urshifu & Toxtricity, so that's nice. Though it's mostly because people claim Toxtricity to be the Lucario of this gen (understandable but flawed logic) or that Urshifu works better to sell the dlc. While I've got nothing against Urshifu, tell me 1 time where a character (who is exclusive to dlc content from it's series) was ever picked instead of someone from base game. Not even the dlc characters from Arms got any love as spirits.

Urshifu has a few fans, but yeah, seems like most people who predict it to be our Pokémon rep are doing the bare minimum. "What Pokémon are they promoting right now? Urshifu? That's probably who we're getting."

No input on what the moveset would be, no explanation on why they'd suddenly put such a heavy emphasis on DLC when they've never done so before, no theories on why Sakurai would want Urshifu; it's literally just, "They want to promote the DLC".

 

[Pokelego999]

Urshifu has a few fans, but yeah, seems like most people who predict it to be our Pokémon rep are doing the bare minimum. "What Pokémon are they promoting right now? Urshifu? That's probably who we're getting."

No input on what the moveset would be, no explanation on why they'd suddenly put such a heavy emphasis on DLC when they've never done so before, no theories on why Sakurai would want Urshifu; it's literally just, "They want to promote the DLC".

That's why Urshifu to me is kinda flawed. It dosen't make much sense.

 

[LukeRNG]

That's why Urshifu to me is kinda flawed. It dosen't make much sense.

And I've seen some people suggest a stance change as it's gimmick even though it doesn't work like that. The 2 forms are completely seperate from eachother outside of sharing the same species. The same also applies for Toxtricity (though I think they'd make easier skins of eachother compared to Urshifu since between Amped & Low Key forms they don't get exclusive signature moves).

 

[fogbadge]

And I've seen some people suggest a stance change as it's gimmick even though it doesn't work like that. The 2 forms are completely seperate from eachother outside of sharing the same species. The same also applies for Toxtricity (though I think they'd make easier skins of eachother compared to Urshifu since between Amped & Low Key forms they don't get exclusive signature moves).

well wouldnt be the first time they changed how something is supposed to work

 

[Delzethin]

Overall, I'd say speculating Gen 8's options has been very similar to Gen 7.

There's a lot of Pokémon who could work, but you have quite a few that don't seem interesting (Incineroar), and a few who don't feel well-suited for a fast-paced fighting game like Smash (Mimikyu).

Yeah, there's a wide selection to look at, a handful of prominent mons worth keeping a close eye on...and speculation is only looking at a select few and not necessarily for the right reasons.

Exhibit A:

And like last time, the majority who don't care about the pokemon character immediately fall on a starter. I've seen a few people looking outside of the starters, namely for Urshifu & Toxtricity, so that's nice. Though it's mostly because people claim Toxtricity to be the Lucario of this gen (understandable but flawed logic) or that Urshifu works better to sell the SwSh expansion pass. While I've got nothing against Urshifu, tell me 1 time where a character (who is exclusive to dlc content from it's series) was ever picked instead of someone from base game. Not even the dlc characters from Arms got any love as spirits.

Hit it right on the head. We have talk focusing almost exclusively on the starters out of some believing only they have any real chance, with some extra via Toxtricity because it's popular to talk about or Urshifu out of assuming it'd be a "promotional" pick.

Which is the core problem here: When we get big franchises like Pokémon that are both probable to get a newcomer and have multiple viable options for one, discourse over which are most likely to happen gets dragged around by people outside the franchise's own fanbase. I've actually seen a lot of variety from dedicated Pokémon fans (shout out to Joe Merrick himself being interested in Zacian), but the loudest voices in Smash speculation are coming from non-fans jumping to conclusions about stuff they're uninformed on.

And that's how we get all of these assumptions flying around. Rillaboom has to happen to complete a set of fully evolved starters (even though newcomers aren't chosen to fill quotas). Or it has to be Cinderace because it's going to be a star in the anime (even though it'll be the team ace of the secondary protagonist, not to mention Ash's team MVP in Gen 7 didn't get in). Or Toxtricity, because its popularity means it must be this generation's Lucario (even though it hasn't been highlighted nearly as often as previous examples and we didn't even know the Toxel line existed until the leaks two weeks before release). Or Urshifu must be the obvious choice to advertise the DLC (even though we're long past Isle of Armor, there're questions over whether it could actually be unique, and the entire argument misinterprets the idea of "promotional" characters).

Look, no offense to anyone who legitimately wants any of them--I can't fault anyone for supporting a character they genuinely like. But so damn much of this talk has revolved around mistaken details that are just taken at face value without question! And then we're stuck over here being almost completely ignored because we don't line up with the assumptions.

It's frustrating.

And I've seen some people suggest a stance change as it's gimmick even though it doesn't work like that. The 2 forms are completely seperate from eachother outside of sharing the same species. The same also applies for Toxtricity (though I think they'd make easier skins of eachother compared to Urshifu since between Amped & Low Key forms they don't get exclusive signature moves).

And that's another thing! It feels like the stance change idea is thrown on as an afterthought by people who don't know the canon! And it's just...accepted, without doublechecking if it'd actually make sense. Sure, we've seen some creative liberties before, but when you're building your entire concept around swapping between two forms when the character canonically picks one fighting style and specializes in it it's...

Well, it feels like they're trying to cram a pre-built mechanic onto a character rather than learning about the character and then finding a mechanic or thematic idea that fits.

 

[fogbadge]

anyone here this rumor of two horse legends being in the crown tundra?

 

[Pokelego999]

anyone here this rumor of two horse legends being in the crown tundra?

Yeah they found them within the code of SWSH iirc. They think it'll be a fusion thing with Calyrex like what happened with Necrozma and Kyurem.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah they found them within the code of SWSH iirc. They think it'll be a fusion thing with Calyrex like what happened with Necrozma and Kyurem.

i hope theyre based on some of our local myths, we got some weeeeeeeeeeird horses

 

[zacian]

i hope theyre based on some of our local myths, we got some weeeeeeeeeeird horses

What kinda horses do you got?

 

[Cosmic77]

They're making plushies of Calyrex and the Galarian Kanto birds.

I mean, they're really cool, but...

When will we get plushies of the Hero of Many Battles forms?

 

[fogbadge]

What kinda horses do you got?

well there's the kelpie a malevolent shape shifting water spirit that often takes the form of a horse. and then theres the similar but more deadly each-uisge. then of course there's all the ones that can be found in other parts of the world.

 

[LukeRNG]

I reckon the amiibo for Zacian & Zamazenta would look roughly like this:

Btw these are from the new MH game coming to switch.

 

[Cosmic77]

I reckon the amiibo for Zacian & Zamazenta would look something like this:

Btw this is the main monster from the new MH game coming to switch.

Probably. There's no way they'd be able to make an amiibo where all four feet are attached to the base.

Well, I guess they could. It would just look ridiculous standing next to any other amiibo.

 

[zacian]

maybe if they make the base as big as detective pikachu’s they can fit all four legs

it’s still gonna stand out next to other amiibo tho

 

[fogbadge]

Well, I guess they could. It would just look ridiculous standing next to any other amiibo.

look at all the amiibo ive got standing next to each other, i really dont think thatd be a problem

 

[Staarih]

I reckon a dynamic pose with the doggo('s) standing on their two hind legs could prevent problems regarding space for standing on all four (and would also be cool), though surely an amiibo could be made with any pose at all really, with the help of additional elements like with Ridley, Joker etc if needed.

 

[Perkilator]

look at all the amiibo ive got standing next to each other, i really dont think thatd be a problem

Do any of your amiibo stand an all fours and take up so much space they go beyond the stand?

No?

Then don't say it wouldn't be a problem when it would be when it comes to an all-round standing amiibo.

 

[fogbadge]

Do any of your amiibo stand an all fours and take up so much space they go beyond the stand?

No?

Then don't say it wouldn't be a problem when it would be when it comes to an all-round standing amiibo.

charizards wings go over his stand and the guardian barely fits on his stand. just cause four legs hasnt happened yet doesnt mean there hasnt been similar problems

 

[fogbadge]

wait howd this post end up here?

 

[Cosmic77]

The only pose I can think of that might be able to fit all four legs on the base without greatly shrinking Zacian or Zamazenta is something like Palamute's — the standard "sitting dog" pose.

Aside from that, I think most action poses would require something like Wolf Link, Bayo, or Magnamalo. The legs would go beyond the base, but there would be support stands (preferably decorated ones) to anchor Zacian or Zamazenta.

 

[Delzethin]

I do think we'd be getting more dynamic-looking poses, if only because Ultimate has gone for those so far. Though how they'd handle the amiibo would depend on if they were adapting a leaping pose:

Or something grounded and on all fours:

If the former, they'd need a built-in stand to keep the figures in place. Recent Smash amiibo that have required stands have found something thematically appropriate to use, so what would work here?

And how would the amiibo be handled if we did get a tag team concept? Would they be able to pull off two different figures when it can't be done for Byleth for some unknown reason?

 

[Cosmic77]

And how would the amiibo be handled if we did get a tag team concept? Would they be able to pull off two different figures when it can't be done for Byleth for some unknown reason?

Depends on how they're handled.

If they're handled like ICs or Rosalina and they both fight together, then they'd probably be more inclined to make one amiibo and settle for an awkwardly small size. If they're treated like PT and have their own moves and attacks, then they'll probably be treated as separate fighters. In that case, they'd probably make two amiibo.

 

[LukeRNG]

I do think we'd be getting more dynamic-looking poses, if only because Ultimate has gone for those so far. Though how they'd handle the amiibo would depend on if they were adapting a leaping pose:

Or something grounded and on all fours:

If the former, they'd need a built-in stand to keep the figures in place. Recent Smash amiibo that have required stands have found something thematically appropriate to use, so what would work here?

And how would the amiibo be handled if we did get a tag team concept? Would they be able to pull off two different figures when it can't be done for Byleth for some unknown reason?

For simplicity's sake i'd say a rock that resembles a cliff.

Actually something like this for Zacian could look great (of course with the sword being reasonably short & overall body being on size with Bowser's Super Mario amiibo):



Now that I thought about it, I think for our best chances to join is in early next year as fighter #8. Because I somehow feel that Zacian/Zamazenta would be odd to show off after knowing about next year's pokemon game (most likely gen 4 remakes). So I guess let's hope there's no announcement at The Game Awards.
Fighter #9 screams 3rd party June announcement. And to me fighter #10 feels too late for a gen 8 rep.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think F8 and F9 would be their best chance. F8 would probably be released in January or February, and F9 could be May or June (possibly another guessing game from a March Mini?). I don't think it's game over if they aren't revealed by then though.

Assuming the next Pokémon games are Gen 4 remakes, most of the content they could use to promote those games already exist in Smash. Remakes rarely get anything notable, and I'd imagine they were never really worried in the first place about pushing Sakurai to rush and make the Pokémon character come out as soon as possible. Heck, Incineroar was revealed the same month Let's Go launched and four months before Gen 8 debuted. The 3DS was essentially dead by then, so I don't even know if Incineroar truly had any impact on SuMo's sales.

We'll just have to see how things play out. Obviously our chances decrease with each new character, but everyone else is in that same boat.

 

[Delzethin]

Now that I thought about it, I think for our best chances to join is in early next year as fighter #8. Because I somehow feel that Zacian/Zamazenta would be odd to show off after knowing about next year's pokemon game (most likely gen 4 remakes). So I guess let's hope there's no announcement at The Game Awards.
Fighter #9 screams 3rd party June announcement. And to me fighter #10 feels too late for a gen 8 rep.

I think Fighter #9 and beyond is our most likely window of opportunity. The rough timeframe I think we're looking at now is:

#8: Released in late January 2021, around when Byleth was this year
#9: May 2021 (Revealed in a spring Direct?)
#10: August/September 2021 (Revealed at E3?)
#11: December 2021/January 2022

Fighter #8 strikes me as potentially covering the niche Banjo did in Season 1: a character who has been highly requested by Smash fans for a while now and ties up a loose end of sorts. Someone like Geno or Bandana Dee or Rex or...you get the idea. Then things will start winding down hype-wise, covering picks that are less of headliners and more about covering interesting niches the other characters in Season 2 haven't. A Pokémon from a still-relevant generation would fit into that, along with still being a pretty big deal with how well Sword & Shield have sold and how well-received most of Gen 8's new mons have been.

Assuming the next Pokémon games are Gen 4 remakes, most of the content they could use to promote those games already exist in Smash. Remakes rarely get anything notable, and I'd imagine they were never really worried in the first place about pushing Sakurai to rush and make the Pokémon character come out as soon as possible. Heck, Incineroar was revealed the same month Let's Go launched and four months before Gen 8 debuted. The 3DS was essentially dead by then, so I don't even know if Incineroar truly had any impact on SuMo's sales.

We'll just have to see how things play out. Obviously our chances decrease with each new character, but everyone else is in that same boat.

That's another good point. Ultimate's base game pulled all of its Gen 7 content from SuMo (which were 2 years old by the time of its release), with nothing from USUM (aside from one Pokémon Trainer palette that was probably added late) or LGPE (until the post-release Spirit Event). We've also seen remakes of older games have little to no impact on newcomer choices through Smash history, with the only exception being PT using designs from the then semi-recent FRLG (and got in alongside a Gen 4 newcomer, not in place of one).

Considering we're probably looking at Sinnoh remakes next year, I don't see them precluding a Gen 8 newcomer. Especially since Gen 4's biggest mon is already in Smash.

 

[LukeRNG]

Just realized next week will be busy for pokemon: the anime will start the Darkest Day Arc & Crown Tundra comes out, roughly around the same time as well.

 

[fogbadge]

Just realized next week will be busy for pokemon: the anime will start the Darkest Day Arc & Crown Tundra comes out, roughly around the same time as well.

just 9 days to go

 

[Perkilator]

Just realized next week will be busy for pokemon: the anime will start the Darkest Day Arc & Crown Tundra comes out, roughly around the same time as well.

Speaking of Crown Tundra:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[zacian]

I can’t wait to put the Ball Guy head over the Creeper Mii costume

 

[fogbadge]

I can’t wait to put the Ball Guy head over the Creeper Mii costume

i take you mean if theres a ball guy mii costume

edit: hey guys check this

one slight error but oh well

 

[Staarih]

Next Friday the anime will finally debut Zacian and Zamazenta:

ポケットモンスター｜テレビ東京アニメ公式

ポケットモンスターのエピソードページ。“ポケモンマスター”という見果てぬ夢を追い、風の吹くまま、気の向くまま、冒険を続けるサトシとピカチュウ。　ポケットモンスターのテレビ東京アニメ公式サイトです。最新情報やストーリー、キャラクター紹介や次回予告などを掲載しています。

www.tv-tokyo.co.jp

Spoiler

And a small clip after the preview implies Zacian is with Ash and Zamazenta is with Goh.
As if there was any doubt really haha. Does not necessarily mean captures, of course.

 

[Delzethin]

On the note of Mii costumes...an interesting idea came to mind a while back. If we get a playable Gen 8 mon that isn't a starter, we could see see the likenesses of all three included in costume form:

Rillaboom: Swordfighter (with a drumstick as the "sword")
Cinderace: Brawler
Inteleon: Gunner (with a pointing finger as the "gun", Cuphead-style)

Wouldn't be deluxe costumes, just silly mascot suit-looking things that resembled them and still had the Miis' faces visible, but it'd still be a way to include them. Though I don't know whether TPC would sign off on it.

 

[zacian]

As someone who tries to match the Poké Ball with a Pokémon’s color scheme, this is rad

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Pokelego999]

As someone who tries to match the Poké Ball with a Pokémon’s color scheme, this is rad

There was a problem fetching the tweet

They make it too easy nowadays.
sigh I miss the old days.