The King of Klones (the Ganon character design thread)

[Jotari]

The whole "my moves beat out everybody else's" thing is already on Little Mac, and he's enough of a noob character already. Unless he had something ridiculous to balance it out like having basically no recovery (kinda awkward with the bat powers and all) then there's not a lot of wiggle room here.

My moves beat out everybody else, but I'm having a hard time catching you and you'll have a hard time killing me. Which actually looking at it outside of my head makes it sound like he'd be even more annoying to fight than Little Mac. Still though what I'm proposing would make him sufficiently different enough from Little Mac. If he has a good roll (probably a warpping role like Mewtwo) and some other defensive options he could be punish based making him an odd hybrid of Dedede, Little Mac and Ganondorf.

 

[PhantomShab]

OK, since my thread got moved here and then immediately locked, I figured I'd point something out here.
http://smashboards.com/threads/so.416717/#post-20093358

The response I was given was a fake quote from a thread on Gamefaqs that didn't even have a source. Is there an actual statement from Sakurai about not wanting to "alienate" Ganondorf players?

 

[Porygon2]

The only thing he has that would be suitable for a Final Smash is really just Beast Ganon. Unless you want something generic like Triforce Slash....

Not so sure about that. How about a Super Sonic-esque Phantom Ganon transformation? How about summoning Gohma, Stallord or the Helmaroc King? How about trapping enemies in the twilight realm, or a princess-capturing crystal?

Never underestimate pointless fanboy speculation.

 

[Jotari]

For his final smash he turns in to Melee Ganondorf.

 

[MagiusNecros]

OK, since my thread got moved here and then immediately locked, I figured I'd point something out here.
http://smashboards.com/threads/so.416717/#post-20093358

The response I was given was a fake quote from a thread on Gamefaqs that didn't even have a source. Is there an actual statement from Sakurai about not wanting to "alienate" Ganondorf players?

There is no statement. It was made up by overzealous Melee Dorf fans.

That quote is fabricated and never took place. The fact is Sakurai didn't want to disappoint people who were used to his poor rendition of Ganondorf and appealed to those who were "fine" with how he is now.

If anything Ganon needed a rework like how Bowser got.

 

[PhantomShab]

There is no statement. It was made up by overzealous Melee Dorf fans.

That quote is fabricated and never took place. The fact is Sakurai didn't want to disappoint people who were used to his poor rendition of Ganondorf and appealed to those who were "fine" with how he is now.

If anything Ganon needed a rework like how Bowser got.

Also meaning my thread was given a false answer and wrongfully locked. I wonder if the guy who linked me the Gamefaqs thread actually read through it himself.

So people are just making it up when they bring up the "doesn't want to alienate" argument, as I suspected.

 

[Codaption]

Whether the quote is made up I couldn't say, but the arguement isn't really all that unreasonable when you look at the gradual changes other clones have gotten- slow enough to not screw people up too badly (with the exception of Falco reflector, but there was no real way to make that gradual and it certainly did cause a bit of an outcry), but fast enough to see that changes are being made. It's not the best, sure, but it at least shows that people have a basis for their reasoning on this.

I'd also reiterate my point about the changes to Bowser and Pit not being all that major, but @ LancerStaff pretty much shut me down there.

 

[Frostwraith]

Being a Ganondorf fan and enjoying playing as Ganondorf in Smash, it's kind of hard to me to pick a side: on one hand, keeping Ganondorf the same will grant the same enjoyment from previous Smash games. On an overall outlook at things, a lot of the base concepts of Ganondorf's design are fitting with the character, semi-clone issues aside.

On the other hand, more Zelda inspired moves added would make me really satisfied as a fan of the series and the character himself.

That's why I decided to do a very thorough and in-depth analysis on Ganondorf. The circumstances of his inclusion back in Melee, the changes in Brawl and other aspects of the character in Smash Bros. and how they relate to source material.

It's a very long article, but I try to remain neutral in the subject, avoid any biases, but at the same time providing my own stance on the subject.

This article was written for Source Gaming, a blog about Smash by a group of Smash fans. Make sure to check it out: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/

 

[Jotari]

Being a Ganondorf fan and enjoying playing as Ganondorf in Smash, it's kind of hard to me to pick a side: on one hand, keeping Ganondorf the same will grant the same enjoyment from previous Smash games. On an overall outlook at things, a lot of the base concepts of Ganondorf's design are fitting with the character, semi-clone issues aside.

On the other hand, more Zelda inspired moves added would make me really satisfied as a fan of the series and the character himself.

That's why I decided to do a very thorough and in-depth analysis on Ganondorf. The circumstances of his inclusion back in Melee, the changes in Brawl and other aspects of the character in Smash Bros. and how they relate to source material.

It's a very long article, but I try to remain neutral in the subject, avoid any biases, but at the same time providing my own stance on the subject.

This article was written for Source Gaming, a blog about Smash by a group of Smash fans. Make sure to check it out: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/

Great article. I think I'll bookmark it so I can link it to people in the future.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I concur excellent article.

 

[Burruni]

Being a Ganondorf fan and enjoying playing as Ganondorf in Smash, it's kind of hard to me to pick a side: on one hand, keeping Ganondorf the same will grant the same enjoyment from previous Smash games. On an overall outlook at things, a lot of the base concepts of Ganondorf's design are fitting with the character, semi-clone issues aside.

On the other hand, more Zelda inspired moves added would make me really satisfied as a fan of the series and the character himself.

That's why I decided to do a very thorough and in-depth analysis on Ganondorf. The circumstances of his inclusion back in Melee, the changes in Brawl and other aspects of the character in Smash Bros. and how they relate to source material.

It's a very long article, but I try to remain neutral in the subject, avoid any biases, but at the same time providing my own stance on the subject.

This article was written for Source Gaming, a blog about Smash by a group of Smash fans. Make sure to check it out: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/

Thank you for finally putting into words what I've been trying to say about Falcondorf.

While most of his moves were taken out of Falcon originally, he feels exactly like Ganondorf should.

Now let's get Wizpig Ganon as his own character

 

[MagiusNecros]

Do it.

 

[LancerStaff]

Not sure if Sakurai actually ever said the "not wanting to alienate fans" thing, but it lines up with what Sakurai has done so far. Most characters have not received major functional changes since their inclusion. Mario got FLUDD but that's largely for distancing him from Luigi. Link, even though he's technically a different character, has remained largely the same. Zelda and Shiek were for balancing them after they were separated, similar with Samus and ZSS and then Zard. Besides Pit and Bowser, the only major revamps have been clones. Not even Mewtwo, widely regarded as an underwhelming design with no real fans unlike Falcondorf, had any real changes besides his weight... Which wasn't received well.

 

[Burruni]

Not sure if Sakurai actually ever said the "not wanting to alienate fans" thing, but it lines up with what Sakurai has done so far. Most characters have not received major functional changes since their inclusion. Mario got FLUDD but that's largely for distancing him from Luigi. Link, even though he's technically a different character, has remained largely the same. Zelda and Shiek were for balancing them after they were separated, similar with Samus and ZSS and then Zard. Besides Pit and Bowser, the only major revamps have been clones. Not even Mewtwo, widely regarded as an underwhelming design with no real fans unlike Falcondorf, had any real changes besides his weight... Which wasn't received well.

I can't remember the exact interview, but I have seen that line from Sakurai. It was referring to some of the characters in the development to Brawl from their Melee selves.

But, yes, we've seen very minor changes to character's movesets as a whole.

got a new dash attack, f-smash, and f-air as well as gaining his iconic traction and floatier jump.
's B was changed to side B with the addition of Bow.
's Down-B, Jab combo, and I think a few other moves were changed.
's Side B being changed to the choke
being the "overhaul" to special attack properties, different jab, throws, and aerials from . The biggest jump, from one of the most similar clones.
's change to Fludd while Mario Tornado became slightly nerfed into his D-Air
gained a new N-Air because the parachute became part of the Up+B
's Koopa Klaw being turned into the Flying Press
's F-Smash, F-tilt, Dash Attack, and general animations updated. Not nearly the overhaul the visuals make you think.
New Final smash (duh)
's Side B changed to gordo toss. New Final Smash
New final smash
New Final Smash
's Up B being changed to Winged Pikmin
Up B, Side B, and Down B changed. New Final Smash The most change to a single character's specials.
has a new F-Smash and U-Smash
gained new Down B's in the loss of transformation
gained a new Up B, Dash Attack, F-Smash.
has a new D-Air and had his moveset tweaked a bit to be a better rush-down Semi-clone to .


We often see only a normal attack or two, a smash, or a single special being changed for a character in the gap for a character ( and being the biggest jumps).

 

[Hexaped]

But Burruni, Bowser's B-Air, D-Air, and N-Air were also changed. That's six new moves, which is almost half of all his A moves.The D-Air has a simlar animation but a totally new function. His neutral A combo change is a more divisive one. But the point is, Bowser got a big change. Not ginormous, but big.

 

[Jotari]

I can't remember the exact interview, but I have seen that line from Sakurai. It was referring to some of the characters in the development to Brawl from their Melee selves.

But, yes, we've seen very minor changes to character's movesets as a whole.

got a new dash attack, f-smash, and f-air as well as gaining his iconic traction and floatier jump.
's B was changed to side B with the addition of Bow.
's Down-B, Jab combo, and I think a few other moves were changed.
's Side B being changed to the choke
being the "overhaul" to special attack properties, different jab, throws, and aerials from . The biggest jump, from one of the most similar clones.
's change to Fludd while Mario Tornado became slightly nerfed into his D-Air
gained a new N-Air because the parachute became part of the Up+B
's Koopa Klaw being turned into the Flying Press
's F-Smash, F-tilt, Dash Attack, and general animations updated. Not nearly the overhaul the visuals make you think.
New Final smash (duh)
's Side B changed to gordo toss. New Final Smash
New final smash
New Final Smash
's Up B being changed to Winged Pikmin
Up B, Side B, and Down B changed. New Final Smash The most change to a single character's specials.
has a new F-Smash and U-Smash
gained new Down B's in the loss of transformation
gained a new Up B, Dash Attack, F-Smash.
has a new D-Air and had his moveset tweaked a bit to be a better rush-down Semi-clone to .


We often see only a normal attack or two, a smash, or a single special being changed for a character in the gap for a character ( and being the biggest jumps).

The angle of Marth's neutral B was also changed to more reflect his attacks in game which in turn helped differenciae him from Roy more (despite Roy not even being in Brawl). I'd also say Ganondorf got a new Up Smash and Down tilt. The other moves that got animation changes I can see being considered the same moves, but those changed in a way that I at least used them differently.

 

[Burruni]

But Burruni, Bowser's B-Air, D-Air, and N-Air were also changed. That's six new moves, which is almost half of all his A moves.The D-Air has a simlar animation but a totally new function. His neutral A combo change is a more divisive one. But the point is, Bowser got a big change. Not ginormous, but big.

I admittedly forgot about the B-Air drop kick, but didn't know his N-air and D-Air got changed.

The angle of Marth's neutral B was also changed to more reflect his attacks in game which in turn helped differenciae him from Roy more (despite Roy not even being in Brawl). I'd also say Ganondorf got a new Up Smash and Down tilt. The other moves that got animation changes I can see being considered the same moves, but those changed in a way that I at least used them differently.

I forgot Dorf's up smash got changed in Brawl. Down-Tilt, however.... I'd not agree. The way the kick came out was slightly changed but it was largely kept the same.

My point still stands that... we VERY rarely see any large-scale changes on a character, and I certainly don't see something like PM's Ganondorf to come out of Smash 5, so to speak.

 

[Quillion]

@ LiteralGrill : Can you put @ Frostwraith 's article on the front page?

 

[Jotari]

I admittedly forgot about the B-Air drop kick, but didn't know his N-air and D-Air got changed.



I forgot Dorf's up smash got changed in Brawl. Down-Tilt, however.... I'd not agree. The way the kick came out was slightly changed but it was largely kept the same.

My point still stands that... we VERY rarely see any large-scale changes on a character, and I certainly don't see something like PM's Ganondorf to come out of Smash 5, so to speak.

I suppose the fact that it came out quicker in Melee is the main gameplay advantage but the speed of most of the casts attacks was changed so I guess I would consider it the same attack. Ganondorf also got an additional punch on Dark Dive to more differentiate him from Falcon. Which is again a minor change supporting what you're talking about. I'm just fond of listing things.

 

[Quillion]

I think the difference between this and other changes is that there's no heavy demand for some other characters to be changed, so there's no reason to. But things is; demand for moveset changes have been answered before:

• I think everyone who played Uprising wanted Pit's moveset to be revamped to include other weapons because a lot of people loved the variety that the weapons had and wanted to see them in Smash (here's one example). Sure enough, that demand was answered: he got an Arm and Orbitars as well as animation revamps for several of his bow moves.
• As an example with no "canon" complaints: pretty much NO ONE liked Mario's tornado being replaced with FLUDD and moved to dair. Not only is FLUDD very situational, it's just lame to look at. So re-enter Dr. Mario, who actually attracts quite a bit of fans entirely because he has the special Tornado, and as a bonus, due to the universal buff to spinning specials, it's considered one of his best moves.

And again, I've met some people like myself who prefer the original Bowser over the too-anthropomorphic portrayal we have now, so I'm actually hoping Dry Bowser comes in and brings back the old moveset. This would be in line with Sakurai's assumed refusal to not alienate people since at least Dry Bowser is some form of Bowser.

 

[Jotari]

When new games come out they are going to encorporate elements of them into the moveset. Zelda's Phantom, Link's Gale Boomerang and FLUDD which you even pointed out people don't like prove it. So I think Pit was going to get elements of Uprising regardless of how much demand there was for it. Especially since Sakurai directed it. I don't think there was even any demand for it. Most just assumed it was happening and were completely okay with it.

 

[LiteralGrill]

@ LiteralGrill : Can you put @ Frostwraith 's article on the front page?

I'd have to ask the editors on it, I can see though!

 

[Frostwraith]

Despite Bowser and Pit's changes this time, their movesets remain overall the same.

In some cases, it's mostly animation revamps and a few changes in properties to buff some of his weak points. In fact, Bowser's changes this time are somewhat on the same level as what Ganondorf got from Melee to Brawl. Interesting to note is when transforming into Giga Bowser, he reverts to his old more beast-like Smash self.

@ Quillion

Pit didn't get any revamp on the neutral moves, actually. Except the forward aerial.

The specials except neutral B all got an overhaul, but still have some similarities to the previous moves. Guardian Orbitars are a reflector just like the Mirror Shield, the sole differences being that they reflect on both sides and are breakable by physical attacks.

The side special changed from a multi-hit attack to a strong upwards launching move with super armor. It still does deflect projectiles and has Pit rush forward like Angel Ring.

Finally, the up special serves the same purpose. Just has less control than before.

 

[MagiusNecros]

When new games come out they are going to encorporate elements of them into the moveset. Zelda's Phantom, Link's Gale Boomerang and FLUDD which you even pointed out people don't like prove it. So I think Pit was going to get elements of Uprising regardless of how much demand there was for it. Especially since Sakurai directed it. I don't think there was even any demand for it. Most just assumed it was happening and were completely okay with it.

Man I wish we got some DEMISE influence in Dorf.

Tecmo Koei got it down fine.

They even threw in Beast Ganon.

Apparently the best they could do with Skyward Sword was to throw in a Ditzy Ghirahim assist. That no one will ever see ever.

Despite Bowser and Pit's changes this time, their movesets remain overall the same.

In some cases, it's mostly animation revamps and a few changes in properties to buff some of his weak points. In fact, Bowser's changes this time are somewhat on the same level as what Ganondorf got from Melee to Brawl. Interesting to note is when transforming into Giga Bowser, he reverts to his old more beast-like Smash self.

They literally copied over Giga Bowser from Brawl. Hence why all the physics are all ****ed up.

 

[LancerStaff]

Despite Bowser and Pit's changes this time, their movesets remain overall the same.

In some cases, it's mostly animation revamps and a few changes in properties to buff some of his weak points. In fact, Bowser's changes this time are somewhat on the same level as what Ganondorf got from Melee to Brawl. Interesting to note is when transforming into Giga Bowser, he reverts to his old more beast-like Smash self.

@ Quillion

Pit didn't get any revamp on the neutral moves, actually. Except the forward aerial.

The specials except neutral B all got an overhaul, but still have some similarities to the previous moves. Guardian Orbitars are a reflector just like the Mirror Shield, the sole differences being that they reflect on both sides and are breakable by physical attacks.

The side special changed from a multi-hit attack to a strong upwards launching move with super armor. It still does deflect projectiles and has Pit rush forward like Angel Ring.

Finally, the up special serves the same purpose. Just has less control than before.

Fair, Bair, Utilt, Ftilt, and even his Nspecial function completely differently and have completely new animations. Dtilt, jab, Dsmash, Fsmash, and Usmash have completely different animations, namely to buff Pit's range to be equal to that of Marth's instead of being equal to 1.0.0 MK's.

Angel Ring is for closing the gap while reflecting projectiles. Upperdash Arm is a punish move and a last resort kill move. Besides interactions with projectiles (which Upperdash generally doesn't want to do) and moving forward, they're completely different moves. Wings of Icarus were more then just being controllable, the move was highly versatile. WoI had tech, legitimate tech and not silly glitches, like wingdashing and platform canceling and there's tricks like flying forward and Bairing. Power of flight is a finicky and linear recovery. A great one, but outside of recovering it's useless.

Not even Pit's core playstyle remained. In Brawl he was a campy little thing who basically ran away indefinitely, spammed arrows, and could often run the clock out. Smash 4 Pit is more like Brawl Marth without the KO power but other tricks and gimmicks (one of the best projectiles in the game namely) to make up for it.

 

[Quillion]

Despite Bowser and Pit's changes this time, their movesets remain overall the same.

In some cases, it's mostly animation revamps and a few changes in properties to buff some of his weak points. In fact, Bowser's changes this time are somewhat on the same level as what Ganondorf got from Melee to Brawl. Interesting to note is when transforming into Giga Bowser, he reverts to his old more beast-like Smash self.

@ Quillion

Pit didn't get any revamp on the neutral moves, actually. Except the forward aerial.

The specials except neutral B all got an overhaul, but still have some similarities to the previous moves. Guardian Orbitars are a reflector just like the Mirror Shield, the sole differences being that they reflect on both sides and are breakable by physical attacks.

The side special changed from a multi-hit attack to a strong upwards launching move with super armor. It still does deflect projectiles and has Pit rush forward like Angel Ring.

Finally, the up special serves the same purpose. Just has less control than before.

You could change some of Ganondorf's moves while have his playstyle remain mostly the same. Just would give him more range.

• F-smash: a lunging slash with his longsword.
• D-smash: slashes on both sides dual swords.
• U-smash: slash with trident parallel to the Z-axis (keeps the hitbox thin while keeping the same trajectory as the current one)
• Fair: A slightly sluggish slash with longsword.
• Bair: A strike with the hilt of the longsword.
• Uair: Attacks in a half-moon arc above with the trident.

It's not a perfect solution even for me, but that's the minimum I'd like to see (hell; I'm not giving up hope for it to be revamped as a free update now). I could accept some level of "slight change", but I really don't think they did enough (we get a different Dark Dive grab, yay).

 

[Jotari]

Man I wish we got some DEMISE influence in Dorf.

Tecmo Koei got it down fine.

They even threw in Beast Ganon.

Apparently the best they could do with Skyward Sword was to throw in a Ditzy Ghirahim assist. That no one will ever see ever.

I'm kind of hoping they give him Demise's Sword and a more natural looking animation for Warlock Blade in the next game. Not only is it a cooler looking weapon but I feel like it should be considered more iconic in the series overall despite only having appeared in one game so far.

You could change some of Ganondorf's moves while have his playstyle remain mostly the same. Just would give him more range.

• F-smash: a lunging slash with his longsword.
• D-smash: slashes on both sides dual swords.
• U-smash: slash with trident parallel to the Z-axis (keeps the hitbox thin while keeping the same trajectory as the current one)
• Fair: A slightly sluggish slash with longsword.
• Bair: A strike with the hilt of the longsword.
• Uair: Attacks in a half-moon arc above with the trident.

It's not a perfect solution even for me, but that's the minimum I'd like to see (hell; I'm not giving up hope for it to be revamped as a free update now). I could accept some level of "slight change", but I really don't think they did enough (we get a different Dark Dive grab, yay).

The problem with giving him weapons for animation changes is that it would fundamentally change his moveset by giving him more range. Ganondorf is the low range hard hitter while Ike is the high range hard hitter. Giving him range would change him from a punish heavy hard hitter to an opportunistic spacer. Which isn't a bad moveset but it is pretty much Ike. Not changing the hitbox ratios widely would just make the animations really awkward for the most part. At least as I envision them. Maybe they could work around it but in my mind it just looks weak. Except your suggestion for his Bair and Uair. His Fair also shouldn't change since its already a move that references his series.

 

[Codaption]

Being a Ganondorf fan and enjoying playing as Ganondorf in Smash, it's kind of hard to me to pick a side: on one hand, keeping Ganondorf the same will grant the same enjoyment from previous Smash games. On an overall outlook at things, a lot of the base concepts of Ganondorf's design are fitting with the character, semi-clone issues aside.

On the other hand, more Zelda inspired moves added would make me really satisfied as a fan of the series and the character himself.

That's why I decided to do a very thorough and in-depth analysis on Ganondorf. The circumstances of his inclusion back in Melee, the changes in Brawl and other aspects of the character in Smash Bros. and how they relate to source material.

It's a very long article, but I try to remain neutral in the subject, avoid any biases, but at the same time providing my own stance on the subject.

This article was written for Source Gaming, a blog about Smash by a group of Smash fans. Make sure to check it out: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/07/ganondorf-smash-bros/

A very nicely written article, glad I took the time to look it over.

 

[Quillion]

but it is pretty much Ike.

Just because two characters happen to be heavy and have swords don't mean they play the same.

Marth and Toon Link have swords and are fast, so they play the same, right?

Ike and LInk are slow and have swords, so they play the same, right?

Greninja and Sheik are speedy ninjas, so they play the same, right?

Fox and Zamus are futuristic speedsters with a gun and mean kicks, so they play the same, right?

 

[PRGN]

WIZARD'S FISH!!

 

[Codaption]

Just because two characters happen to be heavy and have swords don't mean they play the same.

Marth and Toon Link have swords and are fast, so they play the same, right?

Ike and LInk are slow and have swords, so they play the same, right?

Greninja and Sheik are speedy ninjas, so they play the same, right?

Fox and Zamus are futuristic speedsters with a gun and mean kicks, so they play the same, right?

-Ike and Marth are pure swordfighters. Tink and Link have projectiles which make up 50% of their playstyle, thus defining them as the staple campy characters of smash. That's a huge distinction, and the comparison isn't fair in any sense.

-Greninja and Shiek actually DO play fairly similarly. Both have solid combos and great projectile options, solid recoveries that can be mixed up well, and potent edgeguarding tools. Greninja just has to play more opportunistically due to his worse frame data- if his was more in line with Shiek's, they'd be extremely similar in terms of playstyle, not to mention viability.

-Fox's lasers and Zss paralyzer shots serve very different purposes, and the spacie doesn't have an Up Special that can be used oos and kill off the top at ridiculously low percents. Though they're both quick fighters that like to get in hard on you, combo you and kill you off the top, their differences stem from how they employ different methods of doing so.

Ganon and Ike don't really have these kinds of distinctions going for them if you suddenly just handed Ganon a sword. Conceptually, they have similar qualities- they're both slow and not very mobile, with linear recoveries that are easy to break, but making up for this in their raw damage output. As it is now, most differences in their playstyle stem from the fact that Ike has that huge disjoint and Ganon doesn't.

Honestly, I'm not opposed to Ganon getting changed at a core level if it comes down to it, but a change as mundane as handing the King of Darkness a giant butter knife is...boring, quite frankly. We're talking about rebuilding him from the ground up, why limit yourself to something as simple as this when there are so many possibilities?

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Behold, what Ganondorf should've been from day one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szggXY8k99I

To skip the cinematic stuff and get straight to business, sword is at about 2:00, and magic is about 4:50

It'd need to be toned down, really, but ****. I'm now convinced more than ever that a sorcerer is what Ganondorf needed to be to start. That thing was pure beauty.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Behold, what Ganondorf should've been from day one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szggXY8k99I

To skip the cinematic stuff and get straight to business, sword is at about 2:00, and magic is about 4:50

It'd need to be toned down, really, but ****. I'm now convinced more than ever that a sorcerer is what Ganondorf needed to be to start. That thing was pure beauty.

Dunno what I watched but I want more of it.

 

[Theosmeo]

I´d want him to be more like he was in the TP final boss, these aren't balance focused decisions but they´d be sooooo stylish:

Ftilt trips people if they´re shielding, It doesn´t break it, but it goes through it, like Ryu´s. Ganon in the fight destroyed you if you put your shield up.

Walking and standing, not dashing, gives you super armor for any uncharged projectile, item, or Luma´s attacks. Exceptions are Pacman´s key and hydrant, red hadoukens, and stitch faces. No more PK fire, arc fire, or falco spam. Bomb explosions do no knockback. It was so threatening in the fight when your items just bounced off him.

 

[Codaption]

Behold, what Ganondorf should've been from day one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szggXY8k99I

To skip the cinematic stuff and get straight to business, sword is at about 2:00, and magic is about 4:50

It'd need to be toned down, really, but ****. I'm now convinced more than ever that a sorcerer is what Ganondorf needed to be to start. That thing was pure beauty.

Oh, wow. That there's a thing of beauty, I would have no complaints if this sort of thing were what Ganon became.

 

[Jotari]

Do you taunt to swap movesets or are they completely different characters?

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Do you taunt to swap movesets or are they completely different characters?

It looked like you taunt for the sword one, but the magic one looked like it was its own thing.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Honestly the video has me mired in somber excitement yet overwhelming disappointment. I like everything about both TP Sword Ganon and the godlike Mage Ganon but after seeing it in action it just shows you how uninspired the Ganon we have in Smash 4 is.

Sword Ganon is even more spot on with TP then the vague crap we have in Smash 4. And OoT Mage Dorf is just ****ing genius with just about everything.

Main selling points being he has a hover, a damaging Teleport, and a projectile you can charge just like in the games.

Sad thing is despite all this creativity I don't think we'll ever get an official version of it even as a Phantom Ganon DLC pick.

It is simply baffling that fans of a game series create a more dynamic character that respects the character and the game series it came from then Masahiro Sakurai did who basically just slapped on something quick and called it a night.

I really don't understand.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Honestly the video has me mired in somber excitement yet overwhelming disappointment. I like everything about both TP Sword Ganon and the godlike Mage Ganon but after seeing it in action it just shows you how uninspired the Ganon we have in Smash 4 is.

Sword Ganon is even more spot on with TP then the vague crap we have in Smash 4. And OoT Mage Dorf is just ****ing genius with just about everything.

Main selling points being he has a hover, a damaging Teleport, and a projectile you can charge just like in the games.

Sad thing is despite all this creativity I don't think we'll ever get an official version of it even as a Phantom Ganon DLC pick.

It is simply baffling that fans of a game series create a more dynamic character that respects the character and the game series it came from then Masahiro Sakurai did who basically just slapped on something quick and called it a night.

I really don't understand.

Exact same here. I saw the wizard and it's everything I'd ever wanted out of him in Smash. That thing looks (and presumably feels) like the boss I fought back in 1998, and not a fat guy unsure of whether he's supposed to be Ganondorf or Captain Falcon.

 

[Codaption]

Honestly the video has me mired in somber excitement yet overwhelming disappointment. I like everything about both TP Sword Ganon and the godlike Mage Ganon but after seeing it in action it just shows you how uninspired the Ganon we have in Smash 4 is.

Sword Ganon is even more spot on with TP then the vague crap we have in Smash 4. And OoT Mage Dorf is just ****ing genius with just about everything.

Main selling points being he has a hover, a damaging Teleport, and a projectile you can charge just like in the games.

Sad thing is despite all this creativity I don't think we'll ever get an official version of it even as a Phantom Ganon DLC pick.

It is simply baffling that fans of a game series create a more dynamic character that respects the character and the game series it came from then Masahiro Sakurai did who basically just slapped on something quick and called it a night.

I really don't understand.

To be fair, the creators of the mod had the major advantage of doing it second. The second take on any concept will almost always be better, because you have the opportunity of looking at the flaws of the first and fixing them, while at the same time fine-tuning the good points.

Of course, it's Ganon. Ganon has a lot of very obvious flaws, literally almost anything that could be done would have been better.