Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
Ok, so people who have just started playing Fox, and people who are just stuck in a mediocre position with him all know certain things about him... whether they've really sat down and thought about it or not... :
It seems like you can never get inside to land a clean hit
You get grabbed as Fox... a LOT
It's very hard to get back on stage after being knocked off.... you keep getting gimped
Well, I decided to make a thread about these topics, and say some of the things that I have picked up and noticed in a large number of Fox matches out there... including quite a few I played.
First of all, let's start with the basic noob-ridding tactic of competitive play, regardless of game,
1. Learn to watch your opponent, rather than yourself.
It's as simple as that. You HAVE to learn to watch your opponent and guess what he is going to do next. If you can learn things that they like to do, you can then start punishing them for it, or stop getting punished for it. The Fox vs. Olimar discussion comes to mind... Several times in that discussion, Olimar's pivot grab was listed as REALLY hurting Fox... which, yes, it's a good tactic. HOWEVER, if the Fox player cannot learn that the Olimar is going to do that and figure out how to punish it, he should not ever win the match, anyway... you HAVE to adapt. you HAVE to be able to get around what they are punishing you for... and you HAVE to be able to punish them for things they keep doing...
For another easy example... the common thing for non-experienced players to do is roll behind you...especially when they are near the ledge and you approach. If you see this happen, of course you can punish it...HARD...with either an U-smash to kill, or a D-air to start a combo... you just have to learn to predict and punish that kind of play.
2. Approaching and controlling a match with Fox.
As probably many of you have heard in some form or shape, Fox's approaching options are more limited than many characters in Brawl. He doesn't seem to have very many safe tactics for approaching. While this is true, it is overamplified, in my personal opinion, by some people you will hear on these boards. In this guide, I hope to convey some better ways and mixups to approach, to limit your predictability and increase rewards overall. You'll hear me talking a lot in this as if the opponent is shielding or trying to dodge your attacks. This happens a LOT as many characters have good grabs setups or Out-of-Shield options against Fox.
First of all, you HAVE to get around the idea that Fox can or should only approach with SH D-air.
Yes, Dair is a very good combo-starter. It can straight up beat an impressive number of attacks, and it's overall a good idea. HOWEVER, if that is your main/only form of approach, you will get shield grabbed...a LOT... and this is generally a bad thing for a fast faller.
D-air is still a very good move, but I feel that it is misused now. It should very rarely be used as a form of approach, and rather as a punisher for something you expect. With its easy to pull combos and lasting hitboxes, Dair is amazing for punishing an expected roll or spot-dodge...or even beating out a predicted move....such as jumping over a Snake f-tilt... and it's even more amazing as an edgeguarding tool against a number of characters, such as Falco, Wolf, Diddy, DK, tether characters, etc etc.
Again, I'm not saying to stop using D-air at all... I'm saying to stop using it as the only way you approach...
So wait...if I don't use D-air as much...what should I use?
Well, this really depends on who you are playing, what they are doing, and what character they use. I know this sounds complicated, but there are a few universally good approaching options.
First, you have to realize that Fox has a number of different options here. While he lacks the universal approaching tactic that a number of higher-tiers have, he also has quite a few good options... So instead of one godly approach, such as G&W's SH aerials, you get several decent ones that you can mix up. This is both a detriment and a help to the Fox player. While there is no universal strategy against every character in the game, if one of your approaching options is taken out for some reason, you still have a large number of other things you can do... So let me get into the different approaches I have used/seen.
Dash shield:
In my opinion, this is easily the most useful and universal approaching option Fox has. Fox is a fast character, so shielding while you run causes you to slide ever so slightly forward after the shield. Any fighting game player should understand how useful this is... you are approaching and blocking at the same time. Then out of shield, you have several options...including a grab, a SH aerial...a FH aerial, an usmash, and even a dsmash... So you have one of the best killing moves in the game (usmash) coming out after a shield that is sliding forward... yeah, it's a very good option. This is also the only way a dashing grab should be used, as it is much faster than a normal dashing grab...
One thing to note, this does not always lead into anything... a large number of characters can SH backward, or roll away from you without you being able to do much of anything about it. HOWEVER, this just leads to another dash shield, until they run out of stage... This is Fox's main pressure player, imo... and should definitely be a staple for Fox's game. Many times, this will lead to your opponent getting nervous and dodging/rolling in a way you expect...at which point you can follow with a D-air combo, or an usmash to kill. This tactic also completely beats zoning tactics such as Samus's Z-air
Pivot Wave Grab or PWG: (Dash, then dash-attack and turn around grab simultaneously...this leads to a very long backward sliding grab)
While this approach is very situational, it is another of Fox's best approaching options. If a normal grab were to keep getting spot-dodged... This is a VERY good alternative. It sends you sliding backward behind their shield, and as such, it is almost completely unpunishable. Also, quoting Marsulas, Fox has the fastest pivot grab in the game...so yeah, it's a very good option. Also, this grab has the ability to catch a spot-dodge, with proper timing, due to a much larger grab range than normal... so your opponent can spot dodge correctly, and you can STILL land the grab... Thus, the grab is mostly unpunishable, long range, fast, and long-lasting... so yeah, it's going to be a good option.
Its one main drawback is the fact that it has the grab range BEHIND you... so any sort of anti-approach attack will hit you... this includes any jab, Z-air, or etc... that's why I said it was situational.
SH F-air:
This is a good option against persistently shielding players...It has enough range and mobility to keep it from being shielded, and can be made lagless by executing the aerial immediately after you jump... This is an incredible tactic against larger characters like DDD, DK, or even Snake, as you can F-air their shield a couple times, then drift back to avoid being grabbed/punished. If it does land the attacks, it does quite a bit of damage, in the upper 20%s. The main downside about this as an approach is that it's rendered basically useless against smaller characters...as your kicks do not hit them, and they are free to run under you and usmash/etc.
Short Hop Air-Dodge (or SHAD):
This approach actually slipped my mind the first time I wrote this... oops...
Anyways, This is actually a very viable approaching option, although it can be situational. Basically, if you approach, and SHAD behind a shield, you will avoid any attack/grab/dodge they throw out, and be able to land behind them and grab or utilt, or really anything you want to do.. Yeah, it's good.
A main drawback of using this move is becoming predictable. Yeah, it's an amazing mixup approach, but if your opponent sees it coming, they can react to it and punish it... Particularly characters with fast attacks out of shield, such as Marth and MK's up-B's. Remember that even though you are air-dodging, and then possibly shielding, you do have a small amount of landing lag in which you are vulnerable to an attack... so if they catch this, they can put some hurt on you.
It's still a good option, and one of Fox's better approaches, you just can't use it every single time. be smart about it.
SH N-air and B-air:
These are options that are widely used in the japanese style of play. I'll start with N-air
N-air is a better approach, generally, than D-air as you can fade behind a shield with it MUCH more easily... so it's harder to shield grab... and thus, a better option for approaching. N-air has two different types of hit boxes... at the start, it has a strong hitbox that has a decent amount of knockback. After the initial attack, it has a lasting weaker hitbox with much less knockback. At low %s, a strong N-air does combo into other moves, such as U-tilt... While it is not as good of a combo starter, generally, as D-air, it does get the job done. A weaker Nair combos into other moves at higher %s than a strong Nair... and can even combo into an U-smash at the higher %s. More testing needs to be done with various characters to see what these %s are.
B-air is actually quite good for approaching with proper use. It can be a lagless SH aerial... which, when leading into D-smash or U-smash, makes it a VERY dangerous mixup against shield. With proper spacing and timing, SH B-air can hit the shield, causing enough lag on their shield for you to hit with either down or up smash right when they try to land a grab... I love this as a good mixup. At very low %s, B-air actually combos into U-tilt, as well.
FH Aerials:
This is not an amazing option in some cases, but with proper shine stalling, and landing behind shields, this is another good way to approach. It puts Fox in a risky position, but it is one of the only ways D-air is not so risky...as you can land behind Shields with it... and you can shine stall to avoid an utilt or something that will beat it, then land a D-air into a combo...I use it a lot... but it's not the safest idea... It's just good for starting combos.
Zoning and Spacing:
This is something you'll primarily hear more on the Marth boards, or one of several other char boards, but it is also applicable to Fox, and is a graowing strategy for approach with him. While Fox's range is limited, he does have several attacks that are very good at applying pressure and/or hitting an opponent's shield without them being able to grab you from it. Keep in mind that this is very dependent on your own personal spacing and your opponent's grab range.
Ftilt, Dtilt, Bair, Utilt, and Fair, mainly, all have properties that make them particularly hard to shield grab. Several other attacks, such as a well spaced Usmash, Dsmash, or Fsmash even have enough range to avoid a grab, but they are laggy, and as such, you can easily get punished for them anyway, so I will focus on the others.
Ftilt and Dtilt, while both a bit slow, are very useful in the zoning or your opponent. They simply allow for a free attack, most likely on the shield, of your opponent...simply to apply pressure and try to force a roll or dodge that you can punish.
Bair and Utilt are usually used together to form a sort of walling tactic that is actually quite hard to get around. SH Bair and utilt are both used to stop your opponent from getting inside as they both have decent range and priority, and utilt is very fast. Of course, this will not work on every opponent, but it is a very good option in some cases. This tactic has seen a lot of play in the Japanese style of Fox.
Other general options:
There are quite a few other options that all have their uses in a proper mixup, but that I don't have enough time or material, really, to add a full write-up on them.
Dash attack should only be used RIGHT in front of a shield, so you slide behind the opponent, avoiding the grab and getting a free utilt. It's still a decent idea if you space it well, as I said.
Shield grab, I mentioned in the sliding shield section... it's ALWAYS a decent option for Fox as his throws, while not comboing into much of anything, GREATLY increase the amount of pressure you are applying on your opponent.
SH reverse D-air is a VERY interesting idea that came to me a few days ago....I haven't done enough testing on it yet to really speak it as fact, but I believe it starts hitting the opponent (or their shield) behind you before a normal SH D-air would...thus, it might be more viable for fading to the back of a shield than a normal D-air ever is... It's something that needs tested, so don't take my word for it just yet...
i will be updating this entire guide as I feel like it... so there might be more to come... any ideas you might want put in, PM them to me or post them and I'll look at them.
3. Recovering with Fox
This is a HUGE pitfall for Fox players... and a fallback in a lot of the matchup discussions. "Fox is easy to gimp" "I can never get back on the stage" "Fox's recovery sucks".
All of these are fairly true, but they are not completely correct...they are based, mainly, on experience with predictable Fox players.
Fox has a LOT of mixup ability when it comes to his recovery game (relative to the rest of the cast)... He has the two main recovering options, Illusion and Fire-Fox, in addition to Shine-stalling, Rising F-air double jumps, and Illusion cancels...
The main idea here, as in most of the cases with a proper technique for fighting games, is to be unpredictable, so I'm going to lay out pretty much every option available to a Fox player, then show a couple ways to mix it up...
Rising F-air:
This should be automatic for any good Fox player... Doing a F-air right after your second jump GREATLY increases the height you obtain from the jump, while attacking to cover your front from potential attacks... There's really no drawback to using this every time you need to recover.
Firefox:
Yeah, yeah, everybody knows about the Firefox... it's the most basic way to recover... It has a long startup time, during which, you are very vulnerable to attacks...HOWEVER, that does not instantly disqualify it from being used as a good recovery tool at times.
First of all, the Firefox sweetspots the edge...which is very nice...You can also choose a LARGE number of directions in which you want it to go, so that's another good feature. The only real problem is the gimpability of it... which is a large problem, I agree. Things that are generally forgotten or not used:
The firefox can sweetspot the ledge from ABOVE the ledge...at any angle...as long as you are not holding down when you reach it. This is a huge problem for an edgeguarder as you have several options to pick, and they can usually only cover one or two of them. Say you go for the ledge, and they think you're coming onto the stage...that's a free ledge for you. Say the hog the edge, and you go on the stage... that's a generally safe idea, as well... Add to that the fact that with proper angling, the firefox goes farther than most players expect.
Illusion:
Most people recognize this move as being better than the firefox for horizontal recovery...which it is. The main drawback, there, is that it leads to people always expecting and gimping it... You still have quite a few options here, though. First of all, you can cancel the Illusion at any time during the moving animation by hitting B... This keeps your forward momentum, rather than having the big stop on it you usually have when using the move. This is very much needed for Fox players to practice... While you can cancel the illusion at any time, two main timing should be practiced...the long cancel, and the short cancel... The long cancel goes MUCH farther than a normal illusion, and the short cancel can gain you the ledge when they try to hit you out of it.
Also realize that when you cancel it...you slide during the landing lag of the move... so it's hard to predict and punish while you are vulnerable.
When illusioning, you only have a couple of options... one is to go to the ledge, and the other is onto the stage, or a platform, etc... This is a large decision as if you guess wrong, you either die, or at least get hit most of the time... just something to consider.
Shine Stalling:
This is actually a VERY good option while recovering... It really adds to the unpredictability of your recovery, while not losing you much altitude... It generally shows you what your opponent is going to do to edgeguard you, if you are paying attention. It forces them to stay on the stage or come out after you, and allows you to react to it. Generally, it's not a bad choice.
Alright... so some mixups that you should generally watch for...
Much of the time, when you are recovering at a mid distance from the stage, your opponent is going to try to steal your second jump, forcing you to firefox to your death... so you HAVE to avoid this at all cost. One main way to do this, as crazy as it might be, is to NOT second jump TOWARDS the stage... Instead, go straight up, or even away from it a bit... This will force their hand... if they try to jump after you and steal it, you then can illusion back to the stage. While the rising F-air will protect you somewhat, you can't rely on it to save you from everything, and thus, you must avoid their attack.
Recovering HIGH is a very good option sometimes....particularly on stages with platforms. Cancel your illusion at a height about 1.5 times your normal jump height and coast onto the stage... against, your cancel should cause you to slide some... reducing your risk of getting punished. Now this is risky, sure...as it can lead to a free attack for your opponent, but it really depends on where they are when you execute the move.. if they are on or near the ledge, they will not usually have time to catch you when you do this... particularly if you have the option of landing on platforms.
Don't be afraid to use your firefox at a short-mid distance from the stage at eye level... this is actually very intimidating to a number of characters...and can generally give you a free ledge grab.
Of course, this all depends on the character you are fighting... Snake, MK, and Sonic all have VERY different ways to edgeguard you, so some of this will be rendered useless... I'm just listing things that can help a player to recover...
And now, the number one way to get better at any competitive game...especially playing a punishing character like Fox in a defensive-minded game.
4. Killing. Plain and simple.
Ok so you are playing Fox. Fox is simply a killing machine. That's basically what he was made for in Brawl. He is very good at punishing hard and comboing to rack up percentage, then killing the entire cast earlier than almost any other character. In this section of the guide, I will touch on the different situations, scenarios, and strategies you'll need to keep in mind when you are trying to land a kill on your opponent.
Gimping and edgeguarding:
Gimping is one of the most useful tools in the Smash series as it can give you a stock lead, or even up a game MUCH quicker than you would through normal means. It can give you a great emotional advantage against your opponent for the rest of the match, and can allow you to steal a win from somebody who thought they had it in the bag. Thus, I'll start with it.
Edgeguarding in general is very important, as you are able to keep your opponent off the stage, and thus out of their personal strength, usually. It can easily lead to a kill, or just applying damage for you.
Gimping is simply a very good job of edgeguarding that leads to a kill on your opponent. This can be as simple as using a Fthrow to edgehog against a stupid Olimar, or as complicated as using a Dair Shine on a recovering DK. First of all, it is very important for me to say that Gimping can actually be very dangerous for you, as if you make a mistake, or your opponent reacts very well to it, it can put you in a very bad position, and completely switch the odds, leading to your death.
The most useful things you have while edgeguarding are Dair, Nair, Bair, Fair, Shine, and edge hog.
Dair is a semi-spike, so it will send your opponent in a downward direction. This is the most useful tool Fox has against some characters. In one situation against several characters, you can jump off the stage, Dair, then shine the opponent at the bottom of the Dair, usually spelling their doom, while you can still return to the stage.
Nair and Dair both have a very good lasting hitbox, and will, as such, be very good in times where you are not sure of your opponent's timing. For instance, against Falco, drop off the stage, double jump back towards the ledge and either Nair or Dair... this is a VERY good strategy for edgeguarding him, as it covers a lot of his possible Phantasm timing.
Fair is generally not the best idea, as it has a vertical knockback, and thus HELPS them in recovery...but it can do a lot of percentage, and if you only hit with a few of the hits, it won't help them vertically... it also augments your second jump, as stated before, and has several hitboxes, so it can still be viable a lot of the time.
Bair is useful only in certain circumstances, mainly when trying for a stage spike, or in basic edgeguarding, but be careful, as it can lead to a whiff and you will be in a bad position.
Edgehog is the MOST important tool he has for edgeguarding. Everything you do should be a mix up with just a basic edgehog, to try to throw off your opponent.
First of all, you need to understand both your opponent and the character they are playing. Of course, I can't list every situation here, but I'll touch on a few.
First, I'll talk about the tether characters. ZSS (being the best of them in terms of recovery), Olimar, and Ivysaur all HAVE to use a tether on the ledge to recover. If you are on the ledge during this, they will send out their tether in its normal path, not grab the ledge, and fall to their death. That is not to say that it is simple. Many times, you need to set it up very well to land the kill anyway. Realize that Dair will semi-spike them, by sending them in a downward direction.. this REALLY hurts the height of their recovery, and can sometimes be followed directly by your shine, sending them to death. This, mixed with just plain edgehogging will make it very hard for them to return. Be smart about your edgehog... Try to guess when they will go for the ledge, and then get on it just before, and watch them fall.
Secondly, multijump characters... Characters with multiple jumps, such as MK, Kirby, DDD, Pit, etc are quite hard to edgeguard, and usually, it just isn't worth the risk. I don't feel that you should just let them get back to the stage because of this, though. Really watch for good timings on edgehogs and aerials to keep them off their guard, and then, you can at least do some damage to them, or once in a while, land a good Bair for a kill.
Third, characters that have a long lag time after their up-B. Marth, DDD, Mario, Luigi, Lucario, etc all have a longer period where, if they have to land on the stage with their upB, they are completely vulnerable for a small period. Typically, in these cases, it is advisable to land a well-timed edgehog against them, and stand, or roll onto the stage (the timing of your ledge getup changes when you have 100%, so watch for that), and you have time for a Dsmash or Usmash. Marth, in particular... if you can hog the ledge for his upB (I would advise never trying to edgeguard Marth any other way), and he lands on the stage, you can pull up, walk behind, and Dsmash him back off the stage, or usmash him, if it will kill. This is VERY effective against a handful of Chars.
There are other types of characters to watch out for, such as Zelda and Wolf's inability to move after their upBs, but basically, you can apply the techs I just stated in different ways to handle all of them.
There are other characters that it's just advisable to not edgeguard... MK and Pit, in particular, you REALLY have to be careful about. it's almost worth it to just try for a clever edge hog, or just laser them for damage.
Killing On Stage
Alright, so your opponent is above around 80%... what should you do? I'll tell you.
Realize that at this point, Dsmash will combo out of your Dair...
Usmash will combo (varying %s on the different characters) out of a weak Nair.
Above around 80-100 (varying on character, I believe), usmash will combo out of Dair.
Usmash can be used out of shield, by jumpcanceling it.
Dsmash can be used from a shield drop.
Bair is pretty quick and safe, and can autocancel into Dsmash for a pretty nice shield frame trap.
Uair can kill at higher %s, or higher in the air.
Usmash can be used from a dash.
So basically, there are your tools to use. Realize if your opponent is around 100%, if you land a Dair, they attack your shield carelessly, or you guess a dodge correctly, they eat an usmash, which, in most cases will kill them.
Also realize that if they try to shield against an usmash near a ledge, and you hit their shield, it can cause them to fall off, making it very safe... this is a bit risky if they might perfect shield or spotdodge, though, so be careful.
It's likely that your opponent understands that you are Fox and will likely be VERY intimidated when they are at higher %s... use this to your advantage to punish predictable dodges or attacks.
If they are on a platform above you holding shield, a SH bair can force them off the platform, and you can Usmash them when they hit the ground
Again, it's impossible to list every scenario that you will find while playing. The main point is to NOT BE PREDICTABLE when you go for the kill.. they will just punish that and maybe kill you first. Try to force something. Watch for an opening and punish it. Bait them out, then land it.
i will be updating this entire guide as I feel like it... so there will be more to come... any ideas you might want put in, PM them to me or post them and I'll look at them. I'm kind of meaning this as a cooperating guide with A6M's "The Reason You're Losing" thread a while back... so that's a general idea... feel free to post and discuss and all that good stuff. work in progress
It seems like you can never get inside to land a clean hit
You get grabbed as Fox... a LOT
It's very hard to get back on stage after being knocked off.... you keep getting gimped
Well, I decided to make a thread about these topics, and say some of the things that I have picked up and noticed in a large number of Fox matches out there... including quite a few I played.
First of all, let's start with the basic noob-ridding tactic of competitive play, regardless of game,
1. Learn to watch your opponent, rather than yourself.
It's as simple as that. You HAVE to learn to watch your opponent and guess what he is going to do next. If you can learn things that they like to do, you can then start punishing them for it, or stop getting punished for it. The Fox vs. Olimar discussion comes to mind... Several times in that discussion, Olimar's pivot grab was listed as REALLY hurting Fox... which, yes, it's a good tactic. HOWEVER, if the Fox player cannot learn that the Olimar is going to do that and figure out how to punish it, he should not ever win the match, anyway... you HAVE to adapt. you HAVE to be able to get around what they are punishing you for... and you HAVE to be able to punish them for things they keep doing...
For another easy example... the common thing for non-experienced players to do is roll behind you...especially when they are near the ledge and you approach. If you see this happen, of course you can punish it...HARD...with either an U-smash to kill, or a D-air to start a combo... you just have to learn to predict and punish that kind of play.
2. Approaching and controlling a match with Fox.
As probably many of you have heard in some form or shape, Fox's approaching options are more limited than many characters in Brawl. He doesn't seem to have very many safe tactics for approaching. While this is true, it is overamplified, in my personal opinion, by some people you will hear on these boards. In this guide, I hope to convey some better ways and mixups to approach, to limit your predictability and increase rewards overall. You'll hear me talking a lot in this as if the opponent is shielding or trying to dodge your attacks. This happens a LOT as many characters have good grabs setups or Out-of-Shield options against Fox.
First of all, you HAVE to get around the idea that Fox can or should only approach with SH D-air.
Yes, Dair is a very good combo-starter. It can straight up beat an impressive number of attacks, and it's overall a good idea. HOWEVER, if that is your main/only form of approach, you will get shield grabbed...a LOT... and this is generally a bad thing for a fast faller.
D-air is still a very good move, but I feel that it is misused now. It should very rarely be used as a form of approach, and rather as a punisher for something you expect. With its easy to pull combos and lasting hitboxes, Dair is amazing for punishing an expected roll or spot-dodge...or even beating out a predicted move....such as jumping over a Snake f-tilt... and it's even more amazing as an edgeguarding tool against a number of characters, such as Falco, Wolf, Diddy, DK, tether characters, etc etc.
Again, I'm not saying to stop using D-air at all... I'm saying to stop using it as the only way you approach...
So wait...if I don't use D-air as much...what should I use?
Well, this really depends on who you are playing, what they are doing, and what character they use. I know this sounds complicated, but there are a few universally good approaching options.
First, you have to realize that Fox has a number of different options here. While he lacks the universal approaching tactic that a number of higher-tiers have, he also has quite a few good options... So instead of one godly approach, such as G&W's SH aerials, you get several decent ones that you can mix up. This is both a detriment and a help to the Fox player. While there is no universal strategy against every character in the game, if one of your approaching options is taken out for some reason, you still have a large number of other things you can do... So let me get into the different approaches I have used/seen.
Dash shield:
In my opinion, this is easily the most useful and universal approaching option Fox has. Fox is a fast character, so shielding while you run causes you to slide ever so slightly forward after the shield. Any fighting game player should understand how useful this is... you are approaching and blocking at the same time. Then out of shield, you have several options...including a grab, a SH aerial...a FH aerial, an usmash, and even a dsmash... So you have one of the best killing moves in the game (usmash) coming out after a shield that is sliding forward... yeah, it's a very good option. This is also the only way a dashing grab should be used, as it is much faster than a normal dashing grab...
One thing to note, this does not always lead into anything... a large number of characters can SH backward, or roll away from you without you being able to do much of anything about it. HOWEVER, this just leads to another dash shield, until they run out of stage... This is Fox's main pressure player, imo... and should definitely be a staple for Fox's game. Many times, this will lead to your opponent getting nervous and dodging/rolling in a way you expect...at which point you can follow with a D-air combo, or an usmash to kill. This tactic also completely beats zoning tactics such as Samus's Z-air
Pivot Wave Grab or PWG: (Dash, then dash-attack and turn around grab simultaneously...this leads to a very long backward sliding grab)
While this approach is very situational, it is another of Fox's best approaching options. If a normal grab were to keep getting spot-dodged... This is a VERY good alternative. It sends you sliding backward behind their shield, and as such, it is almost completely unpunishable. Also, quoting Marsulas, Fox has the fastest pivot grab in the game...so yeah, it's a very good option. Also, this grab has the ability to catch a spot-dodge, with proper timing, due to a much larger grab range than normal... so your opponent can spot dodge correctly, and you can STILL land the grab... Thus, the grab is mostly unpunishable, long range, fast, and long-lasting... so yeah, it's going to be a good option.
Its one main drawback is the fact that it has the grab range BEHIND you... so any sort of anti-approach attack will hit you... this includes any jab, Z-air, or etc... that's why I said it was situational.
SH F-air:
This is a good option against persistently shielding players...It has enough range and mobility to keep it from being shielded, and can be made lagless by executing the aerial immediately after you jump... This is an incredible tactic against larger characters like DDD, DK, or even Snake, as you can F-air their shield a couple times, then drift back to avoid being grabbed/punished. If it does land the attacks, it does quite a bit of damage, in the upper 20%s. The main downside about this as an approach is that it's rendered basically useless against smaller characters...as your kicks do not hit them, and they are free to run under you and usmash/etc.
Short Hop Air-Dodge (or SHAD):
This approach actually slipped my mind the first time I wrote this... oops...
Anyways, This is actually a very viable approaching option, although it can be situational. Basically, if you approach, and SHAD behind a shield, you will avoid any attack/grab/dodge they throw out, and be able to land behind them and grab or utilt, or really anything you want to do.. Yeah, it's good.
A main drawback of using this move is becoming predictable. Yeah, it's an amazing mixup approach, but if your opponent sees it coming, they can react to it and punish it... Particularly characters with fast attacks out of shield, such as Marth and MK's up-B's. Remember that even though you are air-dodging, and then possibly shielding, you do have a small amount of landing lag in which you are vulnerable to an attack... so if they catch this, they can put some hurt on you.
It's still a good option, and one of Fox's better approaches, you just can't use it every single time. be smart about it.
SH N-air and B-air:
These are options that are widely used in the japanese style of play. I'll start with N-air
N-air is a better approach, generally, than D-air as you can fade behind a shield with it MUCH more easily... so it's harder to shield grab... and thus, a better option for approaching. N-air has two different types of hit boxes... at the start, it has a strong hitbox that has a decent amount of knockback. After the initial attack, it has a lasting weaker hitbox with much less knockback. At low %s, a strong N-air does combo into other moves, such as U-tilt... While it is not as good of a combo starter, generally, as D-air, it does get the job done. A weaker Nair combos into other moves at higher %s than a strong Nair... and can even combo into an U-smash at the higher %s. More testing needs to be done with various characters to see what these %s are.
B-air is actually quite good for approaching with proper use. It can be a lagless SH aerial... which, when leading into D-smash or U-smash, makes it a VERY dangerous mixup against shield. With proper spacing and timing, SH B-air can hit the shield, causing enough lag on their shield for you to hit with either down or up smash right when they try to land a grab... I love this as a good mixup. At very low %s, B-air actually combos into U-tilt, as well.
FH Aerials:
This is not an amazing option in some cases, but with proper shine stalling, and landing behind shields, this is another good way to approach. It puts Fox in a risky position, but it is one of the only ways D-air is not so risky...as you can land behind Shields with it... and you can shine stall to avoid an utilt or something that will beat it, then land a D-air into a combo...I use it a lot... but it's not the safest idea... It's just good for starting combos.
Zoning and Spacing:
This is something you'll primarily hear more on the Marth boards, or one of several other char boards, but it is also applicable to Fox, and is a graowing strategy for approach with him. While Fox's range is limited, he does have several attacks that are very good at applying pressure and/or hitting an opponent's shield without them being able to grab you from it. Keep in mind that this is very dependent on your own personal spacing and your opponent's grab range.
Ftilt, Dtilt, Bair, Utilt, and Fair, mainly, all have properties that make them particularly hard to shield grab. Several other attacks, such as a well spaced Usmash, Dsmash, or Fsmash even have enough range to avoid a grab, but they are laggy, and as such, you can easily get punished for them anyway, so I will focus on the others.
Ftilt and Dtilt, while both a bit slow, are very useful in the zoning or your opponent. They simply allow for a free attack, most likely on the shield, of your opponent...simply to apply pressure and try to force a roll or dodge that you can punish.
Bair and Utilt are usually used together to form a sort of walling tactic that is actually quite hard to get around. SH Bair and utilt are both used to stop your opponent from getting inside as they both have decent range and priority, and utilt is very fast. Of course, this will not work on every opponent, but it is a very good option in some cases. This tactic has seen a lot of play in the Japanese style of Fox.
Other general options:
There are quite a few other options that all have their uses in a proper mixup, but that I don't have enough time or material, really, to add a full write-up on them.
Dash attack should only be used RIGHT in front of a shield, so you slide behind the opponent, avoiding the grab and getting a free utilt. It's still a decent idea if you space it well, as I said.
Shield grab, I mentioned in the sliding shield section... it's ALWAYS a decent option for Fox as his throws, while not comboing into much of anything, GREATLY increase the amount of pressure you are applying on your opponent.
SH reverse D-air is a VERY interesting idea that came to me a few days ago....I haven't done enough testing on it yet to really speak it as fact, but I believe it starts hitting the opponent (or their shield) behind you before a normal SH D-air would...thus, it might be more viable for fading to the back of a shield than a normal D-air ever is... It's something that needs tested, so don't take my word for it just yet...
i will be updating this entire guide as I feel like it... so there might be more to come... any ideas you might want put in, PM them to me or post them and I'll look at them.
3. Recovering with Fox
This is a HUGE pitfall for Fox players... and a fallback in a lot of the matchup discussions. "Fox is easy to gimp" "I can never get back on the stage" "Fox's recovery sucks".
All of these are fairly true, but they are not completely correct...they are based, mainly, on experience with predictable Fox players.
Fox has a LOT of mixup ability when it comes to his recovery game (relative to the rest of the cast)... He has the two main recovering options, Illusion and Fire-Fox, in addition to Shine-stalling, Rising F-air double jumps, and Illusion cancels...
The main idea here, as in most of the cases with a proper technique for fighting games, is to be unpredictable, so I'm going to lay out pretty much every option available to a Fox player, then show a couple ways to mix it up...
Rising F-air:
This should be automatic for any good Fox player... Doing a F-air right after your second jump GREATLY increases the height you obtain from the jump, while attacking to cover your front from potential attacks... There's really no drawback to using this every time you need to recover.
Firefox:
Yeah, yeah, everybody knows about the Firefox... it's the most basic way to recover... It has a long startup time, during which, you are very vulnerable to attacks...HOWEVER, that does not instantly disqualify it from being used as a good recovery tool at times.
First of all, the Firefox sweetspots the edge...which is very nice...You can also choose a LARGE number of directions in which you want it to go, so that's another good feature. The only real problem is the gimpability of it... which is a large problem, I agree. Things that are generally forgotten or not used:
The firefox can sweetspot the ledge from ABOVE the ledge...at any angle...as long as you are not holding down when you reach it. This is a huge problem for an edgeguarder as you have several options to pick, and they can usually only cover one or two of them. Say you go for the ledge, and they think you're coming onto the stage...that's a free ledge for you. Say the hog the edge, and you go on the stage... that's a generally safe idea, as well... Add to that the fact that with proper angling, the firefox goes farther than most players expect.
Illusion:
Most people recognize this move as being better than the firefox for horizontal recovery...which it is. The main drawback, there, is that it leads to people always expecting and gimping it... You still have quite a few options here, though. First of all, you can cancel the Illusion at any time during the moving animation by hitting B... This keeps your forward momentum, rather than having the big stop on it you usually have when using the move. This is very much needed for Fox players to practice... While you can cancel the illusion at any time, two main timing should be practiced...the long cancel, and the short cancel... The long cancel goes MUCH farther than a normal illusion, and the short cancel can gain you the ledge when they try to hit you out of it.
Also realize that when you cancel it...you slide during the landing lag of the move... so it's hard to predict and punish while you are vulnerable.
When illusioning, you only have a couple of options... one is to go to the ledge, and the other is onto the stage, or a platform, etc... This is a large decision as if you guess wrong, you either die, or at least get hit most of the time... just something to consider.
Shine Stalling:
This is actually a VERY good option while recovering... It really adds to the unpredictability of your recovery, while not losing you much altitude... It generally shows you what your opponent is going to do to edgeguard you, if you are paying attention. It forces them to stay on the stage or come out after you, and allows you to react to it. Generally, it's not a bad choice.
Alright... so some mixups that you should generally watch for...
Much of the time, when you are recovering at a mid distance from the stage, your opponent is going to try to steal your second jump, forcing you to firefox to your death... so you HAVE to avoid this at all cost. One main way to do this, as crazy as it might be, is to NOT second jump TOWARDS the stage... Instead, go straight up, or even away from it a bit... This will force their hand... if they try to jump after you and steal it, you then can illusion back to the stage. While the rising F-air will protect you somewhat, you can't rely on it to save you from everything, and thus, you must avoid their attack.
Recovering HIGH is a very good option sometimes....particularly on stages with platforms. Cancel your illusion at a height about 1.5 times your normal jump height and coast onto the stage... against, your cancel should cause you to slide some... reducing your risk of getting punished. Now this is risky, sure...as it can lead to a free attack for your opponent, but it really depends on where they are when you execute the move.. if they are on or near the ledge, they will not usually have time to catch you when you do this... particularly if you have the option of landing on platforms.
Don't be afraid to use your firefox at a short-mid distance from the stage at eye level... this is actually very intimidating to a number of characters...and can generally give you a free ledge grab.
Of course, this all depends on the character you are fighting... Snake, MK, and Sonic all have VERY different ways to edgeguard you, so some of this will be rendered useless... I'm just listing things that can help a player to recover...
And now, the number one way to get better at any competitive game...especially playing a punishing character like Fox in a defensive-minded game.
4. Killing. Plain and simple.
Ok so you are playing Fox. Fox is simply a killing machine. That's basically what he was made for in Brawl. He is very good at punishing hard and comboing to rack up percentage, then killing the entire cast earlier than almost any other character. In this section of the guide, I will touch on the different situations, scenarios, and strategies you'll need to keep in mind when you are trying to land a kill on your opponent.
Gimping and edgeguarding:
Gimping is one of the most useful tools in the Smash series as it can give you a stock lead, or even up a game MUCH quicker than you would through normal means. It can give you a great emotional advantage against your opponent for the rest of the match, and can allow you to steal a win from somebody who thought they had it in the bag. Thus, I'll start with it.
Edgeguarding in general is very important, as you are able to keep your opponent off the stage, and thus out of their personal strength, usually. It can easily lead to a kill, or just applying damage for you.
Gimping is simply a very good job of edgeguarding that leads to a kill on your opponent. This can be as simple as using a Fthrow to edgehog against a stupid Olimar, or as complicated as using a Dair Shine on a recovering DK. First of all, it is very important for me to say that Gimping can actually be very dangerous for you, as if you make a mistake, or your opponent reacts very well to it, it can put you in a very bad position, and completely switch the odds, leading to your death.
The most useful things you have while edgeguarding are Dair, Nair, Bair, Fair, Shine, and edge hog.
Dair is a semi-spike, so it will send your opponent in a downward direction. This is the most useful tool Fox has against some characters. In one situation against several characters, you can jump off the stage, Dair, then shine the opponent at the bottom of the Dair, usually spelling their doom, while you can still return to the stage.
Nair and Dair both have a very good lasting hitbox, and will, as such, be very good in times where you are not sure of your opponent's timing. For instance, against Falco, drop off the stage, double jump back towards the ledge and either Nair or Dair... this is a VERY good strategy for edgeguarding him, as it covers a lot of his possible Phantasm timing.
Fair is generally not the best idea, as it has a vertical knockback, and thus HELPS them in recovery...but it can do a lot of percentage, and if you only hit with a few of the hits, it won't help them vertically... it also augments your second jump, as stated before, and has several hitboxes, so it can still be viable a lot of the time.
Bair is useful only in certain circumstances, mainly when trying for a stage spike, or in basic edgeguarding, but be careful, as it can lead to a whiff and you will be in a bad position.
Edgehog is the MOST important tool he has for edgeguarding. Everything you do should be a mix up with just a basic edgehog, to try to throw off your opponent.
First of all, you need to understand both your opponent and the character they are playing. Of course, I can't list every situation here, but I'll touch on a few.
First, I'll talk about the tether characters. ZSS (being the best of them in terms of recovery), Olimar, and Ivysaur all HAVE to use a tether on the ledge to recover. If you are on the ledge during this, they will send out their tether in its normal path, not grab the ledge, and fall to their death. That is not to say that it is simple. Many times, you need to set it up very well to land the kill anyway. Realize that Dair will semi-spike them, by sending them in a downward direction.. this REALLY hurts the height of their recovery, and can sometimes be followed directly by your shine, sending them to death. This, mixed with just plain edgehogging will make it very hard for them to return. Be smart about your edgehog... Try to guess when they will go for the ledge, and then get on it just before, and watch them fall.
Secondly, multijump characters... Characters with multiple jumps, such as MK, Kirby, DDD, Pit, etc are quite hard to edgeguard, and usually, it just isn't worth the risk. I don't feel that you should just let them get back to the stage because of this, though. Really watch for good timings on edgehogs and aerials to keep them off their guard, and then, you can at least do some damage to them, or once in a while, land a good Bair for a kill.
Third, characters that have a long lag time after their up-B. Marth, DDD, Mario, Luigi, Lucario, etc all have a longer period where, if they have to land on the stage with their upB, they are completely vulnerable for a small period. Typically, in these cases, it is advisable to land a well-timed edgehog against them, and stand, or roll onto the stage (the timing of your ledge getup changes when you have 100%, so watch for that), and you have time for a Dsmash or Usmash. Marth, in particular... if you can hog the ledge for his upB (I would advise never trying to edgeguard Marth any other way), and he lands on the stage, you can pull up, walk behind, and Dsmash him back off the stage, or usmash him, if it will kill. This is VERY effective against a handful of Chars.
There are other types of characters to watch out for, such as Zelda and Wolf's inability to move after their upBs, but basically, you can apply the techs I just stated in different ways to handle all of them.
There are other characters that it's just advisable to not edgeguard... MK and Pit, in particular, you REALLY have to be careful about. it's almost worth it to just try for a clever edge hog, or just laser them for damage.
Killing On Stage
Alright, so your opponent is above around 80%... what should you do? I'll tell you.
Realize that at this point, Dsmash will combo out of your Dair...
Usmash will combo (varying %s on the different characters) out of a weak Nair.
Above around 80-100 (varying on character, I believe), usmash will combo out of Dair.
Usmash can be used out of shield, by jumpcanceling it.
Dsmash can be used from a shield drop.
Bair is pretty quick and safe, and can autocancel into Dsmash for a pretty nice shield frame trap.
Uair can kill at higher %s, or higher in the air.
Usmash can be used from a dash.
So basically, there are your tools to use. Realize if your opponent is around 100%, if you land a Dair, they attack your shield carelessly, or you guess a dodge correctly, they eat an usmash, which, in most cases will kill them.
Also realize that if they try to shield against an usmash near a ledge, and you hit their shield, it can cause them to fall off, making it very safe... this is a bit risky if they might perfect shield or spotdodge, though, so be careful.
It's likely that your opponent understands that you are Fox and will likely be VERY intimidated when they are at higher %s... use this to your advantage to punish predictable dodges or attacks.
If they are on a platform above you holding shield, a SH bair can force them off the platform, and you can Usmash them when they hit the ground
Again, it's impossible to list every scenario that you will find while playing. The main point is to NOT BE PREDICTABLE when you go for the kill.. they will just punish that and maybe kill you first. Try to force something. Watch for an opening and punish it. Bait them out, then land it.
i will be updating this entire guide as I feel like it... so there will be more to come... any ideas you might want put in, PM them to me or post them and I'll look at them. I'm kind of meaning this as a cooperating guide with A6M's "The Reason You're Losing" thread a while back... so that's a general idea... feel free to post and discuss and all that good stuff. work in progress
I think that in order to become a great Fox player, you absolutely need offensive mindgames. The opponent will expect a SH Dair. It seems a bad position for Fox, but it isn't. It is the greatest thing Fox has right now, since because of that, you can mix up your game, and make your opponent lost.
