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The Jet-Black General, Black Knight, Echoes into Smash

HairMythe

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 25, 2018
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40
I do agree to be suspicious on the disappearance of the nobody on the throne which we think it’s black knight from similarity’s

But there’s one more arguement

What about this?

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Zelgius
(Picture refuses to load up)

This is zelgius

Or should I say black knight with his helmet removed

And the armor is red just like the change.
A red armored knight doesn't mean it's Zelgius on the throne ; that particular color is way too generic, it could (and will) be indentified as any enemy knight unit in a Fire Emblem game. The Black Knight is way more iconic and would make a lot more sense to keep around.
 

CardStealer1

Smash Journeyman
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I support the Black Knight (limbs or limbless). I find him to be one of the few memorable villains in a series that’s oversaturated with them. The combination of facts being that he’s very popular, had a mii costume, fits perfectly as a clone, and is from a series that currently has no meany meany bad guy representation, makes him a perfect and logical member for inclusion. Plus he looks dope and his voice is intimidating.
 

Barbasol

Smash Ace
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A red armored knight doesn't mean it's Zelgius on the throne ; that particular color is way too generic, it could (and will) be indentified as any enemy knight unit in a Fire Emblem game. The Black Knight is way more iconic and would make a lot more sense to keep around.
Yeah, I spent some time reading through that thread, I don't think it alone points to Black Knight/Zelgius being added... in and of itself - I think that in conjunction with everything else helps build a case for his inclusion.

If he's included, it would only make sense to remove elements that could cause confusion to the player - like a very similarly styled silhouette. The fact the community goes back and forth on whether or not that is Black Knight is proof enough that the character's silhouette in the background is similar enough to cause confusion. So removing that would only make sense if he's going to have another premise.

Overall - I think it's a good thing for his chances.
 

Barbasol

Smash Ace
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May 28, 2011
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I should also mention here - the general in question is undoubtedly supposed to represent Black Knight in the S4 variation. we can see the sprite model here:

Note the armor panelling black and red color scheme (gold is indeed a discrepancy with the typical BK scheme). However the biggest realization that is Black Knight - or at least an inspired-by BK-like general - comes from the helmet. No other character in the Tellius series has a helmet like that. In fact, if we're looking at the General class, you'll note they look like this:


Helmet is a different shape, Shoulder Pauldrons are totally different, and they don't have capes. It's Black Knight and they removed him in Ultimate. Good signs.
 

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Dr. Jojo Phantasma

The Chessmaster
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Mar 8, 2018
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2,079
Yeah, I'm convinced BK has some kind of role in the game whether it is an AT, boss or echo fighter. Of course, it would be best if he is playable. :)
 

EarlTamm

Smash Hero
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Jun 17, 2018
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Sign me up as a supporter! It would be really cool to get a FE villain, and one of the best at that.
 

Sigran101

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Yeah, I'm convinced BK has some kind of role in the game whether it is an AT, boss or echo fighter. Of course, it would be best if he is playable. :)
It has to be echo fighter if this means anything. Knuckles is both an assist trophy and in the background of a stage, so they wouldn't remove BK for that. A boss would not be fought on this stage unless they completely overhualed it to incorporate a stage boss, so no conflict of interest there. Playable or bust I think.
 

Draugen

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Jul 17, 2018
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Brazil
After K. Rool's inclusion, I'm leaning to Black Knight as my most wanted. I love all those villains being included, and Black Knight and other villains, like Black Shadow, would be awesome additions. And they have Echo spots to fill!
 

Aeon Lupin

Survival of the fittest
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Aug 24, 2014
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913
I don't know if someone brought this up, but his mii costume uses new assets much like K. Rool. Either way, I definitely support, as I am one of the few who doesn't mind all the Fire Emblem reps. Especially when they are just echoes.
 

TCT~Phantom

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For me the Black Knight costume always felt out of left field, but to be honest it makes me think he could happen. Those are new assets, he’s a FE villain and an easy Ike echo. He is by far the most popular FE villain, which helps.
 

Diddy Kong

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I support, anyone who doesn’t have blue hair
Ironically, the Black Knight DOES have blue hair :laugh:

Anyway, am totaly down for this! He has to be tweaked a bit however, in the way like in Melee clones where handled. Black Knight needs a new Up B, different mechanics with neutral B and he definitely needs to be heavier than Ike.

I fully support it however!
 

Red Dead Redeemed

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Yes yes and double yes! Now that I got my previously most wanted Echo Fighter Chrom confirmed as a Roy Echo, Daddy BK is now officially my most wanted Echo Fighter and would be the perfect way to round off FE in this game, damn everyone who says there too many FE fighters in the game. Sign me up as a supporter!
 

Sigran101

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https://sourcegaming.info/2018/08/2...smash-direct-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-561/

I referred to the Smash Ballot when selecting characters this time, and King K. Rool from the Donkey Kong series was one who received a ton of votes

Welp it’s official now the ballot is what’s being used for the characters

So black knights get a little more ground for a echo of Ike
Did BK do well on the ballot? I don't remember seeing an ounce of support for him in the smash 4 days.
 

Draugen

Smash Apprentice
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Jul 17, 2018
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I don't remember when the Mii costume happened. Was it after the ballot?
I believe it was after the ballot, since he's on the same DLC wave (number 3) as King K. Rool and Chrom.
On this wave we have Lloyd and Black Knight yet, so I believe both will also be on the game. Lloyd as unique and Black Knight as Ike's echo.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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2,403
I'm totally on board for him being an echo! I was just curious if you guys have tried coming up with any non-echo movesets for him? I'm not too knowledgeable on Fire Emblem so I dunno what he can do exactly. I just like the Black Knight Archetype/ think their needs to be more villains.
 

HairMythe

Smash Cadet
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May 25, 2018
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I'm totally on board for him being an echo! I was just curious if you guys have tried coming up with any non-echo movesets for him? I'm not too knowledgeable on Fire Emblem so I dunno what he can do exactly. I just like the Black Knight Archetype/ think their needs to be more villains.
As a non-echo, his character would be based on his class, his animations, and maybe some key abilities of his.
In the games, he's either a general, or his own class based on generals. (So you can consider him of the general class the same way Ike is of the mercenary class). His animations are particularly slow. He walks up to you, bring his sword up, then slashes at you with a destructive strike. As a non-echo, he'd need to be slower than Ike. Honestly, there's a big chance he'd become the slowest or heaviest character in the cast if he makes it in as an original. I even think these discrepancy between his and Ike's speed, weight and build are the most pertinent counter-argument to him being an echo.

He has a blessed armor, making him effectively immune to normal attacks; that's one of the reason Ike brandishes Ragnell, as it's one of the few weapons able to damage him. That blessing would probably translate into him having super armor in a lot of moves, maybe even passive super armor like Bowser.
His signature move is Luna, which is a descending strike that divide defence by two. Do note that other units may learn that technique, unlike Ike's Aether, but it's a move tied to the general class he'd represent so it's still fitting. Do also note that Aether is the combination of Sol and Luna, so the descending slash of both Ike's and Chrom's Aether is actually Luna. It'd probably look like that. (I'd say we're sleeping on this move potential as an up-B. Honestly he could just have his own "Aether" with an emphasis on the descending slash, brand it as "Luna" and that's it.)
He also uses Warp powder to teleport around the continent, hence the popular suggestion for his up-B. However, he doesn't use it mid-fight.
 
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Cereal Bawks

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I'd love BK as an Ike echo. He could use Eclipse as his FS.

Also, the descending slash of Aether is actually Sol. The upward slash after that is Luna, but that part of the animation isn't in Smash. BK could use either Marth or Roy's up B as his recovery move and just call that Luna.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Let’s be real his up b has to be warp powder. It’s perfect for him to use. Just have it based off of Farores Wind.
 
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Al-kīmiyā'

Smash the State
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Apr 22, 2010
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2,574
His signature move is Luna, which is a descending strike that divide defence by two. Do note that other units may learn that technique, unlike Ike's Aether, but it's a move tied to the general class he'd represent so it's still fitting. Do also note that Aether is the combination of Sol and Luna, so the descending slash of both Ike's and Chrom's Aether is actually Luna.
Also, the descending slash of Aether is actually Sol. The upward slash after that is Luna, but that part of the animation isn't in Smash.
Well, which is it?
 

Blackwolf666

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So... to all those that want Black Knight to be Ike's echo fighter or wouldn't mind if that was the case. How would you like to see it implemented? Black Kight's model is bigger and bulkier than Ike so would he be an even more heavier and slower Ike, about the same, have him without his armor and join as Zelgius?
 
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Barbasol

Smash Ace
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British Columbia
So... to all those that want Black Knight to be Ike's echo fighter or wouldn't mind if that was the case. How would you like to see it implemented? Black Kight's model is bigger and bulkier than Ike so would he be an even more heavier and slower Ike, about the same, have him without his armor and join as Zelgius?
I think my ideal Black Knight Echo would include the following:
Swap Neutral B - Of all the moves that don't suit Zelgius, Eruption would be the most worth changing. Swap this out for Luna, a move that involves slashing his sword to send beams across the stage - we're basically taking Cloud's Blade Beam. https://youtu.be/ujChlKHqaZw?t=2m50s

Forward Tilt - Instead of Ike's lunging outward slash, Zelgius uses a backhand draw slash that he's used in-game. More precisely targetting the top-half of a character profile. See the animation here: https://youtu.be/ujChlKHqaZw?t=1m52s

Neutral Attack - Ike's basic jab-kick-slash showcases him being a scrappy fighter, less typical of Zelguis' refined swordplay. Instead, Zelgius has two light overhead slashes followed up with a torso pierce as seen in this spoilerific cutscene from Path of Radiance: https://youtu.be/KovqNdLKcXo

Final Smash - Dark Luna (aka Eclipse) - Black Knight swings forward and catches the enemy in a flurry of strikes, similar to Ike's but remaining at the level of the initial attack.

Down B Counter Tweak - In the games, Black Knight is capable of countering enemies at a range - so striking him during a counter, even with a ranged attack sends a ranged shockwave back horizontally in the direction of the attacker.

Overall Style Changes - With those listed above, Black Knight would overall be a more precision based Ike with less mobility balanced with increased range potential. He's slower than Ike overall and probably one of the heaviest in the game, but has a lot of power behind those attacks and is capable of lightly zoning enemies to make up for his lack of mobility.
 

DeadlyLampshade

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'Straya, mate.
This is probably one of the few fire emblem characters I would be okay with them announcing post-chrom. Not to mention, being a Black Knight makes him way more unique than a lot of blue haired sword wielders in the game. So he has my support, in fact, I'm certain he has a spot in the roster because otherwise, Fire Emblem doesn't have a villain.
 
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