Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Umm... Why put that in the match-up thread and not the social thread?
-
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The Impact Site (Now with pictures!)
- Thread starter Zori
- Start date
Geddan
Smash Ace
very impacting picture, i can't see it at all. xD
moyshe
Lazer Fox
cant believe I got infracted. See if I ever make awesome pics for oli boards again.
Geddan
Smash Ace
would it make you feel better if i said i loved it? :D
moyshe
Lazer Fox
it does.
your mods are nazis. I guess the only oli pics they allow is pics of oli pivot grabbing
your mods are nazis. I guess the only oli pics they allow is pics of oli pivot grabbing
Jane
Smash Hero
Ahahaha xD
Noa.
Smash Master
What matchups do you know?
All of them.
Noa.
Smash Master
Um wow.
I guess you should do Snake.
If you can that is.
I guess you should do Snake.
If you can that is.Assignment accepted.Um wow.
I guess you should do Snake.
I will work on it in my spare time.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
a while ago someone proposed an idea very similar to zoris. U could of volunteered to do a write up on a mu or revise a large portion of of on already done. I heavily revised thh marth mu. check it out. put it in the impact site if u want.
(Special thanks to BOB SAGET! for revising this entire Marth summary for me. He wrote a large portion of it.)
• Behaviour :
There are 3 qualities that make a good Marth. A good Marth knows how to space well, pressure you with tilts, aerials, and dancing blades, and knows how to win off stage using fairs and the occasional dair.
Tippering- This is what happens when Marth hits his opponent with the tip of his sword on any sword attack. It induces more knockback and more damage. His attacks will kill much sooner.
• Her scaring moves :
-Fair: Easily Marth's best aerial. It's got range, it's disjointed, if tippered it's strong, and not it makes for a great WoP (wall of pain). He can use 2 in one short hop. If he lands a fair on you, he can usually combo it into dancing blade to rack up even more damage. Basically, his fair outclasses yours. Don't try to do the downthrow->fair combo on Marth past maybe 0-5%. If he DIs correctly, his fair will beat out your fair so you will get hit instead! He can also kill latched pikmin with this move. To avoid being mauled with fair simply walk away from fairs range. When there's ending lag quickly grab, or if you wanna be unorthadox upb. You can also spotdodge and then use a tilt or smash, though grabbing would be your safest, most reliable option.
When you're caught in a WoP, whistle and airdodge to get to safety. Don't attack back with aerials! He'll outrange you. If he WoPs you offstage, You can upair coming from below to get back. That's always safe.
Marth on the ledge- Marth players generally tend to use a fair from the ledge to protect themselves while they get back on. Don't stay close. Shielding, then grabbing won't work if he's behind the ledge. Just chuck purple pikmin at him to screw him up, and try to catch him with an fsmash or grab as he lands back onstage.
"Also Olimar is small so if Marth is spamming f-air then time it and run under him. I play against Marth all the time trust me it works. I know shield grabbing is hard, but when it comes down to it there are times when you can grab him. You just have to make the most out of your opportunities."
-Whodat
-Dancing Blade (sideb): This is possibly the most complicated move in the game to master (and to explain). It has multiple uses for Marth. It's great shield pressure and/or damage if he uses the green(down) portion of it. The blue(up) is great for knocking people into the air (plus it can kill), and the red will just knock you off the stage for edgeguarding opportunities. You CAN shieldgrab the entire thing if your shield is full, but don't count on it every time. Just be aware that if it isn't full, dancing blade will cut it. Dancing blade will easily cut through your pikmin as well.
Try to know it's range before hand. If you know where its hitbox is and will be after and while he's using the move, you can roll behind him and punish or you can pivot grab him. You can't attack him while he's using it. Don't retaliate. Just run and/or (if you can) shieldgrab, or pivot grab it.
-Dolphin Slash(upb): Things to know: It's great OoS (out of shield). It has invincibility frames during the first 5 frames and sends out a hitbox on the 5th. C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
It has considerable after-lag as well. When you think he'll use it, shield then punish in the air the after lag. Also, this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175891
-Fsmash: It's powerful when tippered and it's fast. However fsmash can no longer hit you on the ledge like melee. Avoid the attack when used onstage. Just shield, or spotdodge to avoid being hit then punish wih a grab or smash attack.
• How to win ?
GRAB! You must grab to win. Find openings- most of marth's fatal attacks have a decent amount of after lag. Grab then set up grab combos. Marth has no projectiles, so camp a lot. Chuck a lot of pikmin, and keep chucking them! When he's away from you there's no reason not to. Your goal is to pressure Marth into making mistakes. Then you find openings, and you punish! Marth will need to space well to touch you, so don't let him breathe!
"The key to this match up is knowing where their attacks will stop so you can be right out of range and grab them"
-Skank (Asob)
Also, keep in mind that thrown purples are unusually good at disrupting his approaching, pressuring, and stage control game in this matchup.
• Match-Up 40-60: (hard)
It's a fun matchup. It's a battle of the minds. It's all about great spacing when fighting Marth, and sadly, that's what he's good at.
He has his faults. Here's a list: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183759 :3
• Recommended stages:
There aren't really any stages that Marth isn't good at. He's one of the most versatile characters in the game. He's good on platforms, good on stages without platforms, he can maneuver around obstacles on stages such as norfair and doesn't have trouble WoP edgeguarding anyone anywhere... except maybe Metaknight. Here's a thread about Marth's good stages that I dug up: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172505
Really, just pick a stage you're comfortable with. Final destination is a good option because it's a flat stage with no platforms- Perfect for chucking pikmin.
(Special thanks to BOB SAGET! for revising this entire Marth summary for me. He wrote a large portion of it.)
• Behaviour :
There are 3 qualities that make a good Marth. A good Marth knows how to space well, pressure you with tilts, aerials, and dancing blades, and knows how to win off stage using fairs and the occasional dair.
Tippering- This is what happens when Marth hits his opponent with the tip of his sword on any sword attack. It induces more knockback and more damage. His attacks will kill much sooner.
• Her scaring moves :
-Fair: Easily Marth's best aerial. It's got range, it's disjointed, if tippered it's strong, and not it makes for a great WoP (wall of pain). He can use 2 in one short hop. If he lands a fair on you, he can usually combo it into dancing blade to rack up even more damage. Basically, his fair outclasses yours. Don't try to do the downthrow->fair combo on Marth past maybe 0-5%. If he DIs correctly, his fair will beat out your fair so you will get hit instead! He can also kill latched pikmin with this move. To avoid being mauled with fair simply walk away from fairs range. When there's ending lag quickly grab, or if you wanna be unorthadox upb. You can also spotdodge and then use a tilt or smash, though grabbing would be your safest, most reliable option.
When you're caught in a WoP, whistle and airdodge to get to safety. Don't attack back with aerials! He'll outrange you. If he WoPs you offstage, You can upair coming from below to get back. That's always safe.
Marth on the ledge- Marth players generally tend to use a fair from the ledge to protect themselves while they get back on. Don't stay close. Shielding, then grabbing won't work if he's behind the ledge. Just chuck purple pikmin at him to screw him up, and try to catch him with an fsmash or grab as he lands back onstage.
"Also Olimar is small so if Marth is spamming f-air then time it and run under him. I play against Marth all the time trust me it works. I know shield grabbing is hard, but when it comes down to it there are times when you can grab him. You just have to make the most out of your opportunities."
-Whodat
-Dancing Blade (sideb): This is possibly the most complicated move in the game to master (and to explain). It has multiple uses for Marth. It's great shield pressure and/or damage if he uses the green(down) portion of it. The blue(up) is great for knocking people into the air (plus it can kill), and the red will just knock you off the stage for edgeguarding opportunities. You CAN shieldgrab the entire thing if your shield is full, but don't count on it every time. Just be aware that if it isn't full, dancing blade will cut it. Dancing blade will easily cut through your pikmin as well.
Try to know it's range before hand. If you know where its hitbox is and will be after and while he's using the move, you can roll behind him and punish or you can pivot grab him. You can't attack him while he's using it. Don't retaliate. Just run and/or (if you can) shieldgrab, or pivot grab it.
-Dolphin Slash(upb): Things to know: It's great OoS (out of shield). It has invincibility frames during the first 5 frames and sends out a hitbox on the 5th. C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
It has considerable after-lag as well. When you think he'll use it, shield then punish in the air the after lag. Also, this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175891
-Fsmash: It's powerful when tippered and it's fast. However fsmash can no longer hit you on the ledge like melee. Avoid the attack when used onstage. Just shield, or spotdodge to avoid being hit then punish wih a grab or smash attack.
• How to win ?
GRAB! You must grab to win. Find openings- most of marth's fatal attacks have a decent amount of after lag. Grab then set up grab combos. Marth has no projectiles, so camp a lot. Chuck a lot of pikmin, and keep chucking them! When he's away from you there's no reason not to. Your goal is to pressure Marth into making mistakes. Then you find openings, and you punish! Marth will need to space well to touch you, so don't let him breathe!
"The key to this match up is knowing where their attacks will stop so you can be right out of range and grab them"
-Skank (Asob)
Also, keep in mind that thrown purples are unusually good at disrupting his approaching, pressuring, and stage control game in this matchup.
• Match-Up 40-60: (hard)
It's a fun matchup. It's a battle of the minds. It's all about great spacing when fighting Marth, and sadly, that's what he's good at.
He has his faults. Here's a list: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183759 :3
• Recommended stages:
There aren't really any stages that Marth isn't good at. He's one of the most versatile characters in the game. He's good on platforms, good on stages without platforms, he can maneuver around obstacles on stages such as norfair and doesn't have trouble WoP edgeguarding anyone anywhere... except maybe Metaknight. Here's a thread about Marth's good stages that I dug up: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172505
Really, just pick a stage you're comfortable with. Final destination is a good option because it's a flat stage with no platforms- Perfect for chucking pikmin.
Jane
Smash Hero
Nice bob! Yaaay! :D
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
It's a pretty old summary. Maybe someone should revise it.
I don't think anyone knows every matchup.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
I'm a little iffy on Dite doing the snake writeup lol if only because we really don't know much about him, or his competition.
but i dunno
but i dunno
Geddan
Smash Ace
I think icy should do the snake mu. Dite can always do his as well, I'm personally interested in seeing how it turns out.
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
DITE should do the Fox and R.O.B. matchups.
Noa.
Smash Master
Might as well have him do it. If it's wrong we'll correct.
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
THE FOLLOWING PEOPLE STILL NEED TO DO THEIR SUMMARIES (caps):
Diddy Kong: RichBrown
Fox: Fino
R.O.B.: Fino
Ice Climbers: PS
Luigi: PS
Kirby: Hilt
Lucas: Denti
Wolf: Dabuz
Olimar: Weruop
G&W: Weruop
Snake: IcyLight
Yoshi: IcyLight
Set me to "ignore" now because I'm going to start riding the hell out of you guys in a little while since Zori seems unwilling to do it (let's say a week and a half).
1. Zori, update the OP with dabuz's MK writeup, please.
2. Hilt, something is better than nothing on the Kirby matchup. You can always update it when you play him more.
Diddy Kong: RichBrown
Fox: Fino
R.O.B.: Fino
Ice Climbers: PS
Luigi: PS
Kirby: Hilt
Lucas: Denti
Wolf: Dabuz
Olimar: Weruop
G&W: Weruop
Snake: IcyLight
Yoshi: IcyLight
Set me to "ignore" now because I'm going to start riding the hell out of you guys in a little while since Zori seems unwilling to do it (let's say a week and a half).
1. Zori, update the OP with dabuz's MK writeup, please.
2. Hilt, something is better than nothing on the Kirby matchup. You can always update it when you play him more.
Geddan
Smash Ace
i don't think icy or weruop are going to be posting again any time soon. i don't know where fino is in terms of writeup progress, and some one would have to post them for him. dabuz.... logic, i haven't seen him post much on here lately, same goes for rich.
denti and hilt...... NO EXCUSES
in the mean time have dite write everything if he wants to, he might be some sort of secret oli genius.
denti and hilt...... NO EXCUSES
in the mean time have dite write everything if he wants to, he might be some sort of secret oli genius.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
update it with my marth guide!
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
all top olimars are lazy :3 (unless dite somehow manages to break that rule xD)
I appreciate your ennobling comment even though I have yet to procure any tournament results. From my understanding, composing an essay on a match-up would be ill taken. Both Zori, in a private message, and Hilt question the foundation of my deductions as they apply competitive play. This has persuaded me to continue posting as I have. Perhaps in the future I will accept the exposition challenge again.
I apologize for the inconvenience.
Geddan
Smash Ace
if you know the match-ups, you should write them.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
let me put it this way...write a matchup and i will tell you if it can be applied to high level tourney play
i have a feeling you are better and know a lot that you aren't letting us in on
Noa.
Smash Master
I agree with Dabuz. If it's wrong we will discard it.
Geddan
Smash Ace
discard sounds a bit harsh.. maybe correct it?
Noa.
Smash Master
But I am a very harsh person.
Nah, just depends how bad it is. It will probably be good.
Nah, just depends how bad it is. It will probably be good.
Denti
Smash Master
i can write a luigi MU summary is ya'll need it XD
but other than that i'll take a super nap.
but other than that i'll take a super nap.
Noa.
Smash Master
Do it Denti. I really don't mind who writes matchup analyses myself. As long as they're well done.
Denti
Smash Master
i've beaten every luigi i've met. i've made sure i've gottin a MM or a tourney match or a ladder match out of them. I do this because I've never seen luigi adv and i always hafta prove to myself that ya'll arent johning me because i generally 2 stock. i'd need more demand tho.. i don't wana put serious work into completely destroying the luigi MU for our favor if no one is really guna use it. im serious about this MU being oli adv tho.. 2 stocked big lou XD and 3 stocked DS who apparently almost beats dabuz every time XD
edit: okay i lied, chic brought me down to my last stock in 1 round on his CP. XD
edit: okay i lied, chic brought me down to my last stock in 1 round on his CP. XD
Geddan
Smash Ace
sure? i have no weegees in my area, but in the case that someone decides to pick him up, it would be really beneficial to both myself and to the entire oli community if you were to write a guide with the given credentials that you have.
Denti
Smash Master
lol some people don't think i'm credable. so idk.. XD I'll think about it.
Problem:let me put it this way...write a match-up and i will tell you if it can be applied to high level tourney play
i have a feeling you are better and know a lot that you aren't letting us in on
Whether or not to produce a match-up composition.
Assessment:
=*= Inputting time into something with a chance of failure would be unfortunate.
===*= Time is valuable.
=*= From reading information given by previous contributors, it appears that the objective is to lead players into epiphanies on how to play match-ups.
===*= The inspiration comes from elusively obvious little nuggets of experience, such as Olimar's jab clanks / beats Snake's forward-tilt, furnished by those who can prove qualification.
=*= Qualification nor experience cannot be determined for the time being.
Solution:
While producing a write-up may serve as a temporary convenience to the forums, the risk of failure and squandered effort would be a frivolous use of time. In an effort to maximize relevant data productivity, continuing to post in response to others seems to be logical and most beneficial.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
R U a ****ing robot? No joke?
He just types the way I think. No biggie.
Denti
Smash Master
he's a program in your head?
Geddan
Smash Ace
He's a remote entity, brought to life on the boards through a manifestation of the current meta-game.
Let's interview him! :D
Let's interview him! :D
Denti
Smash Master
I believe it
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
DS? and if your so confident make the matchup NOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!