The Heavenly Scriptures:A Pit Q&A thread!

[fUddO]

That debate about Fox is over! Pit wins, end of story:
Earth vs Yui 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZfYW3zuUL0
Earth vs Yui 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JADjip1M0Q

Nice Pit vs MK:
Earth vs Otori: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYKLd2BcLQQ

vs. Fox: Campy Fox looks to gain more on FD than we do. Better than fighting on Halberd though. Definitely looks like it's in Pit's favour. Earth needs more Utilt! Earth seems to play a very aerial Pit, but in this MU it looks like mixing it up a bit has potential.

vs. MK: Those SH mindgames were so sexy. Fsmash to punish SL was pretty awesome too. I'm not sold on the Bair punish (of SL) though. Doesn't look too safe, and he got punished for it.

I'm really liking Earth's style. I definitely am going to steal some of that stuff. The SH --> Bair/Fsmash/grab looked sooo good.

 

[Abel1994]

ima gtfo and come to your house and murder you tonight.

g2g buy plane ticket to dacula ga.

I got kuro as my body gaurd HOE!

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

just dont get usmashed esca jeez

 

[Abel1994]

fox Usmash=Snake Utilt.


For is it strounger?

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

its stronger, less range though i bet, then again fox can dash with it

 

[Esca]

just dont get usmashed esca jeez

its so hard, razer's fox is by far the best fox ive ever played.

you cant smash in the mu or you get usmashed :/

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I haven't seen it, I hope there are some videos, but I swear fox loses to shield. We can just wait in our shield and punish whatever he does.

Edit:
On another note, what do you guys think our best punishers are ?

My opinion:

Dash attack on moves that our opponent used good spacing for or moves that pushes us far away while in shield.

Jab combo, dsmash, grabbing, usmash oos (no specific order) for moves that weren't spaced properly and our opponent is right next to us.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

this^^. pit forces fox to approach if played right in the MU, and fox can't do **** against shield. we can punish every move he has except jab (to an extent).

@luckay, if you smash DI up and behind people or to where your back is facing them when they hit you and then buffer bair that is a great punish move. also i would add dair, dtilt, and utilt as these all set up juggles.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

its so hard, razer's fox is by far the best fox ive ever played.

you cant smash in the mu or you get usmashed :/

I'm sure, but you have to keep in consideration that Razer is probably a better player. Matchups don't count if one player has more skill than another because they are supposed to be based off equal level.

I haven't seen it, I hope there are some videos, but I swear fox loses to shield. We can just wait in our shield and punish whatever he does.

Edit:
On another note, what do you guys think our best punishers are ?

My opinion:

Dash attack on moves that our opponent used good spacing for or moves that pushes us far away while in shield.

Jab combo, dsmash, grabbing, usmash oos (no specific order) for moves that weren't spaced properly and our opponent is right next to us.

Fsmash is by far the best-it's Pit's most damaging, but it's hard to hit with even w/ its speed, but finding more ways to use this move as near guaranteed punish OOS using frame-data and experience which is something that we need to look into to.

Also, when you say punishers...do you mean OOS? Or to knock opponent's back in the air?

I think dash attack is good for knocking opponents back in the air after you follow their DI. I remember playing my friend last week and all I did was dashattack when he was in the landing and I connected over 5 consecutive dash attacks. I think it has something to do w/ the 2 frames of landing lag, plus the range which makes this an underused move.

 

[Kuro~]

I'm sure, but you have to keep in consideration that Razer is probably a better player. Matchups don't count if one player has more skill than another because they are supposed to be based off equal level.



Fsmash is by far the best-it's Pit's most damaging, but it's hard to hit with even w/ its speed, but finding more ways to use this move as near guaranteed punish OOS using frame-data and experience which is something that we need to look into to.

Also, when you say punishers...do you mean OOS? Or to knock opponent's back in the air?

I think dash attack is good for knocking opponents back in the air after you follow their DI. I remember playing my friend last week and all I did was dashattack when he was in the landing and I connected over 5 consecutive dash attacks. I think it has something to do w/ the 2 frames of landing lag, plus the range which makes this an underused move.

NO fsmash shouldn't be used as your punisher in 90% of all matchups no matter what. End of story. No exceptions unless it will kill.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

That's why I didn't include fsmash.

@ maharba I use that method to get a bair in when DIing against multi hit moves

@gadiel by oos I mean out of shield. If someone attacks our shield what is our best option. That isnt the only way to punish I know, but that is what I'm talking about. Punishing landing isn't what I'm talking about, but dash attack dtilt and utilt are good for that as well.

 

[Pitzer]

Wow, at people saying F_smash is better. Listen the best Smash OoS, is either Up-smash if they're above you or D-smash if they're near you. D-smash comes out faster than F-smash plus you want to save your f-smash for later. Best Moves in General OoS are, Up-Smash, Uptilt, D-smash, Full Hop Dair, Grab, Turn around, and Jab. F-Smash OoS is only for killing.

 

[fUddO]

Fsmash OoS is ok until about 60-70% and after ~120% I'd say. Problem with Dsmash is if you don't know frame data, or miss-space it, you get punished hard.

 

[Kuro~]

As i've said b4 and this makes it so its not mu specific b4 50ish and after 100ish. The rest just goes off knowledge of kill %

 

[Esca]

I'm sure, but you have to keep in consideration that Razer is probably a better player. Matchups don't count if one player has more skill than another because they are supposed to be based off equal level.

But I've beaten his Fox with Pit every time before this..

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Nah, I think you guys have it wrong. It's not about KOing because that can come through patience. F-smash is Pit's best damaging move-19% and if you want to trade that for a d-smash-(10-12%) then be my guest. To each his own I guess, but since that move is hard to hit w/ in the 1st place, anytime you can get one in, then do it!

@ Esca -maybe he "downloaded" your style since you've been playing him for a while. Since you've been winning, you probably haven't had to change it up much, so he adapted in your last match and you can to when you play him next time.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

also, i forgot to say this in the innovative idea part where i was talking true combos, but since we are talking dsmash, i've gotta say this.

the back hit of dsmash combos into bair at "near the edge" kill percents on midweight and lightweight characters and can get the kill on unsuspecting heavyweights. if you predict their roll behind you this is in all technicalit a great punish as it is a free stock basically. if not it's damage out the ***.

and yes, wat kuro said about fsmash % usage is pretty acurate. i would go as to say below 50ish over 120ish instead as that is when it becomes hard to survive even with great DI. honestly when you think about it tho, if you just wait to go for the kill until they are at 150ish%, the majority of pit's kill options are unleashed as you then have bair, glair, fsmash, dash attack, dsmash, ftilt, and dair on a lot of the cast. just for referance, im not sure wat the order is i just know bair da bess.

 

[Kuro~]

Nah, I think you guys have it wrong. It's not about KOing because that can come through patience. F-smash is Pit's best damaging move-19% and if you want to trade that for a d-smash-(10-12%) then be my guest. To each his own I guess, but since that move is hard to hit w/ in the 1st place, anytime you can get one in, then do it!

@ Esca -maybe he "downloaded" your style since you've been playing him for a while. Since you've been winning, you probably haven't had to change it up much, so he adapted in your last match and you can to when you play him next time.

To each his own i suppose. One thing i've started doing recently that is a bit pessimistic but works really well for me is if i get the first kill i start using fsmash as my punisher instead cuz realistically im gonna die again b4 i kill them so idc if it stales or not. By the time im dead they are usually at ~80%+ which makes things easy for me.

Also, gadiel i'm sorry but there are certain mu where YOU HAVE TO KEEP FSMASH FRESH 100%

Mk
Pikachu
Diddy
marth
GaW
Lucario

Just for the A and B tiers.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

not so much diddy or marth. plenty of other options against those 2 that are viable. fsmash is just really convienient but i find getting them with bair and dash attack is actually easier due to how those characters are played

 

[Kuro~]

Does any1 know if you can jump cancel a dsmash?

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

No, only up b and usmash.

That's also a crucial fresh fsmash (freshsmash lol) list right there. I feel like if you were to order it then it would go

Lucario
Mk
GaW
Diddy
Pikachu/Marth

 

[Esca]

Gadiel, I think it was how good his Fox is. Hopefully replays will be put up. The way his Fox plays is beyond me, it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO precise, Fox and Snake fit well together.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

so i was watching one of my old matches for nastalgia's sake, and i came across something i never noticed as i was scrubby at the time and it never really occurred to me that this part of the match is really weird. anyways i have a question that needs your guys observation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzMORgis53Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=130s

DID PIT'S DAIR JUST ****ING SPIKE D12 OR WAT THE **** HAPPENED?! IS THAT SDI OR IS THAT SOME INCREDIBLY SPECIFIC *** SPIKE BOX LIKE DTILT?!

i can't believe i didn't notice this way back when i first joined that this could be something worth looking into. and i honestly can't tell what the hell happened right there. thing is that it just doesn't look like SDI but then again i've always know pit's dair not to spike at all. wat do you guys think this is? wat if it is a spike box? or is it just SDI? can any1 else tell what happened?

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Super crap DI after he buffered a jump.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Can someone test this?

Ok, so we can grab release MK and KO him w/ a dash attack if he air releases right?

Can we use the fast wing movement tech on the ground and hit him w/ a grounded bair?

 

[Pitzer]

No. lol. Why even bother with that.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

No. lol. Why even bother with that.

Why not? It may give us an edge vs MK, and we might be able to grab release, bair KO other chars. I don't even think Pit's grab releases have been explored. Who knows what else we might learn from trying this?

Pit boards will never improve collectively if we have mindsets like that Pitzer.

 

[Xcallion]

Although i agree with pitzer about that wingdash>grounded bair probably not working, i also agree that every possibility needs to be explored. I did some experiments with GR>d-tilt a while back and i got negative results. Might as well see if there are any GR shennanigens i missed.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Definitely not Gadiel. Way to many frames to jump>activate woi>dash with it>finally bair. You think METAKNIGHT will be vulnerable throughout that whole time interval? Just dash then dash attack.

 

[Spam]

SO I just chose a char other than Pit and notice my offstage skills SUCK compared to pit and I never get my recovery down because im to used to just take my time and fly everywhere. Fox looks cool and all and the bigginst mistake ive done in brawl was trying to main wolf (I have like a 30% chance of having a good recovery and others I die )

I want to second these char.
Donkey kong
Falco
Shiek
Marth
Link (to late for that cuz his recovery is UGH EWW WTF)


But yea now Im thinking of SHiek then Marth the most because I saw this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-f8314pGC8

It reminds me of melee and I really like how those 2 played each char :D

Last comment.
THEIR SEXY!

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

You don't give up do you abel.

 

[Pitzer]

You still gotta learn you characters Limit's. By the time you tried to Jump, Up-b mk is already coming down from the peak of his release.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Although i agree with pitzer about that wingdash>grounded bair probably not working, i also agree that every possibility needs to be explored. I did some experiments with GR>d-tilt a while back and i got negative results. Might as well see if there are any GR shennanigens i missed.

then kuro pointed out that it works really well if you tilt down just enough to make the move come out but not enough to crouch. well, he referanced ravyn's work

 

[Xcallion]

...forgot about that

 

[Spam]

My pit sucks.
I still need to play X to see which of our Pit sucks more!

 

[Xcallion]

You're better, abel. Just from watching vids i can clearly see that.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

xcallion, i agree that we need to explore pit's grab release. particularly, the buffered pivot grab out of grounded grab release as while our normal grab range is meh, our pivot grab is epic win comparable to marth's in range.

also, does any1 know if we buffer WOI out of some1 aerial releasing from our grab if they keep going away or not? if it stops them then on MK gr>grounded WOI>pivot lunge bair is plausible. seriously doubt this myself but it never hurts to find out

also, not neccessarily as a guarenteed hit on people, but fast ground WOI > semi rise>wing lunge fair is a possible option out of grab release as pit's fair is almost as long as marth's and marth can get a guarenteed non-tipper fair grab release on mk as well as tipper so with the range of our fair it's worth looking into as a mix up if anything. not even talking MK really i just mean in general

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

one thing i would like to point out is that grounded grab release into d-smash can be sheilded sometimes but this works at any percent and is great for the suprise kill on almost every character so buffer that shiz by pummeling with cstick down and most people can't do anything but get pwned

Edit: sorry about double post

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Us letting go in an aerial release has frames too. Any character besides wario would already be too far away for a buffered woi to catch them with it's wind. So that's useless since we can just jump and fair wario anyway.

I'm also sure if most characters DI away our dsmash wont reach them from a ground release. Maybe if we add a small step, but highly unlikely.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well it works on TL i know this from testing it out last time i played PJ. also the fact that it comes out as fast as jab makes it worth trying. oh and thx for pointing out the fail point of the WOI catch thing. if i had a wii i could actually try this stuff out and then post or not post but until that point in time i have to lay it all out on the table.