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The habits of a highly effective luigi. :recently updated:

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
Alright, so you're like most people, in that more often than not you don't have an opponent ready to brawl. Well, you're not completely out of luck, there are still some things you can do to improve your luigi game, even without competition.

Of course, live matches are the best way to improve your game. And of course, online (especially with luigi) is godawful. But solo-smashing is not completely without merit. Fire up a lv3 cpu and beat the tar out of them, but remember, you're not here to kill cpus, you're here to build good habits.

What's most important is to remember that you're not fighting to win, you're fighting to experiment. Think of it as a moving punching bag. I'll outline here some strategies to improve your overall muscle memory and develop good habits.

I would recommend not using stock survival rules. This seems to reinforce the competitive nature of the fight. You need to keep in mind here that winning isn't the goal, so losing a stock is meaningless. Set up a timer (I put it on infinite) and just keep messing around until you're bored with that character or you're bored with it altogether lol. Think of it as training mode with move degradation.

These are some examples of things to focus on while fighting mindless opponents.

Correct recovery methods. IE airdodge->missile->jump->downb->upb.
In a match "You Must Recover!", so it's important to be completely comfortable getting back onto the stage. Experiment with different recovery options. Remember, staying alive here isn't important, but finding a new way to live longer is a great thing to do. Switch it up, know what all your moves do and how they can connect, so when you play a human, they won't see you coming.


Fastfall your shorthops.
It leaves you less vulnerable, and allows you to act more quickly.

Airdodge your landings This is a method alot of good luigis use. Boss does it constantly, and the way I see it, emulating boss can't be a bad thing. It'll screw up your game initially, but thats ok, get used to it and you'll see luigi getting faster. This provides you the option of FFAD to another SH aerial, instead of floating a bit and using your second jump. Options are never bad.

Learning to do this with a static opponent in training mode is a good idea. Polishing that on a moving target in a fluid fight situation should come afterwards, thats what low lvl cpus are for.

Mix up your jab game Jab game is considered by some to be luigi's most important skill. If not that, it's at least his best option on the ground. Jabbing, then crouching makes your next move come out faster. Get used to jabbing once and moving into another move. Hell, get used to jabbing. Once again, this opens up options.
Some things you might do out of a jab include, grab, shoryuken, dtilt, fsmash, or another jab. For a more complete synopsis of a jab game, and luigi's attack options go here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180142


DI
DI might be the most important thing to learn in smash, it keeps you alive longer. However, it's not something you can really think about when it's happening. To start out I would suggest going to slow brawl and setting 1-2 lv9 cpus (lower levels don't attack enough) and just let them beat you up. DI correctly when they attack you, and don't worry about anything else. When you're comfortable enough in that, go to regular speed. Just make sure you do this instinctively.

Pile on the damage during grabs. It's free damage, yo. When you grab someone, figure out how many hits you can get at each %, and get in the habit of getting a couple hits before you throw. Each does 3%. Knowing how much leeway you have during a grab is a useful piece of knowlege.

Use the right aerial! At low %, fair and uair are great combo starters. Near the ledge, back air puts your opponent where you want them. A good thing to think about is what aerial to use out of your dthrow. At low % uair is great at leading into combos. At %s above ~120, a dthrow can be a killer if you remember to chase them up and throw out a nair.

Use the right killing move Luigi has lots of options when it comes to KOs, however many of them kick in at different times. It's important to know what moves kill when. Your options begin at 50% (yowza) and go on in a stepwise fashion all the way up to 200. Getting a good feel of what your easiest KO is at any percent is important. Going for a shoryuken when your opponent is already to 85% is often inefficient, since a up-angled-fsmash will kill most people at that stage, and is generally easier to pull off. This process continues until about 230, which is where a uair or fair will kill anyone, which are generally the easiest moves of all to land.

Get your fireball on. Fireballs are easy to overlook, since projectiles aren't the basis of luigi's game. It's important to know, however, what your fireballs are capable of. Any time your combo gets away from you, a fireball can tack on a bit of damage. When you can't reliably approach, getting into fireball range and making your opponent uncomfortable is a good option. They're also a powerful defensive tool.
Check out this thread for great fireball ideas. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175919&highlight=fireball

Up-angle your fsmash. This should be as natural as breathing. It kills quicker, and comes out faster.

Sweetspot that edge. The green rocket sweetspots. Learn it, love it, make it muscle memory. The spot is just a bit under the ledge.

Grab the edge. When you knock your opponent offstage, hanging off the ledge makes a great neutral state for a waiting luigi. Particularly because it leads easily into a bair wop. On top of that, ledgedrop->FJP is a very quick hog. One of the quickest sweet spotting upbs in the game.

Follow them off the edge every time. When you're fighting a computer, your stock is fairly unimportant. Following a knocked-off opponent can't hurt you, and is good practice. Luigi's recovery is very good, and you can often score an easy KO when your opponent is trying to recover. Get used to this.

Try to spike on EVERY dair. Any time you can, try that dair spike. The more you try it, the better you'll get, the better you get, the more useful it is.

Shield is your neutral state When you're not doing anything, you might as well have your guard up. This isn't terribly practical in an actual match, but any time you aren't doing anything in an actual match, and you don't need your shield up, you'll have plenty of time to make that decision consciously. This will help the "don't get hit" concept. If you're not attacking, and not pursuing, making it a habit of hitting L (or R in my case) is a good thing. It'll reinforce your SHAD, and it will in effect auto-tech your landings.
If your shield breaks in training, so what? If your finger is that much more itchy to block, you come out on top.

Shield cancel your dashes Even when you don't need to, hitting shield instead of simply stopping running is a good habit. Luigi slides alot, and the end of a dash, just sliding, is a vulnerable state. Shield canceling helps to alleviate this.

Other ideas and methods.

On Vids. Watching videos of luigis better than you is a great way to evaluate the game. However, just sitting and watching a match doesn't do much for you, that's just entertainment. Watching a good match multiple times is a good way to get out of it what it has to offer. I like to, on the first viewing, just watch the non-luigi character. Do what you can to see what it is they're doing, what they're trying to do, and what their strategies are. This is practice for reading your opponent in a real match. Once you have a good idea of how the opponent fights, watch the luigi player, but do it in the context of the situation. OK, so that toon link likes to SH into a zair, watch for that, when it happens how does the wigi react? Did his reaction work? If so, why? Keep these questions in your mind. Don't just watch a fight, analyze the fight.
Another thing I like to do is watch a fight I haven't yet seen with a controller in my hand. I'm not sure if it helps or not, but play-fighting a real human seems like a good idea to me. This, though, is inherently flawed just like everything else I talk about, because its not a 1v1 fight, and they're not reacting to you as you react to them. Keep this in mind.

Online Play Is also useful, and also flawed. The Idea here is, again, to experiment. How do people react to your moves. What do people like to do, how do they expect you to act? Learn to read people, and what they like to do.


None of the above listed ideas are ideal to your improvement. The best thing you can do to improve your game is to play people, alot of people, all the time. However, this is a set of ideas on how you might still be able to improve your game when you have nobody to play. The most important thing I would like people to take away with this is how to be in the proper mindset when fighting fake opponents, to actually get better. You're not here to win, you're here to experiment. **** around, have fun, do things you normally wouldn't do. Get used to everything, anything, and every possible situation. Figure out exactly what luigi can do, and what he can't do. While you're doing this, keep doing the little things that reinforce good habits. When luigi isn't a game character, but instead just an extension of your fingers, thats when you win.

I want to make sure that you know, that I know, I'm not the best luigi player here. If you think you're probably better than I am, you probably are. However I feel like my reasoning is sound, and I know for a fact good habits promote good play. That said, I WANT YOUR INPUT! This is by no means comprehensive, and some things in here are complete horse****. Which are they? Please let me know, if not for the community, then for me lol. I want to know everything and this game isn't an exception to that. Once I do though, I'll let everyone in on the secret

Thanks!
 

chic

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
995
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toad town, mushroom kingdom
jab game imo is probably the best thing to use... if you use the cancel thing its even better!!
!
When I knock the enemy off the stage and they are floating down to get back on and are close to landing i sometimes do a short hop + fast fall which makes them air dodge because they think im gonna attack them and then I hit em with a up smash after the air dodge. that really throws em off :D ... that wasn't worded very good but i hope you understand what i mean :)
 

LuigiKing

Smash Lord
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Feb 27, 2008
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A good Luigi already knows these things ^_^ Still a useful thread though, people do forget the basics a lot of the time. With Luigi you really have to know how to use the tornado effectively, tornado and fireballs.... Ooo, and his amazing bair.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
A good Luigi already knows these things ^_^ Still a useful thread though, people do forget the basics a lot of the time. With Luigi you really have to know how to use the tornado effectively, tornado and fireballs.... Ooo, and his amazing bair.
luigi is all about the fundamentals...we don't have anything really fancy (shoryuken is just another thing for weegee...big deal xD).

But yeah you got the other big stuff down, thought i'll add to clarify that a good luigi is conscious of his enemy's location and uses the right aerial in any given situation. (Some guys get bair happy).
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
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Louisville Ky.
Well of course a good luigi already has these habits. Thats the idea anyway. And I'm not really talking about strategies or techs or whatever, but just, things you tend to do by reflex. The fireballs are a good example.
 

PrinceMarthX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
258
If your opponent is slightly behind you, up smash is far beter than down smash. This may seem like common sense but I see a lot of people do down smash instead. Up smash has a bit more range than the animation lets on. It strikes behind you far quicker than down smash and is better at killing.

If you get into a spotdodge battle (Next to your opponent and you keep spotdodging each other's attacks) use up angled forward smashes. It has significantly less cool down.
 

Faithkeeper

Smash Lord
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I naturally up angle my fsmashes. If i'm trying to get a bit more range, i have to think about not tilting them. ... (Is that what you were talking about?)
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
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Do you guys use the ftilt at high percentages or just as the combo starter?
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
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Hooray! My post is taking off!

I'll update with the new suggestions soon, until then, keep it coming!

I'll also troll some luigi vids to see what common threads I can find.
 

PrinceMarthX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
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If your opponent manages to survive to 130% then up tilt becomes a good KO move. Much faster than up smash.
 

hippiedude92

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Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
Word. Agreed with PrinceMarth. Uptilt acts as a Nair but kills abit higher %s than Nair though. Another good habit is throwing those really good spaced Bairs. You don't know how much that helps your game.

edit : another one is green missling aiming for the sweetspot edge
 

cmpr94x

Smash Lord
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Wait... Are you serious? Up tilt can be used a s a kill move? This is a really nice thread. I have not come over to this section of the boards so... I learned some new things.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
739
Wait... Are you serious? Up tilt can be used a s a kill move? This is a really nice thread. I have not come over to this section of the boards so... I learned some new things.
Yep, because by the time the enemy is in killing %'s your utilt should already be charged up again.
 

elheber

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Oh yes, nAir ***** at high percentages.

When you're at low %, and the opponent at high % (perhaps you just got knocked out), doing an nAir while they try to combo you can quickly and effortlessly even up the playing field.
 

PrinceMarthX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
258
Luigi's top 7 killing moves that don't require a charge.

1. fire jump punch
2. forward smash tilted up
3. up smash
4. neutral air
5. down smash
6. up tilt
7. back throw

If your opponent has 100%+ damage and they create an opening, instead of trying to fire jump punch, use a up angled forward smash. Attempting to FJP at that percentage is an unnecessary risk. If your forward smash is fresh, it should kill them easily. If you attempt FJP and miss you could be punished badly for it. Always be aware of what percentage your opponent is at. The higher precentage, the less risks you have to take to kill.
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
DownSmash is rarely a killing move for me, but maybe thats how i play.
 

Razz113

Smash Cadet
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Not gonna lie ive been away for a while... busy with work family and ****, but ive been back to smash boards for a coupledays and im seriously in love with this thread its very active people whoa re good being reminded new wigi's learning new things and how to improve. Just awesome guys simply awesome. Luigi is easily becoming very very popular even if people dont main him just by reading this post they would want to play around with him. VERY Good Everyone very good.
 

LuigiKing

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Razz don't be so cynicle (spelling?). Seriously, the Luigi boards are still going to be dead, no matter what we do here really. There are simply not enough people repping him to make any noticeable changes. That doesn't mean we can't dink around and casually talk about Luigi, since that is about all we can do at this point. And this thread is sort of interesting, it doesn't bring anything new to the table, but hey, it may perhaps get some people thinking...
 

hippiedude92

Smash Hero
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Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
Heh. No one has never mentioned this and this should be Melee sh*t!. Out of shield shoryuken. You don't know how wonders this move works as. Also another good habit is Dthrow (2x-4x) at 0%. People tend to DI like pros so, following their DI and following up with a Dthrow is nice.
 

Razz113

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Razz don't be so cynicle (spelling?). Seriously, the Luigi boards are still going to be dead, no matter what we do here really. There are simply not enough people repping him to make any noticeable changes. That doesn't mean we can't dink around and casually talk about Luigi, since that is about all we can do at this point. And this thread is sort of interesting, it doesn't bring anything new to the table, but hey, it may perhaps get some people thinking...
Yes luigi king you do say that, but i already have proof of the wigi boards attracting new people, just at the college i go to there are so many people i talk to that have started playing wigi, because of thsi board i cna easily count 20-25 people who have fallen in love with luigi not as a main but as a character they would like to play with. The Luigi boards may not be as active as others, but activity doesnt mean they aren't being read by people whoa re interested.
 

Karptroopa

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Sep 9, 2008
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Whenever I need to recover, I usually use a pattern like Jump - Airdodge - Side B...
and then, I mix it up a little.

If someone's edge hogging, and I'm above the edge of the stage, then I either use Green Missile to get on the stage (if I'm not in danger from something else, I charge it and end up a bit away from the edge), and then go ahead fighting. Or, I use the SJP (not the fire one) to quickly get him off, and then hope I grab the edge.

If I'm directly below the edge hogger, I make good use of Luigi Cyclone (flying variation) and knock him off and grab the stage. Not to mention, I get a couple hits at the same time.
 

yungunr2

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Whenever I need to recover, I usually use a pattern like Jump - Airdodge - Side B...
and then, I mix it up a little.

If someone's edge hogging, and I'm above the edge of the stage, then I either use Green Missile to get on the stage (if I'm not in danger from something else, I charge it and end up a bit away from the edge), and then go ahead fighting. Or, I use the SJP (not the fire one) to quickly get him off, and then hope I grab the edge.

If I'm directly below the edge hogger, I make good use of Luigi Cyclone (flying variation) and knock him off and grab the stage. Not to mention, I get a couple hits at the same time.
To sum it all up, mindgames when recovering.:chuckle:
 

Karptroopa

Smash Apprentice
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Exactly. Unless you want to be read like a book, you need to be oh so slightly unpredictable, at the very least.

Of course, it's better to just continuously mix up some parts of your fighting style. :grin:
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
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Apr 22, 2008
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Louisville Ky.
Newly updated, and more intelligent than before.

This thread isn't going away, because I won't let it. lol. If you don't like it, toooooo bad.

Acutally, if you don't like it tell me, and I'll make it better any way you want. You know more than I do, I'm sure of it, and I'd like to change that :chuckle:

ALSO: any help on how to make this big ugly wall of text look and read better is much appreciated. Either here in this thread or a PM to me. Specifically, how do I change the tiltle? WTF format?
 

LuigiKing

Smash Lord
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Make sure to incorporate a good out of shield game, because if anyone has a great one, its weegee. Watch their dash attacks very, very carefully. When you know one is coming, get ready to up be as soon as you powershield. Thats how I've beat every single MK I go against, because one dash attack = kill at 40%. Make sure to incorporate up smash out of shield, if you're facing away and they approach you from the air, begin an up smash immediately out of shield, it has huge KO potential and not much lag before the hitbox from behind comes out.

Ftilt is absolutely amazing as far as finishing mini combos goes. If you've seen any of my vids I abuse this move to no end. Any time you hit with an aerial at low percents while your opponent is on the ground, its a free Ftilt, which has just enough stun to lead into a tornado follow up. Play smart, don't throw free % away, and like someone said, make sure to torture on every grab, because Luigi's does 3% compared to the common 1/2%.
 

BSP

Smash Legend
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May 23, 2009
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Crouch cancelling jab 1 does add more time than just waiting till the natural combo input time is done right? I'd rather jab, look at Luigi, and then go for my next action.
 
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