The Great AT Debate Thread

[Lezard]

Advance technique is advance because it applicability is limited, which means the less its been use the more beneficial it is

 

[Coffee™]

Advance technique is advance because it applicability is limited, which means the less its been use the more beneficial it is

That doesn't even make sense. Have you seen Snake's Motor Slide?

 

[shinyspoon42]

Respond to my post please?

an advanced technique is a technique beyond the basic abilities that all characters have, and work off and advance said basic abilities. For example, pits basic up-B can be advanced off by canceling it to wing dash, or using it then using wing refresh as an extension of the move, and altering its ability after ending. Or with pits arrows, using the ability to manipulate your arrows trajectory in order to loop your arrows, and possibly looping several arrows at once.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Respond to my post please?

an advanced technique is a technique beyond the basic abilities that all characters have, and work off and advance said basic abilities. For example, pits basic up-B can be advanced off by canceling it to wing dash, or using it then using wing refresh as an extension of the move, and altering its ability after ending. Or with pits arrows, using the ability to manipulate your arrows trajectory in order to loop your arrows, and possibly looping several arrows at once.

good definition of an AT

uhm youre analysis is pretty much what i believe, just some people dont agree that arrow looping is ever worth it because it takes too long to preform, which i disagree with, alot

wingdashing is aslso useful becasue you canbe running at your opponent and you know hes gonna attempt and attack so you wingdash back, and still come out in a dash at your opponent jsut slightly later, kinda like a faster roll... normally in these cases i just power shield the attack though and slide into them with a grab, but thats just me, maybe some people prefer that dash attack instead, but yea you pretty much broke down the AT's exactly as i see them


could anyone get some frame data on exactly how many frames it takes to loop an arrow? would be very helpful.

 

[demonictoonlink]

lol at AT versus applicability.
Snake disagrees ^^

 

[Lezard]

That doesn't even make sense. Have you seen Snake's Motor Slide?

My statement was referring to Pit alone, however for some character its vice versa meaning the applicability of an advance technique can be apply more than a basic technique which in that case, the less basic the more beneficial it is.

A thing only can be seen as limited went compare to something else, which, here i am reffering to the limited amount applicabilty of WINGDASH and Arrow loop in compare to pits basic technique



So this statement emanate from my perception of seeing every character as an idea and every character is different which mean every ideas is diffirent so my understanding of "Pit's Advance technique is advance because it applicability is limited, which means the less its been use the more beneficial it is" so has a Pit user one should be focusing on basic, yes?


So if, a statement like this had being taken seriously at the beginning we could have benefit more just like how Masashi did and thats the reason why i made that statement

Pit's Advance technique is advance because it applicability is limited, which means the less its been use the more beneficial it is this statement should be at the top of "the Ultimate Pit Guide" well thats my opinion

 

[teh_pwns_the]

nah bro thas not what advanced means at all, advanced technique was defined by shinyspoon fairly well, so go check it, cause sorry but tht def you have lezard is wrong

 

[Phaigne]

According to the Smash Lab, an AT is a technique that Nintendo has not told us how to do. This is a very comprehensive term and includes many, many things. The actual limit of application makes little difference.

 

[Lezard]

According to the Smash Lab, an AT is a technique that Nintendo has not told us how to do. This is a very comprehensive term and includes many, many things. The actual limit of application makes little difference.

Yup, this is true @ Teh pawn the, and i wasn't giving a definition of AT in general, i was remarking on the perception of
Pit's AT, my statement was just a mindset we should have went using Pit

 

[shinyspoon42]

My statement was referring to Pit alone, however for some character its vice versa meaning the applicability of an advance technique can be apply more than a basic technique which in that case, the less basic the more beneficial it is.

Your statement then is false when applied to others, and does not define the same category of advanced techniques, and other characters have advanced techniques. Thus, you cannot say your definition is correct when it doesn't work when applied. Hope that clears this up as to why people find you wrong. Well, that and the fact that your statement is false even when applied to pit.

A thing only can be seen as limited went compare to something else, which, here i am reffering to the limited amount applicabilty of WINGDASH and Arrow loop in compare to pits basic technique

Is english your first language? In response to the actual post, you are incorrect that there is a limited amount of use for wingdashing and arrow looping. It is applicable in many many situations, it simply isn't always the best option in these situations. That isn't to say they aren't applicable however, as the way you word it makes it sound as if they can't be used. They can, and they can be used well.

So this statement emanate from my perception of seeing every character as an idea and every character is different which mean every ideas is diffirent so my understanding of "Pit's Advance technique is advance because it applicability is limited, which means the less its been use the more beneficial it is" so has a Pit user one should be focusing on basic, yes?

"Pits AT's are advanced because they can't be used much, which means the less you use them the better they are" <translated to basic english, and also incorrect. I agree, however, that a pit player should focus on the basics. And what you are speaking of is called the element of surprise. However the AT is no better because of a lack of use, and surprise will not help often. If I were to try and surprise my opponent by wingdashing instead of shielding, I still get the same basic result, but the wingdash is higher risk and more likely to fail. The surprise wouldn't have helped, because I still have better options. If wingdashing is the best option in a situation, then you should use it as such.

So if, a statement like this had being taken seriously at the beginning we could have benefit more just like how Masashi did and thats the reason why i made that statement

Your example and your statement do not correlate.

Pit's Advance technique is advance because it applicability is limited, which means the less its been use the more beneficial it is this statement should be at the top of "the Ultimate Pit Guide" well thats my opinion

That is indeed your opinion, however I fail to see why they should add an incorrect statement to the top of the pit guide.

i wasn't giving a definition of AT in general, i was remarking on the perception of
Pit's AT, my statement was just a mindset we should have went using Pit

This is a mindset that will limit pit players, because you are telling them not to try new things and ATs. Yes, the techniques pit has are limited in use. But that doesn't mean you should tell people not to use them. He is no more advanced because he doesn't use ATs, thats just unintelligible. The mindsets you need are "I'm going to win" and "What do I do in this situation that will best lead me to winning?" There is no need for a mindset of "Oh, I better not use my ATs, Lezard said that the less I use them the better they get." This isn't the wario waft.

According to the Smash Lab, an AT is a technique that Nintendo has not told us how to do. This is a very comprehensive term and includes many, many things. The actual limit of application makes little difference.

From what source from nintendo? told the community in general? or do you mean in that tiny pamphlet in the box? Nintendo didn't relate to us all the abilities of everyone, and many things they didn't tell us aren't considered advanced techniques. Nintendo never told me that Zero suit samus had a tether grab. I discovered an AT! I call naming dibs.


If anyone wants to respond to what I said about each specific AT, that would be lovely. Discussing the applications of the ATs as opposed to semantics upon what is an AT might actually help.

 

[Tikun]

Why teh hell do you guys write that much? >_>
And thus, your posts are getting agressive.
That's not the point on this thread x) [/b/tard in here]

I can only desagree on :

Pit's Advance technique is advance because it applicability is limited, which means the less its been use the more beneficial it is

Making some links b2wn melee and pits AT's, i would say that wavedash is an AT, and if you ddin't overuse that you just sucked balls on melee xD. Pit's ATs can be used as a timing mindgame (as you might know).

;*

 

[Lezard]

Your statement then is false when applied to others, and does not define the same category of advanced techniques, and other characters have advanced techniques. Thus, you cannot say your definition is correct when it doesn't work when applied. Hope that clears this up as to why people find you wrong. Well, that and the fact that your statement is false even when applied to pit.


Is english your first language? In response to the actual post, you are incorrect that there is a limited amount of use for wingdashing and arrow looping. It is applicable in many many situations, it simply isn't always the best option in these situations. That isn't to say they aren't applicable however, as the way you word it makes it sound as if they can't be used. They can, and they can be used well.



"Pits AT's are advanced because they can't be used much, which means the less you use them the better they are" <translated to basic english, and also incorrect. I agree, however, that a pit player should focus on the basics. And what you are speaking of is called the element of surprise. However the AT is no better because of a lack of use, and surprise will not help often. If I were to try and surprise my opponent by wingdashing instead of shielding, I still get the same basic result, but the wingdash is higher risk and more likely to fail. The surprise wouldn't have helped, because I still have better options. If wingdashing is the best option in a situation, then you should use it as such.



Your example and your statement do not correlate.


That is indeed your opinion, however I fail to see why they should add an incorrect statement to the top of the pit guide.


This is a mindset that will limit pit players, because you are telling them not to try new things and ATs. Yes, the techniques pit has are limited in use. But that doesn't mean you should tell people not to use them. He is no more advanced because he doesn't use ATs, thats just unintelligible. The mindsets you need are "I'm going to win" and "What do I do in this situation that will best lead me to winning?" There is no need for a mindset of "Oh, I better not use my ATs, Lezard said that the less I use them the better they get." This isn't the wario waft.


From what source from nintendo? told the community in general? or do you mean in that tiny pamphlet in the box? Nintendo didn't relate to us all the abilities of everyone, and many things they didn't tell us aren't considered advanced techniques. Nintendo never told me that Zero suit samus had a tether grab. I discovered an AT! I call naming dibs.


If anyone wants to respond to what I said about each specific AT, that would be lovely. Discussing the applications of the ATs as opposed to semantics upon what is an AT might actually help.

Very good
that was like flying in the face of fact, so to speak. However my idea was purely base on suggestion which was inconsistent and weak, enough said. Still i would love to debate with you more, i admire your ability to think critically


And the answer to your question is no, English is not my first language


Pit professional play style


Basic Technique
70%-90%
Advance Technique
30%-10%

What do you think?

 

[Phaigne]

From what source from nintendo? told the community in general? or do you mean in that tiny pamphlet in the box? Nintendo didn't relate to us all the abilities of everyone, and many things they didn't tell us aren't considered advanced techniques. Nintendo never told me that Zero suit samus had a tether grab. I discovered an AT! I call naming dibs.

One, my definition was taken from the Smash Lab, so if you have qualms with it, bring it up there. Two, Nintendo DID relate to us all of the basic abilities of characters, including tether recoveries. And Three, the sources from Nintendo can be anything officially announced by a Nintendo representative, such as Sakurai or techniques listed in the game's manual.

And to Lezard, I think Pit is such a flexible character that one can go almost completely unaided by ATs and still be a professional player, but that is all up to your personal preference. I say this considering I do not believe any of Pit's advanced techniques to be game defining.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

hmm with pit id say its more like 95% 5%

70-30 would be saying that for every 10 moves you do, 3 of tehm would be AT's, and well thats way to much usage

 

[Lezard]

hmm with pit id say its more like 95% 5%

70-30 would be saying that for every 10 moves you do, 3 of tehm would be AT's, and well thats way to much usage

ok, thats about accurate

Pit professional play style

Basic Technique
90%-95%
Advance Technique
10%-5%

 

[teh_pwns_the]

5% to 1% maybe

90% to 10% woud imply one in ten, which is still tooooooo much



actually i'm beginning to realize that this thread is just setting back the pit boards, so R@vyn do your thing and lock this train wreck down please