Work In Progress The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (Smash Ultimate Edition!)

Is Balloon Fighter Disconfirmed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 151 51.4%
  • No

    Votes: 61 20.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 82 27.9%

  • Total voters
    294

KingBroly

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Here's the picture showing Daisy as a Spirit: View attachment 175453
That's a Character Spirit. Not equippable, for some reason. I'd rather have a Trophy if they're gonna do that.

In any case, I feel like putting Rex in the Graveyard is premature, at least for now. Mii costumes are not a deconfirmation, as we have one for Chrom. I also can't get over the phrasing, which makes me think he will become playable at some point
 

Noventiaa

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That's a Character Spirit. Not equippable, for some reason. I'd rather have a Trophy if they're gonna do that.

In any case, I feel like putting Rex in the Graveyard is premature, at least for now. Mii costumes are not a deconfirmation, as we have one for Chrom. I also can't get over the phrasing, which makes me think he will become playable at some point
The phrasing is actually what makes me think he's disconfirmed - Specifically saying that he couldn't include him so they made a mii costume sounds pretty final to me. I could be wrong, though.
 

HypnoMaster372

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What was I supposed to take from the video at the time stamp?
I honesty don't get how you didn't get it, but I'll explain it here to clear it up. -
There are Spirits based upon the Fighters but are so far only known to only exist to look at (such as the observed Daisy Spirit, K. Rool Spirit, etc.). However, there are some exceptions of ones that whist resembling a Fighter, they don't count as a Fighter Spirit due to lacking the name of the resembled Fighter, such as the Wii Fit Yoga Pose Spirits.
 
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Crystanium

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I honesty don't get how you didn't get it, but I'll explain it here to clear it up. -
There are Spirits based upon the Fighters but are so far only known to only exist to look at (such as the observed Daisy Spirit, K. Rool Spirit, etc.). However, there are some exceptions of ones that whist resembling a Fighter, they don't count as a Fighter Spirit due to lacking the name of the resembled Fighter, such as the Wii Fit Yoga Pose Spirits.
Okay. I take it you quoted me to challenge my comment. How does this do that?
 

Xigger

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I don't think the community will agree on a consensus about whether or not Spirits deconfirm fighters or not. I think it would be better to make the equivalent of an asterisk, or perhaps even a separate Spirits graveyard* or Limbo.

*Spirits Graveyard is not a guaranteed disconfirmation.
 

HypnoMaster372

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Okay. I take it you quoted me to challenge my comment. How does this do that?
I wasn't challeging you. I just saw your post stating abut what was ment to be taken from the video, &, well, explained it in text form. However, now that I read the posts StarDust quoted in his post above, I realised that I actually misunderstand what those posts were ment to be, so apologises for the misunderstanding :lol:.
 

Judd

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I still think Tom Nook should be removed from the list as he would be in the same boat as Chrom. Character originally appearing in Smash 4 within a Final Smash. With Chrom still appearing in Robin's Final Smash, I don't really see what truly disconfirms Tom now
 
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Xigger

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I still think Tom Nook should be removed from the list as he would be in the same boat as Chrom. Character originally appearing in Smash 4 within a Final Smash. With Chrom still appearing in Robin's Final Smash, I don't really see what truly disconfirms Tom now
From a purely objective standpoint, it's true that he isn't deconfirmed.

But I think most Tom Nook fans feel he isn't in because he was featured in a CGI trailer right after Isabelle, and wasn't confirmed or hinted at. It reminds a lot of people of Chrom in the SSB4 trailer when he was just a cameo.

And while this is technically the same for the anime-style trailer with Dark Pit, the feeling is completely different. His cameo HINTED at his inclusion, and fans felt that hint and believed he was in. Chrom and Tom Nook fans didn't feel the same way.
 

StarDustStorm

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Screenshot 2018-11-14 at 5.43.52 PM.png

Umm... Super Sonic is a Spirit, and even named.
This is really weird especially since he's Sonic's Final Smash, but I guess this is really only a special case though, lol.

Though because of this Spirit, it will cause more skepticism unless the counterargument is what I just described above.
 
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Chinderblock

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View attachment 177872
Umm... Super Sonic is a Spirit, and even named.
This is really weird especially since he's Sonic's Final Smash, but I guess this is really only a special case though, lol.

Though because of this Spirit, it will cause more skepticism unless the counterargument is what I just described above.
Spirits are literally the new Trophies. While it's possible we could get DLC that is of no spirit, it's not that likely.

In other words, they're meaningless for the most part. I mean, we had Mewtwo as a trophy and Lucas too, and we still got them as DLC.
 

RileyXY1

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Spirits are literally the new Trophies. While it's possible we could get DLC that is of no spirit, it's not that likely.

In other words, they're meaningless for the most part. I mean, we had Mewtwo as a trophy and Lucas too, and we still got them as DLC.
Yeah. I don't actively consider Spirits or Spirit trainers to be deconfirmations.
 

R O F L

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If we get DLC fighters who are a base game spirit, what would happen to their spirit battles?

If their already existing spirit battle is kept even though they are a spirit, it wouldn't make sense because they would have another fighter has a puppet fighter while the spirit is an actual playable character. To add on to this, if the DLC character has a fighter spirit, (Which is very likely considering there is no Piranha Plant spirit yet, so hey could be waiting to add him as a fighter spirit when you get his DLC.) there would be duplicate spirits, one fighter and one normal. So it could be possible to use the DLC character with a spirit of themselves.

Now what if they removed their spirit battle? If they did this, then they would have to remove the spirit as well. They could, after you purchase the DLC, take away the select spirit battle and spirit and give the player some SP, Snacks, another Spirit, or Spirit Board items to make up for it. IMO this is probably the only way we could get spirits as DLC fighters..

And what if you can't use DLC characters in Spirits mode? I don't see them doing this, but it is a possibility. There would still be a duplicate spirit problem unless the DLC character has no fight spirit. (Which means no special classic mode reward.)
 
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D

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Over a month ago, we didn't think Spirits were disconfirmations for this round.

How about now? Has the reveal of Joker changed anything?
I personally think that spirits may very well deconfirm characters, and there are a few reasons for this.

Unlike trophies, spirits have a major effect on gameplay, being the one of the main features of one of the major modes in the game. You even get to see them during battles that use them. It would be weird to fight as Mario using a Spirit of the exact same character, or even fight against what is essentially a recreation of that character, with that exact same character.

A point against this would be fighter spirits, but they have no effect on gameplay, only a piece of artwork to look at. With no effect on gameplay they can't be used to enhance the exact same character, and they don't have a spirit battle either. I honestly think fighter spirits do nothing to help the chances of characters in the game as spirits becoming DLC, I think it actually hurts their chance more then it helps them.

Combine that with suspicious omissions of certain characters *cough*Porky*cough*, and it makes for a pretty reasonable case for spirits being deconfirmations.

Overall, Merry Christmas, your most wanted isn't getting into Smash.
 
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RileyXY1

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I personally think that spirits may very well deconfirm characters, and there are a few reasons for this.

Unlike trophies, spirits have a major effect on gameplay, being the one of the main features of one of the major modes in the game. You even get to see them during battles that use them. It would be weird to fight as Mario using a Spirit of the exact same character, or even fight against what is essentially a recreation of that character, with that exact same character.

A point against this would be fighter spirits, but they have no effect on gameplay, only a piece of artwork to look at. With no effect on gameplay they can't be used to enhance the exact same character, and they don't have a spirit battle either. I honestly think fighter spirits do nothing to help the chances of characters in the game as spirits becoming DLC, I think it actually hurts their chance more then it helps them.

Combine that with suspicious omissions of certain characters *cough*Porky*cough*, and makes for a pretty reasonable case for spirits being deconfirmations.

Overall, Merry Christmas, your most wanted isn't getting into Smash.
I highly doubt that a jpeg would stop characters from getting into the game. This is a game where Robin can summon Chrom to beat up Chrom.
 
D

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I highly doubt that a jpeg would stop characters from getting into the game. This is a game where Robin can summon Chrom to beat up Chrom.
What’s the point in quoting my post if your not going to acknowledge it in anyway? This just seems like a copy and paste remark that you could use as a reply for any comment about spirits being deconfirmations.
 
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Erimir

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If we get DLC fighters who are a base game spirit, what would happen to their spirit battles?

If their already existing spirit battle is kept even though they are a spirit, it wouldn't make sense because they would have another fighter has a puppet fighter while the spirit is an actual playable character. To add on to this, if the DLC character has a fighter spirit, (Which is very likely considering there is no Piranha Plant spirit yet, so hey could be waiting to add him as a fighter spirit when you get his DLC.) there would be duplicate spirits, one fighter and one normal. So it could be possible to use the DLC character with a spirit of themselves.

Now what if they removed their spirit battle? If they did this, then they would have to remove the spirit as well. They could, after you purchase the DLC, take away the select spirit battle and spirit and give the player some SP, Snacks, another Spirit, or Spirit Board items to make up for it. IMO this is probably the only way we could get spirits as DLC fighters..

And what if you can't use DLC characters in Spirits mode? I don't see them doing this, but it is a possibility. There would still be a duplicate spirit problem unless the DLC character has no fight spirit. (Which means no special classic mode reward.)
I think there are ways to get around this pretty easily for most characters with spirits.

Note, for example, that Link has multiple spirits which are just versions of Link from different games. His fighter spirit has the BotW design and his Smash render.

So, suppose they added Dixie Kong as a DLC fighter? Well, they could just rename her spirit to reflect which game the artwork came from, while her Fighter Spirit could either:
1. just consist of her Smash artwork (like Cloud, the Wii Fit Trainers or the Mii Fighters)
2. use different artwork for her Fighter Spirit (if her current Spirit is from DKC2 or 3, then use Tropical Freeze artwork, or vice versa)

The first solution would work for any DLC character, while the second would work for any with many game appearances (and thus many options for the original appearance Fighter Spirit art)

It is pretty easy to accommodate a character already having a spirit, although I'd certainly consider it to hurt their chances significantly given that they have already chosen the DLC before launch. The devs would have had to make a conscious choice to somewhat mislead us - they would've known that the "Dixie Kong" spirit would need a different name after Dixie Kong was added as a DLC fighter. But they would've also chosen not to name the spirit "Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country 3)" or something because they would've known that would lead a lot of people to conclude that she was going to be DLC.

So, they can deal with it... but would they have chosen to do it that way? Maybe not.

(Also Piranha Plant is not a good precedent since they announced it before the launch of the game and reveal of the full spirit list. There was no reason to play coy as a result. And the absence of a Piranha Plant spirit wouldn't have been that suspicious anyway, although it would've been seen as strange people probably wouldn't have seen it as indicated it would be a fighter...)
 
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Xigger

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If we get DLC fighters who are a base game spirit, what would happen to their spirit battles?
It's rather simple. If existing fighters have spirits like these:

• Link (The Legend of Zelda)
• Ganondorf (Twilight Princess)
• Zelda (Ocarina of Time)

Then DLC fighters with existing Spirits could be named like this:

• Dixie Kong (Tropical Freeze)
• Shantae (Half Genie Hero)
 

Erimir

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I would say that I'd rather be, say, Sylux than Dixie Kong.

Metroid Prime Hunters has spirits for Trace and Kanden, but not the most popular hunter? And we know that a new Metroid Prime is coming and that Sylux has been hinted as getting a larger role in the Prime series? That seems suggestive. Dixie Kong could be accommodated, but it's definitely not good news for her.
 

Chinderblock

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Master Chief officially disconfirmed by the 343 head. View attachment 184194
Here's my problem with this. He just downloaded Smash. Sakurai has confirmed he has not started any work on Joker at all. It's impossible for any character to be Smash DLC as of literally right now because they aren't actually even worked on.

I don't think it means anything. He literally downloaded the game, and Master Chief isn't in there. So of course he isn't Smash DLC. No work was done on him at all. All the context he gives is he knows because he downloaded the game. It's really poorly worded. Of course, he could just be saying he knows all the information and Microsoft has not spoken to Sakurai about it. The problem is? The way this is worded just sounds like he entirely knows he isn't Smash DLC... cause he isn't among the downloaded stuff he just got. So what does he even know? Nothing? The only actual DLC released at this point is more Spirits. PP is not out. And he's the only character being worked on. Nobody else to our knowledge(if Joker isn't worked on yet, the chance of the other 4 having any work done is really low).

Unlike the Travis tweet(where's the proper source anyway?), this one is based upon a very odd statement and I wouldn't say it's clear cut enough to say "definitely disconfirmed". This is more like "he probably won't make it in, but this information doesn't mean anything because there's a lack of hard context". Also, if he's under an NDA, he might have to deny anything. On the other hand, he is right. As of this time, Chief cannot be Smash DLC because no work was done on him as of yet(just like Joker). So that's quite possible what he means. It also isn't the first time we've had strange statements. Reggie isn't clear on what he meant by "new to the series" either. Does that mean characters who never once appeared(even cameos) in Smash? Franchises that never appeared in Smash(not even Ultimate's base game), characters that have not appeared in Smash Ultimate's base? It's strange. I feel we have a similar situation here.
 

Xigger

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Here's my problem with this. He just downloaded Smash. Sakurai has confirmed he has not started any work on Joker at all. It's impossible for any character to be Smash DLC as of literally right now because they aren't actually even worked on.

I don't think it means anything. He literally downloaded the game, and Master Chief isn't in there. So of course he isn't Smash DLC. No work was done on him at all. All the context he gives is he knows because he downloaded the game. It's really poorly worded. Of course, he could just be saying he knows all the information and Microsoft has not spoken to Sakurai about it. The problem is? The way this is worded just sounds like he entirely knows he isn't Smash DLC... cause he isn't among the downloaded stuff he just got. So what does he even know? Nothing? The only actual DLC released at this point is more Spirits. PP is not out. And he's the only character being worked on. Nobody else to our knowledge(if Joker isn't worked on yet, the chance of the other 4 having any work done is really low).

Unlike the Travis tweet(where's the proper source anyway?), this one is based upon a very odd statement and I wouldn't say it's clear cut enough to say "definitely disconfirmed". This is more like "he probably won't make it in, but this information doesn't mean anything because there's a lack of hard context". Also, if he's under an NDA, he might have to deny anything. On the other hand, he is right. As of this time, Chief cannot be Smash DLC because no work was done on him as of yet(just like Joker). So that's quite possible what he means. It also isn't the first time we've had strange statements. Reggie isn't clear on what he meant by "new to the series" either. Does that mean characters who never once appeared(even cameos) in Smash? Franchises that never appeared in Smash(not even Ultimate's base game), characters that have not appeared in Smash Ultimate's base? It's strange. I feel we have a similar situation here.
So, your point about "not in Smash" is literally correct... but it's really missing the point.

And from a business perspective, when it comes to NDAs dealing in information, even going out of your way to tweet in that context is still a no-no.
 

Chinderblock

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So, your point about "not in Smash" is literally correct... but it's really missing the point.

And from a business perspective, when it comes to NDAs dealing in information, even going out of your way to tweet in that context is still a no-no.
No, that's not how NDA's work in itself. It's whatever the specific NDA says. Sometimes you're allowed to say literal statements. In this case, he is not actually in the physical game yet, which is why the person can say that. Combined with the fact that Joker is unfinished(and had no gameplay to show off), there's no reason to believe anybody else was anywhere close to finished enough to show off. There's no way the user could've downloaded anything.

It literally means he could not have been in the data. Joker cannot be found in the data from the latest updates either. Why would anyone else besides PP, who has confirmed work done all the way back to September, be among the data? The only actual context we have is him talking about the "stuff I downloaded". They don't actually say in any way they heard it from the higher-ups talking. There's a huge lack of context among their statement to actually say that Master Chief won't be DLC. It's poorly worded, and is likely they heard that, but that's not what the text outright implies.
 

Yokta

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I believe that if a character already has a Primary, Support or Master Spirit in the game, they are deconfirmed as DLC. The major difference between the development of Smash 4 and Ultimate was that DLC was not planned for 4 until after the game had released. Mewtwo and Lucas were added as trophies because DLC wasn't even viable until after development finished on Smash 3DS.

During development of Ultimate, however, the downloadable characters were locked in during the early stages. Thus, they deliberately omitted these characters from the Spirit roster so that their eventual Fighter Spirit wouldn't be redundant.

Notice how there is no Piranha Plant Spirit in spite of its iconic status, and that the Nipper Plant Spirit jumps straight to being Petey Piranha when enhanced.

For this reason, I believe that Spirits deconfirm fighters. I also believe that all members of the Fighter's Pass are third party guests, as it would otherwise be much too easy to guess the contents of the Pass.

Yes, it would be nice if Lycanroc and Tibby were part of the Pass, seeing how they've been snubbed in the base game. But I believe they'll be added as Spirits in a free update later on, much like the Golden Dash Mushroom, Dice Block and River Survival.

Side note: how do you turn the concept of a game mode into a Spirit? What even is a Spirit?
 
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