Work In Progress The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (Smash Ultimate Edition!)

Is Balloon Fighter Disconfirmed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 152 51.5%
  • No

    Votes: 61 20.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 82 27.8%

  • Total voters
    295

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,202
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Death's Scythe from Castlevania appears as an item but still not a good example, though he appears in the Simon Trailer. However other characters has used Death's Scythe outisde of Smash Bros.
Death isn't a playable character.

That's what I meant. I probably wasn't clear enough. Playable characters have never had their signature weapon(that they consistently use in Smash) usable before they debuted. We have zero examples of that. So far. Ness is almost an example, if it was actually the same weapon. The Home-Run Bat and Ness' Bat using the same design is more to save assets. I mean, they used Mario as a base to create Ness, after all.
 

SvartWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
1,674
Location
Santiago/Chile
Death isn't a playable character.

That's what I meant. I probably wasn't clear enough. Playable characters have never had their signature weapon(that they consistently use in Smash) usable before they debuted. We have zero examples of that. So far. Ness is almost an example, if it was actually the same weapon. The Home-Run Bat and Ness' Bat using the same design is more to save assets. I mean, they used Mario as a base to create Ness, after all.
You mean that Death's chances of being playable are 0? null? nothing? :c... Daaamn, he is one of my favorite Castlevania characters... does it means that now Death is Dead on the graveyard? >:3

What a terrible night to be Dampe....

Speaking seriously now.. while Almost NOONE expected Alucard to get in instead of a Belmont, he is still a beloved character that is wanted by many, adn still was the playable character of one of the PSX more succesful games... shouldn't he had a grave? or is only for characters with strong fanbases here in smash boards?
 

lordvaati

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
2,969
Location
Seattle, WA
3DS FC
1307-0830-2387
Alucard's an assist, but I take it as a victory considering he could have easily just been a trophy or not appeared at all. Of course I would have loved him to be playable too.
Speaking of Alucart Alucard, his Younger self(Kid Dracula) was teased as a stage boss too.
kid-dracula.jpg
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Yep. Surprised Kid Dracula even made an appearence. Pretty much everything they've put in shows that the series got a lot of care put into its inclusion.

I like to put it this way, I think that Alucard being an assist is great as it gets people thinking and talking about him. But other than that, he just makes a really badass assist really. So that's cool.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,202
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
You mean that Death's chances of being playable are 0? null? nothing? :c... Daaamn, he is one of my favorite Castlevania characters... does it means that now Death is Dead on the graveyard? >:3

What a terrible night to be Dampe....

Speaking seriously now.. while Almost NOONE expected Alucard to get in instead of a Belmont, he is still a beloved character that is wanted by many, adn still was the playable character of one of the PSX more succesful games... shouldn't he had a grave? or is only for characters with strong fanbases here in smash boards?
More that we can't use Death's Scythe as a legit example of the point that "a character's signature Smash weapon can outright appear in the game before debuting them."

...Though again, Ness could be an example, but the Home-Run Bat was never treated as an EarthBound item, so it's not a real example and only kind of close. I don't know if they outright introduced the Bat or Ness first. Either way, I wouldn't put much stock into the Lip's Stick thing. I can fully get why people think this kills Lip's chances. We don't have a legit example of a signature item(that again, they use in their moveset) before actually debuting the character. Yet. It's a fan-rule, but a consistent one to take into account. It doesn't mean anything for this thread's rules, of course. Just saying to keep the expectations in check. For the purpose of this thread, this does not mean anything to Lip. And it shouldn't, as we can't say for sure she's out with only an item appearing.
 

StarDustStorm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
343
More that we can't use Death's Scythe as a legit example of the point that "a character's signature Smash weapon can outright appear in the game before debuting them."

...Though again, Ness could be an example, but the Home-Run Bat was never treated as an EarthBound item, so it's not a real example and only kind of close. I don't know if they outright introduced the Bat or Ness first. Either way, I wouldn't put much stock into the Lip's Stick thing. I can fully get why people think this kills Lip's chances. We don't have a legit example of a signature item(that again, they use in their moveset) before actually debuting the character. Yet. It's a fan-rule, but a consistent one to take into account. It doesn't mean anything for this thread's rules, of course. Just saying to keep the expectations in check. For the purpose of this thread, this does not mean anything to Lip. And it shouldn't, as we can't say for sure she's out with only an item appearing.
I mean there's already ways of differentiating the stick from the item such as closing the stick like the games and open it up on her attacks. If they want it to be even more different make it smaller. Lip was originally going to have Furil's stick design anyways found in the Rom of Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, which is another design they can use.
 

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,202
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I mean there's already ways of differentiating the stick from the item such as closing the stick like the games and open it up on her attacks. If they want it to be even more different make it smaller. Lip was originally going to have Furil's stick design anyways found in the Rom of Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, which is another design they can use.
Not arguing that. Just that we have yet to see a case where an Item that is their signature weapon in Smash(as in key to their moveset. Ness' main weapon may be a bat outside of Smash, but in Smash PSI Attacks are his focus instead) debut before the character debuts, in the same game. We have actually zero examples of this particular case. Just keep your expectations in check, that's all.

Also, to say the least, this does not disconfirm Lip, but it's reasonable to be wary of her chances.
 

StarDustStorm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
343
You mean that Death's chances of being playable are 0? null? nothing? :c... Daaamn, he is one of my favorite Castlevania characters... does it means that now Death is Dead on the graveyard? >:3

What a terrible night to be Dampe....

Speaking seriously now.. while Almost NOONE expected Alucard to get in instead of a Belmont, he is still a beloved character that is wanted by many, adn still was the playable character of one of the PSX more succesful games... shouldn't he had a grave? or is only for characters with strong fanbases here in smash boards?
Dark Pit wasn't confirmed as a fighter in SSB4 in the Palutena trailer but teased. I don't think Death is likely to be playable because he's technically 3rd party. Not because his item appears in the game, or his appearance in Simon's trailer.
 

Guybrush20X6

Smash Legend
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
12,993
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
NNID
Guybrush20X6
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
To change the topic, how many assist trophies is that now? Are we close to the teased number?
 

SvartWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
1,674
Location
Santiago/Chile
Dark Pit wasn't confirmed as a fighter in SSB4 in the Palutena trailer but teased. I don't think Death is likely to be playable because he's technically 3rd party. Not because his item appears in the game, or his appearance in Simon's trailer.
Daang, the Death comment was a joke, playing on how ****ty would be to be dampe if the most necromantic entity ends in a graveyard full of recent deaths...
Obviously Death is not playable, and i mean... Im SUPER happy that he is a stage hazard and part of the trailer and even have an item!... is certainly waaay more than i was expecting.

but to put it simple.. if we divide castlevania characters in tiers, we have Tier one, the most iconic character of the series, Simon (in the west) and Richter (in the east), then, Tier 2 would be quintaeesential characters of the series, mainly Dracula and Alucard, Tier 3 would ve other protagonist from super popular entries, (Trevor, Soma, Shanoa).. Death would be in Tier 4... Important secondary characters and protagonist from less succesful games... meaning that for Death to enter smash we would need first at minimum 6 Previous Castlevania characters XD. Is like expecting bowser junior in a game where only Mario is in XD.

The Alucard part was less silly.

Regarding Lip.. i think that in Lip case i don't think that it deconfirms her per se (Mind you i don't think she is in) mostly cause the Lip Stick is a super iconic item from teh smash series.. meaning that at this point represents more than just Lip.

To change the topic, how many assist trophies is that now? Are we close to the teased number?
I was wondering the same thing :o
 
Last edited:

StarDustStorm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
343
Daang, the Death comment was a joke, playing on how ****ty would be to be dampe if the most necromantic entity ends in a graveyard full of recent deaths...
Obviously Death is not playable, and i mean... Im SUPER happy that he is a stage hazard and part of the trailer and even have an item!... is certainly waaay more than i was expecting.

but to put it simple.. if we divide castlevania characters in tiers, we have Tier one, the most iconic character of the series, Simon (in the west) and Richter (in the east), then, Tier 2 would be quintaeesential characters of the series, mainly Dracula and Alucard, Tier 3 would ve other protagonist from super popular entries, (Trevor, Soma, Shanoa).. Death would be in Tier 4... Important secondary characters and protagonist from less succesful games... meaning that for Death to enter smash we would need first at minimum 6 Previous Castlevania characters XD. Is like expecting bowser junior in a game where only Mario is in XD.

The Alucard part was less silly.

Regarding Lip.. i think that in Lip case i don't think that it deconfirms her per se (Mind you i don't think she is in) mostly cause the Lip Stick is a super iconic item from teh smash series.. meaning that at this point represents more than just Lip.



I was wondering the same thing :o
People thinks it hurts having Panel de Pon content in Smash will hurt her chances because they believe it would be used for a potential moveset (Garbage Block and Lip's Stick), but the problem is that it also gives the series representation this way so it can go either way about her chances so I just remain neutral on it.
 

Guybrush20X6

Smash Legend
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
12,993
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
NNID
Guybrush20X6
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
Well I counted on Smash wiki and we have 40 of them so far.

I think the number given originally was over 50.
We may nearly be out of the woods.
 

SvartWolf

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
1,674
Location
Santiago/Chile
So the reason why Shovel Knight is an assist in Ultimate because Rivals of Aether has added him as playable DLC. Hey Chandeelure, promote him to be a gravekepper like Dampe and give him a medal for being in!
Uh? This is fact or speculation?

Regarding the notable ommisions... Unless they are playable, I think that Dillon and saki are guaranteed to return...

Shadow , I can see him either being playable, still being an assist, or being completely out of the game, replaced by knicles...

I wonder if we are getting a Street fighter assist? I don't think we are getting a final fantasy assist though... I also wonder if elecman is returning or completely replaced by zero. Or if we are getting back popular brawl trophies like advance wars ?
 
Last edited:

Guybrush20X6

Smash Legend
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
12,993
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
NNID
Guybrush20X6
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
Uh? This is fact or speculation?
Most likely speculation. I think both negotiations happened separately and, no offence to Rivals, but if that deal was getting in the way of my OC getting into Smash, I'd drop it so I don't think they're linked any.
 

Erimir

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
1,750
Location
DC
3DS FC
3823-8583-9137
Other section is for music that comes from a single game rather than a series. Duck Hunt and Ice Climber are in the "other" section as well.

While I think they'd be unlikely to reveal a track from a previously unrepresented series before revealing a playable character in the same game, and certainly not for a 3rd-party series*, I wouldn't think that applies to returning music, which that track is, since its presence doesn't spoil the addition of the character.

Perhaps Mach Rider would get a second track if she (he?) became playable. But there's honestly no more music in the original game, they basically used all of it in the Mach Rider track they already have, so it would just be a new arrangement of the same music. Either way, the lack of a second Mach Rider track is the relevant tidbit there as if he were playable, he'd probably get a stage, and they'd probably make a new track. I'm not sure it's enough to disconfirm, though. The fact that it's in the "other" section doesn't matter.

I mean, Mach Rider almost certainly isn't going to be playable. But I'm not sure returning music tracks can disconfirm (or confirm!) a character...

*with notable unintentional exceptions :ultsimon:
 
Last edited:

Guybrush20X6

Smash Legend
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
12,993
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
NNID
Guybrush20X6
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
Other section is for music that comes from a single game rather than a series. Duck Hunt and Ice Climber are in the "other" section as well.

While I think they'd be unlikely to reveal a track from a previously unrepresented series before revealing a playable character in the same game, and certainly not for a 3rd-party series*, I wouldn't think that applies to returning music, which that track is, since its presence doesn't spoil the addition of the character.

Perhaps Mach Rider would get a second track if she (he?) became playable. But there's honestly no more music in the original game, they basically used all of it in the Mach Rider track they already have, so it would just be a new arrangement of the same music. Either way, the lack of a second Mach Rider track is the relevant tidbit there as if he were playable, he'd probably get a stage, and they'd probably make a new track. I'm not sure it's enough to disconfirm, though. The fact that it's in the "other" section doesn't matter.

I mean, Mach Rider almost certainly isn't going to be playable. But I'm not sure returning music tracks can disconfirm (or confirm!) a character...

*with notable unintentional exceptions :ultsimon:
Yeah, look how much false hope Ashley's theme gave us all in the Brawl hype era
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
8,191
Location
New Orleans
3DS FC
0662-2900-1492
NNID
BGenius23
Zero getting disconfirmed almost made me cry.
Daang, the Death comment was a joke, playing on how ****ty would be to be dampe if the most necromantic entity ends in a graveyard full of recent deaths...
Obviously Death is not playable, and i mean... Im SUPER happy that he is a stage hazard and part of the trailer and even have an item!... is certainly waaay more than i was expecting.

but to put it simple.. if we divide castlevania characters in tiers, we have Tier one, the most iconic character of the series, Simon (in the west) and Richter (in the east), then, Tier 2 would be quintaeesential characters of the series, mainly Dracula and Alucard, Tier 3 would ve other protagonist from super popular entries, (Trevor, Soma, Shanoa).. Death would be in Tier 4... Important secondary characters and protagonist from less succesful games... meaning that for Death to enter smash we would need first at minimum 6 Previous Castlevania characters XD. Is like expecting bowser junior in a game where only Mario is in XD.

The Alucard part was less silly.

Regarding Lip.. i think that in Lip case i don't think that it deconfirms her per se (Mind you i don't think she is in) mostly cause the Lip Stick is a super iconic item from teh smash series.. meaning that at this point represents more than just Lip.



I was wondering the same thing :o
I’m pretty sure Death would be in tier 2 and Alucard in tier 1. Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t Death been in every Castlevania game to date? A tier 4 villain would be someone like Shaft.
 

Guybrush20X6

Smash Legend
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
12,993
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
NNID
Guybrush20X6
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
Zero getting disconfirmed almost made me cry.

I’m pretty sure Death would be in tier 2 and Alucard in tier 1. Correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t Death been in every Castlevania game to date? A tier 4 villain would be someone like Shaft.
Yeah, Death is Dracula's right hand man, confidant and worst of all, enabler. If Dracula isn't the final boss of a game, Death takes his place.
And his Lords of Shadow counterpart was voiced by Christopher Lee. That's how you know they don't fool around when it comes to Death.
 

TBone06

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
814
Stating this right now. Captain Toad should not be added to this list yet.

Yes I know he's in the background of New Donk City Hall. But Toon Link also appears in the background of Spirit Train and he's still playable. There are already a couple of characters on this list who really shouldn't be. Let's not make Captain Toad one of them.
The difference is Toon Link was already a character in Brawl. Captain Toad has never been playable. While it's not conclusive, outlook is not so good.
 

PeridotGX

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
2,417
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Switch FC
2036-9032-5151
Stating this right now. Captain Toad should not be added to this list yet.

Yes I know he's in the background of New Donk City Hall. But Toon Link also appears in the background of Spirit Train and he's still playable. There are already a couple of characters on this list who really shouldn't be. Let's not make Captain Toad one of them.
Yeah, I agree with you. While he's very unlikely now, he's not impossible due to Spirit Tracks Toon Link.

Also can I just say it's really jarring seeing you in a thread outside of the stage contest?
 

Chinderblock

Whip It Good
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
27,202
Location
Warp Zone
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
NNID
Irene4
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Stating this right now. Captain Toad should not be added to this list yet.

Yes I know he's in the background of New Donk City Hall. But Toon Link also appears in the background of Spirit Train and he's still playable. There are already a couple of characters on this list who really shouldn't be. Let's not make Captain Toad one of them.
The main reason he shouldn't be on the list is we don't actually know what the character does at all. We just see a snippet of him and that's it.

Whereas Pauline is a heavy focus of the stage itself, constantly singing, cementing that she can't be replaced easily in the stage without missing the point. Though I guess they could remove all of it if she was currently playable? But eh.

Also, it's important to note that Toon Link was a previously playable character beforehand. We have yet to see a character introduced as a stage element than shown as playable(that is, their playable debut) during the pre-release information. Not to say it can't happen, but it's not a current thing. Yet.

Besides that, many argued it wasn't Toon Link but a different person entirely, which also is notable for a reason; until Smash released, we didn't know that Toon Link's official games were "Wind Waker", "Phantom Hourglass", and "Spirit Tracks". In Brawl, which makes sense due to the time, it just said Wind Waker. It was also described "as he appears in Wind Waker", so it could just be that particular version of Link, not just the artstyle alone. It wasn't a clear-cut situation either. I actually thought the fact it was a different actual Link from the WW one was the reason he was a stage element too. Then I saw the trophy upon release and realized that stage elements don't care if the character is already playable, but do care enough to often replace them in certain situations.

For instance, Duck Hunt in his own stage still has the full hazard in the 2D sprite version. On the other hand, King Dedede's sprite disappears on Dream Land when he is playable(it could be due to being a near identical design, compared to the heavy 2D vs 3D difference for Duck Hunt and Donkey Kong).
 

psb123

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
830
NNID
psb123
The difference is Toon Link was already a character in Brawl. Captain Toad has never been playable. While it's not conclusive, outlook is not so good.
I agree. I don't think this outright disconfirms Captain Toad just yet. But it does get me wondering.

Also can I just say it's really jarring seeing you in a thread outside of the stage contest?
Well it's not the first time I've posted in a thread outside my contest :p And once the contest ends I do intend to at least try posting in other threads more frequently.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
37
Location
United States
NNID
SCKeon
It's weird. I love Zero. He's been a favorite of mine since I first played MMX back in 1996, but I didn't really care about the idea of him being playable in Smash. Can't really explain why that is, but regardless, the Assist Trophy treatment for him is okay by me.

I'm more bummed about Lyn and Bomberman. :(
 
Last edited:

psb123

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
830
NNID
psb123
It's weird. I love Zero. He's been a favorite of mine since I first played MMX back in 1996, but I didn't really care about the idea of him being playable in Smash. Can't really explain why that is, but regardless, the Assist Trophy treatment for him is okay by me.

I'm more bummed about Lyn and Bomberman. :(
I'm surprised that Zero isn't part of Mega Man's Final Smash now. Specifically the design from Mega Man Zero since that and ZX are the only MM series not to be featured in his FS. If Proto Man and Bass are in there now then there's really no reason for Zero not to be.


Also PeridotGX PeridotGX , I noticed the poll asking if Balloon Fighter is disconfirmed. If I may ask, what exactly sparked that question in the first place?
 

StarDustStorm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
343
I'm surprised that Zero isn't part of Mega Man's Final Smash now. Specifically the design from Mega Man Zero since that and ZX are the only MM series not to be featured in his FS. If Proto Man and Bass are in there now then there's really no reason for Zero not to be.


Also PeridotGX PeridotGX , I noticed the poll asking if Balloon Fighter is disconfirmed. If I may ask, what exactly sparked that question in the first place?
I find very little sense for Bass to be included in the Final Smash honestly.
 

Flynn__

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
220
Captain Toad is probably out of the roster. I mean, what would be the point of making him cameo in New Donk City if he's going to be a playable character? It would be the first time Sakurai did something like that, and with no good reason.

Toon Link is a different case, as he was an already established character in the roster before the Spirit Tracks stage; Dedede is also different, as Dream Land 64 (and his cameo there) appeared before his first playable appearance.

I think that Sakurai just put him in New Donk to make a little cameo because of his role in Odyssey, and that's that.
 

PeridotGX

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
2,417
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Switch FC
2036-9032-5151
I'm surprised that Zero isn't part of Mega Man's Final Smash now. Specifically the design from Mega Man Zero since that and ZX are the only MM series not to be featured in his FS. If Proto Man and Bass are in there now then there's really no reason for Zero not to be.


Also PeridotGX PeridotGX , I noticed the poll asking if Balloon Fighter is disconfirmed. If I may ask, what exactly sparked that question in the first place?
Villager's up-B. It's not very simple one way or the other, so I let the community decide.

Captain Toad is probably out of the roster. I mean, what would be the point of making him cameo in New Donk City if he's going to be a playable character? It would be the first time Sakurai did something like that, and with no good reason.

Toon Link is a different case, as he was an already established character in the roster before the Spirit Tracks stage; Dedede is also different, as Dream Land 64 (and his cameo there) appeared before his first playable appearance.

I think that Sakurai just put him in New Donk to make a little cameo because of his role in Odyssey, and that's that.
Yeah, he's probably not in, but going off the precedent it's not impossible.
 
Top