mario brawler
Smash Journeyman
same here break
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The Gimp List (Yes, I'm updating it)
- Thread starter ???????
- Start date
Famous
Smash Champion
Well both Kirby and D3 can gimp Ike's recovery. Theres no need to pick up Mario just for this purpose....unless you truly want to join us as a Mario main.
BoTastic!
Smash Master
Mario doesn't gimp Ike's recovery. he destroys it.
smaci92
Smash Lord
a good zamus doesn't usually get gimped...
mario brawler
Smash Journeyman
any good player does'nt ussualy get gimped
lmao everyone is so defensive when they here a discussion about mario gimping their main
but seriously!CAN ANY ONE GIMP G&W!!! it annoys my because he has no extra jump or anything
just his 2nd jump and an up-b
(lmao I wonder how many people gawk at at the above post's sig XD)
lmao everyone is so defensive when they here a discussion about mario gimping their main
but seriously!CAN ANY ONE GIMP G&W!!! it annoys my because he has no extra jump or anything
just his 2nd jump and an up-b
(lmao I wonder how many people gawk at at the above post's sig XD)
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
G&W is practicaly impossible to gimp IMO. His recovery is insanely long and he can defend againstyour aerials with his own even after using it. He also gets the parachute, which guards against you F.L.U.D.D. and cape. Propably one of the best options would be trying to get a Fair spike hit when he´s about to use up-b.
About Zamus, she actually isn´t very easy to gimp. Her side-b works as an effective counterattack when you try to approach with Bair or something like that and she can turn your gimping against you with fastfalled up- and down-b spikes. Only that F.L.U.D.D. and cape stalling really hurt her. I´d say that she´s very easy when recovering low, but hard when recovering high (that seems to be more usual.
About Zamus, she actually isn´t very easy to gimp. Her side-b works as an effective counterattack when you try to approach with Bair or something like that and she can turn your gimping against you with fastfalled up- and down-b spikes. Only that F.L.U.D.D. and cape stalling really hurt her. I´d say that she´s very easy when recovering low, but hard when recovering high (that seems to be more usual.
Wolf isn't as easy to gimp as you guys think. He's only easy if he's under the stage (like on BF) - otherwise it's very risky. If you make a tiny mistake you'll get spiked yourself by his forward B and get gimped yourself.
Alba > Biel
Nuff' said.
G&W shouldn't even be discussed, you can't edgeguard him.
Fludd works really well for keeping her fast recovery at your pace. That's what you'd need to use first. From there, you go for the cape or aerial -> ledgehog. From above, nearly every character is safe from Mario's edgeguarding. Below is the worst place to recover. She's not hard but not easy either. She has a very versatile jump and doesn't rely on her tether.
Fludd first, THEN go for the cape. That's the only way to do it safely. Trying any other way doesn't guarantee that you won't eat an upB/SideB on the way to cape him
Forward B is a very weak spike. If you die from it, you were probably going to die anyway.
All wolfs try and ledge-scar or w/e it's called. Be ready to cape it.
BoTastic!
Smash Master
He'still one of the easiest of characters to edgeguard depending on the players.
Also edgeguarding G&W isn't immpossible, Matador. Its very hard but gimping was never immpossible in this game.
Also edgeguarding G&W isn't immpossible, Matador. Its very hard but gimping was never immpossible in this game.
lol, didn't realize you were a wolf, glad to have your input
He's still among that group (I wouldn't put Pit there with his very versatile recovery) because of how simple he is to edgeguard. Of course it's not a sure gimp, but pretty close to it. The fact is that he IS one of the easiest because of how well the cape hinders his recovery. If Mario manages to cape Wolf during any part of his recovery, there's not that much of a chance he'll return to the stage. Wolf has methods of preventing this, but no one plays a perfect game; recovery defenses are bound to get trumped. Fludd also makes this a simple gimp.
If I had to order the people you mentioned in order of gimp difficulty, it'd be:
Pit
Bowser
Fox
Wolf
Ness
Ganon
CF
Link
Falco
Ivy
Olimar
With Pit being the hardest.
Wolf can recover well because of the distance he can get, which makes fludd slightly less useful. Caping upB is very easy, but sideB has so many mixups with it, depending on how the Wolf uses it gimping can take some ridiculous prediction. Cancelling doesn't work very well though, it does nothing to improve wolf's chances of not getting caped unless used at least a little bit above stage level.
And yeah, the list above seems pretty accurate, but I'd move bowser down a bit, what makes him tougher to gimp than link?
And yeah, the list above seems pretty accurate, but I'd move bowser down a bit, what makes him tougher to gimp than link?
My bad, I always seem to come off as extreme in my posts >.> Wolf isn't too hard to gimp, fireballs are a pain, but the reason he can stand a chance is because of sideB's various mixups. Still easy to gimp for a good Mario, probably. And isn't Bowser easier to gimp with FLUDD, because he's... huge?
BoTastic!
Smash Master
A full charged fludd will disrupt a lot of recoveries. Besideds The cape is better to use against bowser than the fludd. Fludd just ***** links recovery no matter what.
Keoki
Smash Cadet
i have a question, does G&W get his B-up back if caped just like snake does?? because originally i could have sworn he did (i remember trying it on my brother) but i haven't seen it posted anywhere, ive only seen "snake gets b-up back" posted, so maybe i was always wrong about him getting it back. soo.. does he?
You'd have to clarify. "Wolf can recovery well because of the distance he can get"? That doesn't make much sense to me in the context you've said it.
SideB has mixups in the methods it can be used, but the trajectory and whatnot is always the same and therein lies the fallacy and vulnerability to gimping. Gimping Wolf is easy, especially if you've already Fludded his DJ, forcing him to go for the sweetspot or not recover at all. Making his recovery this predictable is the aim, and why it's so simple to gimp him.
Bowser isn't as momentum dependent as Link during his recovery. Fludd won't doom Bowser, but Link practically gimps himself with his abysmal recovery. Bowser can also defend his recovery well with his Fair and SideB while Link can't risk the vertical height he'd be sacrificing to try and prevent a gimp.
Indeed.
Yes, both G&W and Snake get a second upB if caped for God knows why. As if they weren't broken enough, now an attack that can't even wake a sleeping Jigglypuff gives 2 absurd characters a second upB after a would-be gimp. That's why Snake and G&W are amongst the hardest to gimp, with G&W being the hardest imo.
mario brawler
Smash Journeyman
and sonic also get's his up-b back...very annoying
Keoki
Smash Cadet
Wow, gay G&W and Snake (my brothers two mains >_>) why would they get their b-ups back... and apparently sonic too, but at least not everything else about sonic is gay or broken
Yeah, I'm pretty bad when it comes to making sense. I meant that simply using FLUDD would not be enough, because Wolf would still be able to make it back to the ledge in most cases. However, you have a good point in that Wolf would be forced to go straight for the ledge more often than not when at such a distance, which would make caping easy. The mixups only come into play when Wolf is close enough to the stage where semiscarring would hit an opponent or where illusion cancel would land on the stage or quickly get to the ledge, which admittedly won't be too often when FLUDD is used, reducing their usefulness. Basically, you're right about everything, I just left a lot of stuff out of my first post
And a quick question, you can airdodge FLUDD, right?
mario brawler
Smash Journeyman
yea im pretty sure you can airdodge fludd,but just as spot dodging bowser's fire,the rest of the water would hit you after the invincibility frames
Lmao
Agreed. You can airdodge Fludd.I meant that simply using FLUDD would not be enough, because Wolf would still be able to make it back to the ledge in most cases. However, you have a good point in that Wolf would be forced to go straight for the ledge more often than not when at such a distance, which would make caping easy. The mixups only come into play when Wolf is close enough to the stage where semiscarring would hit an opponent or where illusion cancel would land on the stage or quickly get to the ledge, which admittedly won't be too often when FLUDD is used, reducing their usefulness. Basically, you're right about everything, I just left a lot of stuff out of my first post
And a quick question, you can airdodge FLUDD, right?
Half-Split Soul
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,686
Wolf isn´t actually nearly as easy to gimp as he seems to be. Sure, he´s screwed by cape and both of his recovery attacks are fairly predictable and easy to cape, but at the same time he can actually vary his recovery with many ways. He´s heavy, so he doesn´t often fly very far from the edge which gives him lots of time to use his recovery before it´s too late.
For example, he can either use his side-b early and land on the edge or he can use it late to sweetspot the edge. Sometimes he can also use edgescarring (if that was the name
) so he basically has 2-3 ways of recovering with just his side-b alone. When mixing this with freely-controllable up-b, he has quite a many ways of coming back, each reguiring it´s own timing when caped.
Overall I´d say that he´s easy, but definitely not in the bottom part of easily camped chars.
For example, he can either use his side-b early and land on the edge or he can use it late to sweetspot the edge. Sometimes he can also use edgescarring (if that was the name
) so he basically has 2-3 ways of recovering with just his side-b alone. When mixing this with freely-controllable up-b, he has quite a many ways of coming back, each reguiring it´s own timing when caped.Overall I´d say that he´s easy, but definitely not in the bottom part of easily camped chars.
Indeed, that's why Fludding first is so important. Otherwise, it becomes rather difficult and requires perfect timing. Also, Wolf should never recover above stage with any of his B moves against Mario. I, for one, would cape-**** him if he pulled that on me. Sweetspotting is the only safe decision.Wolf isn´t actually nearly as easy to gimp as he seems to be. Sure, he´s screwed by cape and both of his recovery attacks are fairly predictable and easy to cape, but at the same time he can actually vary his recovery with many ways. He´s heavy, so he doesn´t often fly very far from the edge which gives him lots of time to use his recovery before it´s too late.
For example, he can either use his side-b early and land on the edge or he can use it late to sweetspot the edge. Sometimes he can also use edgescarring (if that was the name
Varinox
Smash Rookie
It seems to me if they are going for a sweet spot, which i would most of the time, just camp on the ledge and use your cape for invincibility frames
vato_break
Smash Master
You have to have precise timing or else they'll go right through you and get the ledge.
MRTW113
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2008
- Messages
- 341
What about cape and then FLUDD? Fludd first and you'll push them far from capes range, and you should gimp with cape, and then push them away with fludd allowing for you to retreat and recover.
Depends on the situation. I usually Fludd, then cape. Easier to space my cape so that they can't hit me before I use it. The best strategy could easily change depending on the character, stage and situation tho. Edgeguarding with Mario is all about innovation and thinking on your toes. With all the tools at his disposal like Capegliding and cape ledgestalls, there's always the opportunity to gimp any character that's offstage.
brinboy789
Smash Champion
imo all chars with autosweetspotting attacks are mid or higher
Judge Judy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,638
Not necessarly since characters can be forced into positions where they can't sweetspot. Plus I just made a thread on how useful the cape ledge teleports could be since they effectively make sweetspotting useless for Marth and CF.
Monk/Honkey/Banana
Smash Champion
GRAB DAT EDGE FOO...DAT ***** AIN'T GOT NO POWER ON XTREEEEEMMEEE SPEEEEEEEEDDDDD......d
Lulz, thought I was missing something. Figured Fludd or Cape has some influence over it that I was overlooking. Edgehogging works for me tho.
BoTastic!
Smash Master
??????? makes his disapearance again. =/
vato_break
Smash Master
we need to track down his ip adress and stalk him
_X_
Smash Lord
If no one added it
Fox's general recovery has a pretty updated metagame.
Using shine to stall can be a pretty good mind game..
But using shine to stall and then using your second jump with an fair for hight can be near impossible to read.
F-air recovery should be added to Fox's list.
Fox's general recovery has a pretty updated metagame.
Using shine to stall can be a pretty good mind game..
But using shine to stall and then using your second jump with an fair for hight can be near impossible to read.
F-air recovery should be added to Fox's list.