The Genesis 5 Discussion thread

[Lord Dio]

Note that Falln also beat Lima yesterday, and fights Mistake today.
Top rosas are just really damn good against bayo for some reason, lol

 

[Minordeth]

If dabuz fights a bayo i ecpect to see discussion on if bayo loses to rosa. I think she does.

Dabuz generally murders his way through Bayos, and iirc Falln has before this as well.

I’m not surprised most MU charts have Rosa as slight disadvantage. Honestly, tho, I don’t know if we are at a place where people can evaluate Bayo’s MUs accurately. This collective unconscious meme that “Bayo goes even or wins because she’s Bayo lol” is so pervasive.

Basically, I’m not not convinced she doesn’t have losing matchups.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Dabuz generally murders his way through Bayos, and iirc Falln has before this as well.

I’m not surprised most MU charts have Rosa as slight disadvantage. Honestly, tho, I don’t know if we are at a place where people can evaluate Bayo’s MUs accurately. This collective unconscious meme that “Bayo goes even or wins because she’s Bayo lol” is so pervasive.

Basically, I’m not not convinced she doesn’t have losing matchups.

Agreed. If she has no losing matchups, then why isn't she dominating the game like the best character of the previous games.

Anyways, rivals is almost over, so this is top 8:
Winners-Semi Finals:
MKLeo vs Dabuz
Salem vs MVD

Losers Round 1:
Nairo vs ESAM
falln vs Mistake

 

[TDK]

Generally speaking, a lot of the top bayos are really bad at killing Luma from the stage (but good at doing it while she's offstage) and are very impatient, which leads to a lot of mistakes that Rosas can take advantage of easily. a lot of them generally have an air dodge/Witch Time habit that's also really easy to take advantage of.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Geez, that was an insane ending to Rivals!
(This comment will change as top 8 proceeds)
Winners Semi-Finals:
MKLeo vs Dabuz
Salem vs MVD

Winners Finals:



Losers Round 1:
Nairo vs ESAM 3-0 (Bodied!)
falln vs Mistake

Losers Quarter-Finals:
Nairo


Losers Semi-Finals:


Losers Finals:


Grand Finals:
Comment moved to page 5

 

[Minordeth]

Generally speaking, a lot of the top bayos are really bad at killing Luma from the stage (but good at doing it while she's offstage) and are very impatient, which leads to a lot of mistakes that Rosas can take advantage of easily. a lot of them generally have an air dodge/Witch Time habit that's also really easy to take advantage of.

Oh Lord yes. This is part of the reason Salem does okay against Dabuz.

Like, that’s why I called out Chag’s liberal, panic button Witch Time use yesterday. And sure enough, the first time he got a Witch Time on Dabuz, he had spammed them so much that all he had time to do was kill Luma.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Apparantly s4 is late because 64 took longer than expected and delayed the schedule.

 

[Vycoul]

Nairo 3 - 0 ESAM.
That was quite a stomping. Nairo's looking great.

 

[Minordeth]

The running commentary Nairo vs Esam:

Nairo starting hard.

Esam hasn’t given Nairo a reason to fish for grabs.

Nairo’s reads and punishes on point.

This is gonna be a 3-0 if Esam can’t slow it down.

And it’s a 3-0. Whoops.

 

[TDK]

Never say Rosa beats Bayo again

 

[Minordeth]

Mistake vs Falln:

Pregame: Mistake needs to keep his cool if he wants a chance here. He knows his punish game is good, but he fishes so hard when he is against the ropes.

Game 1
Bad Witch Time. But made up for it!

Falln playing shaky defense.

Game 2 and 3
Falln isn’t anticipating at all. Seems like autopilot.

Mistake. Damn.

Falln with the reverse taunt. To death?

Mistake doing good getting rid of Luma onstage.

Falln missing upsmashes.

Mistake Bair fishing for free.

Falln’s Uair timing is too loose to juggle. And misses an anti air. My god he is playing way risky on the ledge. And predictable.

And that’s it. Played Falln hard.

Mistake 3-0.

 

[Lord Dio]

well, that last game looked like a struggle. MVD falling prey to ledge camping again.
Had a decent first two games though, he's been moving the whole weekend.

 

[Minordeth]

Running commentary distracting me.

MVD vs Salem:

MVD started out so well, good combo mixups and banana use. But then Salem capitalized on MVDs inability to kill in game 3 and MVD got tilted. Which Salem ran with.

EDIT WTF DABAYO

 

[PLATINUM7]

Darosa's Luma certainly helped with that match. Soaking up the limit attacks and allowing for punishes.

Name's nowhere near as good as Dabayo though.

 

[TDK]

I don't even want to watch this tournament anymore

 

[Minordeth]

Dabuz vs MKLeo

Omg. Dabuz. This is so weird to watch. And he takes game 1. And now Leo goes Marth.

Dabuz taking too many risks. MKLeo’s Marth is tough to break open if you don’t have a lead. And that was a two stock.

In Game 3 Leo catching Dabuz’s Bayo habits.

Game 4: Rosa now. Oh my God. Dabuz in game 5 with Leo. And MKLeo is going battlefield.

Oh my god. That’s a heartbreaker. What an intense set, holy crap.

That was absolutely nuts.

 

[Nu~]

CRAAAAAAAP

I wanted that for him so much TT_TT

 

[The-Technique]

Dabuz's Rosa looked way better vs Leo's Cloud than it has ever been compared to previous times they've played. That was a really close set.

 

[Lord Dio]

Holy ****
THAT SET
WAS SO GOOD

People have said it b4, I'll say it for the first time: Leo's adaptaion is godlike. Gets two-stocked, figures out what to do, switches, and two-stocks dabuz, then goes back to cloud and wins game 3.

That game 5 though. Leo's been eating his Lifesavers.
Edit, Imma talk later on main thread botu something I've been thinking about That Game 1 reminded me of.

 

[Goombo]

Now this was a great set.

Movement from both players was fantastic, the counterpickings interesting, the last minute absurdly exiting.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Dabuz vs MKLeo definitely came down to the wire.

Limit charges right as Luma respawns right near the end. Very tense match.

I agree with the commentary that Dabuz should be feeling he can take down Leo next time.

 

[Lord Dio]

*Leo switches to Marth Game 2*
Mr E on chat: "I trained Dabuz for this, he knows the mu, he's prepared"
Me: Lol, nobody's ever prepared for Leo

 

[Minordeth]

TDK -

I’m not gonna lie, Dabuz’s Rosa looking more solid against Leo’s Cloud. He did a good job punishing some of Leo’s Cloud specific habits with Rosa, which made quite a difference.

Lord Dio -

Yeah, Mr. E and Leo are vastly different players with Marth. Leo has really put in the work for the Bayo/Marth MU.

 

[Lord Dio]

Yeah, Mr. E and Leo are vastly different players with Marth. Leo has really put in the work for the Bayo/Marth MU.

which is something I'll mention when I make that post, yeah.
Leo making himself a strong contender behind dabuz for bayo killer.

And Nairo speedruns MVD

 

[PLATINUM7]

And Nairo speedruns MVD

I feel like I blinked and MVD was gone.

 

[TDK]

I'll make some analysis of the Leo vs Dabuz set once the VODs go up and I can actually focus on what happened

And mistake for the love of god quit using heel slide

 

[Nu~]

I need a Leo V. Dabuz GFs

 

[Minordeth]

Omg, D1 noticed Mistake trying to Witch Time Rosa’s recovery again, and when he brought it to TK, TK tried to rationalize it. Like, “a Top Player in Top 8 should obviously know something so basic, he must have been doing something else.”

 

[Lord Dio]

Mistake's looking like Smash con '16 Nairo out here, flip kick bair and all

 

[Minordeth]

Mistake vs Dabuz:

Dabuz playing really conservatively. Playing a little cold.

Okay, starting to warm up.

Mistake... tried to Witch Time Rosa’s recovery. What.

Mistake tried to approach with heel slide 3 times basically in a row in neutral and got hard punished and then finally killed.

And finally Mistake went ZSS. Took a game. But now back to Bayo. And Dabuz is missing punishes as this game 4 goes on.

Game 5: what is Dabuz doing? He is being needlessly aggressive. Omg.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Wha..Wha? That was one reverse 3-0 I did not think was going to happen

 

[Lord Dio]

Game 5's final moments:
Mistake does a smart thing, and murders Luma within seconds of reappearing, which he was really good at the whole set.
2 seconds later.....
He tries to witch time rosa's up b and gets bair'ed for it.

 

[TDK]

The fact that Mistake can pick absurdly dumb options over and over and still beat top 10 players is beyond frustrating

 

[Nu~]

Dream d e a d

 

[Minordeth]

I’m kind of blown away.

Mistake is really good at punishing. That can absolutely win you a tourney. But he has a dreadful neutral and poor defensive habits.

But again, that punish game. All that has to happen is for his opponent to not punish him and take substantially more risks.

 

[chaos11011]

Every person I've cheered for has lost so far, good thing I'm not a betting man.

 

[Lord Dio]

That game 2 though.....Leo's savage.

 

[The-Technique]

Regarding the Marth v Bayo matchup, Nairo insists that Marth loses it and Bayo's are just playing poorly versus him.

But damn Leo makes it look damn near unwinnable.

 

[Minordeth]

Salem... doesn’t have an answer for Leo’s Marth.

Like, Leo is picking apart a lot of Bayo’s intrinsic weaknesses. It’s not like Salem is playing like Mistake, he doesn’t keep taking dumb options. He’s going to have to play that MU like a battle of attrition more than he is. Maybe.

 

[epicnights]

MKLeo was just threatening Salem into shield with tippered anti-air aerials all throughout game 3. That was crazy.