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The General Bandai-Namco Discussion Thread

Which Bandai-Namco characters would you like to see get in?


  • Total voters
    99

RetrogamerMax

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I don't know anything about Tales and it's pretty odd that it's in S Tier alone, I don't recall someone talking about it and it seems that the popularity is pretty much the same as DQ but a little smaller. Is it because it's the only mii costume that hasn't yet returned that you put it higher?
The Lloyd Mii costume along with the Monster Hunter and Rathalos ones are the only remaining missing DLC Mii costumes from Smash 4. That's probably why he placed Tales Of higher plus Tales Of being the 3rd best selling JRPG franchise in Japan only behind Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
 

DanganZilla5

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I don't know anything about Tales and it's pretty odd that it's in S Tier alone, I don't recall someone talking about it and it seems that the popularity is pretty much the same as DQ but a little smaller or worst yet the same as Idolm@ster (though that's a bit of an exaggeration). Is it because it's the only mii costume that hasn't yet returned that you put it higher?
The Lloyd Mii costume along with the Monster Hunter and Rathalos ones are the only remaining missing DLC Mii costumes from Smash 4. That's probably why he placed Tales Of higher plus Tales Of being the 3rd best selling JRPG franchise in Japan only behind Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
That, plus Lloyd seems to be well regarded by Sakurai considering that not only did he make a Mii costume of him, but also he said that Lloyd was the best rep for the series. Plus the Japanese just love their RPGs. So yeah I'm very confident in Lloyd and by extension, Tales, and just because the vast majority of the Mii costumes returned, that does not mean that Lloyd has to join them too.
 

SharkLord

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That, plus Lloyd seems to be well regarded by Sakurai considering that not only did he make a Mii costume of him, but also he said that Lloyd was the best rep for the series. Plus the Japanese just love their RPGs. So yeah I'm very confident in Lloyd and by extension, Tales, and just because the vast majority of the Mii costumes returned, that does not mean that Lloyd has to join them too.
Something I think is worth noting regarding Lloyd is that out of all the returning third-party Miis, Tales is the only one to have absolutely NOTHING in the base game. As in, nothing at all. No Spirits, no ATs, not even a sprite in Pac-Man's Namco Roulette. To put it into perspective:
  • Knuckles, Zero, and Akira have Assist Trophies
  • Tails and Geno have Spirits
  • Proto Man, X, and MegaMan.EXE appear in Mega Man's Final Smash on top of being Spirits
  • Heihachi and Gil are part of Pac-Man's Namco Roulette
  • Chocobo isn't directly represented, but it at least has Cloud to represent it's series. Same with the Hunters and Rathalos, if we're counting them
Regardless of Lloyd's chances, you gotta admit it's pretty odd. Apparently Heihachi needed a custom sprite for the Namco Roulette while Lloyd already had one, and if that's true the whole thing gets even stranger.
 

ES. Dinah

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I don't want to go on a tangent here but I don't see KOS-MOS having a shot. The series is dead, a HD collection was said to be not profitable enough, and Nintendo would certainly go with Rex instead. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't see a realistic timeline where she happens.
Shulk's original Xenoblade chronicles game bombed and he's in smash. Shulk had no other game until his popularity in smash restored and greenlighted future Xenoblade entries. Monolith Soft even admitted that having him in smash helped a lot https://gamingbolt.com/xenoblade-ch...cers-credit-shulk-in-smash-as-huge-for-series

Anyway if you think KOS-MOS is dead then you're simply wrong. So I ask you if she got in why can't she do the same thing Shulk did? Give her series more recognition and love.

 
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DanganZilla5

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Shulk's original Xenoblade chronicles game bombed and he's in smash. Shulk had no other game until his popularity in smash restored and greenlighted future Xenoblade entries. Monolith Soft even admitted that having him in smash helped a lot https://gamingbolt.com/xenoblade-ch...cers-credit-shulk-in-smash-as-huge-for-series

Anyway if you think KOS-MOS is dead then you're simply wrong. So I ask you if she got in why can't she do the same thing Shulk did? Give her series more recognition and love.

I simply said that she was unlikely. Not that it's impossible. Plus we are talking about DLC here, and Shulk got in the base roster. If he didn't make it in the base roster, then I would say the same thing to him: It's risky selling a character by themselves whose game flopped.
 
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ES. Dinah

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I simply said that she was unlikely. Not that it's impossible. Plus we are talking about DLC here, and Shulk got in the base roster. If he didn't make it in the base roster, then I would say the say thing to him: It's risky selling a character by themselves whose game flopped.
Well I'm not entirely sure where Nintendo said they pick dlc based off games characters that did phenomenally well. We have Terry and his company has a bit of history with going bankrupt, Banjo sure had fan demand but his series is not up to date with any new games, I dont think Min Min was popular until she won a tournament and Yabuki picked her over Spring Man. My point is that the dlc choices are built to be unexpected. I mean sure Sephiroth and Steve are HUGE but does that mean every character needs to be from a huge money making series?
 

DanganZilla5

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Well I'm not entirely sure where Nintendo said they pick dlc based off games characters that did phenomenally well. We have Terry and his company has a bit of history with going bankrupt, Banjo sure had fan demand but his series is not up to date with any new games, I dont think Min Min was popular until she won a tournament and Yabuki picked her over Spring Man. My point is that the dlc choices are built to be unexpected. I mean sure Sephiroth and Steve are HUGE but does that mean every character needs to be from a huge money making series?
I did not say that the characters needs to come from a highly successful series. Also, I doubt that Nintendo is choosing characters because they are "unexpected" for the sake of being unexpected. And while this was not your main point, I would not compare KOS-MOS to Terry, Banjo, and Min Min. Terry directly influenced Smash, plus King of Fighters still gets games. Banjo was probably the most requested third party character, and Min Min is completely owned by Nintendo.
 

SharkLord

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Shulk's original Xenoblade chronicles game bombed and he's in smash. Shulk had no other game until his popularity in smash restored and greenlighted future Xenoblade entries. Monolith Soft even admitted that having him in smash helped a lot https://gamingbolt.com/xenoblade-ch...cers-credit-shulk-in-smash-as-huge-for-series

Anyway if you think KOS-MOS is dead then you're simply wrong. So I ask you if she got in why can't she do the same thing Shulk did? Give her series more recognition and love.

I think the difference here is that Xenoblade is a Nintendo IP and Xenosaga isn't. Nintendo wanted to expand Xenoblade, and it worked, yes, but Xenosaga isn't their game; It's Bandai-Namco's. It's not as easy for Nintendo to just decide "Hmm, I want to expand this series," especially seeing as Xenoblade was made as a spiritual successor to Xenosaga because the latter didn't do as well as hoped. The main thing going for KOS-MOS is that MonoSoft loves her, but MonoSoft isn't calling the shots. She's sandwiched between Nintendo-owned Xenoblade characters, who were successful and/or could be made successful with the right push, and Bandai-Namco's other IPs, many of which are huge and would make a more appealing option.

Sure, we have Terry and Banjo, but their circumstances are different. The former is the face of SNK, who was big in the arcade scene, heavily influenced Smash, and supported the Switch early on, so it had a lot of legacy and could potentially seal a new partner for Nintendo. The latter was extremely popular, being a consistent poll-topper since Brawl, and arguably even back to Melee. They were also some of the biggest options for their respective companies; Terry was SNK's mascot and Banjo was far and away the most heavily-requested Microsoft character, plus having the bonus of coming alongside Steve, who's from the biggest game ever and covered the bases Banjo didn't. In comparison, KOS-MOS is just a lot smaller.

Not saying she's impossible, but she's not exactly likely.
 

Commander_Alph

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People always say that
Terry directly influenced Smash, plus King of Fighters still gets games.
This part tells me that Terry inclusion doesn't have any relation to being an inspiration to Smash cause somehow it plays off as if Nintendo is on a good mood that day and just granted Sakurai's wish, then again this could be said to Joker. What's next, schump game inspired Sakurai on game developing therefore we certainly get a schump rep?
 
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RetrogamerMax

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People always say that

This part tells me that Terry inclusion doesn't have any relation to being an inspiration to Smash cause somehow it plays off as if Nintendo is on a good mood that day and just granted Sakurai's wish, then again this could be said to Joker. What's next, schump game inspired Sakurai on game developing therefore we certainly get a schump rep?
Actually, it's true that Fatal Fury/King of Fighters was inspiration for Smash Bros. as the first time the core idea of Dragon King aka Smash Bros. first popped up in Sakurai's head was after he rekt a couple in a game of King of Fighters and feeling sorry about it afterwards. Here is a video from Video Game Story Time explaining some of that:

 
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MattX20

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KOS-MOS is the crossover queen for Bandai Namco, much like how Morrigan is for Capcom. While it's true that KOS-MOS' series hasn't had any new installments in over a decade, she still appears quite often in various other titles Bandai Namco makes and I don't think it's wise to count her out entirely.
 

ES. Dinah

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I did not say that the characters needs to come from a highly successful series. Also, I doubt that Nintendo is choosing characters because they are "unexpected" for the sake of being unexpected. And while this was not your main point, I would not compare KOS-MOS to Terry, Banjo, and Min Min. Terry directly influenced Smash, plus King of Fighters still gets games. Banjo was probably the most requested third party character, and Min Min is completely owned by Nintendo.
KOS-MOS got a game.... Xenoblade 2 spiritual successor. She even topped the twitter charts and all she is there is a cameo. That also led to her getting a extremely popular new figurine based on her Xenoblade 2 version. Her situation is just that she's massively more popular than her own game and that's why she sticks around. Namco and Monolith clearly do love her so her in smash although not the most likely is still realistically possible.

KOS-MOS popularity.jpg


I'm not trying to say she's happening at all... just that I don't get the whole "her series is dead" argument. Sometimes series can be connected through other means without getting a new entry. KOS-MOS is the symbol of Xeno or even the mythos so she's super important for that alone.
 

Louie G.

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KOS-MOS is the crossover queen for Bandai Namco, much like how Morrigan is for Capcom. While it's true that KOS-MOS' series hasn't had any new installments in over a decade, she still appears quite often in various other titles Bandai Namco makes and I don't think it's wise to count her out entirely.
For what it's worth, isn't KOS-MOS' prominence in those games because of Monolith Soft's own involvement? Namco x Capcom and Project X Zone, specifically.

Mind you this doesn't snub KOS-MOS out of the running entirely, but I feel the context is probably pretty important there. I feel her best chances lie in Nintendo deciding specifically that they want to show Monolith Soft some love.

I also feel like the comparison to Morrigan is valid, but Morrigan has prompted a much more significant cultural impact and is largely a far more recognizable and popular character. Despite this she is never really perceived as a likely candidate for Capcom because of many other characters who are just as notable (or moreso) and also far more profitable and relevant.

And I mean, Morrigan is literally one of my three most wanted characters so this is me being bluntly honest about it. I like KOS-MOS and she's actually one of my favorite picks from Namco, but the comparison to Morrigan really highlights that like... nobody is expecting Morrigan over MonHun or Dante. So why is it different for KOS-MOS?
 
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SharkLord

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For what it's worth, isn't KOS-MOS' prominence in those games because of Monolith Soft's own involvement? Namco x Capcom and Project X Zone, specifically.

Mind you this doesn't snub KOS-MOS out of the running entirely, but I feel the context is probably pretty important there. I feel her best chances lie in Nintendo deciding specifically that they want to show Monolith Soft some love.

I also feel like the comparison to Morrigan is valid, but Morrigan has prompted a much more significant cultural impact and is largely a far more recognizable and popular character. Despite this she is never really perceived as a likely candidate for Capcom because of many other characters who are just as notable (or moreso) and also far more profitable and relevant.

And I mean, Morrigan is literally one of my three most wanted characters so this is me being bluntly honest about it.
Pretty much this. KOS-MOS' problem is that most of her support comes from MonoSoft, not Bandai-Namco or Nintendo. One could call her the Terry of MonoSoft in that her home series died out and she mostly appears in other games now, but unlike Terry, KOS-MOS isn't owned by MonoSoft in the first place, leaving her stuck with some fierce competition against other Bamco games like Tales or Dark Souls as well as other, Nintendo-owned Xenoblade characters for Nintendo to push.

But hey, look on the bright side: At least she's not as dead as Klonoa
Hahaha...
 

Ornl

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My opinion about KOS-MOS is without nuance. I think she is unsaleable to a wide customer base. She is popular in Smash communities, but her name was repeated at first mainly because she was among the absent as a spirit. She isn't ultimate, and I couldn't say :
– "KOS-MOS is the best pick to represent Bamco with Pac-Man, so she is more ultimate than Heihachi and Tales",
– "KOS-MOS is the best 3rd-party JRPG pick after Cloud, Joker, Hero and Sephiroth",
– "KOS-MOS is the best 3rd-party female pick after Bayonetta, and the best android/mecha pick after Mega-Man, so she is more ultimate than 2B",
– "Players will be excited that KOS-MOS is one of the last three Fighters ; reactions on social networks will share a lot of joy".
 

DanganZilla5

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Alright, KOS-MOS has a chance, albeit a small chance, but a chance no less. I could see her being playable if Monolith Soft really pushed Nintendo to include her and Nintendo wants to throw them a bone. I will admit that. But that will take a specific set of circumstances to happen.

That is my stance and I'm sticking with it. You can say that she has a good chance and I respect it, even if I disagree. To make things clear, I have nothing against KOS-MOS. I think she is cool and I enjoy her in Project X Zone. If she did get in, then eventually I will get around to her inclusion. I'm sure she would be fun.

That is all.
 

Commander_Alph

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– "KOS-MOS is the best pick to represent Bamco with Pac-Man, so she is more ultimate than Heihachi and Tales",
Oh wait, you're trying to disqualify her.


But seriously, in my eyes the best series that represent Bamco is either Digimon, Dark Souls and possibly Tales but I doubt he's getting in because his game is the 3rd best selling.
 
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Ornl

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Uhhh.. what? You're saying that a character that has been reduced to just appearing in a crossover after their game being deemed unprofitable represent Bamco perfectly? You know that crossover is just a royalty not double standard.
This affirmations seem impossible to me about KOS-MOS:
– "she is the best pick to represent Bamco with Pac-Man, so she is more ultimate than Heihachi and Tales",
– "she is the best 3rd-party JRPG pick after Cloud, Joker, Hero and Sephiroth",
– "she is the best 3rd-party female pick after Bayonetta, and the best android/mecha pick after Mega-Man, so she is more ultimate than 2B",
– "Players will be excited that she is one of the last three Fighters ; reactions on social networks will share a lot of joy".
 

Commander_Alph

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This affirmations seem impossible to me about KOS-MOS:
– "she is the best pick to represent Bamco with Pac-Man, so she is more ultimate than Heihachi and Tales",
– "she is the best 3rd-party JRPG pick after Cloud, Joker, Hero and Sephiroth",
– "she is the best 3rd-party female pick after Bayonetta, and the best android/mecha pick after Mega-Man, so she is more ultimate than 2B",
– "Players will be excited that she is one of the last three Fighters ; reactions on social networks will share a lot of joy".
Yeah, I ****ed up, I didn't read it thoroughly.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I don't think we're gonna get any Tekken/Soul Calibur characters because I think it'd be impossible to translate it's 3D gameplay into Smash in a satisfactory way. They already considered Keihachi and I imagine they came to that conclusion which is why they canned the idea.
This was back in Smash 4, over five years ago.

We don't know if Heihachi met the same problem for Ultimate or if he simply just wasn't chosen.

That, plus Lloyd seems to be well regarded by Sakurai considering that not only did he make a Mii costume of him, but also he said that Lloyd was the best rep for the series.
That was five years ago and it was specifically for the costume, if I recall correctly.

It's possible he still thinks that for a playable spot, or that he changed his mind and sees someone like Yuri or Velvet as more fitting.

And even then, Sakurai's opinion barely matters since he's not the one making the calls for DLC, Nintendo is.
 
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SharkLord

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That was five years ago and it was specifically for the costume, if I recall correctly.

It's possible he still thinks that for a playable spot, or that he changed his mind and sees someone like Yuri or Velvet as more fitting.

And even then, Sakurai's opinion barely matters since he's not the one making the calls for DLC, Nintendo is.
Yeah, I think the main thing in his favor is that he's the most heavily-requested Tales character for Smash, which Nintendo would likely be looking at. If we're going off of raw sales figures, I believe Symphonia's sold more than Vesperia as well, at least when you take every version into account, so that may indicate he's more well-known by the general audience as well.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Yeah, I think the main thing in his favor is that he's the most heavily-requested Tales character for Smash, which Nintendo would likely be looking at. If we're going off of raw sales figures, I believe Symphonia's sold more than Vesperia as well, at least when you take every version into account, so that may indicate he's more well-known by the general audience as well.
And yet Vesperia is the one that got the remaster on Switch, not Symphonia.

As dumb as it may sound, the sales of a game may not reflect on how popular it'll be 20 years later.
 

Velvet Rebirth

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This was back in Smash 4, over five years ago.

We don't know if Heihachi met the same problem for Ultimate or if he simply just wasn't chosen.
In my hypothetical the reason for his exclusion would not change going into Ultimate. The gameplay has not fundamentally changed to accommodate a gameplan that utilizes a third axis
 

SharkLord

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And yet Vesperia is the one that got the remaster on Switch, not Symphonia.

As dumb as it may sound, the sales of a game may not reflect on how popular it'll be 20 years later.
To be fair, didn't Vesperia get a lot of requests for a definitive edition? It was confined to the Xbox at first, then the PS3 version went unlocalized, so I think that may have had an influence on the demand for Vesperia DE.

Granted, I don't know Tales that well. I'm mostly just theorizing here.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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In my hypothetical the reason for his exclusion would not change going into Ultimate. The gameplay has not fundamentally changed to accommodate a gameplan that utilizes a third axis
And yet Min Min found her way into Smash, so I definitely don't think 3D movement is the issue for a Tekken character.

I think it's probably related to the movesets, either trying to boil down the absolutely massive move lists into a condensed version for Smash or simply trying to figure out a way to make the juggle combos fun without being relatively OP in the context of Smash.
 

SharkLord

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And yet Min Min found her way into Smash, so I definitely don't think 3D movement is the issue for a Tekken character.

I think it's probably related to the movesets, either trying to boil down the absolutely massive move lists into a condensed version for Smash or simply trying to figure out a way to make the juggle combos fun without being relatively OP in the context of Smash.
Yeah, doesn't Heihachi or Kazuya have like sixty different moves as of Tekken 7? That might be a bit tricky to translate.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Me and a close friend of mine was talking about this the other day, but he was asking me if any Soul Calibur game was on the Switch and responed with "I don't think so.". It's weird they didn't port Soul Calibur 2 or 6 to the Switch yet. Maybe they're waiting to put Soul Calibur 7 on the Switch whenever that comes out. It is a little suspicious that no Soul Calibur port has yet to surface on the Switch yet with how successful the Switch is.
 
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Commander_Alph

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And yet Min Min found her way into Smash, so I definitely don't think 3D movement is the issue for a Tekken character.

I think it's probably related to the movesets, either trying to boil down the absolutely massive move lists into a condensed version for Smash or simply trying to figure out a way to make the juggle combos fun without being relatively OP in the context of Smash.
I mean yeah that's reasonable since ARMS lack any combo mechanic but still, Tekken combo mechanic is such a hassle to pull off on something like Smash. For Soul Calibur tho I don't know since I'm kinda struggling to pull off wall combo with just 1 character.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I mean yeah that's reasonable since ARMS lack any combo mechanic but still
It still heavily relied on that 3D space due to how much control you have on where the ARMS go, so I could argue the 3D aspect mattered even more for Min Min than it would for a Tekken or Soul rep

, Tekken combo mechanic is such a hassle to pull off on something like Smash. For Soul Calibur tho I don't know since I'm kinda struggling to pull off wall combo.
Some Soul characters don't have a lot of combos. Nightmare in particular doesn't have anything beyond three moves on his combos in VI, iirc.

Compare that to Tekken, where each character has at least one 11-hit combo.
 

RetrogamerMax

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If you include all the combo strings as unique moves, I think we're around 150 for each.
That totally explains why Sakurai thought it was too hard to implement a moveset for Heihachi in Smash 4 and why he didn't add him:

 

Velvet Rebirth

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And yet Min Min found her way into Smash, so I definitely don't think 3D movement is the issue for a Tekken character.

I think it's probably related to the movesets, either trying to boil down the absolutely massive move lists into a condensed version for Smash or simply trying to figure out a way to make the juggle combos fun without being relatively OP in the context of Smash.
That would be because at it's core ARMS is not about 3D movement, it's about long, far reaching attacks. This translates well to Smash, as it allows Min Min to be characterized as a zoner, an archetype that is quite common in 2D fighters, with it's own twist of course.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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By which I mean counting literally counting every single input.

It'd basically be the equivalent of saying Marth has 18 side specials due to the many combinations you can do.

In other words, I'm making it sound worse than it actually is.
 
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SSBCandidates

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Seeing as there is more support for the Alexandra sisters now, I want to say that my choices would be Sophitia Alexandra and/or her sister Cassandra Alexandra. But since they are not there, I will not vote for any choice yet.

By the way, was it ever clear if Rolling Thunder is a game series or the games were based on some comic from Hong Kong?
 
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