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The Lloyd Mii costume along with the Monster Hunter and Rathalos ones are the only remaining missing DLC Mii costumes from Smash 4. That's probably why he placed Tales Of higher plus Tales Of being the 3rd best selling JRPG franchise in Japan only behind Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
That, plus Lloyd seems to be well regarded by Sakurai considering that not only did he make a Mii costume of him, but also he said that Lloyd was the best rep for the series. Plus the Japanese just love their RPGs. So yeah I'm very confident in Lloyd and by extension, Tales, and just because the vast majority of the Mii costumes returned, that does not mean that Lloyd has to join them too.
Something I think is worth noting regarding Lloyd is that out of all the returning third-party Miis, Tales is the only one to have absolutely NOTHING in the base game. As in, nothing at all. No Spirits, no ATs, not even a sprite in Pac-Man's Namco Roulette. To put it into perspective:
Regardless of Lloyd's chances, you gotta admit it's pretty odd. Apparently Heihachi needed a custom sprite for the Namco Roulette while Lloyd already had one, and if that's true the whole thing gets even stranger.
Shulk's original Xenoblade chronicles game bombed and he's in smash. Shulk had no other game until his popularity in smash restored and greenlighted future Xenoblade entries. Monolith Soft even admitted that having him in smash helped a lot https://gamingbolt.com/xenoblade-ch...cers-credit-shulk-in-smash-as-huge-for-series
I simply said that she was unlikely. Not that it's impossible. Plus we are talking about DLC here, and Shulk got in the base roster. If he didn't make it in the base roster, then I would say the same thing to him: It's risky selling a character by themselves whose game flopped.
Well I'm not entirely sure where Nintendo said they pick dlc based off games characters that did phenomenally well. We have Terry and his company has a bit of history with going bankrupt, Banjo sure had fan demand but his series is not up to date with any new games, I dont think Min Min was popular until she won a tournament and Yabuki picked her over Spring Man. My point is that the dlc choices are built to be unexpected. I mean sure Sephiroth and Steve are HUGE but does that mean every character needs to be from a huge money making series?
I did not say that the characters needs to come from a highly successful series. Also, I doubt that Nintendo is choosing characters because they are "unexpected" for the sake of being unexpected. And while this was not your main point, I would not compare KOS-MOS to Terry, Banjo, and Min Min. Terry directly influenced Smash, plus King of Fighters still gets games. Banjo was probably the most requested third party character, and Min Min is completely owned by Nintendo.
I think the difference here is that Xenoblade is a Nintendo IP and Xenosaga isn't. Nintendo wanted to expand Xenoblade, and it worked, yes, but Xenosaga isn't their game; It's Bandai-Namco's. It's not as easy for Nintendo to just decide "Hmm, I want to expand this series," especially seeing as Xenoblade was made as a spiritual successor to Xenosaga because the latter didn't do as well as hoped. The main thing going for KOS-MOS is that MonoSoft loves her, but MonoSoft isn't calling the shots. She's sandwiched between Nintendo-owned Xenoblade characters, who were successful and/or could be made successful with the right push, and Bandai-Namco's other IPs, many of which are huge and would make a more appealing option.
This part tells me that Terry inclusion doesn't have any relation to being an inspiration to Smash cause somehow it plays off as if Nintendo is on a good mood that day and just granted Sakurai's wish, then again this could be said to Joker. What's next, schump game inspired Sakurai on game developing therefore we certainly get a schump rep?
Actually, it's true that Fatal Fury/King of Fighters was inspiration for Smash Bros. as the first time the core idea of Dragon King aka Smash Bros. first popped up in Sakurai's head was after he rekt a couple in a game of King of Fighters and feeling sorry about it afterwards. Here is a video from Video Game Story Time explaining some of that:
KOS-MOS got a game.... Xenoblade 2 spiritual successor. She even topped the twitter charts and all she is there is a cameo. That also led to her getting a extremely popular new figurine based on her Xenoblade 2 version. Her situation is just that she's massively more popular than her own game and that's why she sticks around. Namco and Monolith clearly do love her so her in smash although not the most likely is still realistically possible.
For what it's worth, isn't KOS-MOS' prominence in those games because of Monolith Soft's own involvement? Namco x Capcom and Project X Zone, specifically.
Pretty much this. KOS-MOS' problem is that most of her support comes from MonoSoft, not Bandai-Namco or Nintendo. One could call her the Terry of MonoSoft in that her home series died out and she mostly appears in other games now, but unlike Terry, KOS-MOS isn't owned by MonoSoft in the first place, leaving her stuck with some fierce competition against other Bamco games like Tales or Dark Souls as well as other, Nintendo-owned Xenoblade characters for Nintendo to push.
Oh wait, you're trying to disqualify her.
This affirmations seem impossible to me about KOS-MOS:
Yeah, I ****ed up, I didn't read it thoroughly.
This was back in Smash 4, over five years ago.
That was five years ago and it was specifically for the costume, if I recall correctly.
Yeah, I think the main thing in his favor is that he's the most heavily-requested Tales character for Smash, which Nintendo would likely be looking at. If we're going off of raw sales figures, I believe Symphonia's sold more than Vesperia as well, at least when you take every version into account, so that may indicate he's more well-known by the general audience as well.
And yet Vesperia is the one that got the remaster on Switch, not Symphonia.
In my hypothetical the reason for his exclusion would not change going into Ultimate. The gameplay has not fundamentally changed to accommodate a gameplan that utilizes a third axis
To be fair, didn't Vesperia get a lot of requests for a definitive edition? It was confined to the Xbox at first, then the PS3 version went unlocalized, so I think that may have had an influence on the demand for Vesperia DE.
And yet Min Min found her way into Smash, so I definitely don't think 3D movement is the issue for a Tekken character.
Yeah, doesn't Heihachi or Kazuya have like sixty different moves as of Tekken 7? That might be a bit tricky to translate.
I mean yeah that's reasonable since ARMS lack any combo mechanic but still, Tekken combo mechanic is such a hassle to pull off on something like Smash. For Soul Calibur tho I don't know since I'm kinda struggling to pull off wall combo with just 1 character.
If you include all the combo strings as unique moves, I think we're around 150 for each.
It still heavily relied on that 3D space due to how much control you have on where the ARMS go, so I could argue the 3D aspect mattered even more for Min Min than it would for a Tekken or Soul rep
Some Soul characters don't have a lot of combos. Nightmare in particular doesn't have anything beyond three moves on his combos in VI, iirc.
That totally explains why Sakurai thought it was too hard to implement a moveset for Heihachi in Smash 4 and why he didn't add him:
sourcegaming.info
That would be because at it's core ARMS is not about 3D movement, it's about long, far reaching attacks. This translates well to Smash, as it allows Min Min to be characterized as a zoner, an archetype that is quite common in 2D fighters, with it's own twist of course.
By which I mean counting literally counting every single input.
If it's any consolation, Tekken movesets can be quantity over quality. Sakurai would definitely trim the fat.
I think you're thinking of the 10-hit combo moves, and those are examples of fat that would be trimmed.
Great job! You did good.
Good job on this
If the Custom Newcomer Icons thread wasn't so dead, this would be a worthy addition to it.
