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The Full Smash 64 Learning Curve (MASSIVE UPDATES)

Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
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Heh. Above level five it gets a lot harder to differentiate. Anyone can work on their combo ability all day, but without the first hit the rest of the combo is useless. As the players advance, I think skill is more determined by one's ability to capitalize on someone else's mistakes while minimizing one's own, in everything from combo execution, approaches, DI, abusing level specific stuff, etc....
 
_kSo_

_kSo_

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 4, 2006
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Word, wenbo has a point. m3tr01d also has a point. The fact that malva is so much further ahead than the rest of us makes it that level 5 would need like 5 parts instead of 2. with malva at 5, superboom johnny park in 4, and so on. execution goes to level 5 part 1. if you ascended execution (never miss techs or cancels and if opponent doesn't DI, can finish practiced combos perfectly almost every time).

so basically

Part 2 - basic mind games are implemented, including DD grabbing, doing upb straight up (aka fox) and fastfalling at opportune moments to grab the ledge. Also, tech chasing perfectly almost every time

Part 3 - basic mind games are enhanced with more technical mind games such as improvising combos when minor mistakes are made or obstacles approach (tornadoes). Still able to z2d combo a player even if he/she DI's.

Part 4 - Can perfectly perform said mind games in part 2 and part 3, with other techniques such as implementing combo resets into their game, jump resetting (aka ledge hopping to gain 2nd jump back) and inescapable tech chases (aka let them fall on a platform in hyrule and falcon upb into the left side, so if they bounce - they get thrown, if they tech in place, they get thrown, if they tech to the left or right, they'll get thrown. ) Can also understand part 2 and 3 mind games enough to sense and guess well on what is being implemented upon them

Part 5 - isai, johnny and perhaps some japanese people are in this category. but mostly isai. this level is the ultimate stage of mind games. They are even so powerful that they can intentionally perform Deluxe Mind Games (sorry, i HAD to put that). Knows every combo that can be performed in the game, and knows how to DI to get out of every one of them. Knows character matchups, understands every aspect of the game and can out mindgame any part 2-4 player.

So you can see, I had a lot to say, but hopefully if you guys like it, we can tweak it to make a final version and implement it into the ranking system :)
 
_kSo_

_kSo_

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I don't think thats beyond them at all. One of the best guilty gear players in the world is like that. To get that good, he spent 6 hrs a day practicing every character's combos. and then he practiced getting out of them. Apparently theres a thing in training mode that lets you do that, but not so much for smash, which makes it harder. But yea if he did it, why not isai?
 
M

M3tr01D

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
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Olympia, WA
well because there is too many moves that might link together only against certain characters on certain stages. 12 characters that could be fighting any of the other 12 characters on any of the 9 stages is too many possibilities.
 
_kSo_

_kSo_

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Hmm, thats true; In guilty gear, there are no stage differences so the character combos work on every stage...ok well maybe i should reword it to say like "knows nearly every combo able to be done in the game." I think that should be able to sum it up kuz like if you know enough of the combos, you can improvise almost perfectly as well

also, valoem (or anybody) do you think what i wrote before is good to incooperate into your guide?
 
R

Rupus

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Feb 10, 2005
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Salisbury, England
I think you should change it to "Is able to perform some very complex combos" or something of the sort. When you think about it, Fox's Dair can go into almost any of his moves, where you can then do something completely different out of each of them.

Oh, and GG's combo system is far different to SSB's, due to things like RC's, FRC's etc. etc. So again, while the best GGXX player might know most, I doubt he knows all =]
 
_kSo_

_kSo_

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I suppose your right.

I forget where I had heard that from, but like thats still a ridiculous amount of combos to know. i don't put it past him. Hopefully valoem can get on swf and read this
 
B

Blue Bird

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
52
Location
Brazil
ROFLMAO!!! I'm back. Look at my post back in the front page, me saying I was level 4. xDDD When I was actually still level 3. :p Right now I can put myself at level 4 though. o.o Figured out how to combo. I don't think I'll get much better though since I play with keyboard. :p
 
karterfreak

karterfreak

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
39
there should be one more level on there... Isai

Can 5 stock just about every level, mastered tons of combos, etc. :laugh:

ontopic: i would put myself at around a level 4 right now, maybe a level 5 part 1.
 
Lawrencelot

Lawrencelot

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Jun 18, 2006
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This looks nice. However, my learning curve was very very different. I've never played or seen ssb64 on the N64, and I was already a good player with melee before I started playing ssb64 on kaillera. Even now, I haven't touched a N64-controller, I only use keyboard. If anyone's interested, this is my learning curve:

1) Play the game after having played melee often enough to be good. In this phase I was mostly trying the controls, and adapt them (but not too much) to a good set of keys. Check which characters are in the game, what stages there are, and what the differences from melee are. Play some matches in training mode (I never played singleplayer). L-canceling was in the game, wavedashing not, try some other melee techniques.
2) Play on kaillera. Got ***** as I did this together with my phase 1, but after I got used to the controls I started getting better quickly. Pika became my main, although he was my worst char in melee together with kirby. Watch vids on youtube, of Isai and others. Since I knew shorthopping, Z-canceling, doublejumpcanceling, edgeguarding and almost all other techniques from melee, all I had to do is repeat the comboes I saw. This made me better than most noobs, although shorthop was hard for me to do, especially with fox, and Z-canceling didn't always work either.
3) Becoming fluently in the most important techniques, now I was able to not get owned by the better players out there. I knew there was enough to learn, but I thought I was a good pika, and since my country does not play this game on kaillera much, I thought I was one of the best of the netherlands on kaillera. Start making my own comboes, although uptilt/upair chains and imitating comboes are what I do most here.
4) Becoming good with all chars, it was not fun anymore using pika against noobs. This is the phase I'm in, and still I discover techniques like shorthop double lasering with fox, and although my pika is near it's best, other chars like my yoshi and mario need improvement. When fighting better players, mindgames are more important, and that's about the only thing that I can improve on, as are things that are hard to on on keyboard, like tilts. In reps emulinker, there aren't many players that can beat me, although there are some that match my level and that's the most fun fighting against. I don't lag much on emularena, but those mean americans just kick me because I have high ping... I can improve my skills in doubles though, I suck at teamplay.
 
Slurgly

Slurgly

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This location has been removed due to stalkers. An
I'm truthfully about a level 4. Although I still don't know what short hopping is. For a long time I was level 3 part 2 until i started playing online. It seems like most people who play melee aren't nearly as good as me. I think back to the last time I played melee and know that I could cream any person that I've ever played with before.
 
Surri-Sama

Surri-Sama

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thats just it see, people who comment abotuthis are just taking it to general, these lvels are for basic controle over gameplay, mindgames are what make you better after lvl 5.2, there are aLOT of 5.2 people playing on kaillera (well at least 50-60) and there are 6-7 of them who i know around my little town who are there, but tthe mind games that come after are what will make you good everything from how you DI to how you dont do anything for 10 seconds and wait for your foe to think theres something wrong then BAM sucker punch (Sucker punch is a real skill get used to it)
 
Vex Kasrani

Vex Kasrani

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Sirhc said:
thats just it see, people who comment abotuthis are just taking just takign it to general, these lvels are for basic controle over gameplay, mindgames are what make you better after lvl 5.2, there are aLOT of 5.2 people playing on kaillera (well at least 50-60) and there are 6-7 of them who i know around my little town who are there, but tthe mind games that come after are what will make you good
Click to expand...
Gar, wouldn't I be like a 5.3 - 5.4? 5.3 1/2?
 
CaptainFalconMaster

CaptainFalconMaster

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Oct 3, 2008
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Montreal
Man that learning curve got me confused and nostalgic at the same time !!!
I have moves from level 3 , 4 and 5 but I belong to neither... because i still think grabbing is great to unbalance the other player but i use short hop and all tilt attacks. I'm trying to z-cancel but its tricky with my ghetto controller and honestly, I always manage to finish a combo without the cancel. But the truth is I rarely play with human players. I don't know any that can measure to me at smash so I just try to finish off a CP at 99 lives with him taking the fewest lives from me..

Anyone can help tell my level ??
 
Tamoo

Tamoo

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Hmm, i reckon im in the transistion period between level 4 and level 5 part a. I thnk id mayb b fully in stage 5 part a if i cud short hop consistently on a keyboard lol.
And to above, seriously, 99 stock matches, whoa, i personally dont think playin against computers is helpful because they get you into bad habits because they are incredibly stupid.
 
Daedatheus

Daedatheus

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Toronto & Kingston, Ontario
CaptainFalconMaster said:
HAHAHA !!
true that... they are dum as **** !!
but what can I do ? nobody wants to play me..
Click to expand...
Start playing online!
Oh and play me on console one day :laugh:

I have the same problem, I can play many people, but they all suck. As a result my improvement recently has been slow. As I do more and more P2P (online), I'm having a lot more fun (REAL challenges!), and improving. It's definitely the way to go. Playing on console is still the best, though.
 
KoRoBeNiKi

KoRoBeNiKi

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Slippi.gg
KORO#668
CbGreiga said:
You really explained it quite well. ( I find myself at level four)

Is there any chance you'd go into character specifics, Valoem?
Click to expand...
If you want, I could make one for a bunch of characters. I know enough about everyone to make a good list.
 
CaptainFalconMaster

CaptainFalconMaster

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Oct 3, 2008
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Montreal
Daedatheus said:
Start playing online!
Oh and play me on console one day :laugh:

I have the same problem, I can play many people, but they all suck. As a result my improvement recently has been slow. As I do more and more P2P (online), I'm having a lot more fun (REAL challenges!), and improving. It's definitely the way to go. Playing on console is still the best, though.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice.. but i can't abandon my console... I've been mastering the n64 controller for more than 10 years. I don't really wanna convert..:psycho:

edit : Actually, I'll probably arrange a kind of tournament in montreal for the christmas break so why don't you come to montreal , huh ? I just need a place to make it.. :(
 
Daedatheus

Daedatheus

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CaptainFalconMaster said:
Thanks for the advice.. but i can't abandon my console... I've been mastering the n64 controller for more than 10 years. I don't really wanna convert..:psycho:
Click to expand...
I didn't want to abandon it either. So I bought a USB adapter, but it sucks. If you can find an "Adaptoid", which is a great N64 -> USB adapter, get it, but they are hard to find. All the other N64 -> USB adapters are pretty bad. HOWEVER, I borrow a friend's Xbox 360 controller, and map the buttons so that they are similar to an N64 controller's arrangement, and I find it quite playable, just have to get used to it a little bit. XBOX360 controllers can plug straight into USB, so they work perfectly on PC, and I would recommend them if you want to play online smash with a controller.

I still prefer console w/ classic controllers too. But at least new controllers don't joystick-die!

CaptainFalconMaster said:
edit : Actually, I'll probably arrange a kind of tournament in montreal for the christmas break so why don't you come to montreal , huh ? I just need a place to make it.. :(
Click to expand...
If you did that, I promise that I would be there. Please. Do it. On a weekend. :p
The christmas break might not be a good time though - would be stuck at home with family. Any weekend I'm at university is pretty good because I can just take a train out there.
 
ismokeherbz

ismokeherbz

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Jan 1, 2008
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SLO & Ventura, CA
haha this thread has been resurrected. I think there should be even another level, just because you can short hop, z cancel, and zero to death doesn't really make you good. You have to be able to DI well (as well as follow other player's DI in some cases), have good mindgames, prediction, etc.
 
V

valoem

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Feb 7, 2005
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philly
OK everyone there is the long awaited update I even wrote some extra ****. Anything more tell me now. You write it ill edit it in.
 
Surri-Sama

Surri-Sama

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Apr 6, 2005
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btw everyone who doesnt play online is 5.2, simple because they dont understand what 3 is...read it...

but seriously i think (i may have posted this before) that the first few levels are done PERFECTLY, but the latter levels need to be extended. maybe combine the start of this Curve with the ending (or all) of the newer one, and youll get a far more accurate curve
 
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