The Founding of D Gamesia - Game over? Who scum wins reigned supreme in DGames?

[th3duder]

Duder, Meadow's case against you please.

my better half will have to do it because he was the one involved in the case.

however, i am going to post some logs:
[collapse=th3duder hydra logs]th3kuzinator: yoh
symptom129: hi
symptom129: how we doin
th3kuzinator: fine
th3kuzinator: sizzle is dumb
symptom129: yea
th3kuzinator: bother me that I dont have a lot of town reads yet
th3kuzinator: im usually able to pick up on stuff like that quickl
th3kuzinator: y
th3kuzinator: but theres a lot of scum in this game
symptom129: its too early for me to have reads
th3kuzinator: really.
th3kuzinator: when do you start getting reads by?
symptom129: ill probably re-read the whole game at 14 pages or so and put out a town-to-scum list
th3kuzinator: i like throwing out tentative reads whenever i pick up tells
symptom129: maybe less than that
symptom129: yea
symptom129: but to me
symptom129: were still at that point where reading the arguments doesn't help me pin alignment
symptom129: i know other people can but i dont work that way :D
symptom129: but im sure the discussion will stay healthy, except for like forever zero and chaco
symptom129: chibosempai is perma-dumb
symptom129: he will never change
th3kuzinator: what do you think about Sizzle's persistence on talking about Forever Zero
symptom129: it means nothing until he and FZ actually back and forth
th3kuzinator: ik but its just wtf when fz hasnt even posted
symptom129: FZ is a strong hydra, he might just be acting belligerent towards a good player because he wants to take them on
symptom129: its either that
symptom129: or sizzle is scum
symptom129: well it could be many things, what i just said is a false dilemma
symptom129: but i think its just that sizzle is being dumb
th3kuzinator: really?
th3kuzinator: his 262 is garbage
symptom129: yea it was very bad
symptom129: i also took great offense towards his using my catchphrase back at me for no reason
symptom129: lolz
symptom129: but sizzle is coming with the constant "i know x is scum, i know y is scum, we have already pinned the scum, dont shoot until i say so"
th3kuzinator: and i've known from experience that those dumb arguments that make u go oh hes just dumb not scum for makig it
symptom129: thats just such an immature personality
th3kuzinator: often turn up scum
smptom129: yea they do
symptom129: but we'll have to see
symptom129: im sure by sunday ill have a list growing
symptom129: and ill share it with you
th3kuzinator: kk
th3kuzinator: no rush was just curious
th3kuzinator: also thoughts on sword
symptom129: ill probably PM it to th3duder
symptom129: i dont know yet
symptom129: he is king so he will do one of two things
symptom129: (well one of three?)
symptom129: 1) he is town, and he will put up actual logic and reasoning for why he is killing who he is -> he can kill town or scum
symptom129: 2) he is scum, and he will have to find reasons to kill a townie, most likely through faulty logic and reasoning that can be seen through -> he can kill town
symptom129: 3) he will bus his mate (VERY unlikely)
th3kuzinator: yeah i already thought about bussing
th3kuzinator: if you hit scum as king
th3kuzinator: and u dont get nightkilled immedietly
th3kuzinator: danger flags
symptom129: yea
symptom129: but honestly
symptom129: i dont feel any rush to get a read on sword
th3kuzinator: i was fine with him but i can already tell he's getting sucked in by sizzle
th3kuzinator: and sword is usually smarter than that
symptom129: because 1) he cant be lynched so i know i have time to invest on my sword read 2) when i do invest that time on him i'll have a sword kill to include
th3kuzinator: so im trying to figure out why that is
symptom129: i didnt notice that he was being played by sizzle
symptom129: i'll read it again
symptom129: i dont doubt it, i just didnt see it
th3kuzinator: let me find it
th3kuzinator: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13020377&postcount=269
th3kuzinator: end of this post
th3kuzinator: it could be interpreted that sword is just saying yes to give sizzle time to do things but imo he's also agreeing that he'll listen to what sizzle says wrt when he should shoot
symptom129: you mean the "yes?"
th3kuzinator: yeh
symptom129: oh, that doesn't worry me at all
th3kuzinator: if you say so
symptom129: -Beat- needs to contribute more
symptom129: i have no read on him (i dont have many (any?) at all)
symptom129: but
th3kuzinator: yeah
symptom129: he has 5 posts
symptom129: and none of them contribute
th3kuzinator: im okay with him just because im not okay with others
symptom129: aye
symptom129: and also isn't he new?
th3kuzinator: uhh
th3kuzinator: kinda
th3kuzinator: this is like his 6th game
symptom129: oh.
symptom129: no, then he is not new.
th3kuzinator: or maybe 5th
th3kuzinator: i dont remember
symptom129: imo you get 2 games
symptom129: then you're not new.
th3kuzinator: oh
th3kuzinator: ic
th3kuzinator: ./29 games
symptom129: wat
th3kuzinator: im still new imo
th3kuzinator: YEAH man iv been in alotta games haha
symptom129: haha
th3kuzinator: when you do end up giving me a list after a re-read just pay attention to raziek and sizzle imo
symptom129: sure
symptom129: im not quite sure i see what you see in raziek
symptom129: but i also haven't paid enough attention to him
symptom129: so, i'll let you know
th3kuzinator: kk
th3kuzinator: im also really wary of those posts that are like "you just answered your own question in the same post. I found that entertaining"
th3kuzinator: because I do that **** ALL the time as scum, like poke fun at the points they make against me
symptom129: eh, sometimes people just poke fun of other people
symptom129: but, im not saying you're wrong
symptom129: i'll just have to read
th3kuzinator: its fine if you dont agree im just putting my thoughts out there
symptom129: heres a question
symptom129: what do u think about posting our logs
th3kuzinator: if you want to lets do it
symptom129: we cant post timestamps
th3kuzinator: right
th3kuzinator: imo its an unfair way to clear people and i hate the idea of them
th3kuzinator: but if its legal we might as well make the best use of it
symptom129: i agree, if its legal it should be done
symptom129: im going to go ahead and do it[/collapse]

 

[th3duder]

Doing some chores now, will respond to 262 when I'm done.

 

[-Vocal-]

Because I've haven't really seen anything out of him that I would count as either scummy or townie? He really hasn't done anything note worthy, besides make a minor push on you and answer some questions related to the mechanics of the game. The only thing I can see as being indicitive of his alignment, looking at it a bit harder, is the fact that his push against you is over something very minor and generic. Really just need more content from him, but you could say that about a lot of people at this point.

Sorry I'm not a very strong player early in Day 1; I tend to kick in towards the end of the Day or the beginning of Day 2.

 

[th3duder]

Sorry I'm not a very strong player early in Day 1; I tend to kick in towards the end of the Day or the beginning of Day 2.

why ?

 

[CT Chia]

I have colored statements of yours that are simply wrong. I will respond to them in color coded fashion.

They don't get to pick who our kingmaker is. They just get to pick if they like having the current player cleared or if they would rather have a randomized different played cleared; and if they choose to have a randomized different player cleared, they are going one more night without killing the Hero who is a possible safeclaim.

You say 3-man lylo with a king and two kingmaker claims isn't a bad position for scum? It is literally 50:50. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is literally the worst position for scum. Also, having the kingmaker refrain from claiming before 3-man lylo does not make the situation any better, as you would seem to have us think, because his claim is not any stronger the next day.

"At that point the scum dont have to cc" meaning 3-4 man lylo? That's what you've been talking about. If the scum didn't counter-claim the Kingmaker at that point (4 man being the only possible, as 3 man would definitely see a cc), it would still be 50:50, wouldn't it?

How does it give scum more control over the game? I think you need to re-think this. I don't see how it can possibly "heavily outweigh" a constant clear.

I'm very interested in your responses. You couldn't have been wrong about four things in one paragraph, could you? That would just be embarrassing.

This post changed a lot of my though on the Kingmaker claiming, but I'm not sure it's something I would particularly want yet.

 

[th3duder]

anything else, chibo?

 

[-Vocal-]

why ?

Hard to say. I've only been involved in 3 games so far, so it could simply be inexperience and not having the knowledge of how to properly scum hunt when there's nothing on the table.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Man 262 is just such a reach fest I don't even want to answer it.

But I must plow through the bull****.

@Raziek and Soup: Read on sizzle.

You know, you've been going to respond to 262 since 8:42 this morning and you STILL haven't gotten to it. All you've done is take pot shots at it and attempt to redirect the conversation. Hell, you called it reaching when I specifically explained that Soup wasn't reaching for saying the same exact thing.

Nice try, but I'm going to sink you like the Bismark.

Yes, I'm implying that you are Nazis.

Your response thus far has been COMPLETELY bull****. Let me get to those while you actually sit down and back up your assertions about our 262. DO THAT before you try and redirect the argument again.

 

[th3kuzinator]

This is Raziek's response. He correctly calls it as worthless. He explains that there is no conflict. He further explains what he feels about that stupid Soup posting style thing.

He doesn't correctly call it worthless, he says its a dumb exchange and then summarized it for me (info w/o analysis) for the next two paragraphs. He then tells me that he couldn't care less about about Soup's posting restriction which is just extra information. In both paragraphs he says his thoughts in the very first sentence and then adds more info saying the exact same thing he said in the first sentence. Ignoring the fact that I don't learn anything of value from either paragraphs (which, as I've been saying, is fine because he later explained to me that it didn't affect his reads of either player) he was fluffing the post. When confronted on it, he told me that it was just his posting style and that the rest of it was simply clarification.

Duder's only elaboration until Beatstick posts calling it fluff and Raziek responds. Duder's next post references Raziek's response to Beatstick which I somehow missed in my multiquote.

Its my only elaboration because the time interval between the exchange was a whopping 15 minutes. What are you trying to get at here, that I was purposefully stalling on posting something until Beat came and expressed similar sentiment?

His first line is in reference to Raziek's original comment that he didn't elaborate on until now. It is complete and utter bull****. He is saying he learned absolutely nothing from this answer, which he didn't. The problem with that is that Raziek only posted those two paragraphs because th3duder pointed him at a worthless subject to begin with. There was nothing really to be gained from a correct response to th3duder's original request to comment on "Soup vs. J." He is trying to set Raziek up as scummy for a direct response to a question that answers the question.

There wasn't absolutely nothing to be gained from the exchange and I already said in my response to Sword that it changed my view on both players and it changed Soup's view to the opposing. Him gleaning nothing from it does not bother me because the exchange was in fact limited but thats not what I'm driving at nor what you're trying to pin me as "setting Raziek as scummy for." I'm calling Raziek for fluffing a simple response that could have been answered with a "It didn't affect my read on either player" but instead was answered with unneeded length. Its true that I didn't get anything of value in return but that is less important than the wording Raziek used to tell me that, which isn't even that incriminating anyway. Its a small tell which is why I quickly transitioned away from it as the exchange progressed. I only have to keep explaining and re-explaining that simple exchange is because others are over-highlighting it and making it out to be an incident where I intentionally wanted to frame Raziek, which is bull****.

The bolded bit was Beat calling Raziek's post fluff. What is the correct answer to an accusation of fluff in this situation? No, th3duder, I'm not asking you to answer that, I'll answer it. There isn't one. Yes, the post was worthless, but no, the post is not trying to give the illusion of content when there is none like you are implying that it does.

>there should be a correct answer to every accusation.

You're again wrong and saying that there is no content there could be gleaned from that situation. All he would have needed to say was that it didn't affect his reads and that would have satisfied me. But he didn't. He said the exchange was dumb which doesn't tell me anything except that he thought, in fact, that the exchange was dumb.

"But you could then infer from that that it didn't mean anything to him and thus didn't affect his read."

I didn't think of it like that at the time and thus called him out on not clarifying it. He responded and I mostly moved on. Again, really simple exchange that is being twisted and beaten to death to somehow support a case that I was trying to frame Raziek from that interaction.

I took the liberty of bolding the part that th3duder is referencing.

There is no reason for Duder's attack. First, the two paragraphs reference different things. Second, the content is readily available in the original answer. Because it had more words than the tl;dr that Duder bolded is absolutely no excuse to make this accusation. But do you know who has been posting fluff everywhere? Duder. I'll get to that in the next section.

Was the fluff point a particularly strong one? No, it wasn't which is why I transitioned out of it quickly. Does it hold some weight nonetheless? Yes. Yes it does.

@Bolded: Didn't you just say that there was no content that could have possibly come from an answer to my useless question, which made my followup on him not posting his stance on the players bull****? Now you are saying the content is "readily available in the original answer" and that my accusation is off base because the material is clearly there? You've tried to twist this so far to continue to make accusations on me that you've lost sight of what you were originally attacking me for.

Raziek again responds correctly. The only part here I want to point out is the way Duder is pointing out that Raziek has to be concise. I'm almost certain I've discussed walls with Kuz before and he was of the opinion that it doesn't matter the length of the post, it matters the content, which Raziek had. Short is better, but not necessary.

Thus ends the main exchange.

Thank you for giving us the standard on which Raziek should be posting on. You're also blatantly wrong on your next point because I said nothing on the sort. When responding to my questions, Raziek said that it was his posting style to over clarify things like he did. I said that was incorrect because I have read other games he was and remember the way he posts, which is usually pretty concise. I am in no way telling him he has to post more concisely, I am saying it does not line up with the way he has posted in other places. If anything, call me out for using meta because that about the only thing you've correctly analyzed this entire case.

@Bolded: Again with the contradiction.

You say right here

There was nothing really to be gained from a correct response to th3duder's original request to comment on "Soup vs. J." He is trying to set Raziek up as scummy for a direct response to a question that answers the question.

That there is nothing to be gained from such a response and you're now saying that Raz's 134 had content which apparently I'm completely ignoring.

I have just explained how it wasn't scummy. I've implied, but now I'll state that I think he expected it to go nowhere when he posted it and was simply fishing for a reaction he could try and set a mislynch with. I don't know if he expected that to be the one or for something else to come through for him, but that was his aim.

You're just assuming malicious intent behind my push which certainly wasn't there. If I was trying to set up a ML on Raziek I would still be pushing him even now. It wasn't a very strong point to begin with and has been blown out of proportion so many times this thread that you're assuming I intended to get him mislynched off of that point alone. If you honestly think that I was then you must think I'm a ****** (and I know you know me better than that Ryker) or you're actually trying to get away with that terrible reasoning. I transitioned off talking about him and went to Soup midway through the push because something more important caught my attention. Again, exaggerating the intensity of my push on Raz.

The first to lines are in response to him being called out for the same thing I'm calling him out for now (being called out by Soup, IIRC). Calling it fluff for no reason. I ask you to stand by that post and explain to everyone why MY post is reaching.

See above. Assuming malicious intent behind my questioning, which is definitely reaching.

He says that both paragraphs add up to the bolded sentence whereas in the later post, he correctly analyzes them as what they are. The following paragraph even states that his issue with them was the lack of an included stance, not that they were fluff (which is, by mafia definition, additional noncontent added to make your post look like it had more than it did). Not only does he NEVER tell Raziek that his problem was the lack of a stance, he also completely ignored the fact that Raziek made it clear that he found the exchange worthless, meaning it wouldn't affect his stances on the players.

@First part: Beating the same argument (with an exchange of about 6 posts) to death. Already answered above.

Thought its true I specifically said at the time "how does that affect your read on J and Soup" I pretty much clarified that's what I mean 3-4 times after Soup questioned me on it. Plus, my response of "I didn't learn anything of importance from that response" should have implied that I didn't learn anything about their alignments (especially when I'm asking him about an exchange between two players). Granted, I should have been more specific in my first response, but that little distinction is not what I'm pushing him for nor does it have much relevance to what you're pushing me for.

Raziek only made it clear that he found the exchange worthless after I pressured him on it. As I said before and I'll say again 400 more times, "just seems like a dumb argument" does not mean it wouldn't effect his stances. Him later clarifying that he didn't think it held anything of merit did, which is when I dropped it. You're attacking me for not making an assumption off his post, real convincing.

Duder did, in fact, recieve Raziek's opinion on the exchange, he just chose to disregard in favor of pushing this pile of **** on Raziek.

Why are you so transparent when you're trying to pull **** from midair? Again assuming I should have known it didn't affect his reads from his answer (which is bull****) and apparently I'm intentionally ignoring his "content" and trying to bury Raziek under the weight of the assertion that he didn't clarify his point. Clearly what I was doing instead of, you know, pressuring him to clarify. Exchange blown way out of proportion. Again.

/broken record

You contradict yourself again. You say he never gave you his opinion on the exchange, yet you acknowledge that he said the whole thing was dumb. You KNOW how his reads were affected by the exchange, you just refuse to admit that his answer did, in fact, satisfy the condition of your question regardless of whether the intent was to get his read based on the situation or, more literal to your request, simply comment on the exchange.

Same thing as above. Man you've said the same thing 8 times.

You would've clarified and he would've told you either that he thought this player looked a little town/scum after it or, more likely, that it was stupid and had no real affect on his reads.

I did ask question him on his response and he did clarify as to it not affecting his reads and then the exchange was pretty much over as I transitioned to looking at Soup. So yes, this is exactly did happen.

Why would TownDuder NOT list his grievance at that time? There is no answer to satisfy that question. He needs to be shot. He misrepresents Raziek's posts to try and make them look scummy and then he doubles back on what he previously said and changes the reason for his case.

Correct answer is that I forgot to clarify and that I got my actual answer to the question before I needed to spell it out for him, so I dropped it. For someone who is misinterpreting posts, you're doing quite a bit of that yourself.

 

[th3duder]

You know, you've been going to respond to 262 since 8:42 this morning and you STILL haven't gotten to it. All you've done is take pot shots at it and attempt to redirect the conversation. Hell, you called it reaching when I specifically explained that Soup wasn't reaching for saying the same exact thing.

Nice try, but I'm going to sink you like the Bismark.

Yes, I'm implying that you are Nazis.

Your response thus far has been COMPLETELY bull****. Let me get to those while you actually sit down and back up your assertions about our 262. DO THAT before you try and redirect the argument again.

See, I can post images too!

Now don't you look like an idiot.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

More suggested reading music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyDdV8eIHGE&feature=related

First, let me quote every post that either takes a pot shot at #262, promises a response, and/or makes an excuse for not responding.

lol @ thinking you could bring me to boner town.

until you posted the collapse tag (post 263) simply reposting our posts and saying "look and find null tells... they're now scum tells!" (which is laughable in itself) and "he has contributed nothing in 16 posts!" (which is just a lie - for being 24 hours into a game i think we've contributed far more than enough), literally everything you quoted (post 262) was kuzzy talking, so you will have to wait for him to respond.

but that 263 is abysmal. and your attitude is terrible too, imho you aren't good enough to get away with that

For the record, I am getting to the response to 263. I'm not saying it's the problem. It's wrong, but it's not the problem for the moment. I'm referencing the excuse. Tom here is stating that he has literally no idea why Kuz did what Kuz did and can't respond to it. However, no correction to that case was ever brought up in thread, so I have zero reason to excuse Tom's "ignorance." I just can't wait to talk about the hydra log and expand on this.

Ryker. Stop playing like a complete ******.

Post 263, as tom said, is you trying to make what you even call null tells, scum tells. Your point makes no sense considering the content we have given previously and you're trying to get away with making the point that I am being hypocritical because of challenging Raziek on one post. That's like accusing someone of bad WIFOM and then them turning around and quoting everywhere in the game previously you used WIFOM and saying "nou." It's a terrible argument and the ammount of reaching you're doing to make null-tells out to be scum-tells is laughable.



I feel compelled to post pictures to this post. Why are you playing like such an absolute ******? Bull**** it lets them pick who our kingmaker is, it lets them get rid of the current one and replace it with someone at random. Regardless of who's alive at the time, they will be trying to influence the kingmaker as much as scum will which won't have that much affect unless town is being dumb.

@Bolded: Did you even think about what you're saying before you said it? A kingmaker claiming the Day before Lylo/Mylo might be killed that Night before we enter that phase and then a new one will be crowned. In those phases that could out one of them as scum and the kingmaker himself. What does not having the kingmaker claim have anything to do with that? If the Kingmaker doesn't claim, and you role into mylo or lylo, the exact same type of claim and counterclaim could occur regardless of whether the kingmaker claimed the Day before. It's not like there are any results to fake because scum know who became king each and every Day so they don't have to fake results if the kingmaker doesn't claim for the entire game.

You're completely ignoring that the kingmaker gives you a clear and it gives you another confirmed townie on any day if scum decide to take him out (barring a cc in lylo/mylo which still 50% outs scum as well as town). This heavily outweighs the cons you've listed, which are non-existent because you didn't have enough sense to actually think about its implications.

I'll respond to 262 in a moment.

Calls me ********. Boo-hoo, poor me. Again, I'll get to the 263 response. Also redirects to mechanics discussion which I will address later as well. Here is the first promise that 262 will be gotten to.

Man 262 is just such a reach fest I don't even want to answer it.

But I must plow through the bull****.

@Raziek and Soup: Read on sizzle.

Absolutely nothing but a shot at the credibility of my case with no explanation. I've already explained in my last post why it's indicative that he hasn't even read the damn thing.

my better half will have to do it because he was the one involved in the case.

however, i am going to post some logs:
[collapse=th3duder hydra logs]th3kuzinator: yoh
symptom129: hi
symptom129: how we doin
th3kuzinator: fine
th3kuzinator: sizzle is dumb
symptom129: yea
th3kuzinator: bother me that I dont have a lot of town reads yet
th3kuzinator: im usually able to pick up on stuff like that quickl
th3kuzinator: y
th3kuzinator: but theres a lot of scum in this game
symptom129: its too early for me to have reads
th3kuzinator: really.
th3kuzinator: when do you start getting reads by?
symptom129: ill probably re-read the whole game at 14 pages or so and put out a town-to-scum list
th3kuzinator: i like throwing out tentative reads whenever i pick up tells
symptom129: maybe less than that
symptom129: yea
symptom129: but to me
symptom129: were still at that point where reading the arguments doesn't help me pin alignment
symptom129: i know other people can but i dont work that way :D
symptom129: but im sure the discussion will stay healthy, except for like forever zero and chaco
symptom129: chibosempai is perma-dumb
symptom129: he will never change
th3kuzinator: what do you think about Sizzle's persistence on talking about Forever Zero
symptom129: it means nothing until he and FZ actually back and forth
th3kuzinator: ik but its just wtf when fz hasnt even posted
symptom129: FZ is a strong hydra, he might just be acting belligerent towards a good player because he wants to take them on
symptom129: its either that
symptom129: or sizzle is scum
symptom129: well it could be many things, what i just said is a false dilemma
symptom129: but i think its just that sizzle is being dumb
th3kuzinator: really?
th3kuzinator: his 262 is garbage
symptom129: yea it was very bad
symptom129: i also took great offense towards his using my catchphrase back at me for no reason
symptom129: lolz
symptom129: but sizzle is coming with the constant "i know x is scum, i know y is scum, we have already pinned the scum, dont shoot until i say so"
th3kuzinator: and i've known from experience that those dumb arguments that make u go oh hes just dumb not scum for makig it
symptom129: thats just such an immature personality
th3kuzinator: often turn up scum
smptom129: yea they do
symptom129: but we'll have to see
symptom129: im sure by sunday ill have a list growing
symptom129: and ill share it with you
th3kuzinator: kk
th3kuzinator: no rush was just curious
th3kuzinator: also thoughts on sword
symptom129: ill probably PM it to th3duder
symptom129: i dont know yet
symptom129: he is king so he will do one of two things
symptom129: (well one of three?)
symptom129: 1) he is town, and he will put up actual logic and reasoning for why he is killing who he is -> he can kill town or scum
symptom129: 2) he is scum, and he will have to find reasons to kill a townie, most likely through faulty logic and reasoning that can be seen through -> he can kill town
symptom129: 3) he will bus his mate (VERY unlikely)
th3kuzinator: yeah i already thought about bussing
th3kuzinator: if you hit scum as king
th3kuzinator: and u dont get nightkilled immedietly
th3kuzinator: danger flags
symptom129: yea
symptom129: but honestly
symptom129: i dont feel any rush to get a read on sword
th3kuzinator: i was fine with him but i can already tell he's getting sucked in by sizzle
th3kuzinator: and sword is usually smarter than that
symptom129: because 1) he cant be lynched so i know i have time to invest on my sword read 2) when i do invest that time on him i'll have a sword kill to include
th3kuzinator: so im trying to figure out why that is
symptom129: i didnt notice that he was being played by sizzle
symptom129: i'll read it again
symptom129: i dont doubt it, i just didnt see it
th3kuzinator: let me find it
th3kuzinator: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13020377&postcount=269
th3kuzinator: end of this post
th3kuzinator: it could be interpreted that sword is just saying yes to give sizzle time to do things but imo he's also agreeing that he'll listen to what sizzle says wrt when he should shoot
symptom129: you mean the "yes?"
th3kuzinator: yeh
symptom129: oh, that doesn't worry me at all
th3kuzinator: if you say so
symptom129: -Beat- needs to contribute more
symptom129: i have no read on him (i dont have many (any?) at all)
symptom129: but
th3kuzinator: yeah
symptom129: he has 5 posts
symptom129: and none of them contribute
th3kuzinator: im okay with him just because im not okay with others
symptom129: aye
symptom129: and also isn't he new?
th3kuzinator: uhh
th3kuzinator: kinda
th3kuzinator: this is like his 6th game
symptom129: oh.
symptom129: no, then he is not new.
th3kuzinator: or maybe 5th
th3kuzinator: i dont remember
symptom129: imo you get 2 games
symptom129: then you're not new.
th3kuzinator: oh
th3kuzinator: ic
th3kuzinator: ./29 games
symptom129: wat
th3kuzinator: im still new imo
th3kuzinator: YEAH man iv been in alotta games haha
symptom129: haha
th3kuzinator: when you do end up giving me a list after a re-read just pay attention to raziek and sizzle imo
symptom129: sure
symptom129: im not quite sure i see what you see in raziek
symptom129: but i also haven't paid enough attention to him
symptom129: so, i'll let you know
th3kuzinator: kk
th3kuzinator: im also really wary of those posts that are like "you just answered your own question in the same post. I found that entertaining"
th3kuzinator: because I do that **** ALL the time as scum, like poke fun at the points they make against me
symptom129: eh, sometimes people just poke fun of other people
symptom129: but, im not saying you're wrong
symptom129: i'll just have to read
th3kuzinator: its fine if you dont agree im just putting my thoughts out there
symptom129: heres a question
symptom129: what do u think about posting our logs
th3kuzinator: if you want to lets do it
symptom129: we cant post timestamps
th3kuzinator: right
th3kuzinator: imo its an unfair way to clear people and i hate the idea of them
th3kuzinator: but if its legal we might as well make the best use of it
symptom129: i agree, if its legal it should be done
symptom129: im going to go ahead and do it[/collapse]

Tom, presumably, again making the excuse that he can't do **** about #262 and an attempt to clear themselves with a hydra log, even though they "hate to do it." You cannot fathom how excited I am to get to that hydra log.

Doing some chores now, will respond to 262 when I'm done.

Here is that promise AGAIN. About five and a half hours later.

why ?

anything else, chibo?

His next post is directed at Vocal 30 minutes after that previous excuse/promise and the one directed at Chibo an hour after the Vocal one.

No more excuses. Address it now.

 

[th3duder]

Well now don't you really look like an idiot?

Its been a little over 12 hours since you posted the original case. Funny you're already trying to pin me for avoiding a response for such a short interval. Keep reaching bro.

 

[th3duder]

Oh and I have things to do during the day, sorry I didn't immediately drop everything I was doing to take hours out of my day to respond to that wall of incandescent misinterpretation. Plus the other two one-liners were done by Tom while I was away from my computer.

12 hours in a game with no deadlines and he's already calling me out for inactivity.

 

[th3duder]

Well, I was viewing the post in a vacum. Thinking of it in this context, I can see it being false content, as you're right that in that point in time we weren't really in the RVS anymore.

Fair enough, didn't realize you were viewing the post in a vacuum. It caught my eye because of an earlier post made by the hydra, here.

Though this was a legitimate early game post it struck me as weird that the hydra took it upon themselves to be the ones to take everyone out of RVS. That post I linked was the same type of thing, except later in the game once everything had progressed to a point where that post was unnecessary.

By him saying that "it's just a dumb exchange," I think that he was heavily implying that he couldn't get anything out of it.

In retrospect you're probably right but at the time I thought he was literally only calling the exchange dumb without and implications of whether that affected his read or not, which is why I followed up on it.

I don't really agree with the bolded. It was just a minor exchange over nothing of value that any read it might of produced would have to be incredibly minor. You could argue that Raz should of at least got something minor out of it, but at that point you wouldn't even be arguing over something that was scummy, but rather simply something that was anti-town.

Agree to disagree then. Even if it was only meta I noticed something about the way the hydra responded to Soup's post. I'm not saying Raz had to get something out of it, but there was definitely something to get out of the exchange, if you knew where to look.

Because I've haven't really seen anything out of him that I would count as either scummy or townie? He really hasn't done anything note worthy, besides make a minor push on you and answer some questions related to the mechanics of the game. The only thing I can see as being indicitive of his alignment, looking at it a bit harder, is the fact that his push against you is over something very minor and generic. Really just need more content from him, but you could say that about a lot of people at this point.

I guess but I actually think Vocal is one of those players that does have enough posts under his belt to warrant a tentative read. That read could be null but I was just curious as to whether he was null because you had no content on him or because you thought his play was null. Aside from his push being generic (which is something I didn't even notice until you brought it up), the thing that catches me is his strategy of returning to joke posting once put under pressure in a situation. He was discussing with someone the pros and cons of having the kingmaker claim and then J posted the post I referenced with the "vote zen" line and he decided to accuse that hydra of not voting Zen's name correctly which literally came out of nowhere. That's what I was getting at to see if you noticed.

No. He's simply requested of me to not shoot anyone yet until he's finished, which I planned to do anyway.

Alright, my mistake. Thought you were referring to the part in his post where he said you should shoot when he gave you the okay.

You make it sound like I've haven't given my opinion on this.

I forgot your stance on it and quickly skimmed back to see if you had given it or not. Must have missed it.

 

[th3duder]

This is Tom.

For the record, I am getting to the response to 263. I'm not saying it's the problem. It's wrong, but it's not the problem for the moment. I'm referencing the excuse. Tom here is stating that he has literally no idea why Kuz did what Kuz did and can't respond to it. However, no correction to that case was ever brought up in thread, so I have zero reason to excuse Tom's "ignorance." I just can't wait to talk about the hydra log and expand on this.

I dont understand what you are saying here. Can you re-state? I don't know what you mean about a correction to a case and not being able to excuse me for making no response; Kuz will make the response in due time, I'm sure. I will not however respond to a situation where it would be far more appropriate for Kuz to respond - that could only be acceptable at best and create unnecessary misunderstanding at worst. "He has literally no idea why Kuz did what he did and can't respond to it," well, that is how you will put it, but I will ask you, how is that even a bad thing? Why are you construing that as a bad thing?

Tom, presumably, again making the excuse that he can't do **** about #262 and an attempt to clear themselves with a hydra log, even though they "hate to do it." You cannot fathom how excited I am to get to that hydra log.

I figured you (plural) would want our logs as opposed to not having them. If you do not want them, you don't have to read them. "Hate to do it," as in it can only give town hydras an unfair advantage to scum hydras; as a mod, I do not allow them, and Kuz seems to dislike allowing them as well, but Gordito has allowed them, so we might as well take advantage of them.

And again, you take something and immediately construe it towards your own argument. You see the log and you immediately claim, "th3duder posted their logs in an attempt to clear themselves!!" As opposed to how someone who would want to say we are town might say, "th3duder posted the logs, they must be town!!" and someone who is being objective and fair might say "th3duder posted their logs, it means nothing about their alignment." The purpose of posting logs is to 1) if town, show your thought process or 2) if scum, show what you want your thought process to look like. I don't see how we're doing anything wrong, we are just creating a paper trial.

His next post is directed at Vocal 30 minutes after that previous excuse/promise and the one directed at Chibo an hour after the Vocal one.

Like kuz just explained, those posts were by me Tom, not by my better half Kuz.

@Meadowsizzle, in my related opinion you are being unreasonable. In my unrelated opinion, your posts reek of misplaced self-confidence.

 

[th3duder]

This is also Tom: Meadowsizzle, please be sure to respond to my #278. I can't help but note the irony that you are hounding my better half for an immediate response to your case but you fail to respond to my four questions/statements.

 

[th3duder]

Tom again: @mod: shouldnt Forever Zero have a prod by now, please? I've seen at least OS post since the game started, probably FF too.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Oh boy, it's go time. Now, before you say anything, prepare to shut the **** up.

my better half will have to do it because he was the one involved in the case.

however, i am going to post some logs:

Okay. This is legitimately NOTHING but an attempt to clear themselves with meta.

th3kuzinator: what do you think about Sizzle's persistence on talking about Forever Zero
symptom129: it means nothing until he and FZ actually back and forth
th3kuzinator: ik but its just wtf when fz hasnt even posted
symptom129: FZ is a strong hydra, he might just be acting belligerent towards a good player because he wants to take them on
symptom129: its either that
symptom129: or sizzle is scum
symptom129: well it could be many things, what i just said is a false dilemma
symptom129: but i think its just that sizzle is being dumb
th3kuzinator: really?
th3kuzinator: his 262 is garbage
symptom129: yea it was very bad
symptom129: i also took great offense towards his using my catchphrase back at me for no reason
symptom129: lolz
symptom129: but sizzle is coming with the constant "i know x is scum, i know y is scum, we have already pinned the scum, dont shoot until i say so"
th3kuzinator: and i've known from experience that those dumb arguments that make u go oh hes just dumb not scum for makig it
symptom129: thats just such an immature personality
th3kuzinator: often turn up scum
smptom129: yea they do
symptom129: but we'll have to see

First order of business. This is COMPLETE ****. Kuz saying "I know x is scum, I know y is scum. We have already pinned scum, don't shoot until I say so." is a scum tell. BULL****. You, sir, are being shot today. You, sir, are flipping scum today. You, Sword, are going to wait until we tell you who's being shot the following two days. This ultimatum accomplishes nothing more than making sure that we get ALL our reads out before the day ends.

Didn't you yourself at one point make a big deal out of saying we "SHOULDN'T RUSH!" Well, it's all the more important that we don't rush now that we have presented a case. Say Sworddancer is your scumbuddy. The MOMENT that it reaches the point where you are a lost cause, he's gonna pull the trigger and prevent me from getting anything else out. We haven't even touched on our other scum picks and we are fairly certain we have them nailed within a safety net of one player. We are preventing the loss of this information, so you can shut the **** up.

Secondly, Kuz implies that our ForeverZero comments were a scum tell. Please explain that. Regardless of what Tom said in this log, you put it in the thread and it attempts to undermine us further

Oh, and yet another, "262 is garbage." The interesting part here is the way that Tom agreed, YET TOM MADE DAMN SURE TO CHALK IT UP TO KUZ! He made certain the entire thread could see that as a hydra misunderstanding if that was the angle they decided to push.

th3kuzinator: also thoughts on sword
symptom129: i dont know yet
symptom129: he is king so he will do one of two things
symptom129: (well one of three?)
symptom129: 1) he is town, and he will put up actual logic and reasoning for why he is killing who he is -> he can kill town or scum
symptom129: 2) he is scum, and he will have to find reasons to kill a townie, most likely through faulty logic and reasoning that can be seen through -> he can kill town
symptom129: 3) he will bus his mate (VERY unlikely)
th3kuzinator: yeah i already thought about bussing
th3kuzinator: if you hit scum as king
th3kuzinator: and u dont get nightkilled immedietly
th3kuzinator: danger flags
symptom129: yea
symptom129: but honestly
symptom129: i dont feel any rush to get a read on sword
th3kuzinator: i was fine with him but i can already tell he's getting sucked in by sizzle
th3kuzinator: and sword is usually smarter than that
symptom129: because 1) he cant be lynched so i know i have time to invest on my sword read 2) when i do invest that time on him i'll have a sword kill to include
th3kuzinator: so im trying to figure out why that is
symptom129: i didnt notice that he was being played by sizzle
symptom129: i'll read it again
symptom129: i dont doubt it, i just didnt see it
th3kuzinator: let me find it
th3kuzinator: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13020377&postcount=269
th3kuzinator: end of this post
th3kuzinator: it could be interpreted that sword is just saying yes to give sizzle time to do things but imo he's also agreeing that he'll listen to what sizzle says wrt when he should shoot
symptom129: you mean the "yes?"
th3kuzinator: yeh
symptom129: oh, that doesn't worry me at all
th3kuzinator: if you say so

Oh god, the manipulation here is astounding. Throughout this section, they not-so-subtly threaten Sword. Combine this:

th3kuzinator: i was fine with him but i can already tell he's getting sucked in by sizzle
th3kuzinator: and sword is usually smarter than that

with this post:

You're letting sizzle run the show for you despite telling us you'll decided who and when you'll shoot? Gross.

Go to hell. What you say adds up to, "Don't listen to him. It will have negative implications for you, but you can listen to me. I have your best interests at heart." I don't give a DAMN about Swords. If I think he's scum, I'm going to pin him into a situation where he can't do anything but shoot you or risk outing himself.

Back to the log one more time:

symptom129: what do u think about posting our logs
th3kuzinator: if you want to lets do it
symptom129: we cant post timestamps
th3kuzinator: right
th3kuzinator: imo its an unfair way to clear people and i hate the idea of them
th3kuzinator: but if its legal we might as well make the best use of it
symptom129: i agree, if its legal it should be done
symptom129: im going to go ahead and do it

This is some bull**** fishing for town credit. There is absolutely no reason for this to be included other than to assert that this hydra log should clear them.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

This is also Tom: Meadowsizzle, please be sure to respond to my #278. I can't help but note the irony that you are hounding my better half for an immediate response to your case but you fail to respond to my four questions/statements.

Because they're completely unrelated. They're redirecting back to mechanic discussion which will yield nothing. You're flat wrong, but I'll discuss that when it matters. That isn't now. If you're the kingmaker, then claim and let's get this out of the way. If you aren't, then that issue will sit there so that you can't grab at it to deflect our argument.

 

[-Vocal-]

Meadowsizzle is cool in my book. Not firm forever, but firm enough for now. I don't think the crusade on duder will amount to much pressure in that directiong, but that's beside the point. Still not using the title, but I'm alright with him living today.

 

[-Vocal-]

To clarify that, I don't care much for his playstyle so far, but at the least I don't think he's scum for now.

 

[-Vocal-]

Yes, I'm implying that you are Nazis.

Oh yea, and inappropriate. I know this is the Internet, but there are lines. Don't cross them :/

 

[th3duder]

I've literally never seen a more misconstrued pile of garbage in my entire life. You're delusional if you actually think that type of accusation will incriminate me in the slightest, let alone get me shot toDay. Remember that time when tom said your posts reek of misplaced self-confidence? He couldn't possibly have expressed my sentiments more accurately.

 

[th3duder]

To clarify that, I don't care much for his playstyle so far, but at the least I don't think he's scum for now.

Can you clarify what you like about his play this game? If you agree that his push isn't going anywhere, is the manner in which he is doing it giving such a read?

 

[Meadowsizzle]

He doesn't correctly call it worthless, he says its a dumb exchange and then summarized it for me (info w/o analysis) for the next two paragraphs. He then tells me that he couldn't care less about about Soup's posting restriction which is just extra information. In both paragraphs he says his thoughts in the very first sentence and then adds more info saying the exact same thing he said in the first sentence. Ignoring the fact that I don't learn anything of value from either paragraphs (which, as I've been saying, is fine because he later explained to me that it didn't affect his reads of either player) he was fluffing the post. When confronted on it, he told me that it was just his posting style and that the rest of it was simply clarification.



Its my only elaboration because the time interval between the exchange was a whopping 15 minutes. What are you trying to get at here, that I was purposefully stalling on posting something until Beat came and expressed similar sentiment?



There wasn't absolutely nothing to be gained from the exchange and I already said in my response to Sword that it changed my view on both players and it changed Soup's view to the opposing. Him gleaning nothing from it does not bother me because the exchange was in fact limited but thats not what I'm driving at nor what you're trying to pin me as "setting Raziek as scummy for." I'm calling Raziek for fluffing a simple response that could have been answered with a "It didn't affect my read on either player" but instead was answered with unneeded length. Its true that I didn't get anything of value in return but that is less important than the wording Raziek used to tell me that, which isn't even that incriminating anyway. Its a small tell which is why I quickly transitioned away from it as the exchange progressed. I only have to keep explaining and re-explaining that simple exchange is because others are over-highlighting it and making it out to be an incident where I intentionally wanted to frame Raziek, which is bull****.



>there should be a correct answer to every accusation.

You're again wrong and saying that there is no content there could be gleaned from that situation. All he would have needed to say was that it didn't affect his reads and that would have satisfied me. But he didn't. He said the exchange was dumb which doesn't tell me anything except that he thought, in fact, that the exchange was dumb.

"But you could then infer from that that it didn't mean anything to him and thus didn't affect his read."

I didn't think of it like that at the time and thus called him out on not clarifying it. He responded and I mostly moved on. Again, really simple exchange that is being twisted and beaten to death to somehow support a case that I was trying to frame Raziek from that interaction.



Was the fluff point a particularly strong one? No, it wasn't which is why I transitioned out of it quickly. Does it hold some weight nonetheless? Yes. Yes it does.

@Bolded: Didn't you just say that there was no content that could have possibly come from an answer to my useless question, which made my followup on him not posting his stance on the players bull****? Now you are saying the content is "readily available in the original answer" and that my accusation is off base because the material is clearly there? You've tried to twist this so far to continue to make accusations on me that you've lost sight of what you were originally attacking me for.



Thank you for giving us the standard on which Raziek should be posting on. You're also blatantly wrong on your next point because I said nothing on the sort. When responding to my questions, Raziek said that it was his posting style to over clarify things like he did. I said that was incorrect because I have read other games he was and remember the way he posts, which is usually pretty concise. I am in no way telling him he has to post more concisely, I am saying it does not line up with the way he has posted in other places. If anything, call me out for using meta because that about the only thing you've correctly analyzed this entire case.

@Bolded: Again with the contradiction.

You say right here



That there is nothing to be gained from such a response and you're now saying that Raz's 134 had content which apparently I'm completely ignoring.



You're just assuming malicious intent behind my push which certainly wasn't there. If I was trying to set up a ML on Raziek I would still be pushing him even now. It wasn't a very strong point to begin with and has been blown out of proportion so many times this thread that you're assuming I intended to get him mislynched off of that point alone. If you honestly think that I was then you must think I'm a ****** (and I know you know me better than that Ryker) or you're actually trying to get away with that terrible reasoning. I transitioned off talking about him and went to Soup midway through the push because something more important caught my attention. Again, exaggerating the intensity of my push on Raz.



See above. Assuming malicious intent behind my questioning, which is definitely reaching.



@First part: Beating the same argument (with an exchange of about 6 posts) to death. Already answered above.

Thought its true I specifically said at the time "how does that affect your read on J and Soup" I pretty much clarified that's what I mean 3-4 times after Soup questioned me on it. Plus, my response of "I didn't learn anything of importance from that response" should have implied that I didn't learn anything about their alignments (especially when I'm asking him about an exchange between two players). Granted, I should have been more specific in my first response, but that little distinction is not what I'm pushing him for nor does it have much relevance to what you're pushing me for.

Raziek only made it clear that he found the exchange worthless after I pressured him on it. As I said before and I'll say again 400 more times, "just seems like a dumb argument" does not mean it wouldn't effect his stances. Him later clarifying that he didn't think it held anything of merit did, which is when I dropped it. You're attacking me for not making an assumption off his post, real convincing.




Why are you so transparent when you're trying to pull **** from midair? Again assuming I should have known it didn't affect his reads from his answer (which is bull****) and apparently I'm intentionally ignoring his "content" and trying to bury Raziek under the weight of the assertion that he didn't clarify his point. Clearly what I was doing instead of, you know, pressuring him to clarify. Exchange blown way out of proportion. Again.

/broken record



Same thing as above. Man you've said the same thing 8 times.



I did ask question him on his response and he did clarify as to it not affecting his reads and then the exchange was pretty much over as I transitioned to looking at Soup. So yes, this is exactly did happen.



Correct answer is that I forgot to clarify and that I got my actual answer to the question before I needed to spell it out for him, so I dropped it. For someone who is misinterpreting posts, you're doing quite a bit of that yourself.

You're flat wrong. What you've done here is take each of our quotes where we explained why what you did is wrong and scummy and say "no u." You're sticking to your original argument to which we will continue to have our initial problem. You are wrong and are trying to entice us into trading walls with you which doesn't help town at all.

There is nothing new in your post.

Cut it down to no more than five one sentence questions based on our case. We aren't playing your game.

Also, drop the ad-hominen. Almost all of your posts since our case have included at least some attempt to discredit us.

 

[th3duder]

You're flat wrong. What you've done here is take each of our quotes where we explained why what you did is wrong and scummy and say "no u." You're sticking to your original argument to which we will continue to have our initial problem. You are wrong and are trying to entice us into trading walls with you which doesn't help town at all.

There is nothing new in your post.

Cut it down to no more than five one sentence questions based on our case. We aren't playing your game.

Also, drop the ad-hominen. Almost all of your posts since our case have included at least some attempt to discredit us.

S-s-s-s-s-s-s-strawman.

What ad-hominen? You're claim we're Nazi's aren't you? Isn't that what Nazis do? Strike fear into the hearts of the little children who oppose us?

In all serious, cut this ****. Ad-hominens are all you've to every single player this entire game in almost every single post. The fact that you are even trying to play the innocent card is disgustingly low and underhanded. Not to mention hypocritical. Get that **** out of here.

Its also nice to see that after whining like a 6 year old for not getting your case exactly when you wanted it, you suddenly have no time to address it and dismiss the entire thing as saying "no u." I pointed out contradictions in your attack everywhere but I guess now its not important to respond to them.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

I dont understand what you are saying here. Can you re-state? I don't know what you mean about a correction to a case and not being able to excuse me for making no response; Kuz will make the response in due time, I'm sure. I will not however respond to a situation where it would be far more appropriate for Kuz to respond - that could only be acceptable at best and create unnecessary misunderstanding at worst. "He has literally no idea why Kuz did what he did and can't respond to it," well, that is how you will put it, but I will ask you, how is that even a bad thing? Why are you construing that as a bad thing?

The only line that means something in that post. Read our commentary on your log and you'll see why it's an issue.

I figured you (plural) would want our logs as opposed to not having them. If you do not want them, you don't have to read them. "Hate to do it," as in it can only give town hydras an unfair advantage to scum hydras; as a mod, I do not allow them, and Kuz seems to dislike allowing them as well, but Gordito has allowed them, so we might as well take advantage of them.

And again, you take something and immediately construe it towards your own argument. You see the log and you immediately claim, "th3duder posted their logs in an attempt to clear themselves!!" As opposed to how someone who would want to say we are town might say, "th3duder posted the logs, they must be town!!" and someone who is being objective and fair might say "th3duder posted their logs, it means nothing about their alignment." The purpose of posting logs is to 1) if town, show your thought process or 2) if scum, show what you want your thought process to look like. I don't see how we're doing anything wrong, we are just creating a paper trial.

Oh, we have plenty of reason to believe it's exactly what it is. It supports our argument because it was posted by scum in an attempt to get themselves cleared. Read our last line on the commentary of your hydra log. This rationalization doesn't help you at all.

@Meadowsizzle, in my related opinion you are being unreasonable. In my unrelated opinion, your posts reek of misplaced self-confidence.

Then you, my good man, don't know me very well. There's no way to play this game without an incredible surplus of self-confidence, but I appreciate the compliment even if it was more ad-hominen.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Oh and I have things to do during the day, sorry I didn't immediately drop everything I was doing to take hours out of my day to respond to that wall of incandescent misinterpretation. Plus the other two one-liners were done by Tom while I was away from my computer.

12 hours in a game with no deadlines and he's already calling me out for inactivity.

Oh, how did I miss this little gem.

You've been hounding me to play Borderlands. I got a text message from Laundry much earlier in the day (around 4pm, I think) bothering me to play with him, you, and Gova. I log into skype, and you messaged me wanting to play. You know what? I know just how long you're typically on Skype. I just got off a scum team with you and died in a game we were hydra'd in. Don't give me this bull****.

 

[-Vocal-]

Is it wrong that I don't want to read the hydra log? I really just feel like it's pointless to read. If they want to say something, they can just say it, right? You can call be extremely skeptical, but I really don't see how anything useful could be gleaned from them.

 

[th3duder]

The only line that means something in that post. Read our commentary on your log and you'll see why it's an issue.

WOAH you can cross out our entire paragraph without explaining why and then say it doesn't mean anything. Good form.

Oh, we have plenty of reason to believe it's exactly what it is. It supports our argument because it was posted by scum in an attempt to get themselves cleared. Read our last line on the commentary of your hydra log. This rationalization doesn't help you at all.

Instead of viewing the log objectively like Tom says, you view everything through a scum filter and make it out to be scummy because it goes along with your bull**** argument. That was what Tom is saying and he's completely correct in saying so. The amount of reaching you're doing to take that log and force it to read as us trying to clear ourselves is bull.

Then you, my good man, don't know me very well. There's no way to play this game without an incredible surplus of self-confidence, but I appreciate the compliment even if it was more ad-hominen.

Key word: misplaced

Big bad Kuz ad-hominening Ryker.

Boo-hoo, poor me.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Vocal, you're trying to make me revise my earlier statement to a safety net of two players, aren't you. Read the damn thing.

Oh and I have things to do during the day, sorry I didn't immediately drop everything I was doing to take hours out of my day to respond to that wall of incandescent misinterpretation. Plus the other two one-liners were done by Tom while I was away from my computer.

12 hours in a game with no deadlines and he's already calling me out for inactivity.

Oh, how did I miss this little gem.

You've been hounding me to play Borderlands. I got a text message from Laundry much earlier in the day (around 4pm, I think) bothering me to play with him, you, and Gova. I log into skype, and you messaged me wanting to play. You know what? I know just how long you're typically on Skype. I just got off a scum team with you and died in a game we were hydra'd in. Don't give me this bull****.

 

[th3duder]

Is it wrong that I don't want to read the hydra log? I really just feel like it's pointless to read. If they want to say something, they can just say it, right? You can call be extremely skeptical, but I really don't see how anything useful could be gleaned from them.

If that's your opinion on it then, as tom said, no one is forcing you to read it. We both don't even like the idea of being able to include hydra logs, but since its allowed we used it anyway.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Son of a *****.

uhhh, MS, i was gonna do some things but you're totally stealing my thunder here...

guess i'll just watch now.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

If i have one thing to say, i don't like the fact duder did indeed post his logs, then Ryker incriminating him for doing so, Ryker even goes one step further by using outside of game meta against him, and that's really pushing it for a case.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

Instead of viewing the log objectively like Tom says, you view everything through a scum filter and make it out to be scummy because it goes along with your bull**** argument. That was what Tom is saying and he's completely correct in saying so. The amount of reaching you're doing to take that log and force it to read as us trying to clear ourselves is bull.

If anyone can argue for a reason to include the last lines of that hydra log that aren't scum motivated, they're playing way dumber than I've ever seen Soup act.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

If i have one thing to say, i don't like the fact duder did indeed post his logs, then Ryker incriminating him for doing so, Ryker even goes one step further by using outside of game meta against him, and that's really pushing it for a case.

Welcome to Metaville, home of the Hydralogs. I responded to two meta arguments. Shut the **** up.

 

[-Vocal-]

Vocal, you're trying to make me revise my earlier statement to a safety net of two players, aren't you. Read the damn thing.

I'm not trying to make you do anything. I'm just sharing my opinion. Don't call me an expert, extrapolate what you like - you might know better than I do. Just saying that I find hydra logs a crapshoot really; I'd rather just pay attention to things they actually say in the thread.

 

[Meadowsizzle]

S-s-s-s-s-s-s-strawman.

What ad-hominen? You're claim we're Nazi's aren't you? Isn't that what Nazis do? Strike fear into the hearts of the little children who oppose us?

In all serious, cut this ****. Ad-hominens are all you've to every single player this entire game in almost every single post. The fact that you are even trying to play the innocent card is disgustingly low and underhanded. Not to mention hypocritical. Get that **** out of here.

Its also nice to see that after whining like a 6 year old for not getting your case exactly when you wanted it, you suddenly have no time to address it and dismiss the entire thing as saying "no u." I pointed out contradictions in your attack everywhere but I guess now its not important to respond to them.

Hilarious because strawmanning is something I'm going to painstaking efforts to remove from your playbook.

That's laughable. Anyone who spends time in DGames Social Chat KNOWS that we've recently discussed that trading walls is a terrible idea for a townie.

Oh, what? I don't think we've tried to discredit your case on us with ad-hominen. Yeah, that's right, you know why? Because you haven't presented one. You consistently use ad-hominen to attempt to undermine us without coming out and blatantly call us scum. Instead you want to mess with the Razieks, the Chibos, and the Beat's of the world.

 

[th3duder]

Oh, how did I miss this little gem.

You've been hounding me to play Borderlands. I got a text message from Laundry much earlier in the day (around 4pm, I think) bothering me to play with him, you, and Gova. I log into skype, and you messaged me wanting to play. You know what? I know just how long you're typically on Skype. I just got off a scum team with you and died in a game we were hydra'd in. Don't give me this bull****.

I can't believe you're actually trying to pin me for inactivity for not responding to your post within half a day of you posting the first case.

Grow up dude.

Just because I was on skype doesn't mean I wasn't doing other things away from my computer, which I was. The fact that you even had the nerve to use outside meta about what I do in a day pretty much just made me lose all respect for you and your posts.

Not to mention that for all this commotion you've been making for me not posting it, you completely ignored it when I actually did post it, which makes your attack disingenuous. If you actually gave two ****s about what I had to say you would be looking through it right now and responding accordingly. You just dismiss the whole thing and pound on points that you can pound on safely without getting your hands dirty and it shows.

I'm done with your childishness, not worth my time.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hm.

gonna be honest, i'm starting to think this arguement is gonna go into TvT mode, if it hasn't already, my gut is leaning towards duder for my own suspicisions, but i'm still looking at this.

Ryker, i hate to get into a 3-way but i'm gonna have to comment on your bits of arguements, same goes with duder.