Meta The Fighter Atelier: A Place for the Customs Meta

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#81
So who do we think are the top of the customs meta right now? What characters do notably better here than their default counterparts?
Trivially, Palutena. But I think she's basically a given on any list of characters that get noticeably better in customs.

I'd also nominate Wii Fit Trainer, Ganondorf, Duck Hunt, and Samus as contenders for that list.

Note that this is just "characters that do better" not "top tier". I have no idea who's top tier in customs, but I'd actually expect it to be pretty similar to default. There isn't that much shuffling going on.
 
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#82
At the risk of being shouted down for calling them custom moves, my not-Palutena answer would be Mii Brawler. His criminally low knockback stats give him a harder time killing anything than any other character I can name. But both custom Up Bs directly fix the issue, and are even better recovery moves than default. We've also had a bit of arguments previously for Mario and Falco having great custom options.

What I want to know is: what character benefits the least from customs? Besides, obviously DLC characters that have none. Metaknight seems like the clear winner (loser) here. Luigi, Dedede, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Pit, and Bowser Jr come to mind for runner ups. But none of them have completely worthless options like MK
 
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#83
What option is not worthless for Jigglypuff? or Zelda?
I mean, Zelda gets sidegrades to her already near-unusable Specials.
And Jigglypuff gets a gimmick in Uthrow>Leaping Rest.
But the rest of your listed characters have usable or matchup-specific options.

Meta Knight doesn't get much from Customs simply because his default Special Moves are pretty good (he'd still be a semi-viable threat, like a lot of the DLCs). And still his Side Customs have uses.
:196:
 
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paperchao

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#84
As a follow up, who indirectly benefits in customs by having good matchups become more common?
 

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#85
What option is not worthless for Jigglypuff? or Zelda?
I mean, Zelda gets sidegrades to her already near-unusable Specials.
And Jigglypuff gets a gimmick in Uthrow>Leaping Rest.
But the rest of your listed characters have usable or matchup-specific options.

Meta Knight doesn't get much from Customs simply because his default Special Moves are pretty good (he'd still be a semi-viable threat, like a lot of the DLCs). And still his Side Customs have uses.
:196:
Din's Blaze is good and the Phantoms are pretty good sidegrades, but I guess they don't do much for Zelda's viability in the long run.
So who do we think are the top of the customs meta right now? What characters do notably better here than their default counterparts?
Mario gains a ton from all his customs and is very likely top 5 with them. Dr. Mario gains similarly, but goes from low tier to mid tier or so rather than lower top tier to tippy top tier. Sheik also gains a fair bit from her neutral and side B customs and I think that with the removal of her d-throw 50-50, Gravity Grenade and maybe Paralyzing Needles could be important for her to get kill confirms. I also think that Pisces may be less viable now that Sheik relies on her Bouncing Fish followups for kills so much now and Pisces doesn't get the same confirms. Can't speak on Jellyfish.
 

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#87
Din's Blaze is good until the opponent realizes it is not as laughably easy to avoid as Din's Fire, but still really easy.
I actually like the Phantom sidegrades, but the move is still pretty bad.

Hey, is the frame data for Marth's custom down B's anywhere? Kurogane doesn't list customs.
Maybe we can bug him hard enough for him to consider it, and then a bit more to get it to work.
:196:
 
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#88
What option is not worthless for Jigglypuff? or Zelda?
I mean, Zelda gets sidegrades to her already near-unusable Specials.
And Jigglypuff gets a gimmick in Uthrow>Leaping Rest.
But the rest of your listed characters have usable or matchup-specific options.

Meta Knight doesn't get much from Customs simply because his default Special Moves are pretty good (he'd still be a semi-viable threat, like a lot of the DLCs). And still his Side Customs have uses.
:196:
Not sure what to make of Zelda overall, but I'd say the alterations to Din's Fire are a relevant enough gain. Jigglypuff gets more out of Leaping Rest than a throw kill combo. Since the default Rest is still functionally in there just with much less KO power. The rising, weaker hit has a lot of promise, since while her horizontal air speed is top tier, her ability to gain height fast to hit something above her is awful. So it shouldn't be surprising that Utilt, Uair, late hit of Pound, and Sideways pound all confirm into it, not just Uthrow. Speaking of which, Sideways pound is pretty good. Less punishable on block, is a multihit which is difficult to block in the first place. Better recovery by angling it upward, and the aforementioned hit confirm into leaping rest.

Maybe we can bug him hard enough for him to consider it, and then a bit more to get it to work.
:196:
As part of our block advantage charts, we've included data on custom moves for most characters, including Marth. And we continue to add information when possible. Though for knockback stats and active hit frames, you'll still need to rely on sources like this one, and the pastebin is updated only to 1.04. But it's the same data Kurogane provides on his website.
 
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#89
As part of our block advantage charts, we've included data on custom moves for most characters, including Marth. And we continue to add information when possible. Though for knockback stats and active hit frames, you'll still need to rely on sources like this one, and the pastebin is updated only to 1.04. But it's the same data Kurogane provides on his website.
Don't forget to add Mega Man :<

By the way, I think Mega Man's default set is pretty solid. I've broken shields before with Crash Bomber/Leaf Shield/Metal Blade/dash attack. I'd like to hear more about reasons to use Ice Slasher, Shadow Blade and Hyper Bomb. Even when I dj dthrow to recatch Hyper Bomb, it still has the same slow trajectory.
 

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#90
Unlocked Jellyfish and Gale yesterday to complete Sheik's customs last night. I've gotta say that I'm really fond of Jellyfish. It cannot be confirmed into by any means as far as I tested since it's too slow for the hitbox to come out, but the same setups for Bouncing Fish aside from n-air -> BF work pretty well with JF. It seems really good after a baited airdodge after a F-throw, f-air, f-tilt or something. Kills really early off the sides too and is great for edgeguarding. As I said before, Sheik loses a good recovery mixup and one of her best ways to get out of disadvantage with Jellyfish, but it can be used for vertical recovery near the ledge and the extra kill power is well worth it.

Also did some testing on confirms into Pisces and it seems that soft N-air and f-air true combo into it at high percents, but the knockback direction can make it difficult to actually net stocks off of these. F-throw and b-throw are fine setups, but not combos. I do like Pisces for recovery purposes since it goes quick and far and discourages edgeguarding with the backwards knockback and high kill power, as well as for its mobility purposes, but I think it's currently the worst of the three Sheik down Bs. Still kinda viable though.
 
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#91
Unlocked Jellyfish and Gale yesterday to complete Sheik's customs last night. I've gotta say that I'm really fond of Jellyfish. It cannot be confirmed into by any means as far as I tested since it's too slow for the hitbox to come out, but the same setups for Bouncing Fish aside from n-air -> BF work pretty well with JF. It seems really good after a baited airdodge after a F-throw, f-air, f-tilt or something. Kills really early off the sides too and is great for edgeguarding. As I said before, Sheik loses a good recovery mixup and one of her best ways to get out of disadvantage with Jellyfish, but it can be used for vertical recovery near the ledge and the extra kill power is well worth it.

Also did some testing on confirms into Pisces and it seems that soft N-air and f-air true combo into it at high percents, but the knockback direction can make it difficult to actually net stocks off of these. F-throw and b-throw are fine setups, but not combos. I do like Pisces for recovery purposes since it goes quick and far and discourages edgeguarding with the backwards knockback and high kill power, as well as for its mobility purposes, but I think it's currently the worst of the three Sheik down Bs. Still kinda viable though.
Interesting point with fthrow > Jellyfish. With the new throw angle, that opens up some possibilities.
 

Gideon Warrior

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#92
Question here; what characters definitely benefits most from Customs, outside of the obvious Villager, Ganondorf and Pikachu? Am quite curious about it.
 

Jaguar360

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#93
Question here; what characters definitely benefits most from Customs, outside of the obvious Villager, Ganondorf and Pikachu? Am quite curious about it.
:4palutena: - Lightweight and Super Speed give her even more mobility and Lightweight makes D-throw -> U-air true combo and kill really early. Explosive Flame is also a really good alternative to Autorectile.

:4mario::4drmario: - Their customs allow them to be much more versatile and they improve a lot with them. Fast Fireballs/pills improve their neutrals against much of the cast and can set up for jab locks. Their Cape customs are both great, Shocking Cape especially on regular Mario since D-throw can combo into it and kill. One Ol' Two/Explosive Jump Punch kills really early and can be comboed into, while Super Jump can also be useful to go deep for edgeguards and get gimped less easily. Mario's F.L.U.D.D. customs are both great, especially Scalding F.L.U.D.D. since that can be used to start combos. Doc's Soaring Tornado is a good alternative to regular for recovering vertically and getting early kills.

:4charizard: - Dragon Rush pushes this character to another level with its recovery, edgeguarding and punishing uses (though Blast Burn is also pretty good). He also gets mileage out of Fly High for recovery, Rock Hurl for earlier super armor and his neutral B customs are decent sidegrades (at least imo).

:4dk: - Kong Cyclone may be overrated since it can be air dodged out of pretty easily and lacks the amount of damage that Spinning Kong has, but it's still really good for the autocancel window and windbox. Neutral B customs are really good. Lighting Punch is especially underrated with its charge speed and still has the ability to kill at high percents. Both down B customs are pretty good as well.

:rosalina: - Luma Warp and Shooting Star Bit are insanely good customs. Luma Warp provides tricky setups while Shooting Star Bit is pretty much like a Melee Falco laser that improves her walling ability.

:4bowser: - Dash Slash is worth mentioning alone, improving his mobility drastically with the psuedo-wavedash that it provides, giving him a new recovery option and a new move to combo off of.

:4sonic: - Hammer Spin Dash and Burning Spin Dash are both insane. Hammer Spin Dash can bury opponents to find up smash kills and the high jump can be annoying to deal with especially on stages with platforms, while the damage output and combos from Burning Spin Dash are also really notable.

:4sheik: - Piercing Needles are pretty much an upgrade to regular needles at this point with their charge speed and shield pressure, while Paralyzing Needles can help patch up her killing weaknesses. Burst Grenade can combo into sweetpot U-smash at kill percent, so it's really useful. Down B customs are worth using for their kill power, though Bouncing Fish is a bit more consistent and versatile than both of them. Jellyfish seems to be the better of the two down B customs atm.

:4fox: - Twisting Fox kills incredibly early and can be used after a job lock, a ledge getup read or an airdodge read. One of his Blaster customs functions like his Smash 64 Blaster, improving his neutral a bit (and probably jab locks as well, but I haven't seen it used for this). The side B customs and down B customs also have their own little quirks.

Megaman, Marth, Lucina, Ike, Wario, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, Shulk, Link and Falco also gain quite a bit from customs, but I'm not going to talk about them in detail.
 
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Ninety

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#94
Say, how good is Charizard's Rising Cyclone up B? I had been testing it a bit and was pleasantly surprised with its kill power, but then again it murders his vertical recovery and for all I know Fly kills nearly as well. Is it worth it, or does Zard need the recovery more than another kill option?
 
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#95
:rosalina: - Luma Shot and Shooting Star Bit are insanely good customs. Luma Shot provides tricky setups while Shooting Star Bit is pretty much like a Melee Falco laser that improves her walling ability.
You mean Luma Warp. Luma Shot is the default.

I'd also add Wii Fit Trainer to that list for Jumbo Hoops at the very least, but honestly all of her customs are interesting.
 

Drazerg

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#96
Hey guys, I had an idea I felt I should bring to attention.
First, here are some of the few issues custom moves can cause...

- Unlocking all customs
- Deciding and preparing move sets to accommodate most the community
- Possible Stalling via move exploits
- RNG factor can influence the plethora of additional moves.

* A good way to fix this would be to only allow ONE CHANGED CUSTOM out of your move set.
This means you can only have: 1111, 1112, 1121, 1211, 2111, 1113, 1131, 1311, 3111.

It would add an extra level of depth to the game without being too much to take in.

That's a combination of 9 possible move sets on a character, reducing a lot of the RNG of not knowing the match up.
These 8 custom sets can be easily made and won't create frustration that yours is not present, and it only takes one 3DS with all the moves to get a WiiU set.

I would also ban moves that overly promotes stalling, Villager's Counter tree and Sonic's Hammer Spin Charge come to mind.

I'd rather not go over Mii Fighters.
They take longer to make and can have controversy.
 
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nebulark

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#97
This has already been discussed in this thread: Competitive Smash Ruleset Discussion. I find it only useful as a temporary measure to make playes more familiar with customs. I think it works great to introduce a playerbase to custom moves, without making it overly complicated. Everyone should be able to adjust to one move. If it works out you can go full customs afterwards.

I am against banning any custom move. Players should always be able to adjust to certain moves. Moves that overly promote stalling keep beeing beaten and aren't the best option. If you still lose against them, you either are the worse player or you haven't had enough experience against them.
If it's about the viewers I don't really agree. If you want to watch fast gameplay you can watch melee. Smash 4 is slower and much more neutral heavy. I like watching someone play against "stallager" interesting, when the skill difference isn't to big. I find the way the matchup is played very interesting. It realy changes up the value and effectiveness of certain things, which is a nice change.
 

ParanoidDrone

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#98
I mean, I did horribly rude things to my friend's Ike as Bayonetta, but since he doesn't actually own the game yet and I do, and he hasn't played any of the DLC yet and I bought it all day 1, is Bayonetta actually OP or is my friend just unfamiliar with her? (Okay, bad example because Bayonetta, but you get the point.)

One custom per set is good in a "get your feet wet" sort of way but I wouldn't support it as anything other than "baby's first custom fighter".
 
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#99
I'm very curious as to know about Link in the Customs Meta. Is he a top tier, high tier or middle tier thanks to his custom moves? I feel like having his Piercing Arrows, Boomerang, (Vanilla) Spin Attack and Meteor Bombs would make him a force to be reckoned with, since he has so many more additional options against opponents and some more reliable projectiles.

Anyone's thoughts?
 
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Ordering by Tiers in the Customs Meta is very difficult, for starters because the meta isn't developed enough.

Somewhere in this thread someone already made a good analysis on Link's customs.
:196:
 

paperchao

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Ordering by Tiers in the Customs Meta is very difficult, for starters because the meta isn't developed enough.

Somewhere in this thread someone already made a good analysis on Link's customs.
:196:
Yea, customs is stuck in a stagnant state due to lack of tourneys to encourage practice. So unless we see another major pick up customs, meta development will be slow. On another note, do any of the customs characters have a good matchup with some top tiers that they lost in default at the moment? Stuff like cloud
 
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Ninety

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Unfortunately, unless there's a big paradigm shift sometime in the future, customs as a meta seems to be pretty dead in the water. Side events at big tournaments is about the best we can hope for, and the meta for so many new options would likely take a long time of active use to stabilize.
 

paperchao

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Unfortunately, unless there's a big paradigm shift sometime in the future, customs as a meta seems to be pretty dead in the water. Side events at big tournaments is about the best we can hope for, and the meta for so many new options would likely take a long time of active use to stabilize.
It's unfortunate, but now the customs meta just needs to get more people interested in it to at least develop the meta from a theory standpoint, and then when a side event comes, that theory can get put into the test (assuming there are players attending that are using their actual characters and not just camping with trip sapling to try and prove a point for like the 50th time)
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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I know that I don't keep track of the competitive scene, but I'll just bring up my own comments on some of the custom special moves.

:4mario:
Fast Fireball: Less powerful than Fireball, but it's easier to spam with.
Scalding F.L.U.D.D.: More useful offensively, despite having less range than F.L.U.D.D..

:4dk:
Hot Slap: Being able to hit airborne targets feels good, especially when the move deals more damage as well.

:4link:
Boomerang: More effective on offense without the risk of bringing anyone towards you.
Whirling Leap: Greatly improves Link's recovery, though you can't deal any damage with it.

:4yoshi:
Egg Launch: Although opponents can break free from the egg quicker, this move can prove to be a big threat for any fighter whose horizontal recovery is very poor.

:4kirby:
Upper Cutter: Strikes faster, and while it does leave Kirby helpless, at least it doesn't mess up his horizontal recovery.

:4pikachu:
Quick Feet: Basically designed for those who have trouble with Quick Attack. The increased distance helps as well.

:4ness:
Lasting PK Thunder: Easier to control, and can't be gimped so easily either, which can help Ness's recovery more.

:4bowser:
Fire Shot: A bit more convenient on offense, as it doesn't weaken over time.

:4ganondorf:
Dark Fists: Much more effective on offense, and the longer start-up time offers a better horizontal reach too.
Wizard's Dropkick: Improves Ganondorf's horizontal recovery, despite being weaker, and lacking any meteor smash properties.

:4metaknight:
Dreadful Tornado: While this move does deal less damage overall, its knockback is not to be underestimated. Just beware of the ending lag increase in the end.
Blade Coaster: The move can still be used offensively, and offers better horizontal distance.

:4wario:
Rose-Scented Waft: Charges faster, and while it does deal less knockback, adding flowers onto your opponent's head can help Wario finish off his adversary more easily.

:4myfriends:
Aether Drive: This move's increased horizontal distance can mean that you can try mixing up your recovery between using Quick Draw or Aether Drive.

:4charizard:
Dragon Rush: No need to worry about damage penalties with this move, and it can't be stopped prematurely either.
Fly High: Although it can't deal any damage, the increased vertical distance is nice for recovering low.

:4olimar:
Winged Pikmin Jump: Better vertical recovery in the sense that you don't have to worry about your Pikmin supply weakening the ascent.

:4villager:
Balloon High Jump: Better vertical recovery, especially when recovering low.

:rosalina:
Luma Warp: Can't be reflected, and enables Rosalina to put the Luma at a desired spot quicker.
Shooting Star Bit: Travels quite far, and very handy for putting pressure from a distance.
Guardian Luma: Designed for fighters who lack projectiles, the move can help keep their approach options at bay.

:4littlemac:
Stunning Straight Lunge: Despite not offering knockback resistance, the move can at least travel far without having to be fully charged.
Guard Breaker: While this move is not good in terms of recovery, being unblockable means that you can deliver a big blow without any fear of the attack getting blocked or countered.

:4greninja:
High-Capacity Pump: Albeit being slower, the travel distance increase is always welcome.
Exploding Attack: Although this move does not counter, it's an improvement over a counterattack that lacks any invincibility frames.

:4palutena:
Angelic Missile: Helps Palutena's horizontal recovery quite well without having to use any mid-air jumps.

:4bowserjr:
Piercing Cannon: Although it deals less damage and knockback, the move fires faster to make up for it.
Koopa Drift: While the move is less powerful, being able to deliver multiple weak hits during the spinout at least makes it safer to use. It also improves Bowser Jr.'s horizontal recovery quite well.
Major Ejection: While the decreased vertical distance may be inconvenient for recovery, the added meteor smash property means that you could potentially gimp an opponent's recovery if you time the attack just right.
Impatient Mechakoopa: More designed to be a projectile, but it can potentially be used to juggle opponents around, and since it explodes upon landing, opponents can't really use the Mechakoopa against Bowser Jr. without possessing a reflecting move.

:4duckhunt:
High-Explosive Shot: A bit more convenient as a projectile in the sense that it travels farther, and you have more control over when the can explodes.

Again, I can't exactly say how good the moves are competitively.
 

Red Stache

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If I remember correctly... Yes.
I thought so too. I remember there being a picture that showed how huge the hit box was on the move.

I also remember Wario players, choosing Rose Waft over Wario Waft, because the huge size (plus less charge time) appeared to make to better choice to KO or combo into.
 

GUIGUI

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I have difficulty finding the individual ruleset for each game on EVO. Will customs be allowed like last years? EVO is the only big event to have ever allowed customs, it would be nice that at least this one remains.
 
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paperchao

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I have difficulty finding the individual ruleset for each game on EVO. Will customs be allowed like last years? EVO is the only big event to have ever allowed customs, it would be nice that at least this one remains.
I believe it's running Genesis 3's ruleset, so no customs unfortunately
 

Ninety

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I think the DLC's are affected more strongly than what that would suggest in a customs meta. They're still as good as ever, but some characters (including high and top tiers) just get almost straight upgrades from customs. Also, custom Villager is overrated.
 

Funbot28

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I think the DLC's are affected more strongly than what that would suggest in a customs meta. They're still as good as ever, but some characters (including high and top tiers) just get almost straight upgrades from customs. Also, custom Villager is overrated.
Good DLC (ie; Cloud, Ryu, Bayo, etc..) don't really lose anything in customs meta and thats why I believe they are still amazing either way, maybe not as much as the new upgraded fighters but still, they don't get overclassed by anything really.

Also the tripping sap garbage is enough to put Vilager in S, he controls the neutral with just that move lol.
 
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paperchao

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Here is my idea for a custom 1.16 Tier List:



Thoughts?
Mario and sonic should be 1 tier higher, they have really good customs that give them amazing adaptability

Good DLC (ie; Cloud, Ryu, Bayo, etc..) don't really lose anything in customs meta and thats why I believe they are still amazing either way, maybe not as much as the new upgraded fighters but still, they don't get overclassed by anything really.

Also the tripping sap garbage is enough to put Vilager in S, he controls the neutral with just that move lol.
One thing to note is that the saplings trip range is pretty small, and it loses kill power on the axe and tree, definitely a good move, but it is kinda overrated
 
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Yes, the standard Down B Tree and Axe serve as vital kill options and edgeguarding tools for the Villager. The KO potential of both are severely reduced when you pick trip sapling. The trip sapling's danger as a camp option was also dependent on the old explosive balloon trip, which was nerfed to very questionable usefulness now that just about anybody can easily get around and punish it, instead of a select few opponents with super armor or invulnerable attacks.

I would also put Pikachu higher. No matter how you feel about his tier placement in Normals, the Heavy Skull Bash's kill power at close range is a fantastic boon for a character that excels in so many other relevant areas of competitive play. I also have to disagree with Kirby's placement. Jumping Inhale is scary good against certain matchups that have poor recovery or choose worse recovery moves, like Mario's Explosive Punch/Shocking Cape setup, Upper Cutter is a better recovery move while also serving as a combo finisher and kill option he simply doesn't have otherwise, and his other hammers and stone moves show some potential as well. That's a lot of upgrades and options for a solid mid-tier character. Ganondorf I don't think benefits quite that much from customs. His preferred choices have a very dubious way of combatting his design flaws of movement, recovery, and long range fighting. If you can fight Ganondorf, you can take on his custom variant with the same strategies. Ditto for Bowser Jr, but on the grounds that his custom options provide much less, and that he's already a sure candidate for low tier
 

paperchao

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Ganondorf only definitively wants dark fists In customs I believe, as it's really good for things ganon struggles with like oos, can armor through untrue strings(?) And being really, really strong. Wizards dropkick is a side grade with the regular kick being good in a decent amount of mus before buffs. Then I know the killing choke has utility against rosa, but that's all I know, Ganons pretty interesting in customs.
 

Routa

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I think you heavily underrate the power of Mii fighters (mainly Gunner). Most of the customs-on tournaments have Any Size Miis available.

If I remember correctly the killing choke has less range (or travels a shorter distance) so it is kinda 50/50. I remember adom saying that the normal wizz kick is atm better than the dropkick variation.

Also Wario can spam speedy bike and has 3 different yet viable wafts (killpower/hitbox/off-stage).
 

Rakurai

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Sep 17, 2014
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Samus is a lot better then E tier with customs enabled, I'd say C tier at worst. The trip bombs and slow missiles improve her neutral game significantly by allowing her to control space better, while both neutral B customs and the power up B make it easier for her to get kills.

Also, Wario is generally considered high tier normally, and he only gets better with customs, so I think he's still A tier material. The speeding bike is his biggest improvement, as it allows for easy follow-ups on hit, is harder to punish at mid-close range then the standard bike, and makes his already amazing recovery even better. The Quick Waft sacrifices power for availability, and the fact that it has frame 2 super armor means you can just mash it out to escape or punish in situations you normally wouldn't be able to. The Rose Waft causes a ridiculous amount of damage if your opponent doesn't commit to mashing to get the flower off faster, and the bogus hitbox makes it great for edgeguarding.
 

ぱみゅ

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So you guys realize that list is pretty much the 4BR's with few switched places?

DLCs aren't really hurt in viability with Customs unless they were bad characters already (Roy), good characters remain good.
Stall Villager is highly overrated by the community, as well as Wind Kong.
Miis in general THRIVE for customs, not only because of Helicopter Kick but also Gunner's and Swordfighter's flexibility on their projectules is well-appreciated.
Shulk's Power Vision doesn't suddenly make him high tier.

And I can't really comment on the rest because the Customs meta is still unexplored enough for a proper tier list.
:196:
 

paperchao

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So I guess I'll post my own tier list, not ordered btw, just a viability rankings so to speak. I'll have explanations up later as I'm currently on mobile. Top tier:A, high tier:B mid tier:C & low tier:D
Edit: explanations
Mewtwo: mewtwo is a great character now with patches, as he has amazing mobility, great normals and great Aerials. He possesses a great array of specials as well, shadow ball is a versatile projectile, being usable like luigis fireballs, and samus charge shot as well, and b-reverses gives it utility as a movement option. His only real weakness is lack of weight and huge frame giving him a meh disadvantage.
Megaman: megaman has a versatile set of customs that boosts him quite a bit (along with shiek nerfs.) Danger wrap compliments up air pretty well for juggles, skull barrier is reflector you can walk around with which is a unique trait for one. Shadow blade has great followup potential with its boomerang esque qualities.
Marth: buffs+great customs makes him a considerable force in customs. Crescent slash is a cool side grade that gives marth a followup after f-throw, strengthening his grab, it also has great kill power, making marth's grab scary at the ledge at some percents. Dashing assault is a recovery/movement option that can be b-reversed. Lai counter is a harder hitting counter, has less active frames tho.
Shulk: one of the most under-rated customs characters. Decisive monado arts gives shulk amazing boosted versions of his arts, at the cost of being stuck in them, but you have more time with the art which can be a side grade. Advancing air slash is a great up b, it allows shulk to snap to the ledge, is hard to punish, and is great oos. Power vision is self explanatory, while dash vision is really good in projectile matchups too. I may have missed some things but I'll definitely answer questions about my list
 

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