The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[TFree Mario's best friend]

No one mentions that Olimar's ship that is his final smash is also an item.

 

[N. Onymous]

No one mentions that Olimar's ship that is his final smash is also an item.

This too is a good point. It's not quite as relevant as the Screw Attack or Launch Star since Olimar can't call upon its effects at will, but it still shows that just because something heavily associated with a certain character appears as an item does not mean it can't also appear in their moveset.

 

[SchAlternate]

Imagine Lip dual wielding Lip's Sticks

 

[N. Onymous]

Imagine Lip dual wielding Lip's Sticks

Or: Something I've been meaning to draw for ages but have never gotten around to for some reason.

 

[Siggy88]

Now that I think about it, wouldn't having constant access to a DPS effect be kind of broken? I mean, unless she gets extremely poor killing potential, I don't know how things could get balanced.

I know Jigglypuff already has it, but Rest can be hard to hit with.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, they could always tie the flower effect, if she'd even get it that is, to a combo mechanic and balance it around that. Like, landing a specific amount of hits with her wand, Could actually be pretty interesting. Like do you go for a weak combo and cause damage over time or do you go for single, strong attacks in hopes of landing a finishing blow? You'd have to gauge the situation and know what to do, pretty fitting for a puzzle fighter.

And besides, it can't be more obnoxious than Olimar and his Pikmin spam, hehe.

Actually kinda funny that topic came up, I'm currently trying to come up with a moveset myself, but I've never done it before so it's going pretty slowly. And no, sorry, don't get your hopes up, that doesn't mean I'm going to import her, I'm just trying to think of one for fun. Just saying so there won't be any misunderstandings.

 

[N. Onymous]

Actually kinda funny that topic came up, I'm currently trying to come up with a moveset myself, but I've never done it before so it's going pretty slowly. And no, sorry, don't get your hopes up, that doesn't mean I'm going to import her, I'm just trying to think of
one for fun. Just saying so there won't be any misunderstandings.

Well, when you're done with it, feel free to post it here. The more movesets the merrier!

 

[Deleted member]

I think we can all agree that the Lip I made was missing a crucial detail, so I went ahead and fixed it:

Spoiler: Custom made with textures taken from the Wii U game

Spoiler: Bonus

At first I wanted to make the closed flower a proper spiral like ingame, but decided against it and went for a regular cone to keep the poly count lower. I think it looks good enough like this anyway.

 

[N. Onymous]

If Lippy is ever in the same Smash game as the Lip's Stick item, that would be a very easy way to distinguish them--having Lip's version closed most of the time (and maybe be a bit more detailed), while the item is always open.

 

[SchAlternate]

The item could also be justified as being a replica of the original.

 

[StarDustStorm]

If Lippy is ever in the same Smash game as the Lip's Stick item, that would be a very easy way to distinguish them--having Lip's version closed most of the time (and maybe be a bit more detailed), while the item is always open.

They probably redesigned the Home-Run Bat in Sm4sh because it had the same color scheme as Ness' Baseball Bat... plus it was probably of the assets used when they were making Ness in 64. The Lipstick will just make it easier to make the character because the model exists just like how they used the Flying Man model for the Mii Outfit.

 

[Deleted member]

Perhaps Lip's base moves are super weak and she has to build up damage through the Lip flower effect with her specials and smash attacks, and then have some sort of finisher move that's mainly effective at high percentage?

Idunno how that'd work, but it could parallel with how Panel De Pon is a versus puzzle game where you kinda stack up your attacks to actually be efficient.

 

[N. Onymous]

Maybe Lip would have the choice between a flurry of weak attacks with a decisive finisher, or one nice, long combo to finish the enemy off at a low percentage. In Panel de Pon, a storm of combos can be just as effective as a long, deliberate chain. It'd suit her easily.

 

[StarDustStorm]

In Captain Rainbow, it mentions she wants to be a great magician so maybe they can incorporate some wand movements.

Also I was just looking into Melee's Lip Trophy and noticed that they don't want to describe the wielder after this game anymore. They only describe what the item does. Its like they don't want people to know where it is from. In addition to naming Furil as Lip (error), already mentioned in this thread.
Another error is mentioning Tetris Attack in 4 Wii U's Europe Version.

Another franchise that does get errors like this is also the Mother Series, even though EarthBound was released in Europe, they don't use the VC release date they act like its not available for people to play despite it being a Masterpiece trial in the game. Along with misnaming Lucas' hometown, and in Brawl Describing the first appearance of the Franklin Badge to debut in EarthBound, NOT Beginnings, so they better rename the first game in Ultimate and not calling it Mother.

They represented Sukapon and Takamaru both are from the Famicom though I should note that Sukapon is from the generation shift from Famicom to Super Famicom, though no title was released on the Super Famicom.
In terms of content Panel de Pon had at least 3 stickers, the other 2 only had one Sticker. Would you consider her item being represented in Melee, Brawl and Sm4sh as higher representative than an assist trophy since there's a lot of characters that can be summoned. Murasame (2) and Panel De Pon (1) has very few songs in Smash. Joy Mech Fight has none confirmed as of now. Though a Mii outfit (Takamaru has one) would still be considered minor compared to something that affects gameplay.

 

[N. Onymous]

Would you consider her item being represented in Melee, Brawl and Sm4sh as higher representative than an assist trophy since there's a lot of characters that can be summoned.

I would not, considering it's just her wand and not the character herself.

I think the fact that a lot of potential retro characters (particularly those from the NES/Famicom era) have been consigned to Assist Trophies or lack any real moveset potential, combined with the little potentially-good-things we've picked up along the way like the redesigned flower and the lack of the aforementioned item anywhere so far, means good things for Lip. But this is coming from the same guy who was legitimately worried over a fake leak of Geolyte from Meteos, so...

 

[StarDustStorm]

I would not, considering it's just her wand and not the character herself.

I think the fact that a lot of potential retro characters (particularly those from the NES/Famicom era) have been consigned to Assist Trophies or lack any real moveset potential, combined with the little potentially-good-things we've picked up along the way like the redesigned flower and the lack of the aforementioned item anywhere so far, means good things for Lip. But this is coming from the same guy who was legitimately worried over a fake leak of Geolyte from Meteos, so...

Meteos is third party though, and I don't think he fits with other third party characters but the game was involved with Sakurai in some way so it is possible it can be an exception. This game does have some relation to Panel de Pon's puzzle system, the mentioned that Puzzle Games has not evolved since that game.

Compared to a Minor Universe, it is lacking that they don't actually show the actual character.
Even minor universes such as the Wonderful 101 was able to appear as a trophy, not a good way to represent Panel de Pon, but Sakurai acknowledging Japan-only games such as Sukapon in form of an Assist Trophy shows how far back he'll go for older games. Maybe Sukapon would just be made up of punches and kicks which is why he might've not included him even though he doesn't have limbs, it can just be for looks he wants characters to do more than just those two things.
"For Mega Man as well, if all we cared about was who we could get in the game, then he would just have regular old punches and kicks, like how he largely does in the Marvel vs. Capcom series."
"Working that fully into the game results in a more complete Mega Man that we can give you. That's why he's done up in NES-era proportions rather than something more realistic; that's why he's a little expressionless; that's why his jumping and damage motions and the way he can fire the Mega Buster while walking are all what they are. It's all in an effort to present the character."
From this article
Mega Man is a really good example on choosing a fighter, so I think Lip fits the criteria but the character would have to dance in his head which is the biggest challenge. I think Daisy's association with flowers sort of lowers her chances a little since it wouldn't be as unique for aesthetics.
But they can make the effects similar to the original game as seen with Lucas and Ness which is how they made them more distinct furthering the gap between the characters.

 

[N. Onymous]

As an Echo Fighter, Daisy isn't hurting anyone's chances. It'd surprise me if she didn't have at least a few flowering attacks, but I don't see her posing any kind of threat to Lip at all since the two characters are entirely unique, besides having vaguely similar designs and personalities. The purpose of echo fighters is as last-minute additions to pad the roster. If Lip is in Smash Ultimate, she would have been decided on long before Daisy crossed anyone's mind.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As an Echo Fighter, Daisy isn't hurting anyone's chances. It'd surprise me if she didn't have at least a few flowering attacks, but I don't see her posing kind of threat to Lip at all since the two characters are entirely unique, besides having vaguely similar designs and personalities. The purpose of echo fighters is as last-minute additions to pad the roster. If Lip is in Smash Ultimate, she would have been decided on long before Daisy crossed anyone's mind.

I'm really hoping she is the Japanese pandering character we get

 

[Siggy88]

I would not, considering it's just her wand and not the character herself.

I think the fact that a lot of potential retro characters (particularly those from the NES/Famicom era) have been consigned to Assist Trophies or lack any real moveset potential, combined with the little potentially-good-things we've picked up along the way like the redesigned flower and the lack of the aforementioned item anywhere so far, means good things for Lip. But this is coming from the same guy who was legitimately worried over a fake leak of Geolyte from Meteos, so...

Yeah, that Geolyte leak had me going for a while. It was really tough to discredit it, but some other guys noticed some inconsistencies in the hud and that battlefield image matched 1:1 to the one used in promonional sites.

Now that was a really well done leak.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm really hoping she is the Japanese pandering character we get

Well, we'll all keep our fingers crossed, but our expectations low. Don't be like me when SSB4's roster was revealed.

 

[StarDustStorm]

The reason Fire Emblem and EarthBound was represented in the Smash Bros. Series was because the games were popular in Japan, Panel de Pon isn't nearly as popular compared to those two Franchises, and they have merchandise produced then just games.
Why would they decide to take out the Fairies even in Japan on the GBA, Gameboy. and DS (Minor cameo)? Nintendo obviously believed they can make more money by doing that to appeal to more people, of course those fans of the Fairy aesthetic definitely did not like it, and those versions weren't even re-released on the VC in Japan.

In Captain Rainbow, the game represented the less popular Nintendo characters. Lip is considered to not be as popular to the two I described above since she was included. (no FE or EB was represented though Little Mac was in the game who was in the roster.)
Sakurai wondered if people will actually recognize her. Yes both EB and FE weren't that know outside of Japan, but since there's not much Nintendo IPs to represent if you just look at one region, the choices will feel limited back in Melee, plus I notice a ton of Japanese only trophies in the game, later removed in Brawl-Onwards but at least them being known in the region gave them a chance to participate.

The cult of Panel De Pon can only hope she was part of the December 2015 Project plan which was before the Welcome Amiibo Update and Famicom Mini. Unless plans for Dlc comes out after, and Sakurai did know about the Welcome Amiibo update.

 

[N. Onymous]

Honestly, the "no Japan-only or dead franchises" rule introduced in Smash 4, after Fire Emblem was brought over entirely due to Melee and Pit's appearance in Brawl lead to a widely acclaimed revival of his series, is plain hypocritical. I really hope they've done away with it for this one. It's like you said, it arbitrarily limits the roster solely for marketability's sake.

After the F-Zero medley revealed today, I legit want a vocal remix of Panel de Pon music. Maybe the credits theme?

 

[FooltheFlames]

Nice to see I'm still on the Veterans list
Thanks for remembering me Onymous~<3

Hopefully the 5th time really will be the charm! I think Lip perfectly fits the role of the traditional random wtf retro character Sakurai likes to add into every game (Game&Watch, ROB, Duckhunt)

I do believe Sakurai is on record somewhere stating he's a fan of hers; he only wishes she had more presence in todays modern games ( don't we all? xD)

 

[Siggy88]

I do believe Sakurai is on record somewhere stating he's a fan of hers; he only wishes she had more presence in todays modern games ( don't we all? xD)

I don't think he said he was a fan of hers particularly, more like he acknowledges that Panel de Pon is a great game when asked to include more female characters, which if you remember, Brawl and Melee barely had any. He asks if people even remember her at all.

However, the interview you're referring to was from like 2002. That was ages ago, and Smash 4 did include a lot more female fighters.

http://fryguy64.proboards.com/thread/2418

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

After the F-Zero medley revealed today, I legit want a vocal remix of Panel de Pon music. Maybe the credits theme?

That credits theme?

If it got vocals... my God, it'd be beautiful.

 

[FooltheFlames]

I don't think he said he was a fan of hers particularly, more like he acknowledges that Panel de Pon is a great game when asked to include more female characters, which if you remember, Brawl and Melee barely had any. He asks if people even remember her at all.

However, the interview you're referring to was from like 2002. That was ages ago, and Smash 4 did include a lot more female fighters.

http://fryguy64.proboards.com/thread/2418

Ah... I see. That's still good news to me. He's like one of the few game devs out there that still acknowledge her existence and stuffs

 

[『SwingingStar』]

I don't think he said he was a fan of hers particularly, more like he acknowledges that Panel de Pon is a great game when asked to include more female characters, which if you remember, Brawl and Melee barely had any. He asks if people even remember her at all.

However, the interview you're referring to was from like 2002. That was ages ago, and Smash 4 did include a lot more female fighters.

http://fryguy64.proboards.com/thread/2418

If you've seen Meteos, a puzzle game that Sakurai designed, it's obvious he puts Panel de Pon in high regard. That game is a pretty out there spiritual succesor to PdP's mechanics. It starts by making the slide vertical, and goes nuts.

That credits theme?

If it got vocals... my God, it'd be beautiful.

Any of the ending themes could make for a pretty sweet remix, really.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally, I think an arrangement made by Yoko Shimomura would just be perfect and I'd love for that to happen. I can't think of a more fitting person to make a Panel de Pon remix. Though I admit I'm biased here, as she's my favorite composer.

 

[N. Onymous]

Speaking just for myself, if I ever got the chance to design/work on a Panel de Pon RPG (please hire me nintendo), I would get Yoko Shimomura on soundtrack duties. Absolutely no question. There's just something about her style that I feel is perfect for that universe. Take a look at the Mario and Luigi series, for example. You could take the battle theme for Dream Team and put it in a Panel de Pon RPG, and it'd still fit.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe work with Yoko for the final battle themes, but maybe not as the general composer for PDP RPG. I like the light-hearted music of PDP and would rather keep it of similar calibur for that potential game idea. It would be weird to hear dramatic orchestrations of Lip's theme tbh.

 

[Deleted member]

I like the light-hearted music of PDP and would rather keep it of similar calibur for that potential game idea. It would be weird to hear dramatic orchestrations of Lip's theme tbh.

You mean like the entirety of the Mario RPGs which were also done completely by her? She's very much capable of making upbeat songs and not just dramatic orchestrations:

Spoiler

Or for something non Mario related:

Spoiler

(Sorry, no OST on Youtube for this one)

Basically, while classical music is her main inspiration, it's not the only thing she's capable of, so I think it's a bit unfair to say she can't handle a lighthearted soundtrack by herself. I mean, I doubt Nintendo would've let her made all the Mario RPG soundtracks otherwise.

 

[PsychoJosh]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

mood music for the pic

(before you get offended this joke is from the simpsons, calm yourself)

 

[SchAlternate]

Heyyyy, good old Bourgyman remembers.

 

[N. Onymous]

Well, that was unexpected. Good to see a reference from outside of this fandom.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Heyyyy, good old Bourgyman remembers.

Lip is behind a background of Tetris blocks...

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Heyyyy, good old Bourgyman remembers.

Well, this is gonna be a my new avatar now.

 

[StarDustStorm]

I like the comic

New part of that Lip series by the person who made the other 3 parts where she crosses over with other Smash Bros. Fighters.

Spoiler: Sort of inappropriate thumbnail

 

[Siggy88]

I like the comic

New part of that Lip series by the person who made the other 3 parts where she crosses over with other Smash Bros. Fighters.

Spoiler: Sort of inappropriate thumbnail

Beat me to it. I liked this one, the last two were... weird.

 

[N. Onymous]

Lip is behind a background of Tetris blocks...

It's panels. I checked, and none of the colored blocks in the background are in Tetromino (sp?) shapes.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have this sudden strong feeling today that Lip will appear in Ultimate in some form.

If Sukapon could get in as an AT, I think her appearance to at least an AT will surely happen as well.

That is, assuming she is not playable.