The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[N. Onymous]

Probably yeah, there are apparently 50+ new Assist trophies yet only about half of that number has been shown so far. So some things where most likely taken out of the demo. Guess we'll see in the coming month's what will happen...

I'm knocking on wood so hard right now you guys.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

I'm knocking on wood so hard right now you guys.

I think he meant there's 50+ ATs in total rather than 50+ new ATs.

 

[PsychoJosh]

50 ATs... yeah, I imagine some of Smashboards' "poll winners" are in there.

Bandana Dee, Captain Toad... Ashley.

It's possible Lip might be among them if she's in the game at all. The fact that there are 50 of them seems to indicate that they're using it as a way to give people what they want without actually giving them what they want.

Sakurai is being coy, he says he hopes we're not expecting many more newcomers, but he surely knows we are. I mean even people with "conservative" wishlists are expecting at least 7 more characters. It's crazy.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think he meant there's 50+ ATs in total rather than 50+ new ATs.

Whoops, sorry for my poor use of wording but yeah, that's what I meant.

 

[Camc10]

If we include the missing ATs from Brawl and 4, we would actually have 55 assist trophies.

 

[N. Onymous]

Sakurai is being coy, he says he hopes we're not expecting many more newcomers, but he surely knows we are. I mean even people with "conservative" wishlists are expecting at least 7 more characters. It's crazy.

5-7 sounds about right, considering every other Smash game has introduced far more than that. The question here is whether or not Echo Characters are counted as newcomers...

 

[Camc10]

5-7 sounds about right, considering every other Smash game has introduced far more than that. The question here is whether or not Echo Characters are counted as newcomers...

Whether we do or dont, i would not count them in the 5-7 "real" characters. I saw someone bring this up in another topic where the New Echo Fighters would be like the 6 clones of Melee.

 

[JBRPG]

Well, I somehow managed to stumble across a fan animation and it is the new rage for fans ever since the official trailer came out.

The introduction is well animated and the channel is apprently a hardcore Panel de Pon Fan

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Well, I somehow managed to stumble across a fan animation and it is the new rage for fans ever since the official trailer came out.

The introduction is well animated and the channel is apprently a hardcore Panel de Pon Fan

This was already posted a few pages back but thanks anyway.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Question: How much was Lip campaigned during the Smash ballot? I initially thought that Takamaru would be the most voted retro in the ballot. But with all of the dedication to Lip I seen in Japan and the West, she might just have been the most voted retro.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I don't know, really. I think there were some crazy people making houndreds of submits for Lip, like with Daisy.
If the Ballot detects a single IP-Adress for them all, I'd say RIP over LIP, but I did at least submit one for her. At least it's some support. And I know others did as well. Unfortuanately, we had to see Takamaru die, again, for people to open their eyes for our Lippy. Since, apparently, Villager's Up-B straight out deconfirms Balloon Fighter somehow, and the fact that people haven't seen Lip's stick yet makes people talk ... Even if Lip's stick is shown, I would not lose hope, yet.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The recent fake Vergeben leak going on that has Lip in the roster has made me rethink of her chances. I.. might actually make an in-depth analysis of the character tomorrow. I feel like I have something going on in my head that makes me think her chances are actually greater than we thought.

 

[GoodGrief741]

What fake Vergeben leak?

 

[Crap-Zapper]

BluePikmin11 That would be awesome! I know I'd appreciate it, I know you are going to do K. Rool as well, so that would be my two most wanted characters at this point.

 

[N. Onymous]

If the Ballot detects a single IP-Adress for them all, I'd say RIP over LIP, but I did at least submit one for her. At least it's some support. And I know others did as well.

I submitted a vote for Lip, and I know Kapus did too. In fact, I feel like all of the votes for Lip were legit. They came from people who legitimately care about the character and had no reason to try and sabotage her chances.

What fake Vergeben leak?

Some joker came into the Smash Bros. Ultimate general thread and claimed to be Vergeben, then dumped the full roster of the game, claiming the new characters to be Dark Samus, Chrom, Shadow, Decidueye, Geno, K. Rool, Excitebiker, Captain Rainbow, and Simon Belmont. Oh yeah, and someone else. Someone short and fond of flowers. I've never wanted a leak to be true more in my life.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

It would be a dream. I was very young when I first played Pokémon Puzzle League, being hooked on the anime, this was just really cool. The art, the music, and the gameplay, it was fun. Later, on the emulator, I kept playing it, even as recently as this year, in fact just a couple of months back. After this, I felt like tracking the source, and tried Panel De Pon myself, it really was something. It was challenging, but fun. And that's what I like about it, and that seems like the route for Lip to be in Smash as well. Challenging, but fun.

I've never been a fan of fairies, or cute little girls, but Lip is something different, and does not just represent her appearence, but the game itself, the fondness of the mechanics, the music, and just all around on how fun it is, at least to me. Therefore, I really would love it one day, if Lip got her chance to shine.

 

[N. Onymous]

Let's keep hope in our hearts that day is today, or at least very soon. Even if there's not a lot of hope we can have, at least it's something.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Looking into Lip's RTC day, it seems like us supporters focused more on the current state of the franchise, rather than looking into the ballot, which will likely influence Sakurai's decision on who will be chosen (The most popular retro being most likely to be chosen). If possible, we supporters should team up tomorrow to look and research into the popularity of Lip and compare her popularity to other retro choices like Excitebike and Mach Rider. I feel like we are really onto something here.

 

[N. Onymous]

Back when I first rated Lip's odds, I wasn't sure whether 30% was too high or too low. Her real odds are probably (definitely) a lot lower than what I gave her, if all of the newcomers will be sourced from the ballot, probably somewhere in the 10-20% range if I'm trying to be at all realistic.

Still, there's the wishful thinking that someone at Sora will be combing the ballot not for who was most popular (Bayonetta wasn't), but for who has the greatest moveset potential--and what's more, stumble upon some votes for this character from the US and Europe, proving that people outside of Japan know about her, miss her, and would love to see her strut her stuff in the metaphorical big leagues.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If you put it that way, maybe Takamaru and Lip were very popular choices. Maybe Takamaru could have been more popular, but Lip could have been chosen due to her having the greatest moveset potential. I mean, her being a magical-girl-like character that fights with flower combining the potential moves she could utilize via Panel de Pon gameplay could have been seen by Sakurai as far more unique and distinct.

 

[PsychoJosh]

We'll do it for Lip!

The hour of flower power has not passed us by yet! It is still upon us!

 

[Takasmash]

I would bet my money that Lip Reveal smash trailer will be so adorable and cute.

 

[N. Onymous]

I would bet my money that Lip Reveal smash trailer will be so adorable and cute.

If we get a Lip reveal trailer.

Alright, Sakurai, you've made your stance on this abundantly clear. What body part and/or beloved family member must I sacrifice to get Lip in as playable?

 

[Calane]

...I'm actually surprised to see such dedication and support for Lip. She has always been a character that I liked, and even though I've never got the chance to play her game, I would be very happy to see her join the roster in Ultimate. I'd be extremely interested to see her get a Pit-like redesign (even though I don't really think she needs one). I think it would give her a new lease on life in a similar way to the angel captain himself.

This isn't really related to anything, but I love the ending credits theme for Panel de Pon. If she actually made it into the game, I hope that song receives a remake or something. It's just too good.

 

[PsychoJosh]

It's a good song, but I don't think it works in a battle context. I want to avoid music like that in the next Smash (although they probably won't and we'll likely get more annoying whistling and acoustic guitar songs that don't fit the game in any way possible).

 

[Calane]

It's a good song, but I don't think it works in a battle context. I want to avoid music like that in the next Smash (although they probably won't and we'll likely get more annoying whistling and acoustic guitar songs that don't fit the game in any way possible).

I understand what you mean, but that doesn't bother me at all. I don't think every song in the game needs to work in a battle context. I mean, just listen to the amazing "Magicant / Eight Melodies" song in Smash 4. This is just my opinion, however.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I understand what you mean, but that doesn't bother me at all. I don't think every song in the game needs to work in a battle context. I mean, just listen to the amazing "Magicant / Eight Melodies" song in Smash 4. This is just my opinion, however.

Yeah, I hate Smash 4's music selection. I think it's worst in the series.

I don't think every song needs to be a pure battle theme but I do think they need to have some acknowledgement of what the context of the game is. These characters aren't coming together to sip tea and chat about the weather.

 

[Calane]

Yeah, I hate Smash 4's music selection. I think it's worst in the series.

I don't think every song needs to be a pure battle theme but I do think they need to have some acknowledgement of what the context of the game is. These characters aren't coming together to sip tea and chat about the weather.

...I see. I guess we're just going to have to disagree on that. People have different opinions, and I respect yours.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Even if we don't get her inn this time, this bond and dedication I view, perhaps we campaign for her even better the next time, and get more people on board, over the popular, or to rival Takamaru and the other Retro's?

 

[Slyshock]

Data

There are roughly 947 illustrations on Pixiv tagged パネルでポン (panerudeponn).
One illustration can be anything from a single picture to a series of pictures to an animation.

謎の村雨城 (nazonomurasamejou) has 74, while 鷹丸 (takamaru) has 93.
Lip features in a few of these pictures as part of the Captain Rainbow crew.

パネルでポン (panerudeponn) has had 51 new illustrations uploaded this year.
Only 10 of these were tagged リップ (rippu), but she was clearly featured in several untagged illustrations as well.

謎の村雨城 (nazonomurasamejou) and 鷹丸 (takamaru) combined have had 3 new illustrations uploaded after 2016.

Looking at the 40 most recent illustrations, パネルでポン (panerudeponn) has work from 25 different artists.
鷹丸 (takamaru) has work from 20 different artists.

パネルでポン (panerudeponn) has 20 "novels" (fanfiction).
謎の村雨城 (nazonomurasamejou) has 1.

Notes

Initially I had data gathered for the リップ (rippu) tag, but unfortunately her tag is shared with the body part. She does have a tag that specifically references her, but it's quite underused with only 16 illustrations.

I didn't filter out R-18 illustrations. If I did, パネルでポン (panerudeponn) would lose 63 illustrations and 1 novel, while 鷹丸 (takamaru) would lose 2 illustrations.

The 40 most recent illustrations tagged either 謎の村雨城 (nazonomurasamejou) or 鷹丸 (takamaru) had nearly twice as many favorites as the 40 most recent illustrations tagged パネルでポン (panerudeponn), but this could be due to the fact that less illustrations equals more visibility. Unfortunately, only premium accounts can sort by popularity, so I can't tell who has the most favorites overall.

This doesn't necessarily reflect ballot popularity, and doesn't even necessarily reflect overall popularity. That being said, I believe that Pixiv is as good a place as any to dig around looking for clues as to whom Japan favors.

Both リップ (rippu) and 鷹丸 (takamaru) occasionally reference Smash, though since Takamaru is already in as both an assist trophy and costume I'd personally put more weight on Lip's illustrations.

パネルでポン (panerudeponn) has a surprising amount of recent illustrations dedicated to one fanmade spinoff universe. It's possible that the popularity of the series isn't wide so much as it is deep.

This fansite pops up a lot, it looks like it functions as both a general Panel de Pon fanpage and an information page for the above spinoff.

This isn't meant to disparage Takamaru, he's just being used for comparison.

 

[Camc10]

As a question, how many retro characters have been supported to join Smash before appearing as a AT or stage character?(people like Game & Watch and Duck Hunt and not like Littie Mac)

 

[Crap-Zapper]

As a question, how many retro characters have been supported to join Smash before appearing as a AT or stage character?(people like Game & Watch and Duck Hunt and not like Littie Mac)

Good question. Most of Smash speculation started around Brawl, as it would be the sequal to Melee, which was the definetive Smash game to hook people onto the series. We had at the time Ice Climbers which was unique for being a dual character, which was new. And no one really knew Mr. Game & Watch, very few people knew who the character where supose to resemble when they first encountered the "New Challenger" sign of him back in Melee.

Brawl was more on those characters we did not have. Diddy Kong, ANY Kirby character, Ridley, Krystal from Star Fox, Geno from Super Mario RPG, and Sonic where huge names back in that game. Therefore, no Retro where that much thought upon. We did not know what WTF characters where back then. When there came a leak with R.O.B on it, people discredited it right away, and when it was known that R.O.B actually were part of the game, people really got salty, and really hated the inclusion. So, a negative O for Retro's during Brawl.

Then we come to the recent Smash 4, which was going to feature 3DS and Wii U version. Now, with most notorious fighters present in Brawl, with the likes of 2 new Kirby additions, Olimar for Pikmin, Wolf for Star Fox, and Pokémon Trainer, people rested easy, and sprung up their diet coke can of character possibility, and everything popped out.

When we got Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer confirmed, it really branched out. We got yet another Game & Watch, and R.O.B character in Wii Fit Trainer. We got sad, really sad to know that our beloved Ice Climbers would not return, and knowing that cut's came around, people where afraid of losing others, and as time went on Charizard was a stand alone, people lost their mind. Ridley, yet again, dead. WHAT IS THIS GAME EVEN, we thought.

Still, in the wake of this time period, we had a small group for Lip. A big one for Takamaru, as Pit's Brawl debut made it apparent that, Pit, Samus, Link and this time their last same year guy, Takamaru would debut. Even Mike Jones had some support at that time. As with Lip, a very small fanbase for Balloon Fighter were also present, perhaps the two underdogs of the Retro this time. The biggest underdog, was Duck Hunt Dog himself. One guy was out of his mind crazy obsessed with getting that laughing dog into Smash, and HE was the one who got his wish through.

Now, for Ultimate, I'd say, now that Taku is gone, and people feel like Villager's up-b would disconfirm Balloon Fighter, people have started looking into two Retro picks. The most notorious one is Excitebike Racer. I personally don't see him feasable, nor interesting, and the other one is Lip, perhaps in the minority, but visable.

Retro is actually something we have come to expect, this time around, and was more something we got really surprised by earlier. Now that we start to see "patterns", which is not even there, and trying to unlock the mind of a madman/genious, which NO ONE will manage to predict, it's just to give up, or have fun with the speculation.


Regarding Little Mac. Since his inclusion in Brawl as an Assist Trophy, he got notriously big on the request scene, but because of the Wii Game for "Punch-Out" people did not view Little Mac as a true retro. Hence why I never mentioned him in the analyse, but I guess I should clear that out since you mentioned him specifically.
That's my view of the Retro battle in Smash.

 

[Camc10]

Good question. Most of Smash speculation started around Brawl, as it would be the sequal to Melee, which was the definetive Smash game to hook people onto the series. We had at the time Ice Climbers which was unique for being a dual character, which was new. And no one really knew Mr. Game & Watch, very few people knew who the character where supose to resemble when they first encountered the "New Challenger" sign of him back in Melee.

Brawl was more on those characters we did not have. Diddy Kong, ANY Kirby character, Ridley, Krystal from Star Fox, Geno from Super Mario RPG, and Sonic where huge names back in that game. Therefore, no Retro where that much thought upon. We did not know what WTF characters where back then. When there came a leak with R.O.B on it, people discredited it right away, and when it was known that R.O.B actually were part of the game, people really got salty, and really hated the inclusion. So, a negative O for Retro's during Brawl.

Then we come to the recent Smash 4, which was going to feature 3DS and Wii U version. Now, with most notorious fighters present in Brawl, with the likes of 2 new Kirby additions, Olimar for Pikmin, Wolf for Star Fox, and Pokémon Trainer, people rested easy, and sprung up their diet coke can of character possibility, and everything popped out.

When we got Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer confirmed, it really branched out. We got yet another Game & Watch, and R.O.B character in Wii Fit Trainer. We got sad, really sad to know that our beloved Ice Climbers would not return, and knowing that cut's came around, people where afraid of losing others, and as time went on Charizard was a stand alone, people lost their mind. Ridley, yet again, dead. WHAT IS THIS GAME EVEN, we thought.

Still, in the wake of this time period, we had a small group for Lip. A big one for Takamaru, as Pit's Brawl debut made it apparent that, Pit, Samus, Link and this time their last same year guy, Takamaru would debut. Even Mike Jones had some support at that time. As with Lip, a very small fanbase for Balloon Fighter were also present, perhaps the two underdogs of the Retro this time. The biggest underdog, was Duck Hunt Dog himself. One guy was out of his mind crazy obsessed with getting that laughing dog into Smash, and HE was the one who got his wish through.

Now, for Ultimate, I'd say, now that Taku is gone, and people feel like Villager's up-b would disconfirm Balloon Fighter, people have started looking into two Retro picks. The most notorious one is Excitebike Racer. I personally don't see him feasable, nor interesting, and the other one is Lip, perhaps in the minority, but visable.

Retro is actually something we have come to expect, this time around, and was more something we got really surprised by earlier. Now that we start to see "patterns", which is not even there, and trying to unlock the mind of a madman/genious, which NO ONE will manage to predict, it's just to give up, or have fun with the speculation.


Regarding Little Mac. Since his inclusion in Brawl as an Assist Trophy, he got notriously big on the request scene, but because of the Wii Game for "Punch-Out" people did not view Little Mac as a true retro. Hence why I never mentioned him in the analyse, but I guess I should clear that out since you mentioned him specifically.
That's my view of the Retro battle in Smash.

Honestly, i don't count Mac as a retro character.

 

[N. Onymous]

Little Mac had a game within the last 5 years of Smash 4's release, so no, he is not a retro.

 

[PsychoJosh]

What determines a retro character to me is the age of the game they originate from, not how old their most recent game is.

Pac Man has had new games come out as recently as last year but he is still a quintessential retro character.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Is Doctor Mario, retro?

I put it as quite questionable.

Lip is Retro, because Panel De Pon never recieved a full rerelease as PDP.
Dr. Mario has, still, we remember him as Retro. Perhaps because the game's story and/or formula has not changed that much? Perhaps it's the consistant of the gameplay of one game that makes it Retro? What do you guys think?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I looked into Smash Ballot votes for every plausible retro, from Sable to Takamaru to Excitebike to Mach Rider on Twitter. I searched the character alongside additional terms such as 'vote', 'ballot', and 'smash'. Lip had the most notable amount of Smash ballot tweets, although most of them came from Patrick Adams. He loves his puzzle games for sure. Though that being said, Lip having the most notable amount of tweets does not mean much, as the number of tweets of her is rather small, not even reaching 100. Though it does show the strong dedication supporters have for Lip.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I looked into Smash Ballot votes for every plausible retro, from Sable to Takamaru to Excitebike to Mach Rider on Twitter. I searched the character alongside additional terms such as 'vote', 'ballot', and 'smash'. Lip had the most notable amount of Smash ballot tweets, although most of them came from Patrick Adams. He loves his puzzle games for sure. Though that being said, Lip having the most notable amount of tweets does not mean much, as the number of tweets of her is rather small, not even reaching 100. Though it does show the strong dedication supporters have for Lip.

That's actually pretty awesome! Thanks for looking into it.

 

[Camc10]

Is Doctor Mario, retro?

I put it as quite questionable.

Lip is Retro, because Panel De Pon never recieved a full rerelease as PDP.
Dr. Mario has, still, we remember him as Retro. Perhaps because the game's story and/or formula has not changed that much? Perhaps it's the consistant of the gameplay of one game that makes it Retro? What do you guys think?

i also would not count Doc as retro either since for both 4 and Melee (i assume) Doc had a game kinda recently (Dr. Mario N64 and Dr. Luigi)

 

[BluePikmin11]

I found some interesting things upon researching Panel de Pon on Twitter:

1.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a famous YouTuber who did vote for Lip in the Smash Ballot.

2. I have seen more people passionately campaign for a Panel de Pon revival than of Murasame Castle.

3. Panel de Pon has as much of an dedicated Western following as For the Frog the Bell Tolls.

4. And surprisingly, Kamiya also had questions asked by users about PDP, one of them had the funniest response.

Also upon researching further, I also learned there was a Japan-only game of Tetris featuring Cardcaptor Sakura characters, it is the craziest thing. Researching has been a fun time so far.