The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[smashkirby]

Panel de Pon songs could still end up under "Others" if only the SNES/SFC game is represented, which I could definitely see happening.

Honestly, when I was talking about the Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt songs thing, I forgot to mention that I personally see Lip borrowing more from HER game for music, NOT Furil's, honestly.

Well... OK, maybe a song or two from Furil's game...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's kinda iffy, considering Cloud gets his music under FF VII, not Final Fantasy, even though it's two songs total.

Because it's literally licensed under FFVII specifically. They're also songs that show up in FFVII as is. It makes perfect sense. Being a 3rd party matters too. The number of songs isn't always the key factor.

 

[N. Onymous]

Honestly, when I was talking about the Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt songs thing, I forgot to mention that I personally see Lip borrowing more from HER game for music, NOT Furil's, honestly.

Well... OK, maybe a song or two from Furil's game...

Maybe a few songs from the Nintendo Puzzle Collection characters who don't have equivalents in the original game, like the Lion or Joker, but I'd definitely think the SNES Panel de Pon is the one that would be more heavily represented.

 

[SchAlternate]

By this point, and given past mistakes, I would've just thrown the towel and come to terms with her likely absence. I mean, it's not like she not being in affects my opinion on the game at this point, given how many of the most requested characters have made it in already. I absolutely applaud Sakurai for this devotion to the fanbase, and Lip not being in wouldn't change that.

But dammit, I'm a stubborn *******. I never gave up on Mewtwo. I never gave up on Ridley. And I never gave up on K. Rool.

I'm not giving up on Lip either. I still hope she herself gets to appear in this game in any capacity, be it playable or Assist Trophy.

 

[Camc10]

The same goes for R.O.B's Stack Up/Gyromite theme as well.

Also, Mute City 3DS is actually now called Mute City SNES but your point still stands.

Wait, why is it called Mute City SNES when when Mute City melee isn't in?

 

[Kapus]

I think she still has a chance as a bizarro retro choice or assist trophy, if only because there are only so many characters left that aren’t already in the game. Even Daisy is playable now.

I’ll keep an eye out but overall I’ve still come to terms with the idea that she’s probably still absent. The game will never be “ultimate” to me without Lip, but it’s still shaping up to be the best smash bros to date. I’m excited.

 

[N. Onymous]

Well, like I said, isn't putting a character who one would think would be deconfirmed because of her item (not that this means a lot, as we've said) in the game an absolutely Sakurai thing to do? This is a Smash that's all about breaking the established rules of the series.

Wait, why is it called Mute City SNES when when Mute City melee isn't in?

Maybe it is in and we just don't know about it yet. Mushroom Kingdom 64 wasn't revealed first thing, either.

 

[Camc10]

Maybe it is in and we just don't know about it yet. Mushroom Kingdom 64 wasn't revealed yet either.

I don't know, i feel like we are done with returning stages. If a stage isnt in a feel that its either not coming back, redundant, or is getting a (stage name) 2 like Pictochat 2 or Flatzone X

 

[N. Onymous]

I don't know, i feel like we are done with returning stages. If a stage isnt in a feel that its either not coming back, redundant, or is getting a (stage name) 2 like Pictochat 2 or Flatzone X

Well, if that's the impression you get... I feel like they will try for as many stages as possible, though.

 

[Camc10]

Well, if that's the impression you get... I feel like they will try for as many stages as possible, though.

I think so to, but since Bill said that not every stage is coming back (so far only 17 of 96 are missing excluding Big/Battlefield and FD) i feel if they weren't revealed in the stage blowout we had today, its not coming back, especially since like the roster, the stages are also ordered by when they appeared in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Now that the dust has settled somewhat, lemme quickly say I'm gonna take a short break from that Popples stuff you saw earlier and finish my Gangplank Galleon. The K. Rool hype is real and I'm so happy he's in. Should be done by the end of this week, then I'll go back to Popples, now that nearly all the islands are finished and the majority is done. Like, I might take a short break, but I sure ain't giving up on Lip just yet.

 

[N. Onymous]

Now that the dust has settled somewhat, lemme quickly say I'm gonna take a short break from that Popples stuff you saw earlier and finish my Gangplank Galleon. The K. Rool hype is real and I'm so happy he's in. Should be done by the end of this week, then I'll go back to Popples, now that nearly all the islands are finished and the majority is done. Like, I might take a short break, but I sure ain't giving up on Lip just yet.

None of us are. Take as much time as you need to make sure that ship is ship-shape. We'll still be here when you're ready!

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Well, not much to say at this point, I remain cautiously optimistic. The fact that she wasn't shown as an Assist Trophy is both a blessing and a curse at the same time and if she's playable, I don't expect her to be revealed before the game is released.

I know this is a late reply but didn't Sakurai say in the Direct yesterday that he plans to reveal the design of every fighter before the game releases?
If so, I can see Lip being the very last character officially revealed to fufill the role of the "obscure and unexpected" character he tends to add and reveal last in each game like Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B and Duck Hunt Duo (if she's playable).

 

[JaidynReiman]

I know this is a late reply but didn't Sakurai say in the Direct yesterday that he plans to reveal the design of every fighter before the game releases?
If so, I can see Lip being the very last character revealed (if she's playable).

I can't. Lip isn't that hype of a character. I can see them saving her for second-to-last, but not last. Last IMO is going to be someone big. I'm honestly predicting Banjo now.


Lip... is still in a weird position. I'm predicting AT for right now. Her flowers getting redesigned is still weird. I don't understand why that happened at all. Maybe there's a chance of a stage and slim chance of playable.

Wait, why is it called Mute City SNES when when Mute City melee isn't in?

Because Mute City Melee probably is in, they just haven't announced it yet.


I think Sakurai's statement in the Direct was a mistranslation. He was saying we're now "up to 103" stages, rather than "our max total is 103". We're also missing Orbital Gate Assault, but there's a planet on Meta Knight's page that is only found on Orbital Gate Assault. Plus, I find it hard to believe he'd reveal EVERY SINGLE stage six months out, and not have a single other new IP.

Ok, its not Meta Knight's page, its the About page, Meta Knight is just in the image.

https://imgur.com/gallery/QHuJEcK



Another possibility is that it could be a new Star Fox stage (based on Zero) with that planet in the background instead. Either way, we're not done with stages yet.



EDIT: Just wanted to point something out I noticed.


They're still hesitant to reveal Lip's Stick fully. This... could be something of note. Lip could still be a surprise character, maybe. For some reason, Lip's Stick isn't listed on the items page, despite being on Richter's page. Its really weird. I don't quite get it. It'll be interesting to see how things play out here.

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Just wanted to point something out I noticed.


They're still hesitant to reveal Lip's Stick fully. This... could be something of note. Lip could still be a surprise character, maybe. For some reason, Lip's Stick isn't listed on the items page, despite being on Richter's page. Its really weird. I don't quite get it. It'll be interesting to see how things play out here.

I don't think this means anything since the Lip's Stick has always been revealed casually among other things. Like in Brawl, it was first shown in an update showcasing Munchlax and in SSB4, it was shown in an image dump following the Smash Direct featuring Greninja's reveal. You also have to keep in mind that some confirmed items like the Smart Bomb, the Party Ball, the Metal Box and the Killer Eye aren't on the site either and I doubt that their absence means anything significant so I'm afraid this really doesn't mean anything IMO.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Does anyone think that the statement on revealing every character before release is the truth or a misdirect? Cause if we still operate under the idea that secret characters will still be a thing; I'd say Lip's chances would increase immensely

 

[zferolie]

Lip feels like she could be our Retro character for the game. I always kinda wanted her. even with lips stick in the game she could still come.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

She makes perfect as Retro.

Ask yourself this;

Would you rather have a female captain falcon with a motorhead helmet? A character who is only driving on a little motorbike? or a flowery fairy with puzzle powers and other magic elements?

I know what I've picked, hence what thread I'm inn.

 

[N. Onymous]

Out of all the newcomers we've had revealed so far, only three (Inkling, Daisy, and Chrom) are as popular, or almost as popular, in Japan as they are internationally. Everyone else (Ridley and Dark Samus from Metroid, K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country, Simon and Richter from Castlevania) is from a franchise with much greater appeal to international audiences than Japanese ones. Which is exactly what I was afraid would happen, really. Japanese fans are actually complaining that they got Castlevania characters playable over Bomberman. At some point, they're gonna have to add a character or characters with heavy appeal to Japanese audiences to avoid completely alienating that market.

...Please let that character be Lip...

 

[zferolie]

Out of all the newcomers we've had revealed so far, only three (Inkling, Daisy, and Chrom) are as popular, or almost as popular, in Japan as they are internationally. Everyone else (Ridley and Dark Samus from Metroid, K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country, Simon and Richter from Castlevania) is from a franchise with much greater appeal to international audiences than Japanese ones. Which is exactly what I was afraid would happen, really. Japanese fans are actually complaining that they got Castlevania characters playable over Bomberman. At some point, they're gonna have to add a character or characters with heavy appeal to Japanese audiences to avoid completely alienating that market.

...Please let that character be Lip...

I did notice that. I assume Japan was more upset about Ashley being deconfirmed then the rest of the world as well.

It would be odd not to have a popular japanese pick in the game, Lip could be that, as could a Xenoblade, or a pokemon too. Lip I think would be interesting for sure

 

[Motor Bug2005]

Out of all the newcomers we've had revealed so far, only three (Inkling, Daisy, and Chrom) are as popular, or almost as popular, in Japan as they are internationally. Everyone else (Ridley and Dark Samus from Metroid, K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country, Simon and Richter from Castlevania) is from a franchise with much greater appeal to international audiences than Japanese ones. Which is exactly what I was afraid would happen, really. Japanese fans are actually complaining that they got Castlevania characters playable over Bomberman. At some point, they're gonna have to add a character or characters with heavy appeal to Japanese audiences to avoid completely alienating that market.

...Please let that character be Lip...

There's not many fully undisconfirmed retro characters left that fit your description. The only retro characters I can think of that fit your description are Prince Sablé, Excitebiker (not sure if this is popular in Japan) and Mach Rider (again, not sure). It's possible that Sakurai might've looked back at that poll that was conducted in 1999 that Taigiry posted (I mean, if he's revisited the idea of Ditto after over 15 years, it can't be impossible surely).

 

[zferolie]

There's not many fully undisconfirmed retro characters left that fit your description. The only retro characters I can think of that fit your description are Prince Sablé, Excitebiker (not sure if this is popular in Japan) and Mach Rider (again, not sure). It's possible that Sakurai might've looked back at that poll that was conducted in 1999 that Taigiry posted (I mean, if he's revisited the idea of Ditto after over 15 years, it can't be impossible surely).

and Hikari and Donbe from SHin Onigashmi. Lots of japanese mythology in the game, and keeps popping up from time to time

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Don't forget Ayumi Tachibana from Famicom Detective Club.

 

[zferolie]

Don't forget Ayumi Tachibana from Famicom Detective Club.

According to the wiki, she was actually considred for Melee? First time hearing that...

 

[Crap-Zapper]

According to the wiki, she was actually considred for Melee? First time hearing that...

Indeed she was.
I don't see her being an Assist Trophy, but I could see her as a fighter ... (would not mind Ayumi)

Still, I believe Lippy has a much greater chance, regarding to imaginative moveset that would be both unique to the series, and for representing the puzzle genre which Doc M does horribly.

 

[zferolie]

Indeed she was.
I don't see her being an Assist Trophy, but I could see her as a fighter ... (would not mind Ayumi)

Still, I believe Lippy has a much greater chance, regarding to imaginative moveset that would be both unique to the series, and for representing the puzzle genre which Doc M does horribly.

Yeah Lip would be a good puzzel game rep, heck even include some tetris style stuff with her as her games were based on it. could work well. Lip has also always been a retro I wanted along with Hikari and Donbe, but I can't choose who i like more

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yeah, outside of Lip, the only other Retro character I'd personally would love to see is Balloon Fighter.
And no one in this thread can tell me Balloon Fighter is out because of Villager's Up-B. I mean, Lip's stick?

So yeah, if I were ever so blessed to see both Balloon Fighter and Lip in the game I'd be forever blessed.
Still, I've been drawn more to Lip over Balloon Fighter since Smash 4.

 

[zferolie]

Yeah, outside of Lip, the only other Retro character I'd personally would love to see is Balloon Fighter.
And no one in this thread can tell me Balloon Fighter is out because of Villager's Up-B. I mean, Lip's stick?

So yeah, if I were ever so blessed to see both Balloon Fighter and Lip in the game I'd be forever blessed.
Still, I've been drawn more to Lip over Balloon Fighter since Smash 4.

I can see Balloon fighter happening since Iwata has passed. could be a love letter to Iwata.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Out of all the newcomers we've had revealed so far, only three (Inkling, Daisy, and Chrom) are as popular, or almost as popular, in Japan as they are internationally. Everyone else (Ridley and Dark Samus from Metroid, K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country, Simon and Richter from Castlevania) is from a franchise with much greater appeal to international audiences than Japanese ones. Which is exactly what I was afraid would happen, really. Japanese fans are actually complaining that they got Castlevania characters playable over Bomberman. At some point, they're gonna have to add a character or characters with heavy appeal to Japanese audiences to avoid completely alienating that market.

...Please let that character be Lip...

If I’m not mistaken, Richter is actually pretty popular in Japan, and was likely included to placate that audience.

K. Rool is also pretty popular over there, so it’s not like the game is western centric

Still, there’s bound to be some specifically Japan-centric reveals down the line, similarly to Shulk. I’m seeing Bandanna Dee and Lip revealed together.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

If I’m not mistaken, Richter is actually pretty popular in Japan, and was likely included to placate that audience.

K. Rool is also pretty popular over there, so it’s not like the game is western centric

Still, there’s bound to be some specifically Japan-centric reveals down the line, similarly to Shulk. I’m seeing Bandanna Dee and Lip revealed together.

 

[Camc10]

I can't. Lip isn't that hype of a character. I can see them saving her for second-to-last, but not last. Last IMO is going to be someone big. I'm honestly predicting Banjo now.


Lip... is still in a weird position. I'm predicting AT for right now. Her flowers getting redesigned is still weird. I don't understand why that happened at all. Maybe there's a chance of a stage and slim chance of playable.



Because Mute City Melee probably is in, they just haven't announced it yet.


I think Sakurai's statement in the Direct was a mistranslation. He was saying we're now "up to 103" stages, rather than "our max total is 103". We're also missing Orbital Gate Assault, but there's a planet on Meta Knight's page that is only found on Orbital Gate Assault. Plus, I find it hard to believe he'd reveal EVERY SINGLE stage six months out, and not have a single other new IP.

Ok, its not Meta Knight's page, its the About page, Meta Knight is just in the image.

https://imgur.com/gallery/QHuJEcK



Another possibility is that it could be a new Star Fox stage (based on Zero) with that planet in the background instead. Either way, we're not done with stages yet.



EDIT: Just wanted to point something out I noticed.


They're still hesitant to reveal Lip's Stick fully. This... could be something of note. Lip could still be a surprise character, maybe. For some reason, Lip's Stick isn't listed on the items page, despite being on Richter's page. Its really weird. I don't quite get it. It'll be interesting to see how things play out here.

I never said we are done with stages, nor do i think this is the final stage count. What i think is that we are done with returning stages.

 

[N. Onymous]

Lip... is still in a weird position. I'm predicting AT for right now. Her flowers getting redesigned is still weird. I don't understand why that happened at all. Maybe there's a chance of a stage and slim chance of playable.

I have to agree on the flower thing. It's so weird that they'd do that, but leave the item itself completely untouched. And more than a little suspicious.

If Lip is in the game then I'd predict her being revealed alongside a character who's as popular outside of Japan as inside. Lip is a cult favorite over here, but she's not terribly well known or popular among general audiences, at least not as much as in Japan. Maybe Isabelle? It'd fit as a joking reference to Animal Crossing Puzzle League.

 

[Camc10]

I have to agree on the flower thing. It's so weird that they'd do that, but leave the item itself completely untouched. And more than a little suspicious.

If Lip is in the game then I'd predict her being revealed alongside a character who's as popular outside of Japan as inside. Lip is a cult favorite over here, but she's not terribly well known or popular among general audiences, at least not in Japan. Maybe Isabelle? It'd fit as a joking reference to Animal Crossing Puzzle League.

Bandanna Dee i wanna say. A friend showed me a wiki with unused concept art and the like, and for Kirby Super Star, Kirby was gonna have a Flower power that gave him a bow similar to Lip.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Could I see an image comparison of all of the Lip Sticks and flower effects in every Smash game? I am not really caught up on the difference matter as much as the rambling mushroom theory stuff.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I never said we are done with stages, nor do i think this is the final stage count. What i think is that we are done with returning stages.

And I have to disagree. I would agree with that, except here's the thing:

1.) Every renamed stage in the game is because it shared a stage name with that of a stage in another game. Mute City Melee is weird enough being missing as is, but Muty City 3DS (which was just called Mute City) is now called Mute City SNES. Kongo Jungle Melee was renamed Kongo Falls so that it wouldn't share a name with Kongo Jungle N64. Several other stages got name changes for the same reason. Yoshi's Island N64 is now called Super Happy Tree.

2.) Barring some random situation where there's a new Star Fox stage with a blue planet in the background, we KNOW Orbital Gate Assault is back. Its not yet confirmed either.

3.) There's other glaring omissions like Jungle Hijinxs as well. Not really a straight up red flag, but it is weird that it of all stages in missing.


I think if Lip is in the game she'd be revealed in the middle of the next Smash Direct. A character like Isaac would be revealed in a general Nintendo Direct instead, or maybe Banjo (because he'd appeal to a wider audience that isn't specific to Nintendo).

 

[Camc10]

And I have to disagree. I would agree with that, except here's the thing:

1.) Every renamed stage in the game is because it shared a stage name with that of a stage in another game. Mute City Melee is weird enough being missing as is, but Muty City 3DS (which was just called Mute City) is now called Mute City SNES. Kongo Jungle Melee was renamed Kongo Falls so that it wouldn't share a name with Kongo Jungle N64. Several other stages got name changes for the same reason. Yoshi's Island N64 is now called Super Happy Tree.

2.) Barring some random situation where there's a new Star Fox stage with a blue planet in the background, we KNOW Orbital Gate Assault is back. Its not yet confirmed either.

3.) There's other glaring omissions like Jungle Hijinxs as well. Not really a straight up red flag, but it is weird that it of all stages in missing.


I think if Lip is in the game she'd be revealed in the middle of the next Smash Direct. A character like Isaac would be revealed in a general Nintendo Direct instead, or maybe Banjo (because he'd appeal to a wider audience that isn't specific to Nintendo).

You sure that stage can't be a Orbital Gate Assualt 2? Because that's what i'm thinking with Mute City.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yes because the only stages that get that kind of treatment are stages that have randomized transformation elements thrown into them. Namely, the likes of Flat Zone and Pokemon Stadium.

There's nothing to change about Mute City to make it into a "2" and no reason to change the name of the existing Mute City into Mute City SNES if they're bringing Mute City Melee back as "2" now instead of just as Mute City.


Also, Kongo Falls not only has a new name, but a massive overhaul to its appearance, and it is not treated as a new stage.


I don't think we're done with either returning or new stages. And it makes sense as to why that would be the case. Because if we were, why would they reveal them all four months out?

 

[Camc10]

Yes because the only stages that get that kind of treatment are stages that have randomized transformation elements thrown into them. Namely, the likes of Flat Zone and Pokemon Stadium.

There's nothing to change about Mute City to make it into a "2" and no reason to change the name of the existing Mute City into Mute City SNES if they're bringing Mute City Melee back as "2" now instead of just as Mute City.


Also, Kongo Falls not only has a new name, but a massive overhaul to its appearance, and it is not treated as a new stage.


I don't think we're done with either returning or new stages. And it makes sense as to why that would be the case. Because if we were, why would they reveal them all four months out?

Ill stop here since this is unrelated to lip. Basically im thinking Mute City from F Zero GX (not X like the melee version) is getting in with a Black Shadow echo.

 

[Souldin]

Okay, so I calmed down now after the direct (I always tend to get... 'annoyed' when 3rd party characters are added, and it didn't help that Ashley was in my top 5 most wanted), and so came here to provide some optimism for Lip's chances. That said, it looks like everyone's spirits have already lifted up, so that is nice to see.

I have a few pages to look through, but just saying right now, I do not believe that the Lip's Stick item counts as a de-confirmation of Lip. It's merely an item that Lip posses and it's in game affect is not directly tied into the Puzzle League gameplay. In fact, after this direct, I feel Lip actually remains with decent. perhaps even better chances of getting in, ironically thanks to her lack of presence in previous SSB games. It seems those who were Assist Trophies, despite decent climates for them, haven't been so lucky.

I did briefly browse past a few comments though, and I would be thrilled if Lip and Bandanna Dee were revealed around the same time. That'd be my number 1 and number 4 characters arriving at once. Anyway, I'll read through the comments (around page 31 onwards) when I've got chance this weekend.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yeah, it was not fun to see Ashley being deconfirmed.
Still ... Just gives me more time and energy to put more faith into my girl Lip.

I do have to admit though ... Ashley was not noted, like one of the others. She just sort of appeared there without any notion, which has not happened yet ... I find it a bit odd.