The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If I wasn't added to the Lip support, please do so.

That said, Mobile games can be odd. It is possible they'd rebrand the series for a localization, but I'm doubting that now. She's getting more noted outside of Japan, so there's no need. It would sell either way, cause generic Fairies(in this example) wouldn't be any different from the PDP characters overall design-wise. It's still cutesy.

 

[N. Onymous]

I dunno, I think Japan would make a PdP game with the fairies, and this time I don’t think they’d bother to erase them for localization.

1. Because it’d be a mobile game and those are more liberal with marketing an anime/cutesy aesthetic.

2. Because it’d likely be a budget title and localization costs money.

Sega did go to the effort of reskinning that one Puyo Puyo game on iOS as Angry Food Friends or whatever its name was, so I wouldn't be so sure. Hopefully Nintendo won't stoop to that level. I mean, they can't hate Lip and the others that much.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sega did go to the effort of reskinning that one Puyo Puyo game on iOS as Angry Food Friends or whatever its name was, so I wouldn't be so sure. Hopefully Nintendo won't stoop to that level. I mean, they can't hate Lip and the others that much.

Oh wow I didn’t know that.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Looks like we're getting a new Dr. Mario game for Android devices. Took them this long to finally put a puzzle game on mobile devices, huh.

Though I wonder, you think this might speak good news for Panel de Pon?

I really don't like Dr. Mario games. They are not fun, but tedious to me. Panel De Pon is just super fun, the system is fun, easy and challenging at the same time. Good for DocM fans tho.

 

[Luigifan18]

Sega did go to the effort of reskinning that one Puyo Puyo game on iOS as Angry Food Friends or whatever its name was, so I wouldn't be so sure. Hopefully Nintendo won't stoop to that level. I mean, they can't hate Lip and the others that much.

I thought Angry Food Friends was a half-assed knockoff.

 

[N. Onymous]

I thought Angry Food Friends was a half-***** knockoff.

Nope, it is a reskin of a Japanese Puyo Puyo game for the Western market. I don't know why Sega thought sentient food drawn in a Japanese-y art style would hold more appeal to international players than silly cartoon characters drawn in a Japanese-y art style, but they did. Let's just hope Nintendo doesn't follow that path.

 

[ChronoBound]

These were the new Nintendo character Mii costumes added to Ultimate:
- Skull Kid
- Splatoon 2 Inklings (Boy and Girl)
- Spring Man
- Ribbon Girl
- Chibi Robo
- Vince
- Isaac
- Saki
- Lip
- Ray MKIII
- Nia
- Rex

Lip's circumstances for being even added as a Mii costume are more impressive if we compare her to the credentials of all the other new Mii costumes added to Ultimate.

Skull Kid: One of the most wanted Zelda newcomers, and could very well be the most wanted one. Majora's Mask also had a major re-release after Smash 4's release.

Splatoon 2 Inklings: Splatoon 2 was among the biggest software releases for the Switch

Spring Man: One of the two mascots for a major new IP launched on the Switch. ARMS was an example given by Sakurai of a game released too late to be made part of the project plan.

Ribbon Girl: One of the two mascots for a major new IP launched on the Switch. ARMS was an example given by Sakurai of a game that was released too late to be made part of the project plan.

Chibi Robo: Long running series that received a new installment after Smash 4 (Zip Lash).

Vince: Art Academy already had games on the DS and 3DS, and had received another installment on the Wii U after Smash 4's release.

Isaac: Isaac likely did very well on the ballot, probably among the Top 10 best characters among the Western fanbase especially if you took out any veterans.

Saki: An Assist Trophy in both Brawl and Smash 4 (though oddly not included as one in Ultimate). Saki probably did well enough on the ballot.

Rex: The main protagonist of one of the biggest RPGs released for the Switch, and considered a frontrunner to being a newcomer (along with the ARMS characters, Sakurai said he missed the project plan cutoff, so a Mii costume was his consolation prize).

Nia: A very popular character from Xenoblade 2 (look at how Dunban got a Mii costume).

As can be seen, the purpose of Mii costumes were pretty much a consolation prize. Spring Man/Ribbon Girl and Rex are characters that would have made the roster had the game been developed at a later time, The others (Chibi Robo, Vince, Isaac, and Saki) were characters that were the main icons for minor Nintendo franchises that either had new installments for their series released after Smash 4 (Chibi Robo and Vince) or likely did well on the ballot (Isaac and Saki). Again these seem to be consolation prizes (Isaac also regained his Assist Trophy spot, and Vince was made into an Assist Trophy as well). Nia was simply a popular side character in a major recently released RPG. Skull Kid might have been the most wanted Zelda newcomer and Majora's Mask 3D was a notable title release after Smash 4's release.

The two odds ones out are Ray MKIII and Lip. Custom Robo has not received a game since 2006, and Ray was completely absent from Smash 4 (though he did have an Assist Trophy role in Brawl). Panel de Pon's only sign of life during the 2010's was being included as a DLC minigame for Animal Crossing New Leaf (Animal Crossing Puzzle League/Panel de Pon), and Lip did get a full costume that was unlockable through that minigame. Both Custom Robo and Panel de Pon are minor Nintendo franchises with cult followings (Panel de Pon was even included on the Super Famicom Mini) and Custom Robo V2 is among the less than 25 games made as part of the Wii/Wii U's Virtual Console Nintendo 64 library.

Smash Bros. has historically been a celebration of Nintendo as a whole, and over half of Smash 4's newcomers were entirely new series to the franchise (both Nintendo and third-party). The only four series to receive newcomers in Smash 4 were Super Mario, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus. Sakurai confirmed the ballot picks for newcomers were Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon. Ridley and K. Rool being the villains for two of Nintendo's long running franchises, and the most wanted newcomers for over 10 years, and Castlevania in general being among the most well regarded classic gaming franchises ever. Inkling and Isabelle were both simply the two biggest Nintendo characters created during the 2010's, and appealed massively to casual Nintendo fans (notice how both of those characters are also playable in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe?).

Simply put, the few newcomers added to Ultimate were the best of the best.

However, Sakurai and his team still felt that many of Nintendo's minor franchises still deserved further recognition in Smash Bros. even though many of them had been in hiatus for a long time (at least eight years), with only Chibi Robo and Art Academy being the only two ones that received new installments on the 3DS and/or Wii U. Even if Ultimate had eight more non-echo newcomer slots for the base roster, it is likely that none of the minor series heroes would have been added to the roster (with the possible exception of Isaac, who might have done well enough on the ballot).

Simply put, even though many of these series have been on hiatus for over eight years, they were still viewed as being critical enough to be given notable consolation prizes. The Mii costume slot is not something to be taken lightly. It was the same thing that was given to characters that Sakurai has publicly acknowledged would have been on the roster had the game been developed later (Rex and ARMS characters).

Lip did really well for herself to make it in as a Mii costume, and something I honestly was not expecting (I thought the best she could hope for was Assist Trophy status).

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Looks like we're getting a new Dr. Mario game for Android devices. Took them this long to finally put a puzzle game on mobile devices, huh.

Though I wonder, you think this might speak good news for Panel de Pon?

This is a light of hope for the future of the Panel de Pon series. As I have said before, aside from a digital release on the Switch, another possible avenue for the future of Panel de Pon was mobile devices, especially considering how popular puzzle games are for them. I believe that if Dr. Mario World does very well, we will soon see Panel de Pon made for mobile devices. I am also fairly optimistic that Lip will have some sort of appearance in it even if the game is not fairy themed (meaning Lip has a good chance of showing up, but the game might not be fairy themed). The precedence for this is Lip's cameo in Panel de Pon DS/Planet Puzzle League as well as the unlockable Lip outfit through playing Animal Crossing Puzzle League. With Lip having a full costume in Ultimate as well, I do think Lip will appear in a new Panel de Pon that gets made in some form, regardless of what theme is chosen to represent the series.

Another thought I had in regards to Lip's future prospects is that I think she could plausibly be made into a semi-clone (think Isabelle) or echo fighter of Arle, if she was a newcomer in the next game. Arle has a decently sized amount of requests among the Japanese portion to the Smash Bros. fanbase, and Puyo Puyo has a very integral legacy to the puzzle genre (importance to gaming as a whole is something that Sakurai does look at for third-party characters). Panel de Pon does have similar enough gameplay to Puyo Puyo, that it is conceivable that Lip could be made into semi-clone or echo of Arle.

Back to the original topic,, alongside Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus, the Belmonts, and Chrom, Lip's inclusion as a Mii costume is another miracle story of inclusion for Ultimate in my opinion. There was little going in Lio's favor to even gain this sort of consolation prize, and in reality she really punched above her weight to get it. Lip was even given a profile icon and a role in the adventure mode (something very few other characters had). Personally, I am quite happy with how the minor Nintendo franchises were given the consolation prizes of Mii costumes.

I have said a lot over the course of this topic, and tried to provide a sound analysis and encouragement to fans of Panel de Pon. In the end, Ultimate actually gave a pretty happy ending for fans of Lip. If she is going to promote further in the Smash Bros. series, either her own series needs to return to prominence and/or she needs a prominent role in her own series again. There is no other way around it. A small cadre of dedicated fans is not enough for a character like her. Already it can be seen through the Mii costume, that Sakurai and his team do hold Panel de Pon in high enough regard to see it as worthy of a consolation prize. If a possible Panel de Pon developed for mobile devices ends up becoming very popular, Lip could very well be up for strong consideration for the roster for the next title.

Hopefully the next decade will offer more exposure and opportunity to Panel de Pon than the 2010's did. Who knows? There might possibly even be a Panel de Pon announcement for 2019. It is still strange to think the only new thing done with Panel de Pon during the 2010's, was a DLC minigame for Animal Crossing New Leaf.

Lip now at long last has a face attached to her eponymous flower baton after 17 years. The Mii Fighter costume is a big step forward for the character, and a reassurance to fans of Lip and/or Panel de Pon, that the series and its "mascot" are still noteworthy. Lip was placed on the same footing as the likes of Rex, Spring Man, and Isaac. That is definitely something Lip fans should smile about.

 

[GoodGrief741]

These were the new Nintendo character Mii costumes added to Ultimate:
- Skull Kid
- Splatoon 2 Inklings (Boy and Girl)
- Spring Man
- Ribbon Girl
- Chibi Robo
- Vince
- Isaac
- Saki
- Lip
- Ray MKIII
- Nia
- Rex

Lip's circumstances for being even added as a Mii costume are more impressive if we compare her to the credentials of all the other new Mii costumes added to Ultimate.

Skull Kid: One of the most wanted Zelda newcomers, and could very well be the most wanted one. Majora's Mask also had a major re-release after Smash 4's release.

Splatoon 2 Inklings: Splatoon 2 was among the biggest software releases for the Switch

Spring Man: One of the two mascots for a major new IP launched on the Switch. ARMS was an example given by Sakurai of a game too new to be made part of the project plan.

Ribbon Girl: One of the two mascots for a major new IP launched on the Switch. ARMS was an example given by Sakurai of a game too new to be made part of the project plan.

Chibi Robo: Long running series that received a new installment after Smash 4 (Zip Lash).

Vince: Art Academy already had games on the DS and 3DS, and had received another installment on the Wii U after Smash 4's release.

Isaac: Isaac likely did very well on the ballot, probably among the Top 10 best characters especially if you took out any veterans.

Saki: An Assist Trophy in both Brawl and Smash 4 (though oddly not included as one in Ultimate). Saki probably did well enough on the ballot.

Rex: The main protagonist of one of the biggest RPG released for the Switch, and considered a frontrunner to being a newcomer (along with the ARMS characters, Sakurai said he missed the project plan cutoff, so a Mii costume was his consolation prize).

Nia: A very popular character from Xenoblade 2 (look at how Dunban got a Mii costume).

As can be seen, the purpose of Mii costumes were pretty much a consolation prize. Spring Man/Ribbon Girl and Rex are characters that would have made the roster had the game been developed at a later time, The others (Chibi Robo, Vince, Isaac, and Saki) were characters that were the main icons for minor Nintendo franchises that either had new installments for their series released after Smash 4 (Chibi Robo and Vince) or likely did well on the ballot (Isaac and Saki). Again these seem to be consolation prizes (Isaac also regained his Assist Trophy spot, and Vince was made into an Assist Trophy as well). Nia was simply a popular side character in a major recently released RPG, and Skull Kid probably did well on the ballot. Skull Kid might have been the most wanted Zelda newcomer and Majora's Mask 3D was a notable title release after Smash 4's release.

The two odds ones out are Ray MKIII and Lip. Custom Robo has not received a game since 2006, and Ray was completely absent from Smash 4 (though he did have an Assist Trophy role in Brawl). Panel de Pon's only sign of life during the 2010's was being included as a DLC minigame for Animal Crossing New Leaf (Animal Crossing Puzzle League/Panel de Pon), and Lip did get a full costume that was unlockable through that minigame. Both Custom Robo and Panel de Pon were minor Nintendo franchises with cult followings (Panel de Pon was even included on the Super Famicom Mini) and Custom Robo V2 is among the less than 25 games made as part of the Wii/Wii U's Virtual Console Nintendo 64 library.

Smash Bros. has historically been a celebration of Nintendo as a whole, and over half of Smash 4's newcomers was entirely new series to the franchise (both Nintendo and third-party). The only four series to receive newcomers in Smash 4 were Super Mario, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus. Sakurai confirmed the ballot picks for newcomers were Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon. Ridley and K. Rool being the villains for two of Nintendo's long running franchises, and the most wanted newcomers for over 10 years, and Castlevania in general being among the most well regarded classic gaming franchises ever. Inkling and Isabelle were both simply the two biggest Nintendo characters created during the 2010's, and appealed massively to casual Nintendo fans (notice how both of those characters are also playable in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe?).

Simply put, the few newcomers added to Ultimate were the best of the best.

However, Sakurai and his team still felt that many of Nintendo's minor franchises still deserved further recognition in Smash Bros. even though many of them had been in hiatus for a long time (at least eight years), with only Chibi Robo and Art Academy being the only two ones that received new installments on the 3DS and/or Wii U. Even if Ultimate had eight more non-echo newcomer slots for the base roster, it is likely that none of the minor series heroes would have been added to the roster (with the possible exception of Isaac, who might have done well enough on the ballot).

Simply put, even though many of these series have been on hiatus for over eight years, they were still viewed as being critical enough to be given notable consolation prizes. The Mii costume slot is not something to be taken lightly. It was the same thing that was given to characters that Sakurai has publically acknowledged would have been on the roster had the game been developed later (Rex and ARMS characters).

Lip



This is a light of hope for the future of the Panel de Pon series. As I have said before, I said aside from a digital release on the Switch, another possible avenue for the future of Panel de Pon was mobile, especially considering how popular puzzle games are. I believe that if Dr. Mario World does very well, we will soon see Panel de Pon made for mobile devices. I am also fairly optimistic that Lip will have some sort of appearance in it even if the game is not fairy themed (meaning Lip has a good chance of showing up, but the game might not be fairy themed). The precedence for this is Lip's cameo in Panel de Pon DS/Planet Puzzle League as well as the unlockable Lip outfit through playing Animal Crossing Puzzle League. With Lip having a full costume in Ultimate as well, I do think Lip will appear in a new Panel de Pon that gets made in some form, regardless of what theme is chosen to represent the series.

Another thought I had in regards to Lip's future prospects is that I think she could plausibly be made into a semi-clone (think Isabelle) or echo fighter of Arle, if she was a guest fighter in the next game. Arle has a decently sized amount of requests among the Japanese portion to the Smash Bros. fanbase, and Puyo Puyo has a very integral legacy to the puzzle genre (importance to gaming as a whole is something that Sakurai does look at for third-party characters). Panel de Pon does have similar enough gameplay to Puyo Puyo, that it is conceivable that Lip could be made into semi-clone or echo of Arle.

Back to the original topic,, alongside Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus, the Belmonts, and Chrom, Lip's inclusion as a Mii costume is another miracle story of inclusion for Ultimate in my opinion. There was little going in Lio's favor to even gain this sort of consolation prize, and in reality she really punched above her weight to get it. Lip was even given a profile icon and a role in the adventure mode (something very few other characters had). Personally, I am quite happy with how the minor Nintendo franchises were given the consolation prizes of Mii costumes.

I have said a lot over the course of this topic, and tried to provide a sound analysis and encouragement to fans of Panel de Pon. However, in the end, Ultimate actually gave a pretty happy ending for fans of Lip. If she is going to promote further in the series, either her own series needs to return to prominence and/or she needs a prominent role in her own series again. There is no other way around it. A small cadre of dedicated fans is not enough for a character like her. Already it can be seen through the Mii costume, that Sakurai and his team do hold Panel de Pon in high enough regard to see it as worthy of a consolation prize. If a possible Panel de Pon developed for mobile devices ends up becoming very popular, Lip could very well be up for strong consideration for the roster for the next title.

Hopefully the next decade will offer more exposure and opportunity to Panel de Pon than the 2010's did. Who knows? There might possible even be a Panel de Pon announcement for 2019. It is still weird to think the only new thing done with Panel de Pon during the 2010's, was a DLC minigame for Animal Crossing New Leaf.

Lip now at long last has a face attached to her eponymous flower baton after 17 years. The Mii Fighter costume is a big step forward for the character, and a reassurance to fans of Lip and/or Panel de Pon, that the series and its "mascot" are still noteworthy. Lip was placed on the same footing as the likes of Rex, Spring Man, and Isaac. That is definitely something Lip fans should smile about.

I agree with most of this, but Ultimate is not a happy ending, it’s only the beginning.

Also Arle clone whatchu talkin bout

 

[StarDustStorm]

Another thought I had in regards to Lip's future prospects is that I think she could plausibly be made into a semi-clone (think Isabelle) or echo fighter of Arle, if she was a guest fighter in the next game. Arle has a decently sized amount of requests among the Japanese portion to the Smash Bros. fanbase, and Puyo Puyo has a very integral legacy to the puzzle genre (importance to gaming as a whole is something that Sakurai does look at for third-party characters). Panel de Pon does have similar enough gameplay to Puyo Puyo, that it is conceivable that Lip could be made into semi-clone or echo of Arle.

I agree with most of this, but Ultimate is not a happy ending, it’s only the beginning.

Also Arle clone whatchu talkin bout

One game is about creating your chains (Panel), while the other is about setting up your chains which can sometimes be timed in addition to many different ways the objects can be cleared. (Puyo) Similarities include the Garbage of the respective games interfere with the opponents' during gameplay. The Puyo Garbage being more spread out while the Garbage in Panel de Pon is combined and usually together the Garbage demolish rules are slightly different in that Panel de Pon's Garbage are cleared in a whole row (and its non-chained Garbage can be destroyed very easily) while Puyo only clears the Garbage right next to them.

That's pretty much why her similarities may be like Isabelle but I think to an extent it might be more like Wolf because Lip uses a different weapon which already forces her personality to be different the normals would have to be changed because of this.

The gameplay of Puzzle games wouldn't be the only source they can take from since: the Puyo series did have an RPG that Arle was in while Lip would have to use references of some Magical Girl related sources especially since she has a wand, and also incorporate the established Flower effect into her moveset. Both of these references to pull from can branch off those differences, though the highest chance of being the most similar is definitely the special moves. Normally clones reuse animation from their base character and the weapon is the first issue that would come up for Lip which doesn't allow them to be directly ported to her as Arle does not hold a wand on a regular basis.

 

[Ridrool64]

Speaking of Puyo Puyo, Quest is the name of the mobile game that SEGA tried to pass off as Cranky Food Friends. Puyo Puyo!! Quest is a massive money maker, and while I don’t think Panel de Pon has enough of a roster for something similar, maybe a mobile release could be what the series needs to take off in the west. Assuming, of course, it isn’t Yoshi’s Puzzle League again.

 

[N. Onymous]

ChronoBound I get where you're coming from, I honestly do, but your posts are always so melancholy. Like you've given up on Lip. What we've got is nice, but we shouldn't settle for it. This is the time to be reinvigorated and start pushing even harder. We'll get more members, and we'll get a voice loud enough to be heard by Nintendo, and we'll have the fairies again.

Speaking of Puyo Puyo, Quest is the name of the mobile game that SEGA tried to pass off as Cranky Food Friends. Puyo Puyo!! Quest is a massive money maker, and while I don’t think Panel de Pon has enough of a roster for something similar, maybe a mobile release could be what the series needs to take off in the west. Assuming, of course, it isn’t Yoshi’s Puzzle League again.

There's one key difference between them trying to make it a Yoshi game now, and them trying to make it a Yoshi game back then. These days, if they decide to reskin it for the west, people will know, and more importantly, people will be angry. Why lose customers like that?

 

[ChronoBound]

ChronoBound I get where you're coming from, I honestly do, but your posts are always so melancholy. Like you've given up on Lip. What we've got is nice, but we shouldn't settle for it. This is the time to be reinvigorated and start pushing even harder. We'll get more members, and we'll get a voice loud enough to be heard by Nintendo, and we'll have the fairies again.

How was my post melancholy? I basically said Lip did much better than I expected her to do for Ultimate. I also said her future lies with the return of her series. I was giving a honest appraisal of her circumstances. Being "loud" alone is not going to work for Lip fans when there are several fanbases that have the same tactic (Isaac, Waluigi, Geno, Ashley) and Lip will certainly not have the numbers to get up to their league.

Punch-Out is the key to look at. Little Mac had a dedicated of cadre of followers since Smash 64 and did end up becoming among the Top 10 most wanted newcomers for Smash 4. There was only a single game in the series where the main protagonist was definitely Little Mac (Punch-Out NES), whereas the two arcade games and SNES game had a nameless boxer as the protagonist (a green-haired boxer for the arcade titles and a blonde boxer for SNES). It is a bit analogous to the Panel de Pon situation of cycling protagonists/themes. However, the problem with Little Mac was that most of his support was Western. Punch-Out was an extremely long running franchise that debuted all the way back in 1984 (before nearly every Nintendo franchise with the exception of Mario, Donkey Kong, and Game & Watch), much like how Panel de Pon is Nintendo's second historical puzzle franchise (the other being Dr. Mario).

Punch-Out receiving a new title for the Wii (that starred Little Mac) that ending up selling very well and being very critically acclaimed was the magic combination that allowed Little Mac, a character that was derided as "being too Western" and "all he can do is punch" to be able to get a slot on Smash 4's roster.

This is exactly what Lip needs. A new installment starring her that does very well, or just a new Panel de Pon in general. Panel de Pon at this point (aside from the Famicom/Advance Wars series) is Nintendo's longest running franchise that is not represented through either a playable character or stage. However, the fact is that the series received its last full stand alone title all the way back in 2007, and the only activity the series had in the 2010's was a DLC minigame for Animal Crossing New Leaf.

However, despite this Lip was still given a full Mii costume, a profile icon (the only series aside from Panel de Pon to be given a profile icon that was not an Assist Trophy was Rhythm Heaven and Shantae), and even a role in World of Light (you need her spirit to reach Olimar). That is very good treatment for a character whom most of her fans are Japanese and not even big in size.

Focusing on growing Lip's fanbase would be good, but the real edge for Lip is getting Panel de Pon back to life. Personally, I want to see a full proper Panel de Pon. The soundtrack for Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack was among the most magical for the SNES. Tetris Attack was a magical experience for me back when I first played it during the 1990's (even though I played poorly) due to the game's soundtrack alone.

I am really surprised Nintendo never capitalized on a fully online home console iteration of Panel de Pon, especially when they made it such a big point for their franchises during the late 2000's.

I personally would like to see another console iteration in the manner of the original SNES/SFC installment, but I think mobile might represent the best opportunity for the franchise, and especially mass exposure for Panel de Pon. This is a franchise that does not need to invest itself in cutting edge graphics or stage/level design, so its pretty peculiar why the franchise was never fully revisited after 2007.

Even if there were another 20 slots for Ultimate, I do not think Lip would be among them. Lip is going to need the resurrection of her own home franchise if she is to ever make it onto the roster. Panel de Pon's return is long overdue and there is little reason for it not coming back. Hopefully, it will return within the coming years.

 

[N. Onymous]

Panel de Pon's return is long overdue and there is little reason for it not coming back. Hopefully, it will return within the coming years.

With the success of the Switch and Dr. Mario turning up on mobile phones, the odds are looking better and better all the time...still, there's no guarantee Lip and friends will be a part of it. Remember, this is a series with a chronic identity crisis, thanks to toxic 1990s masculinity, and a worrying percentage of Panel de Pon/Puzzle League players view the skin as interchangeable, something that can be freely changed out and swapped in at will without removing a gigantic part of the series' identity and charm. (Good luck saying that about Puyo Puyo, by the way.) Speaking only for myself, I'd rather have no Panel de Pon at all than another cheesy reskin.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Do you guys remember what you wrote when you written for what reason you wanted Lip when you voted for her during the Smash Ballot? Maybe Sakurai might put her in the roster as a retro rep in Smash 6 if he knows the importance of Panel De Panel to a lot of the fans.

I really don't like Dr. Mario games. They are not fun, but tedious to me. Panel De Pon is just super fun, the system is fun, easy and challenging at the same time. Good for DocM fans tho.

''♪♪I am Dr. Mario and I'll save you lives!♪♪'' Not.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Do you guys remember what you wrote when you written for what reason you wanted Lip when you voted for her during the Smash Ballot? Maybe Sakurai might put her in the roster as a retro rep in Smash 6 if he knows the importance of Panel De Panel to a lot of the fans.

Not directly, but I believe I've mentioned that I love Panel De Pon for it's gameplay, and believe the series could benefit from exposion, and encourage a new game, because the gameplay is impressive, and Lip itself would have a great possible moveset which is not utulized in the game yet, or I just said, I like turtles Lip.

 

[ChronoBound]

Remember, this is a series with a chronic identity crisis, thanks to toxic 1990s masculinity,

This is absolutely foolish. Tell me what exactly is "toxicly masculine" about Yoshi and his colorful friends. The fact is that maybe they felt that the fairy theme would alienate international audiences (and it probably would have), so they went for something gender neutral, like Yoshi (who just had a big hit on the SNES/SFC). Saying stuff like that makes a lot of people not take things seriously. Dixie Kong headlined perhaps the last big (in terms of sales) fully original SNES game (DKC3) the same year, and she is a very girly and feminine character. Even the Game Boy iteration of Panel de Pon still used the Yoshi theme in Japan, so perhaps even Nintendo themselves saw the fairies as possibly holding the series's mass appeal back then.

till, there's no guarantee Lip and friends will be a part of it.

You are right there is no guarantee, but she will probably have some sort of appearance in it, considering that Panel de Pon DS/Planet Puzzle League did give Lip a cameo, and that even the DLC minigame for Animal Crossing had a Lip outfit as a reward. That is why the Mii outfit in Ultimate is such good news for fans of the character. It shows that Nintendo (or at the very least Sakurai and his team) consider her to be a part of the identity to Panel de Pon even though she basically only had a major role in two games to the series (I am counting Furil as an extension of Lip).

a worrying percentage of Panel de Pon/Puzzle League players view the skin as interchangeable, something that can be freely changed out and swapped in at will without removing a gigantic part of the series' identity and charm.

That is because a large portion of Panel de Pon fans grew up with games in the series without Lip and the fairies. The biggest of which were Tetris Attack and Pokemon Puzzle League. So many people have nostalgia and their first exposure to the series with themes based off of Yoshi's Island and Pokemon. Only two games in the series had them, both of which were only in Japan. Nintendo Puzzle Collection could have been the title that opened up Western audiences to Lip and friends, but it never made it over for whatever reason.

Nintendo Puzzle Collection never being released internationally was extremely bizarre in my opinion especially when I remember all sorts of previews for the game. Here is a preview that was written for a 100+ page booklet detailing all of Nintendo's upcoming software at the time (2003 onward).

Nintendo Puzzle Collection:

Dr. Mario takes center stage as he stamps out a never-ending tide of multi-colored germs - it's the perfect prescription for four player fun! The action's more contagious with frantic-paced puzzlers Yoshi's Cookie and Panel de Pon, the game that inspired Pokemon Puzzle League. You can even plug in your Game Boy Advance and use it as a controller or transfer your favorite game to it and play it on the go!

There is even a screenshot in the booklet of Teana (or rather her Panel de Pon 2 equivalent) in the score attack mode, so it seems like they were going to keep the fairies in the localization.

However, you should not attack fans of the series who are unaware of or do not care for the fairies. They truly love the series too, and the only way to experience them is by either downloading a ROM of Panel de Pon (and what would be the point when Tetris Attack exists and is fully in English), or the ROM for Nintendo Puzzle Collection (which is far more complicated).

An idea I had for a possible future Panel de Pon is them using all sorts of Nintendo universes for a Super Smash Puzzle League (or Smash Bros. Panel de Pon). Incorporate all of the big Nintendo franchises and Lip herself in it. You would get all the traditional Nintendo core audience, and Lip could possibly be the starting protagonist in the story mode. That would make Lip seem like a Nintendo All-Star too.

That is a possibility to which the game could prove to be a big boon for Lip, while not having the fairy theme.

However, please understand the diversity to the Panel de Pon fanbase. There are many who have fond memories of the series with no attachment at all to Lip and friends (since they never played the games featuring them), but it does not make them any less fans of the franchise. Instead, you should try to appeal to them and say how the series is integral to Nintendo as a whole, especially to their puzzle game heritage (the only other long running puzzle franchise left for Nintendo aside from Dr. Mario).

At the end of the day, the true heart and soul to the series is its addictive gameplay (and for me personally, its music as well). Lip, herself, could serve as the glue to give the series an identity as a whole, and be its mascot even if the particular game does not use fairies as its primary motif (that is what they should have done for the "generic" installments in my opinion). Like for Planet Puzzle League, they could have had a sci-fi themed Lip hosting the game, explaining all of its modes and tutorial (a bit like Fire Emblem's Anna).

Again, this shows the importance of Lip's Mii costume. It is the first major exposure that most Nintendo fans outside Japan (and many within Japan) will have to the character. Panel de Pon is a very curious series in general, but even though Lip has only been the hero of two titles out of eight-ten titles (it depends on whether you count Puzzle League Express and Animal Crossing Puzzle League as their own separate installments), she is still seen as an icon for the series. Hopefully, when the next Panel de Pon installment is being developed she will not be forgotten, and actually incorporated in a major way.

 

[N. Onymous]

This is absolutely foolish. Tell me what exactly is "toxicly masculine" about Yoshi and his colorful friends. The fact is that maybe they felt that the fairy theme would alienate international audiences (and it probably would have), so they went for something gender neutral, like Yoshi (who just had a big hit on the SNES/SFC). Saying stuff like that makes a lot of people not take things seriously. Dixie Kong headlined perhaps the last big (in terms of sales) fully original SNES game (DKC3) the same year, and she is a very girly and feminine character. Even the Game Boy iteration of Panel de Pon still used the Yoshi theme in Japan, so perhaps even Nintendo themselves saw the fairies as possibly holding the series's mass appeal back then.

Toxic masculinity is responsible for the "no boy is going to want to play a girl game!" mentality that gave us Tetris Attack in the first place. If you were a boy back then and you openly enjoyed girls' cartoons (or really almost any cartoon whose main cast was more than 50% female), then you were "gay", which was apparently a very bad thing.

The Dixie Kong example kind of falls flat because, if you'll remember from earlier in the thread, American advertisements for Donkey Kong Country 3 advertised Kiddy Kong as the star, not Dixie. Because he was a boy, and video games were boys' toys back then, so if anyone knew you were playing a game that had a traditionally feminine protagonist you were "gay". Even if it was from a franchise that had won several awards and was well-respected for having incredible graphics and even better gameplay.

Do you guys remember what you wrote when you written for what reason you wanted Lip when you voted for her during the Smash Ballot? Maybe Sakurai might put her in the roster as a retro rep in Smash 6 if he knows the importance of Panel De Panel to a lot of the fans.

I can't even remember, but it was something about loving the gameplay, loving the character designs of Panel de Pon (especially Lip), emphasizing the potential for the unique and creative moveset she could bring to the table, pointing out that she's another addition to the growing roster of female fighters... I hope it didn't all fall on deaf ears.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Not directly, but I believe I've mentioned that I love Panel De Pon for it's gameplay, and believe the series could benefit from exposion, and encourage a new game, because the gameplay is impressive, and Lip itself would have a great possible moveset which is not utulized in the game yet, or I just said, I like turtles Lip.

I can't even remember, but it was something about loving the gameplay, loving the character designs of Panel de Pon (especially Lip), emphasizing the potential for the unique and creative moveset she could bring to the table, pointing out that she's another addition to the growing roster of female fighters... I hope it didn't all fall on deaf ears.

I remember what I written for when I voted for him in the Smash Ballot. I wrote ''He would have a very unique moveset that would borrow from his games and we need more villains and heavyweights in the roster. DK needs his villain.'' I pointed out important reasons.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I remember what I written for when I voted for him in the Smash Ballot. I wrote ''He would have very unique moveset that would borrow from his games and we need more villains and heavyweights in the roster. DK needs his villain.'' I pointed out important reasons.

Funny, K. Rool & Lip were my 2 most wanted as well.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Funny, K. Rool & Lip were my 2 most wanted as well.

I am supportive of Lip, but she isn't in my top 10. The reason I support Lip is because she is part of Gunpei Yokoi's legacy and her game Panel De Pon was his last piece of work before his death. If you don't know who he is, he is the creator of the original Game Boy.

 

[lordvaati]

I am supportive of Lip, but she isn't in my top 10. The reason I support Lip is because she is part of Gunpei Yokoi's legacy and her game Panel De Panel was his last piece of work before his death. If you don't know who he is, he is the creator of the original Game Boy.

And Metroid, and Kid Icarus, and the characters of Wario and Daisy.
And I agree.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I am supportive of Lip, but she isn't in my top 10. The reason I support Lip is because she is part of Gunpei Yokoi's legacy and her game Panel De Panel was his last piece of work before his death. If you don't know who he is, he is the creator of the original Game Boy.

That's fair enough, and yes, I know very well who Gunpei is.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Toxic masculinity is responsible for the "no boy is going to want to play a girl game!" mentality that gave us Tetris Attack in the first place.

But to be honest, they were completely right. I would not have given Panel de Pon a second glance if it had released with Sailor Moon-esque anime girl characters, I was not interested in that kind of aesthetic and only grew a tolerance for them late into my teenage years. It was only after I became an adult that I developed a soft spot for such things.

You can't really hold 90s marketing teams accountable for not catering to tastes that are commonplace today. They were just doing their job, and they made a call in good judgment. I don't think it's "toxic masculinity" at all to understand the tastes of the time period. I know plenty of people, myself included, who would not have given the game the time of day around here if it was released with girl characters. It is only now, years after the fact, that we can say that there is a demand for a game like PDP in the west. But back then if it had released with Lip and her friends I guarantee it would be substantially more niche than it is. Which may or may not have been a bad thing, as Earthbound had found its cult audience long after the fact, but still, its initial reception would've been lukewarm at best.

 

[lordvaati]

Unfortunately true. It wasn't until Tomb Raider and Resident Evil were released that tastes towards games with female protagonists started changing in the West.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Unfortunately true. It wasn't until Tomb Raider and Resident Evil were released that tastes towards games with female protagonists started changing in the West.

And Dino Crisis!

Why does everyone forget Dino Crisis...

 

[N. Onymous]

All true, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. And I don't. I really don't.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am supportive of Lip, but she isn't in my top 10. The reason I support Lip is because she is part of Gunpei Yokoi's legacy and her game Panel De Pon was his last piece of work before his death. If you don't know who he is, he is the creator of the original Game Boy.

Gunpei Yokoi was simply the producer of Panel de Pon. He was a producer of several other Nintendo titles after Panel de Pon's release such as Virtual Boy Wario Land, Kirby's Block Ball, 3D Tetris, Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, and Tetris Attack.

Yokoi's legacy to gaming and Nintendo is not such much characters and gaming concepts (like the case with Miyamoto) but rather how to approach technology and gaming, and him and his team's design input for controllers (most notably the D-Pad) and as you mentioned the Game Boy (the template from which most future portable gaming consoles were based on). He also created or helped create ROB (he was a primarily a toy designer before Nintendo's transition to video games). He also came up with the concept of Game & Watch.

On the former I mentioned in regards to his contributions, Yokoi had the philosophy of "lateral thinking with withered technlogy". His idea was the gaming did not need to have cutting edge technlogy to great, but rather they needed to be above all else, fun. Withered technology in this instance refers to tech that is "mature", which means that is both cheap and/or well understood. Yokoi first put these beliefs to practice with the Game & Watch line of handhelds. Due to fierce competition between Casio and Sharp, there was a glut of LCD screens and semiconductors on the market (as well as the price for them going sharply down). Yokoi utilized "lateral thinking" to incorporate this cheap technology in an unique and fun way. The Game & Watch line of handhelds had gaming experiences similar to what you could have found on the Atari 2600 (many of them were score attack titles with a single screen of action).

This philosophy continued with the Game Boy. Both the Atari Lynx and Sega Game Gear had far better specs than the original Game Boy did. However, Yokoi again opted for technology that was cheap and easy to develop for. A much longer battery life proved to be absolutely integral for handheld viability, something that seems obvious to us today, yet went against the conventional wisdom of gaming (that better specs would likely mean strong demand for your product). His influenced continued with the Nintendo line of handhelds even with the Nintendo DS. When Nintendo similarly incorporated the "lateral thinking with withered technology" approach with the Nintendo Wii, they had their single most successful home console (in terms of units sold) of any home console to date. His philosophy has made a massive impact on Nintendo.

Gunpei Yokoi was the producer of many of Nintendo's games. The arcade Donkey Kong trilogy, the first three Metroid titles, the first four Fire Emblem games, Balloon Fight, Duck Hunt, Kid Icarus, Dr. Mario, and Famicom Detective Club Part 1 and 2 are just some of the games he was a producer for.

Gunpei Yokoi's is a legendary designer for gaming that went beyond designing games themselves. His ideas for how to control games (the D-pad) and how cheap technology can be utilized in novel ways for gaming ("lateral thinking with withered technology") are among the most important contributions to gaming as a whole in my opinion.

And Metroid, and Kid Icarus, and the characters of Wario and Daisy.
And I agree.

Yokoi did not create Metroid and Kid Icarus, he was only the producer. He did not create Wario and Daisy. I think the only characters on the roster he did create are Mr. Game & Watch (since he came up with the concept of Game & Watches), and ROB (Yokoi's forte was being a toy designer).

However, as mentioned above, his contributions to gaming go far beyond characters.

Unfortunately true. It wasn't until Tomb Raider and Resident Evil were released that tastes towards games with female protagonists started changing in the West.

Donkey Kong Country 2 easily predates Tomb Raider and Resident Evil, and Dixie Kong was a co-star in that title (just like Jill Valentine was a co-protagonist in the first Resident Evil). Heck, in Japan, the title for Donkey Kong Country 2 is Super Donkey Kong 2: Dixie and Diddy.

She was also one of the two protagonists for Donkey Kong Country 3 (and even got top billing in the game's subtitle, Dixie's Double Trouble).

Dixie Kong had TWO major games under her belt before Lara Craft and Jill Valentine. Heck, Dixie Kong arguably had four if you count Donkey Kong Land 2 and Donkey Kong Land 3 as well (Land 3 was released in 1997). Both DKC2 and DKC3 were among the Top 10 best selling software of all time for the SNES/SFC.

Dixie Kong might very well have been on track to be a "female Mario" (a character that is appealing across demographics despite their unconventional design), but she inexplicably was absent from Diddy Kong Racing and Donkey Kong 64, which made her practically non-existent for those who only started gaming with a Nintendo 64.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Gunpei Yokoi was simply the producer of Panel de Pon. He was a producer of several other Nintendo titles after Panel de Pon's release such as Virtual Boy Wario Land, Kirby's Block Ball, 3D Tetris, Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War, and Tetris Attack.

Yokoi's legacy to gaming and Nintendo is not such much characters and gaming concepts (like the case with Miyamoto) but rather how to approach technology and gaming, and him and his team's design input for controllers (most notably the D-Pad) and as you mentioned the Game Boy (the template from which most future portable gaming consoles were based on). He also created or helped create ROB (he was a primarily a toy designer before Nintendo's transition to video games). He also came up with the concept of Game & Watch.

On the former I mentioned in regards to his contributions, Yokoi had the philosophy of "lateral thinking with withered technlogy". His idea was the gaming did not need to have cutting edge technlogy to great, but rather they needed to be above all else, fun. Withered technology in this instance refers to tech that is "mature", which means that is both cheap and/or well understood. Yokoi first put these beliefs to practice with the Game & Watch line of handhelds. Due to fierce competition between Casio and Sharp, there was a glut of LCD screens and semiconductors on the market (as well as the price for them going sharply down). Yokoi utilized "lateral thinking" to incorporate this cheap technology in an unique and fun way. The Game & Watch line of handhelds had gaming experiences similar to what you could have found on the Atari 2600 (many of them were score attack titles with a single screen of action).

This philosophy continued with the Game Boy. Both the Atari Lynx and Sega Game Gear had far better specs than the original Game Boy did. However, Yokoi again opted for technology that was cheap and easy to develop for. A much longer battery life proved to be absolutely integral for handheld viability, something that seems obvious to us today, yet went against the conventional wisdom of gaming (that better specs would likely mean strong demand for your product). His influenced continued with the Nintendo line of handhelds even with the Nintendo DS. When Nintendo similarly incorporated the "lateral thinking with withered technology" approach with the Nintendo Wii, they had their single most successful home console (in terms of units sold) of any home console to date. His philosophy has made a massive impact on Nintendo.

Gunpei Yokoi was the producer of many of Nintendo's games. The arcade Donkey Kong trilogy, the first three Metroid titles, the first four Fire Emblem games, Balloon Fight, Duck Hunt, Kid Icarus, Dr. Mario, and Famicom Detective Club Part 1 and 2 are just some of the games he was a producer for.

Gunpei Yokoi's is a legendary designer for gaming that went beyond designing games themselves. His ideas for how to control games (the D-pad) and how cheap technology can be utilized in novel ways for gaming ("lateral thinking with withered technology") are among the most important contributions to gaming as a whole in my opinion.



Yokoi did not create Metroid and Kid Icarus, he was only the producer. He did not create Wario and Daisy. I think the only characters on the roster he did create are Mr. Game & Watch (since he came up with the concept of Game & Watches), and ROB (Yokoi's forte was being a toy designer).

However, as mentioned above, his contributions to gaming go far beyond characters.



Donkey Kong Country 2 easily predates Tomb Raider and Resident Evil, and Dixie Kong was a co-star in that title (just like Jill Valentine was a co-protagonist in the first Resident Evil). Heck, in Japan, the title for Donkey Kong Country 2 is Super Donkey Kong 2: Dixie and Diddy.

She was also one of the two protagonists for Donkey Kong Country 3 (and even got top billing in the game's subtitle, Dixie's Double Trouble).

Dixie Kong had TWO major games under her belt before Lara Craft and Jill Valentine. Heck, Dixie Kong arguably had four if you count Donkey Kong Land 2 and Donkey Kong Land 3 as well (Land 3 was released in 1997). Both DKC2 and DKC3 were among the Top 10 best selling software of all time for the SNES/SFC.

Dixie Kong might very well have been on track to be a "female Mario" (a character that is appealing across demographics despite their unconventional design), but she inexplicably was absent from Diddy Kong Racing and Donkey Kong 64, which made her practically non-existent for those who only started gaming with a Nintendo 64.

I feel like she was meant to do greater things like K. Rool, but got ignored for awhile after the buyout. I'm postive K. Rool and Dixie were both going to be in all the upcoming DK games by Rare had the buyout never happened. I think Rare leaving Nintendo left them really disconnected to Rare's characters that they own.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Unfortunately true. It wasn't until Tomb Raider and Resident Evil were released that tastes towards games with female protagonists started changing in the West.

That's not the issue, I don't think people really cared about whether or not the main protagonist was female (Super Metroid was one of the most popular SNES games ever). It's more to do with the aesthetic of Panel de Pon that would've made it hard to market here. The thing about all those franchises you mentioned is that they have sort of a "badass"/mature aesthetic whereas something cutesy and overly dainty with fairy girl characters would've been more difficult to sell.

 

[N. Onymous]

So it's less "real men don't play girl games" and more "real women act like men." ...Which is still pretty chauvinist, honestly.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I don't know... I don't think Jill Valentine acts like a man.

 

[N. Onymous]

Well, "real women aren't outwardly feminine," at any rate. That's something Western society still struggles with. Obviously it's not right to pigeonhole women into only being feminine, but skirts and dresses and bright colors aren't inherently sexist, and wearing shorts or jeans doesn't make you better than if you wore a dress or a skirt.

Nintendo just announced they're developing a new entry in a long-running puzzle series! ...And it's Tetris! Yay?

Maybe next time.

 

[lordvaati]

Nintendo just announced they're developing a new entry in a long-running puzzle series! ...And it's Tetris! Yay?

Maybe next time.

To be fair Tetris does turn 35 this year so it is fair game.

 

[EarlTamm]

To be fair Tetris does turn 35 this year so it is fair game.

And the memes that are coming out of it are great.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm not gonna say anything because I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but...wouldn't it be nice?

 

[RouffWestie]

I'm not gonna say anything because I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but...wouldn't it be nice?

Advance wars fans finally getting thier dues

 

[N. Onymous]

Advance wars fans finally getting thier dues

Hah! Not as long as Intelligent Systems is set on this "CO shipping" track.

 

[TFree Mario's best friend]

I don't know if anyone has talked about this yet, but I just wanted to mention how there are a few characters chosen to have a purpose on the overworld map in the World of Light. I am absolutely happy to know that Lip is one of those few.

 

[N. Onymous]

There is an unofficial (as far as I know) survey floating around to monitor how Nintendo fans feel about the Switch and what they think could be improved. One of the questions asks which dormant Nintendo franchise you'd like the most to be revived, so I'd really appreciate it if you filled it out in support for a series I think we all can agree deserves a second chance... The Frog For Whom the Bell Tolls.

(Nah but seriously Lip or bust)

You can access it here.

 

[ChronoBound]

Toxic masculinity is responsible for the "no boy is going to want to play a girl game!" mentality that gave us Tetris Attack in the first place. If you were a boy back then and you openly enjoyed girls' cartoons (or really almost any cartoon whose main cast was more than 50% female), then you were "gay", which was apparently a very bad thing.

The Dixie Kong example kind of falls flat because, if you'll remember from earlier in the thread, American advertisements for Donkey Kong Country 3 advertised Kiddy Kong as the star, not Dixie. Because he was a boy, and video games were boys' toys back then, so if anyone knew you were playing a game that had a traditionally feminine protagonist you were "gay". Even if it was from a franchise that had won several awards and was well-respected for having incredible graphics and even better gameplay.

I can't even remember, but it was something about loving the gameplay, loving the character designs of Panel de Pon (especially Lip), emphasizing the potential for the unique and creative moveset she could bring to the table, pointing out that she's another addition to the growing roster of female fighters... I hope it didn't all fall on deaf ears.

That is unfair to say that changing the theme of the game was due to "toxic masculinity":. In general, puzzle games are marketed to the largest audience possible, which probably the reason why the last two releases for Panel de Pon were completely generic themes without characters. (Planet Puzzle League/Panel de Pon DS in particular was marketed as being part of the Touch Generations line of games, a line of game that was marketed as being for "non-gamers"). That is like being mad at most female game players for not being interested in a game that has muscled out angry space marines as its protagonists. Men and women are different, whether people like it or not, so most of them (not all) have diverging interest on what appeals to them (on average).

Also, during the first half of the 1990's the gaming market was smaller in general, and there were fewer market segments to cater a game to.

As for being insulted in regards to your potential sexuality in regards to what you liked, the fact is that people will use any excuse to shame you if you like something or think differently than the particular environment that you are in (this goes for both offline and online environments).

I am speaking from personal experience, you were insulted even if something you liked would normally be considered cool but it was not something that others knew about. I remember my classmates back in grade school saying Super Metroid was a dumb game because no one ever head of it and that I should feel ashamed for liking it for that reason. I also remember Nintendo in general being considered "kiddy". I did not care. I liked what I wanted to like. However, for most people, that is social death sentence, especially back during the 1990's, where there were much fewer communities where you could find like minded people. I remember when going on the internet for the first time back in 1997 or 1998 being surprised that there were so many other people that thought Super Metroid was a fantastic game.

Even if they used the fairy theme for a game title now, things would not be any different. Most normal people would think of you as a creep or some sort of loli-lover or pedophile. On that note, I will be honest that some of things posted in this actually creeped me out to the point where I did not post anything for months (I do think unfortunately a significant portion of Lip's fanbase are "loli lovers").

The thing is that regardless of the epoch, you are going to be insulted for having interests or opinions that differ from what the prevailing opinion of your environment. All that differs is the words used to shame what you like or think.

I think Yoshi's Island theme for the international Panel de Pon was the right call at the time. I think the big mistake though was using Tetris Attack as the name, as even those at the Tetris Company felt the name was tacked on for a title that was very different from Tetris.

Henk Rogers:
When Nintendo came to us, and said "we would like to take this Japanese game called Panel de Pon, and rename it Tetris Attack", I’m saying, "it’s not Tetris". ... In retrospect, we should never have done that. I don’t think that’s a good idea. It dilutes the brand, it’s like naming another cartoon character Mickey Mouse just cause you need the money. It was a good game! But the game should have had its own life, its own name. It kind of got lost in history cause it got the name Tetris, but it’s not Tetris. It could have, it should have stood up on its own two feet.

I think Panel de Pon would be a lot stronger as a brand if the game was even called "Yoshi's Puzzle Pop", and then subsequent installment called "xxx Puzzle Pop."

As for Kiddy Kong being named in the commercial for DKC3, that was a dumb move by the marketing department, especially considering boys certainly would not prefer a big dumb monkey baby even over a pink wearing monkey girl in the 1990's (especially when most of those prospective buyers for this game were already familiar with Dixie through DKC2, and she was extremely well received). A lot of gaming commercials in general during the 1990's were flat out awful and did little research into a game's prospective market or what the game's appeal was.

But to be honest, they were completely right. I would not have given Panel de Pon a second glance if it had released with Sailor Moon-esque anime girl characters, I was not interested in that kind of aesthetic and only grew a tolerance for them late into my teenage years. It was only after I became an adult that I developed a soft spot for such things.

You can't really hold 90s marketing teams accountable for not catering to tastes that are commonplace today. They were just doing their job, and they made a call in good judgment. I don't think it's "toxic masculinity" at all to understand the tastes of the time period. I know plenty of people, myself included, who would not have given the game the time of day around here if it was released with girl characters. It is only now, years after the fact, that we can say that there is a demand for a game like PDP in the west. But back then if it had released with Lip and her friends I guarantee it would be substantially more niche than it is. Which may or may not have been a bad thing, as Earthbound had found its cult audience long after the fact, but still, its initial reception would've been lukewarm at best.

You hit the nail on the head. Games were expensive for the SNES (many were $60 or $70 which would now correlate to $90-$110 according to an inflation calculator), so you had to basically really explain to your parents why you really wanted that game (and the titles that you would usually get without asking would be ones that would be from the same series that they knew you enjoyed). I do not think I would have gotten Tetris Attack had Yoshi not been the protagonist of that game. I really, really enjoyed Yoshi's Island which made me hungry for another game with Yoshi as the hero.

I think even if the international release still had the fairy theme, I would not have picked up Panel de Pon until I was well until my retro gaming phase which was in the 2000's. I probably would have bought the title when it was released on the Virtual Console (which I did with other lower key SNES titles I missed such as Super Punch-Out).

That is also a good example you gave about EarthBound. It did not sell well upon its initial release and only later on did it develop a strong cult following among Western Nintendo fans. Even titles like Chrono Trigger were not massive hits despite being extremely well received by hardcore gamers back in 1995-1996 simply because the market for those kind of games was not there yet (it was not until FFVII that RPGs became a popular genre on home consoles).

This all being said, I do think Lip absolutely could have been a mascot for the series (she kind of is, but I am talking about in a scenario where she is actually featured in every game and is actually known by most core Nintendo fans) and a Nintendo All-Star in general. I might explain a possible scenario for how this could have been done in the future.