The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[MasterRosie]

Could simply be the original 108 is the number including all unlockables and 103 is the staring number. They probably spoiled us early with the 108 and this time tried to "hide" that fact by going back and saying 103.

It seems rather....odd that an official source like CoroCoro would go back on their word like that. If they truly are trying to hide something, it must be something pretty freaking big for even them to make an oopsie.
Has CoroCoro ever done something like this before on the past-? I don’t recall.

 

[N. Onymous]

It seems rather....odd that an official source like CoroCoro would go back on their word like that. If they truly are trying to hide something, it must be something pretty freaking big for even them to make an oopsie.
Has CoroCoro ever done something like this before on the past-? I don’t recall.

There's someone in the linked Twitter thread that said CoroCoro might be doing this because Nintendo got on their case for accidentally leaking the final stage count.

 

[MasterRosie]

There's someone in the linked Twitter thread that said CoroCoro might be doing this because Nintendo got on their case for accidentally leaking the final stage count.

I see......
Now wouldn’t it be something if one of said “stages” was the Popples....
I mean, people are mentioning an unknown retro rep.

I just thought of two possibilities that Sakurai could have regarding Lip in ultimate:
He could give her the Little Mac treatment or the Pit treatment.
Why I mean by this is since both Little Mac and Lip were in Captain Rainbow, he could do the assist trophy treatment, leading to a new game, then playable in the next installment, or with Pit, he could just straight up make her playable, (Like Pit in Brawl, heard he was quite requested for the game like Lip) leading to a game that would be made by Sakurai.
(Having a PdP game made by Sakurai would be amazing.) Since the game is called ‘Ultimate’ I would like her to get the Pit treatment...but you may never know...she could get the Little Mac treatment to lead to future smash installments. Sakurai did mention opening up Pandora’s box in Ultimate too, so....
What treatment would you prefer Lip to have?

 

[N. Onymous]

I would prefer the Pit treatment, very much.

 

[N-V]

I see......
Now wouldn’t it be something if one of said “stages” was the Popples....
I mean, people are mentioning an unknown retro rep.

I just thought of two possibilities that Sakurai could have regarding Lip in ultimate:
He could give her the Little Mac treatment or the Pit treatment.
Why I mean by this is since both Little Mac and Lip were in Captain Rainbow, he could do the assist trophy treatment, leading to a new game, then playable in the next installment, or with Pit, he could just straight up make her playable, (Like Pit in Brawl, heard he was quite requested for the game like Lip) leading to a game that would be made by Sakurai.
(Having a PdP game made by Sakurai would be amazing.) Since the game is called ‘Ultimate’ I would like her to get the Pit treatment...but you may never know...she could get the Little Mac treatment to lead to future smash installments. Sakurai did mention opening up Pandora’s box in Ultimate too, so....
What treatment would you prefer Lip to have?

I'm assuming the Pit treatment would come with a redesign as well, but either way her being playable would be more ideal. Still, being an assist trophy would be more than she's ever gotten in Smash prior which is pretty sad and would make her available for "promotion" in future installments.
Less on that though, I've been thinking about something. This is quite the long thread so it's probably already been mentioned at this point but if Lip ends up being an assist trophy how would you all feel about Furil being playable? I can't speak for their personalities as I haven't played GC PDP (or the story mode of the original, still gotta git gud) but visually they're damn near the exact same. Furil even has a different stick which would debunk the whole "Lip can't be playable because her stick's an item" thing that gets thrown around. The same sort of logic can be applied to a character like Bomberman, as there are several different Bombermen (i.e, the classic design and Mighty from Jetters). Saki and Isaac kind of apply as well, both having sons (and a wife in Saki's case) that can fulfill the same sort of gameplay and representation albeit with arguably less cool designs.

tl;dr Don't get too pessimistic even if Lip's just an assist.

 

[MasterRosie]

I would prefer the Pit treatment, very much.

Hmmm....considering how Pit was part of Gunpei Yokoi’s creation, and Sakurai revived Kid Icarus from the purgatory it was in Brawl....that is very much possible. Although Takamaru is an assist when he was in Captain Rainbow with Little Mac, (Who is a character) and Lip who still isn’t present. Sukapon is also an Assist Trophy, when he was apparently the most requested NES/SNES character followed by Lip in 2nd. So who knows?
Which btw, has anyone caught onto the trend of the echo fighters? It seems every character that has received one is related to Lip or PdP in some way.
Dark Pit = Echo of Pit who is a creation of Gunpei Yokoi
Lucina = Echo of Marth; made by Intelligent Systems, just like PdP
Daisy = Created by Gunpei Yokoi, like Lip
Chrom = FE character; made by Intelligent Systems, just like PdP
Dark Samus = Echo of Samus who is a creation of Gunpei Yokoi
Richter = For some reason, Sakurai made him hold a Lip’s Stick....for some odd reason.

I'm assuming the Pit treatment would come with a redesign as well, but either way her being playable would be more ideal. Still, being an assist trophy would be more than she's ever gotten in Smash prior which is pretty sad and would make her available for "promotion" in future installments.
Less on that though, I've been thinking about something. This is quite the long thread so it's probably already been mentioned at this point but if Lip ends up being an assist trophy how would you all feel about Furil being playable? I can't speak for their personalities as I haven't played GC PDP (or the story mode of the original, still gotta git gud) but visually they're damn near the exact same. Furil even has a different stick which would debunk the whole "Lip can't be playable because her stick's an item" thing that gets thrown around. The same sort of logic can be applied to a character like Bomberman, as there are several different Bombermen (i.e, the classic design and Mighty from Jetters). Saki and Isaac kind of apply as well, both having sons (and a wife in Saki's case) that can fulfill the same sort of gameplay and representation albeit with arguably less cool designs.

tl;dr Don't get too pessimistic even if Lip's just an assist.

Yeah, never understood why people think a character is ‘deconfirmed’ from an item. Like we said before, the Screw Attack and Samus coexist. Plus, the stick Lip holds with her is closed when not in use, unlike the item.
As for Furil, I heavily doubt she would be able to make it before Lip. Lip herself is obscure, and Furil is even more obscure. I mean, Nintendo THEMSELVES mistook her for Lip in a Brawl sticker. Just goes to show how little they cared to look stuff up. Sigh.
(Although since I mentioned the echoes being related to Lip, maybe a Furil echo as DLC or something if Lip is playable? It would be a good way to introduce people to her. Oh, and re-release the GameCube PdP on the switch, please Nintendo.)

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hmmm....considering how Pit was part of Gunpei Yokoi’s creation, and Sakurai revived Kid Icarus from the purgatory it was in Brawl....that is very much possible. Although Takamaru is an assist when he was in Captain Rainbow with Little Mac, (Who is a character) and Lip who still isn’t present. Sukapon is also an Assist Trophy, when he was apparently the most requested NES/SNES character followed by Lip in 2nd. So who knows?
Which btw, has anyone caught onto the trend of the echo fighters? It seems every character that has received one is related to Lip or PdP in some way.
Dark Pit = Echo of Pit who is a creation of Gunpei Yokoi
Lucina = Echo of Marth; made by Intelligent Systems, just like PdP
Daisy = Created by Gunpei Yokoi, like Lip
Chrom = FE character; made by Intelligent Systems, just like PdP
Dark Samus = Echo of Samus who is a creation of Gunpei Yokoi
Richter = For some reason, Sakurai made him hold a Lip’s Stick....for some odd reason.



Yeah, never understood why people think a character is ‘deconfirmed’ from an item. Like we said before, the Screw Attack and Samus coexist. Plus, the stick Lip holds with her is closed when not in use, unlike the item.
As for Furil, I heavily doubt she would be able to make it before Lip. Lip herself is obscure, and Furil is even more obscure. I mean, Nintendo THEMSELVES mistook her for Lip in a Brawl sticker. Just goes to show how little they cared to look stuff up. Sigh.
(Although since I mentioned the echoes being related to Lip, maybe a Furil echo as DLC or something if Lip is playable? It would be a good way to introduce people to her. Oh, and re-release the GameCube PdP on the switch, please Nintendo.)

Don’t you think you’re kind of reaching? I mean, I don’t think Sakurai determines what treatment he’ll give a character across several games based on whether they were created by Gunpei Yokoi, or whether they were in Captain Rainbow. The Richter connection is tenuous at best.

As for whether Lip will get the Pit treatment or the Little Mac treatment, I think there’s not really a distinction to be made? Think about it, Assist Trophies didn’t exist in Melee, so Pit got in as the next best thing (and all-new trophy with a specially made 3D model, with ‘Will he ever fly again?’ as part of the description). With the addition of Assist Trophies, I think that’s the new way to go. You include them as an AT, let the support grow, and then make them the next retro rep at a lesser risk. Given Takamaru’s huge growth in support, I’d say it works.

 

[MasterRosie]

Don’t you think you’re kind of reaching? I mean, I don’t think Sakurai determines what treatment he’ll give a character across several games based on whether they were created by Gunpei Yokoi, or whether they were in Captain Rainbow. The Richter connection is tenuous at best.

As for whether Lip will get the Pit treatment or the Little Mac treatment, I think there’s not really a distinction to be made? Think about it, Assist Trophies didn’t exist in Melee, so Pit got in as the next best thing (and all-new trophy with a specially made 3D model, with ‘Will he ever fly again?’ as part of the description). With the addition of Assist Trophies, I think that’s the new way to go. You include them as an AT, let the support grow, and then make them the next retro rep at a lesser risk. Given Takamaru’s huge growth in support, I’d say it works.

In the case of Lip, I don’t think it’s that much of a reach. She appears to be a special case, imo.
Sakurai had all the time in the world since Brawl to properly make Lip an AT...but still didn’t? And Takamaru is still an AT in Ultimate despite the support, and the mii costume he’s had? And technically, Lip did too, but it AC, not Smash 4. Shouldn’t Lip already be revealed as an AT and Takamaru be playable now if this is the case? Same goes for normal Nintendo characters like Ashley, Waluigi, and Lyn who all are still assists despite the support. A lot of decisions Sakurai has made in Ultimate seems oddly off....& the fact ‘Everyone Is Here’ despite the sight of Lip. (When apparently, Lip and Arle were actually supported more than Taka on the ballot.)

 

[N. Onymous]

And all I can think of is "Who's Haruka?"

 

[Jyl]

And all I can think of is "Who's Haruka?"

From idolm@ster.
Technically it did start as a video game series...

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Goomba? What the hey happened in Japan?

 

[MasterRosie]

Yeah...Japan surely has some....odd choices.
(No offense to them tho.)
Although with how big Arle’s support is...
And how Lip is there (even tho she’s smaller) I hope Sakurai will still put them in as playable. They do have Western fans too.

 

[N-V]

In the case of Lip, I don’t think it’s that much of a reach. She appears to be a special case, imo.
Sakurai had all the time in the world since Brawl to properly make Lip an AT...but still didn’t? And Takamaru is still an AT in Ultimate despite the support, and the mii costume he’s had? And technically, Lip did too, but it AC, not Smash 4. Shouldn’t Lip already be revealed as an AT and Takamaru be playable now if this is the case? Same goes for normal Nintendo characters like Ashley, Waluigi, and Lyn who all are still assists despite the support. A lot of decisions Sakurai has made in Ultimate seems oddly off....& the fact ‘Everyone Is Here’ despite the sight of Lip. (When apparently, Lip and Arle were actually supported more than Taka on the ballot.)
View attachment 171263

Had to do a double take upon seeing how high Haruka was, but then after a laughing fit I remembered just how popular IM@S is (or was, now) over there. I can only assume Haruka tops all of the other idols due to a certain meme

Otherwise, Arle and Jibanyan make a lot of sense. I think Japan is a lot less vocal about the characters in general though, just kind of taking what their given. I remember reading something about them being a disappointed about the current "west pandering" with roster picks though (this was before Isabelle), if 2ch is to be believed. Speaking of which, people should be doing research on places like that rather than just twitter and pixiv.

 

[MasterRosie]

Here’s also what I could find for a Western ballot count:

Arle is also present there too...same with Jibanyan.
Considering how you can’t really include Arle without Lip, (Well, I guess Sakurai COULD, but I doubt he would want to, he seems to have a very subtle love for PdP with Kirby.) I think Lip may actually have a shot as a surprise retro rep in the base roster, while Arle could be an unlockable or DLC. And maybe add Shantae too, to please Western fans who would want a playable Indie character. Arle is also next to Shadow, who are both Sega characters. So what if we actually get 4 reps per 3rd party? If you include the rumored Microsoft, Ubisoft, and Bethesda characters being in, that would be 32 3rd party characters. Sweet mother of god.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Here’s also what I could find for a Western ballot count:
View attachment 171289
Arle is also present there too...same with Jibanyan.
Considering how you can’t really include Arle without Lip, (Well, I guess Sakurai COULD, but I doubt he would want to, he seems to have a very subtle love for PdP with Kirby.) I think Lip may actually have a shot as a surprise retro rep in the base roster, while Arle could be an unlockable or DLC. And maybe add Shantae too, to please Western fans who would want a playable Indie character. Arle is also next to Shadow, who are both Sega characters. So what if we actually get 4 reps per 3rd party? If you include the rumored Microsoft, Ubisoft, and Bethesda characters being in, that would be 32 3rd party characters. Sweet mother of god.

That isn't an exclusive western ballot count. It also took into account Japanese findings alongside polls from Europe and the US. Magalor, Jibanyan and Arle wouldn't be that without the Japanese information. It literally says what their Japanese ranking is as well

 

[MasterRosie]

That isn't an exclusive western ballot count. It also took into account Japanese findings alongside polls from Europe and the US. Magalor, Jibanyan and Arle wouldn't be that without the Japanese information. It literally says what their Japanese ranking is as well

Oh right. Oops.

 

[Wurmple for smash]

I never played any of her games, but I'll support anyway

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

In the case of Lip, I don’t think it’s that much of a reach. She appears to be a special case, imo.
Sakurai had all the time in the world since Brawl to properly make Lip an AT...but still didn’t? And Takamaru is still an AT in Ultimate despite the support, and the mii costume he’s had? And technically, Lip did too, but it AC, not Smash 4. Shouldn’t Lip already be revealed as an AT and Takamaru be playable now if this is the case? Same goes for normal Nintendo characters like Ashley, Waluigi, and Lyn who all are still assists despite the support. A lot of decisions Sakurai has made in Ultimate seems oddly off....& the fact ‘Everyone Is Here’ despite the sight of Lip. (When apparently, Lip and Arle were actually supported more than Taka on the ballot.)
View attachment 171263

That's not real data. It's a joke poll by a poster and fan of Haruka from IdolMaster on ResetEra.

 

[N. Onymous]

I never played any of her games, but I'll support anyway

Thanks! We'll get more supporters like you yet.

That's not real data. It's a joke poll by a poster and fan of Haruka from IdolMaster on ResetEra.

Well, that makes sense. Haruka is a "literally who" even among some Lip supporters, so...that should really tell you all you need to know about her chances of being in Smash Bros., haha.

 

[Ridrool64]

I literally learned of Haruka from SiivaGunner. That's how I even knew about the Idolmaster series. At least I actually found out about Puyo and Panel de Pon proper.

 

[N-V]

That's not real data. It's a joke poll by a poster and fan of Haruka from IdolMaster on ResetEra.

Like the LaPailleDor leak? Damn, consider me rused. Although the thought of people wanting Haruka in Smash is pretty hilarious.

I literally learned of Haruka from SiivaGunner. That's how I even knew about the Idolmaster series. At least I actually found out about Puyo and Panel de Pon proper.

You sure you're not thinking of Love Live? To be fair I haven't checked out Siiva in quite some time, but I don't remember any iM@S rips.

 

[Ridrool64]

During the SiivaGunner reboot back in 2016, Love Live was replaced by Idolmaster (as part of an alternate universe gimmick). That was when I learned that it even existed (Idolmaster)

 

[RouffWestie]

Welp, better luck in the next Smash Lip, if you're actually given a chance to star in a game between now and then of course.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Rouff, I knew you'd come here as soon as something like this happened. :L

I think we should not jump to immediate conclusions yet.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Either way, there are still DLC possibilities.

 

[Jyl]

I'll be away from this board for a while...

 

[MasterRosie]

Mach Rider?

That makes NO SENSE tho.
Mach Rider has already been seen as a song on Wrecking Crew, unlike Lip’s Theme.

This banner art has to messing with us, I just can’t believe Sakurai would do this. No way.

EDIT:
I’m sorry for getting people’s hopes up.
I might be absent for a while too.

 

[Ridrool64]

I prefer to think like this.

Regardless of whether Verge or Grinch is what happens, Arle is still extremely likely as DLC. And once SEGA's puzzle star becomes part of the equation, why not have Nintendo's own too? (Not Cosplay Mario. Or Pikachu. Or Yoshi. Lip.)

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Mach Rider?

That makes NO SENSE tho.
Mach Rider has already been seen as a song on Wrecking Crew, unlike Lip’s Theme.

This banner art has to messing with us, I just can’t believe Sakurai would do this. No way.

EDIT:
I’m sorry for getting people’s hopes up.
I might be absent for a while too.

Ice Climbers is included in the Other section as well, the same could be the case for Mach Rider too

 

[MasterRosie]

Ice Climbers is included in the Other section as well, the same could be the case for Mach Rider too

Oh yeah...
Well, I guess all we do is wait for the next inevitable direct to drop. Maybe Sakurai will surprise us.
Although I highly doubt it now.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

TBH I'd be fine with this roster; but I'm also kinda skeptical even if i have no basis for it. The leak game has become a lot more competitive so it's hard to trust my own eyes at this point tbh

 

[MasterRosie]

Y’know, I take back what I said before.
Still not giving up on Lip, I’ll still support her as possible DLC.
She has to appear in the game somehow, or else ‘Everyone Is Here’ is a lie.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Exactly, MRosie. No need to give up. DLC is still on the table.
Even if she got to become an Assist Trophy that would be a huge WIN.
Not my most prefferable, but a huge victory for Panel De Pon in general.

No matter what year it might be 20XX, a new chance to fight for Lip will always be fun.
ALSO, now that a lot of old wants from the Brawl days are out, imagine the less competition she would get, and we get time to make a new movement!

 

[MasterRosie]

Exactly, MRosie. No need to give up. DLC is still on the table.
Even if she got to become an Assist Trophy that would be a huge WIN.
Not my most prefferable, but a huge victory for Panel De Pon in general.

No matter what year it might be 20XX, a new chance to fight for Lip will always be fun.
ALSO, now that a lot of old wants from the Brawl days are out, imagine the less competition she would get, and we get time to make a new movement!

I still feel like Sakurai will pull a quick one on us despite this banner being revealed. There’s no way he’s going to neglect Lip again. Don’t give up hope, guys!
(Besides the final roster count has to be divisible by 4 for smashdown to work, and I don’t think it does here.)

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I still feel like Sakurai will pull a quick one on us despite this banner being revealed. There’s no way he’s going to neglect Lip again. Don’t give up hope, guys!
(Besides the final roster count has to be divisible by 4 for smashdown to work, and I don’t think it does here.)

I hate to break it to you; but for various reasons the Smashdown theory just doesn't hold water.

 

[MasterRosie]

I hate to break it to you; but for various reasons the Smashdown theory just doesn't hold water.

Why not?
Having a remainder of fighters unused would be awkward, and would ruin a lot of people’s OCD.

 

[StarDustStorm]

I still feel like Sakurai will pull a quick one on us despite this banner being revealed. There’s no way he’s going to neglect Lip again. Don’t give up hope, guys!
(Besides the final roster count has to be divisible by 4 for smashdown to work, and I don’t think it does here.)

The truth is that all of the retro reps in Smash has had their game released early into a Nintendo console's life, and has had one or very few games. (Even Mach Rider was released early into the NES life if the character really is a playable fighter in the game)
PDP has had many games, and the first Panel de Pon game was released LATE into the SFC life. The N64 would be released about 6-9 months after the release. Pretty much all of Nintendo's 16-bit era IPs had game after that era. We don't need to discuss the rebranding of the series because we should know that, but it technically makes Lip Japan-only.

If the series was as popular as Mother & Fire Emblem (Which no other Japan-only Nintendo series has) then it obviously wouldn't be a problem.
The closest thing I see for a previously Japanese series being included in Smash similar to Mother & Fire Emblem is Puyo Puyo (Mostly Japan-only releases) but that's a 3rd Party franchise but really only has a chance for DLC as PPT localization was released after the 2015 project plan.

The Animal Crossing outfit was 3 years late into New Leaf's life so there wasn't as much people playing the game when the DLC was released back in 2016. Still, people do not know her, and that has not changed since Melee regarding her obscurity, and an appearance in any form is needed for her. She's certainly not unknown in Japan thanks to the SFC Mini so there isn't an excuse for her not to appear in some form. Maybe Death from the Castlevania Series might share a trophy with his Scythe or be separate, but if that was the case maybe Lip can appear in the Lip's Stick trophy in Ultimate.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Why not?
Having a remainder of fighters unused would be awkward, and would ruin a lot of people’s OCD.

That would mean smashdown would be locked if you didn't have a divisible amount of characters unlocked. Plus; what of DLC? That would upset the balence as well.

 

[N. Onymous]

Wait, what happened? Is there something I missed?

Are we talking about this?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Yep. The Grinch stole Smash Bro's lmao.