The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[11th]

like they did with Custom Robo.

That's not what happened. The trademark was for "compact disks and optical disks" (CDs -- specifically, the CDs for that game), not "software" (the game itself). The Switch uses cartridges, not disks, so there was no need to renew it. This person explained it pretty well.

Short version: Custom Robo is fine.

 

[Jurae818]

One idea I had for a Lip-centered trailer was a flashback to Melee and various characters fighting among the stages while her stick appeared, the camera panning to it, likewise with Brawl and Smash For. Finally, the stick makes another appearance while a fight is going on and an explosion occurs, causing the stick to fly in the sky.

Then, someone grabs it.

As the battle continues, a panel falls from the sky, and another and so on. Eventually, a garbage block slams down on Yoshi (For lack of a better character) for comedic effect. From the skies holding onto a flower...

Lip arrives at the Panel!

 

[smashkirby]

That's not what happened. The trademark was for "compact disks and optical disks" (CDs -- specifically, the CDs for that game), not "software" (the game itself). The Switch uses cartridges, not disks, so there was no need to renew it. This person explained it pretty well.

Short version: Custom Robo is fine.

Wha--- Are you for real right now?

 

[N. Onymous]

That's good news (and makes sense, because the Custom Robo GCN disc is long out of print). I really doubt Nintendo would just let one of their franchises go like that, even one of their more obscure ones.

 

[MasterRosie]

Even so, Nintendo has no reason to treat Panel de Pon the way they are now.
ESPECIALLY after SEGA giving Puyo Puyo recognition.
It pains me to say this, but:
SEGA does what Nintendon’t.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

That's good news (and makes sense, because the Custom Robo GCN disc is long out of print). I really doubt Nintendo would just let one of their franchises go like that, even one of their more obscure ones.

I mean if they are holding onto Eternal Darkness all this time then there is no reason to get rid of Custom Robo.

 

[N. Onymous]

Even so, Nintendo has no reason to treat Panel de Pon the way they are now.
ESPECIALLY after SEGA giving Puyo Puyo recognition.
It pains me to say this, but:
SEGA does what Nintendon’t.

Sega bringing over their iconic puzzle series for the first time in ages...Is Nintendo really gonna take that lying down?

...yeah. Yeah, I guess they are. Hm.

 

[Jyl]

Even so, Nintendo has no reason to treat Panel de Pon the way they are now.
ESPECIALLY after SEGA giving Puyo Puyo recognition.
It pains me to say this, but:
SEGA does what Nintendon’t.

Pretty shocking to since lately Sega seems to focus only on Sonic while the other great Sega games are left in the dust.
Puyo Puyo is an amazing game.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Pretty shocking to since lately Sega seems to focus only on Sonic while the other great Sega games are left in the dust.
Puyo Puyo is an amazing game.

Puyo Puyo isn't actually really a dormant franchise, since it has been getting releases sometimes the series did have a 1-2 year gap without a game but not enough to call it a dormant franchise. Though most of the games were only released in Japan. Puyo Nexus is a cult dedicated to the Puyo Puyo series, since most of the games weren't released in English they made Fan Translations for Puyo Puyo games and Chronicles has Translation guides, though there's no fan translation. SEGA said they might localize it if Puyo Puyo Tetris sells well. I was heartbroken being a Tetris fan when I found out a Tetris game wasn't going to be released outside of Japan back when the game was first released.
Puyo Puyo is big in Japan, some videos get even more than a million views. You can't deny the fact that she was the most voted SEGA character in Japan, even more than Bayonetta's votes in that region. She was one place ahead of Cloud in that poll results too.
I'm really unsure if Sakurai would want to include Arle as a playable character before Lip but Lip's relevance is very low without a new game. I think the Smash community would be shocked if that actually happened or if she made an appearance in Ultimate in some form before Lip.
I still feel like a lot of the characters with a lot of potential are locked out because of the December 2015 project plan considering the amount of revivals and localizations that happened after that deadline. DLC will probably take out those issues of being too recent.

 

[Jyl]

Puyo Puyo isn't actually really a dormant franchise, since it has been getting releases sometimes the series did have a 1-2 year gap without a game but not enough to call it a dormant franchise. Though most of the games were only released in Japan. Puyo Nexus is a cult dedicated to the Puyo Puyo series, since most of the games weren't released in English they made Fan Translations for Puyo Puyo games and Chronicles has Translation guides, though there's no fan translation. SEGA said they might localize it if Puyo Puyo Tetris sells well. I was heartbroken being a Tetris fan when I found out a Tetris game wasn't going to be released outside of Japan back when the game was first released.
Puyo Puyo is big in Japan, some videos get even more than a million views. You can't deny the fact that she was the most voted SEGA character in Japan, even more than Bayonetta's votes in that region. She was one place ahead of Cloud in that poll results too.
I'm really unsure if Sakurai would want to include Arle as a playable character before Lip but Lip's relevance is very low without a new game. I think the Smash community would be shocked if that actually happened.

Oh I see, wasn't Puyo Puyo Tetris the first time it was released in the West without a heavy makeover like how Puyo Puyo was reskinned into Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine? Not too familiar with the series' history but I know it received similar treatment as Panel de Pon.
I think one of the reasons Panel de Pon never really took off in Japan is because Lip's games kept getting cancelled (N64, Gamecube) back then.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Oh I see, wasn't Puyo Puyo Tetris the first time it was released in the West without a heavy makeover like how Puyo Puyo was reskinned into Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine? Not too familiar with the series' history but I know it received similar treatment as Panel de Pon.
I think one of the reasons Panel de Pon never really took off in Japan is because Lip's games kept getting cancelled (N64, Gamecube) back then.

SEGA's Puyo Pop localization was released back in 2002 and if that game sold well enough, I think Nintendo might of considered localizing Nintendo Puzzle Collection. Puyo Pop Fever was released in late 2003 outside of Japan but those two games didn't sell that well so SEGA decided to continue the series exclusively in Japan.
Puyo Puyo is also going to be an Esport in Japan.
Puyo Puyo had little cameos in SEGA crossovers with the notable cameo WITHOUT the characters in Sega Superstar Tennis. Yakuza 6 has a Puyo Puyo arcade game in 2016 (WW in 2018).
I don't know how Nintendo will be able to squeeze in a Panel de Pon game like they did with ACNL because SEGA's excuse for being able to use arcade cabinets to play SEGA games is because they've been known for the Arcades in the past. I doubt they don't want to do that because of money, unless its like the Luigi Bros. or NES Remix alteration games.

 

[N. Onymous]

Oh I see, wasn't Puyo Puyo Tetris the first time it was released in the West without a heavy makeover like how Puyo Puyo was reskinned into Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine? Not too familiar with the series' history but I know it received similar treatment as Panel de Pon.
I think one of the reasons Panel de Pon never really took off in Japan is because Lip's games kept getting cancelled (N64, Gamecube) back then.

The very first Puyo Puyo game was released over here with few changes, but only the arcade version.

 

[FooltheFlames]

So... how about that trailer concept I put up?

Something to keep this thread from becoming a salt mine to rival Hallstatt?

I really like your trailer concept (^ ^)

Well, Love him or hate him, technically he hasn't been wrong about smash ultimate yet.

That was from before I started following him. He is a lot more cautious now than he was six months ago.

The source that is claiming there will be a second Square-Enix character is the same one that knew about Ridley and Simon Belmont.

But still, it does prove he has been wrong before right? Unlike what the poster above you seems to think...

I to have made my rounds posting that exact same topic on other places where verge is worshipped on the web. People need to wake up; he is only a man, not an all knowing God.

Thing is Retro is always secretive.

While it's true that Ice Climbers were shown off early in Melee. Same did not apply for Game & Watch, which also could be considered Retro.
Brawl = Pit was shown very early, and R.O.B very late as a secret.
Smash 4 = Mega Man? Early, Lil' Mac in the mid, and Duck Hunt shown late/secret.
Ultimate = K. Rool or Simon early? and the most noticable retro is as seen with the others, always late/last?/secretive.

I just really hope it's not Excitebiker or Mach Rider.
I'd take Mike Jones, Donbe & Hikari, Balloon Fighter, Ayumi Tachibana, Prince Sable, a PilotWings char, and of course, the one and only that I really would love; Lip from Panel De Pon. (which interestingly some people don't consider Retro, like whuuuuut?)

Donbe & Hikari is a fun game :D

Retro means "old but cool," as it always has. Lip's old (her game is, anyway), Lip's cool, ergo Lip is retro.

And SNES is retro too! B-)

Come on now your being way too pessimistic. I understand your frustration because I also don't agree with the direction Smash 4 took with their newcomer but you shouldn't act like this, not as the creator of this thread.
I mean I just joined so I may not be qualified to say this but you shouldn't jump to conclusions this easily when the game is 3 months away, and we haven't even gotten to the inevitable DLC.
If Lip is in, great.
If not, there's always DLC. You should keep fighting and show support until the end, if you do they will notice our support one of these days.

Funny but all this brings up the die-hard Ashley supporters still left out there too.
How do you think we feel? Everyday at least one of us gets told Asisst Trophies can never be playable, even though the past has proven that wrong before. We are told that but still haven't given up on the chance for DLC.
But the pessimism is starting to sink in for some of us too. Even on the Ashley discord a few of us are starting to believe she won't be playable until Smash 6.
Sometimes I think N.Onymous may be right. That Smash only serves as a corporate sell out now instead of a celebration of all things Nintendo it once was. Sometimes I think if we were getting WW Switch in 2019 instead of AC Switch, we would have Ashley here instead of Isabelle...

But I don't want to start thinking like that for good. I like Animal Crossing! I don't want to start unfairly blaming it or K.Rool or minecraft, etc. As the new focus of my hate... But sometimes it's hard to stay positive for your favorite character amongst all the negative news. So I understand what N.Onymous is going through right now. I've been going thru it too...

 

[MasterRosie]

Arle: Hey Lip! How you doing?
Lip: .....
Arle: Uh huh....how has Nintendo been treating you?
Lip: .....
Arle: What’s wro-oh no, don’t tell me...
Lip: ....mhm.
Arle: Nintendo...they didn’t ever....
Lip: Nuh-Uh.
Arle: Even after SEGA...
Lip:
Arle: ....I’m so sorry.
Lip: My flower stick is still relevant tho....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

 

[N. Onymous]

She'll get her day eventually... I hope...

 

[FooltheFlames]

PLEASE add Lip to Smash soon Sakurai!!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sega bringing over their iconic puzzle series for the first time in ages...Is Nintendo really gonna take that lying down?

...yeah. Yeah, I guess they are. Hm.

Pretty shocking to since lately Sega seems to focus only on Sonic while the other great Sega games are left in the dust.
Puyo Puyo is an amazing game.

They've been through financial troubles that they're just getting out of now (with Yakuza managing to survive the PS3 era), so there's a new Streets of Rage coming (and even a new Fist of the North Star tie-in game, for good measure), so things might change in the future. Also, Toejam and Earl is a thing on Kickstarter, if it counts.

That being said, Nintendo is strangely allergic to puzzle games. Even BoxBoy eventually ended decisively with Goodbye! Box Boy!.

But since Arzest's last game was a puzzle game, I'd say that's a well-deserved punishment for them, just like 989 Games being consigned to sports games for butchering Twisted Metal.

 

[StarDustStorm]

They've been through financial troubles that they're just getting out of now (with Yakuza managing to survive the PS3 era), so there's a new Streets of Rage coming (and even a new Fist of the North Star tie-in game, for good measure), so things might change in the future. Also, Toejam and Earl is a thing on Kickstarter, if it counts.

That being said, Nintendo is strangely allergic to puzzle games. Even BoxBoy eventually ended decisively with Goodbye! Box Boy!.

But since Arzest's last game was a puzzle game, I'd say that's a well-deserved punishment for them, just like 989 Games being consigned to sports games for butchering Twisted Metal.

So the reason Puyo Puyo survived because the games are literally much cheaper to produce considering the fact that the games has always used 2d models during that time? This could also explain the complete art direction change since they've bought the rights from Compile.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So the reason Puyo Puyo survived because the games are literally much cheaper to produce considering the fact that the games has always used 2d models during that time? This could also explain the complete art direction change since they've bought the rights from Compile.

Seems about right.

You could say that Nintendo's cheapest method to make puzzle games is to simply not do anything.

But seriously though, they have to realise someday that PdP means a lot to the cult international audiences who know of it.

View attachment 166007
View attachment 166008
PLEASE add Lip to Smash soon Sakurai!!

I like the top one better, it's less depressing.

 

[FooltheFlames]

I wish I could give Lip a hug IRL and tell her she still has many fans who support her to this day

 

[NukeA6]

Even so, Nintendo has no reason to treat Panel de Pon the way they are now.
ESPECIALLY after SEGA giving Puyo Puyo recognition.
It pains me to say this, but:
SEGA does what Nintendon’t.

No kidding. She's in even in that Tetris crossover despite the box art looking like Tetris Attack. I'm starting to think Sega might be the one to revive Panel de Pon if not Sakurai.

 

[MasterRosie]

It’s sad too, because I feel PdP has so much potential.
I could see them expanding the little sky islands the fairies reside on into unique sand box like worlds to adventure and explore through as Lip, (maybe add some minor characters here and there to make the place feel even more alive as you also take on side quests) as you battle enemies in the over world in the original Panel De Pon puzzle style. You would find and locate Lip’s fairy friend of each world, and take on a possessed version of them (by Thanatos’s curse of course) as a tougher boss battle. After you defeat them one by one, they join your aid and are allies that fight alongside Lip as they all at the end head into a treacherous cave in Death Mountain to fight Thanatos and a possessed Cordelia.

There could even be a level up system where you gain EXP for winning a panel battle against an enemy, and it makes you stronger as you go on.
I don’t know of that many games that incorporate open world games with puzzle battle elements in it as well. I would want Panel de Pon to take a different approach in a revival than Puyo Puyo so it stands out.

And I also just thought: Maybe include cutscenes and bit more story to it? Maybe upgrade Thanatos with character and maybe an even more intimidating form to make him stand out as an amazing villain? Imagine if we got Thanatos later to stand up with Nintendo’s other big baddies like Bowser, Ganondorf, (technically) Dedede, and King K Rool?
Nintendo...plz

 

[N. Onymous]

It’s sad too, because I feel PdP has so much potential.
I could see them expanding the little sky islands the fairies reside on into unique sand box like worlds to adventure and explore through as Lip, (maybe add some minor characters here and there to make the place feel even more alive as you also take on side quests) as you battle enemies in the over world in the original Panel De Pon puzzle style. You would find and locate Lip’s fairy friend of each world, and take on a possessed version of them (by Thanatos’s curse of course) as a tougher boss battle. After you defeat them one by one, they join your aid and are allies that fight alongside Lip as they all at the end head into a treacherous cave in Death Mountain to fight Thanatos and a possessed Cordelia.

There could even be a level up system where you gain EXP for winning a panel battle against an enemy, and it makes you stronger as you go on.
I don’t know of that many games that incorporate open world games with puzzle battle elements in it as well. I would want Panel de Pon to take a different approach in a revival than Puyo Puyo so it stands out.
Nintendo...plz

I would pay so much money to see this actually happen.

 

[MasterRosie]

I would make my own fan project of it, but Nintendo would probably take it down, given their history with that.
Which would be HIGHLY ironic, since they haven’t done a thing with the series in years.
Y’know, I love Nintendo, but sometimes, I wish they appreciated fan works as much as SEGA.
(Although I guess that’s kinda because they struggle making sufficient Sonic games themselves.)

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I would make my own fan project of it, but Nintendo would probably take it down, given their history with that.
Which would be HIGHLY ironic, since they haven’t done a thing with the series in years.
Y’know, I love Nintendo, but sometimes, I wish they appreciated fan works as much as SEGA.
(Although I guess that’s kinda because they struggle making sufficient Sonic games themselves.)

Nintendo is the master of sitting on awesome franchises that they never intend to use ever again.

 

[NukeA6]

Still, 2016 had the Lip costume and some form of Panel de Pon so it's not like she's gonna be forgotten so easily. Unless New Leaf also had obscure games like Murasame Castle and Detective Club. So Lip isn't on Stanley the Bugman status.

And I'm willing to bet the Minecraft stuff is a stage just like Pilotwings and Wrecking Crew had no rep. I don't even believe we're getting anything from that series especially since we don't even have a Tetris or SimCity stage yet.

 

[Jyl]

Don't worry guys, the little cameo in Animal Crossing might be testing the water, and it was received positively in the West. The fact that they didn't remove Lip's costume in the West is telling for me

 

[N. Onymous]

Don't worry guys, the little cameo in Animal Crossing might be testing the water, and it was received positively in the West. The fact that they didn't remove Lip's costume in the West is telling for me

Again, I hope you're right. Even if a lot of people didn't know who Lippy was, that outfit is adorbs, and its inclusion as an unlockable from a Puzzle League minigame is awfully telling.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Your nickname for Lip is adorbs~<3

 

[Jyl]

Again, I hope you're right. Even if a lot of people didn't know who Lippy was, that outfit is adorbs, and its inclusion as an unlockable from a Puzzle League minigame is awfully telling.

Still that puzzle mini game came after development for Ultimate started. Hopefully it doesn't mean much..

 

[MasterRosie]

Still that puzzle mini game came after development for Ultimate started. Hopefully it doesn't mean much..

I mean, Sakurai could have told Nintendo to hold off on the puzzle mini game in AC New Leaf for 2016.

 

[Jyl]

I mean, Sakurai could have told Nintendo to hold off on the puzzle mini game in AC New Leaf for 2016.

I guess. We can only hope, man.

 

[StarDustStorm]

My only problem with the Puzzle League Logo is that it lacks round edges, mainly because they never used the fairies to market the game outside of Japan. It tells you the series is more marketed towards boys and more mature than the Japanese one.I think the series should be renamed to Panel de Pon outside of Japan if they make a new game. In the cancelled GC release, they did say the game was Panel de Pon, so maybe they only use the Puzzle League name if they don't use the fairies, though in the Multiboot rom in Dr. Mario & Puzzle League they called the game Puzzle League.

 

[MasterRosie]

View attachment 166085View attachment 166086
My only problem with the Puzzle League Logo is that it lacks round edges, mainly because they never used the fairies to market the game outside of Japan. It tells you the series is more marketed towards boys and more mature than the Japanese one.I think the series should be renamed to Panel de Pon outside of Japan if they make a new game. In the cancelled GC release, they did say the game was Panel de Pon, so maybe they only use the Puzzle League name if they don't use the fairies, though in the Multiboot rom in Dr. Mario & Puzzle League they called the game Puzzle League.

They BETTER use the fairies.
That’s what I’m sure most PdP fans have been waiting for for years now.
No offense to Yoshi, but I would be upset if they pulled the whole ‘replacement’ thing again.
Lip needs to be properly revived and given her own identity to stand on rather than relying on Yoshi’s already given popularity. Otherwise, barely a thing would change. People would still be oblivious to her existence, which is the boat she is in now.
Plus, the whole ‘Female cast’ thing is not even a problem now. If MLP can have a male fanbase, so can PdP. (Even though they are different types of media).

 

[Iko MattOrr]

"Puzzle League" makes me think of some competitive event, a tourney of puzzle solving organized into a stadium or something like that.
I would be fine with the series being called Puzzle League outside japan, but I think it thematically doesn't fit, it removes the fantasy element.
Panel de Pon would be too japanese, though they kept "Tomodachi" in Tomodachi Life/Collection so it may not be a problem.

Visually, that logo just doesn't work in so many ways.
Imagine it in the title screen of Panel de Pon, with all the flowers and lip... both the color scheme and the shape of the logo would be unfitting.

Ok, it works in a neutral version of the game with no characters and just the panels, or with the Pokèmon version because the pokèmon league is a thing and the title would sound like a pun; but that's not the real Panel de Pon.

 

[Jurae818]

The worst thing they did to Panel de Pon was not change the characters but call it Tetris Attack. What the hell does that even mean? Were the localizers that boneheaded that they saw the original was a puzzle game and thought of Tetris and figured that was a genius move to call it that? Legally, they can't re-release the game for those who liked the Yoshi aesthetic and on top of that, the fairies are more or less dead with no future. The Tetris Company founder even regretted allowing them to rebrand it with the Tetris name and acknowledged the game as its own thing. Yoshi's Panel Attack would have been better. NoA was incompetent even back in the 90's.

 

[MasterRosie]

About having Lip in Smash, would anyone else feel a bit disheartened to have to fight her?
Having to fight someone like Isabelle would make me wince, but having to send Lip flying away into the distance? I don’t know if I could get myself to do it to her.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Eh.. I would not worry about it too much. We got cute **** to beat up in this game like Isabelle. :L

 

[MasterRosie]

I know....It’s just that Star KO’s are a thing...
And having to hear Lip scream like that would still hurt my heart...ugh.

 

[StarDustStorm]

The worst thing they did to Panel de Pon was not change the characters but call it Tetris Attack. What the hell does that even mean? Were the localizers that boneheaded that they saw the original was a puzzle game and thought of Tetris and figured that was a genius move to call it that? Legally, they can't re-release the game for those who liked the Yoshi aesthetic and on top of that, the fairies are more or less dead with no future. The Tetris Company founder even regretted allowing them to rebrand it with the Tetris name and acknowledged the game as its own thing. Yoshi's Panel Attack would have been better. NoA was incompetent even back in the 90's.

Even re-releasing Tetris Attack today would probably dilute the Tetris brand again so they can never re-release the game again. The only time I can see them re-releasing the game again is if the series is in good health and they now uses the fairies again even outside of Japan. I know he wants the IP to be able to stand on its own.
Using a Pokemon or Yoshi woudln't make the series be made as its own thing since a spin-off will come off to mind, and wouldn't get as much attention considering the saturation of Pokemon and Mario games available for people to play. RPG and Platformers are the first thing that comes to mind with a Pokemon or Yoshi game or else people will think its a spin-off.
Reskinning Puyo Puyo to Mean Bean Machine pretty much considered a Sonic spin-off, and it wasn't as hit hard since the 2000s Sonic games were hit with backlash during that time. Puyo Pop back when it was localized didn't sell pretty well due to games like GTA.
Whenever I look at Dr. Mario review scores, I noticed the ratings are either average or below average. I think it has to due with the lack of innovation to the formula plus Puyo Puyo does better than that series. I don't hear much about Dr. Mario whenever a new release comes out.