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The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

NukeA6

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I thought you were exaggerating on the large, long-running series part but it turns out that she has has more than 6 games and her last "game" was only two years ago. Sure looks like she has more reason to become a playable character than a good portion of the roster but the only thing against her is Sakurai claiming the newcomers will be based on the Smash Ballot that nobody knows the results of.

I'm more than satisfied with Ridley, all of the characters returning, and all that Castlevania content but at the same time, I kinda want my brief return in Smash Boards to end with Lip finally appearing Smash Bros the way she's supposed to be. It'd be nice to have a 12 year old wish come true but if it doesn't well, Geno and Shantae still exist.
 

pholtos

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Add me as a supporter, been a huge fan of the panel de pon style of puzzle game. Wouldn't mind seeing Lip in the game, she's pretty dorb.
 
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N. Onymous

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I thought you were exaggerating on the large, long-running series part but it turns out that she has has more than 6 games and her last "game" was only two years ago. Sure looks like she has more reason to become a playable character than a good portion of the roster but the only thing against her is Sakurai claiming the newcomers will be based on the Smash Ballot that nobody knows the results of.
Only K. Rool is explicitly a ballot addition so far. While some other characters who are in Ultimate undoubtedly did well on the ballot, not everyone is going to be a popular vote winner. Just look at Daisy.
 

Souldin

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Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm surprised others hadn't noticed that support count thread before.

Actually... out of the VAs PreCure has had so far, who do you all think could voice Lip in Smash (as well as the other fairies in PdP)?

Wow, we've certainly come a long way...
We certainly have. In fact, having had a quick skim through the Panel Popper list, I believe we actually have around 133 supporters rather than the 125 supporters we're listed as having on KMDP's thread.​

In the end, it still mostly comes down to how well she might have fared on the ballot, since it's been proven that it's been looked at. DLC is the best outcome, I feel.
The ballot is certainly having an effect on character inclusion but I feel it to be more advisory rather than a specific 'top 10' get in sort of thing. From estimates of how the characters did in the ballot, it didn't appear as if the likes of Chrom, Dark Samus or Simon Belmont were within the top 10 per say, and I believe Ridley would not have been as highly voted for due to his status as a boss in SSB4 (the ballot was seemingly pitched for DLC, rather than what it has turned out to be for, the next game). Of course, given SSB4's reaction, I believe the outcry for Ridley would have fairly obvious regardless of his ballot position.​
Ultimately, the point is how high Lip's positioning in the ballot will help, but it's not a direct competition for the top spots. Sakurai may consider adding some characters regardless of how they placed on the ballot, or consider slightly lower rated characters for reasons such as unique potential over higher rated characters and such. For instance, given the board this support has, I feel it might come as a surprise to Sakurai to see just how western support Lip has, and I believe that she'll have been fairly highly rated in specific categories (amongst Nintendo female characters, amongst puzzle characters, and amongst retro characters).​
Only K. Rool is explicitly a ballot addition so far. While some other characters who are in Ultimate undoubtedly did well on the ballot, not everyone is going to be a popular vote winner. Just look at Daisy.
It has been mentioned that Chrom and Dark Samus were added due to popular demand, but that isn't to say it's entirely to do with ballot results. As I've mentioned above, I believe the ballot to be more advisory, and not a competition of the top 10 get added sort of thing. Sakurai will likely be picking from among a big pool of the higher votes, but could choose some less voted characters over other higher voted characters for a variety of reasons. There are also some he'll choose because he's aware of demand outside of the ballot or because he simply wants to; I agree in that the ballot is unlikely to be a decisive factor in every character inclusion.​
If this board shows anything, it's that Lip has some pretty strong support, and I'm comfortable in believing that Lip will have done well enough to be amongst those considered.​
 
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smashkirby

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We certainly have. In fact, having had a quick skim through the Panel Popper list, I believe we actually have around 133 supporters rather than the 125 supporters we're listed as having on @KMDP's thread.
It's AMAZING, isn't it? I'm pretty sure that it's been said that Lip's got about a few more supporters than GENO right now. You heard me right. GENO. From Super Mario RPG.

For the record, I support Geno for Smash and I'm definitely not calling out any other supporters of his, but... we're now on a SmashBoards where LIP has more supporters (albeit by a possible measly few) than GENO, of all people.
 

Crap-Zapper

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It's AMAZING, isn't it? I'm pretty sure that it's been said that Lip's got about a few more supporters than GENO right now. You heard me right. GENO. From Super Mario RPG.

For the record, I support Geno for Smash and I'm definitely not calling out any other supporters of his, but... we're now on a SmashBoards where LIP has more supporters (albeit by a possible measly few) than GENO, of all people.
Can we all swear a blood pact that after Lip is part of the game, we make a movement for Doshin the Giant? <3


I'm obviously joking, but it does interest me how much Lip has grown, which is amazing!
 

StarDustStorm

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It's AMAZING, isn't it? I'm pretty sure that it's been said that Lip's got about a few more supporters than GENO right now. You heard me right. GENO. From Super Mario RPG.

For the record, I support Geno for Smash and I'm definitely not calling out any other supporters of his, but... we're now on a SmashBoards where LIP has more supporters (albeit by a possible measly few) than GENO, of all people.
The problem is that Smashboards and sort of 4chan are the only places where Lip is discussed, on websites like YouTube and Twitter Lip rarely pops up when looking at posts. Its not just Smashboards you have to take into account its also the internet overall. Also it takes a while for new Panel de Pon fan content to be come up on Pixiv/Nicovideo when it comes to some Japanese websites.
 

N. Onymous

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I like to think that there are more Lip supporters than we may realize, they just don't know where to go and aren't as vocal about wanting her in Smash Bros.
 

Crap-Zapper

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That's true, and I'll say the same as a guy named Masahiro Sakurai or something;

"Panel De Pon is a Master Piece, I hope more people would try it."
 

N. Onymous

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And more and more people are coming to realize that every day. I hope it'll be enough.
 

StarDustStorm

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http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...inks_of_his_appearance_in_smash_bros_ultimate
Panel de Pon very briefly mentioned in this interview.
"Maybe they will go easy on me, although I doubt it. I’m afraid I’m just not fast enough for games like Smash anymore. Too many buttons on the controller, you see. In my younger days, perhaps. Now, did I tell you about the time I defeated the designer of Panel de Pon at his own game in Tokyo? Well, the day began just like any normal day…"
 

SchAlternate

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http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...inks_of_his_appearance_in_smash_bros_ultimate
Panel de Pon very briefly mentioned in this interview.
"Maybe they will go easy on me, although I doubt it. I’m afraid I’m just not fast enough for games like Smash anymore. Too many buttons on the controller, you see. In my younger days, perhaps. Now, did I tell you about the time I defeated the designer of Panel de Pon at his own game in Tokyo? Well, the day began just like any normal day…"
Damn it, I wanted to hear that story.
 

N. Onymous

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dammit dammit dammit

someone leaked the smash ultimate demo

they're probably gonna datamine it soon

we'll know if lip is in the game or not sooner, not later

and odds are she's not
 
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smashkirby

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dammit dammit dammit

someone leaked the smash ultimate demo

they're probably gonna datamine it soon

we'll know if lip is in the game or not sooner, not later

and odds are she's not
Wait..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... WHAT???
 
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N. Onymous

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Here's a link. The leaker says he's going to keep it out of the hands of dataminers, which is good... I just hope it doesn't end up with them anyway. I don't want this series to get burned for the fourth game in a row for a reason as pants-on-head stupid as "japan-only!" (what the hell about Melee?) or "no one will recognize her!" (funny how that apparently doesn't apply to Richter).
 

ChronoBound

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dammit dammit dammit

someone leaked the smash ultimate demo

they're probably gonna datamine it soon

we'll know if lip is in the game or not sooner, not later

and odds are she's not
You sound even more negative than I do in regards to characters I want to see in, and that is saying something.

First off, this guy is probably not going to datamine the demo. Secondly, if the demo is datamine it is likely scrubbed of much of the final game content. However, if it is datamined, we will still likely learn of some new things, but it will not be a treasure trove like some are thinking.

Secondly, I consider any new Panel de Pon content in general a victory. I would personally be happy with remixes of various tracks from the game (which is why I would like to see a stage based off of the game since it would mean many remixes of Panel de Pon/Tetris Attack tracks).

Six months ago, very few thought the likes of Ridley, Simon Belmont, Daisy, Richter Belmont, Chrom, and Dark Samus had any chance to become playable in an upcoming Smash Bros. game. Most fans of those characters thought they would never end up being playable in Smash Bros., and the speculation community believed that too. Well now look where we are.

I am just as doubtful on Lip's prospects as you, but there is more to Smash than just playable representation. Look at Dark Samus. Her exposure as an Assist Trophy likely greased the skids for her to eventually become playable in Ultimate. DLC is also a possibility if Lip does not get hard deconfirmed. Look to some positives.
 

N. Onymous

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I am just as doubtful on Lip's prospects as you, but there is more to Smash than just playable representation. Look at Dark Samus. Her exposure as an Assist Trophy likely greased the skids for her to eventually become playable in Ultimate. DLC is also a possibility if Lip does not get hard deconfirmed. Look to some positives.
It's like I said: after seeing this series and its fanbase mistreated and neglected for so long, it's very, very hard not to feel jaded. If the demo does get datamined, and it turns out that Panel de Pon has no new content whatsoever and the "Ultimate" part of the game's title is a bald-faced lie, I won't be upset because Lip isn't there--at this point I'm used to being defecated on by a company who it's been alleged to me loves "all" its series--I'll be upset that it had to happen in this way.
 

ChronoBound

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I don't want this series to get burned for the fourth game in a row for a reason as pants-on-head stupid as "japan-only!" (what the hell about Melee?) or "no one will recognize her!" (funny how that apparently doesn't apply to Richter).
With in regards to Richter, while Sakurai has acknowledged that players might not know who he is (just like he said with Lip back in 2000-2001), there are a few things to keep in mind.

One is that Richter is not Japan-only. Even back during the 90's, a difficult remix of Rondo of Blood (its a different game altogether, not a port) got released for the SNES outside Japan called Castlevania: Dracula X which starred Richter as the protagonist. Richter was also a major character (and playable) in the most popular Castlevania game outside the NES/SNES classics, Symphony of the Night. Rondo of Blood proper was also remade for the PSP, and it was a very notable release for the Wii's Virtual Console (personally, I remember eagerly anticipating that game's release on the VC for years).

As for Richter being unknown compared to Simon, the thing is that the barrier to entry for Richter was a lot lower than it would normally because Richter made it in as an echo fighter. Secondly, a large part for why Richter made it in as an echo fighter was because even Sakurai acknowledged that a lot of Simon's moves were taken from Richter.

So even though many do not know who Richter is, the circumstances behind his inclusion were "special" (if you know Ultimate's Japanese title you will get this pun).

It's like I said: after seeing this series and its fanbase mistreated and neglected for so long, it's very, very hard not to feel jaded. If the demo does get datamined, and it turns out that Panel de Pon has no new content whatsoever and the "Ultimate" part of the game's title is a bald-faced lie, I won't be upset because Lip isn't there--at this point I'm used to being defecated on by a company who it's been alleged to me loves "all" its series--I'll be upset that it had to happen in this way.
The thing is though Panel de Pon is not the only Nintendo franchise with a devoted cult following that has barely any content in Smash Bros. Just look at Golden Sun and Famicom/Advance Wars. Both of those series too have barely anything in Smash Bros. (and Advance/Famicom Wars so far does not even have its Assist Trophy confirmed to return). Golden Sun's only content in Smash 4 was two songs, one of which was just a track rip from Dark Dawn.

Rhythm Heaven might be the most notable example of them all. It is a first party franchise, a massive seller (in Japan), and has had four games to date (one of which was released in the interim between Smash 4 and Ultimate), and yet still has barely any content in Smash Bros.

So it is not Panel de Pon that is being uniquely "persecuted" or "excluded". The fact is unfortunately that Panel de Pon has not had a stand alone game release for over 11 years, which definitely hurts the series in terms of gaining new content in Smash Bros. (the same goes for Famicom/Advance Wars which also has not seen a new release in over a decade).

That is why I said even additional music tracks can be seen as a victory.
 

N. Onymous

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Part of me wants a new Panel de Pon track and part of me doesn't. Does because it'd be new representation for that series and you have to take what little victories you can in this fandom, doesn't because the YouTube video upload will prove once and for all whether or not Panel de Pon has any playable representation (if it's a generic music note icon, that's it).

The leak I posted, incidentally, seems to have been confirmed a jape, so it turns out this was just me overreacting yet again.
 

N. Onymous

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Flare's theme is so good. I'd love to have it in Smash Bros, especially if it's remixed. Just picture it with real guitars...
 

NukeA6

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dammit dammit dammit

someone leaked the smash ultimate demo

they're probably gonna datamine it soon

we'll know if lip is in the game or not sooner, not later

and odds are she's not
I don't get it, would you be perfectly fine if the reveals came as a trickle? It's all gonna end the same either way. For now, it's best to keep expectations low and eliminate all chance of disappointment even if everyone here wants her playable (been waiting since 2006).

I'd rather not see you give up soon. I mean, it's because of you that I even bothered to support Lip again (also made me regret not voting for her in the Smash Ballot). When some Google Images point to this thread or that other in Smash Boards with the 100 pages, it couldn't have just brought only me. I'd be a 100% lurker if I didn't already have history with this site.
 

N. Onymous

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I've realized now that the "leaker" was most likely just taking pictures of a demo kiosk to screw with people. I'm a fairly gullible person--it's one of several flies in my ointment--so I took it at face value. I remain firm in my stance that it isn't over until she is explicitly deconfirmed.
 

N. Onymous

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Here's an interesting bit of trivia for you: apparently, the fairy characters of Panel de Pon were not designed for that game, but for a canceled project the character designer attempted beforehand. Courtesy of Japanese Wikipedia (translated):

These characters were not originally created for Panel de Pon, but for a rejected project by Muramatsu. Yamagami, upon learning about these characters, felt they could replace the likes of Mario and Yoshi [ooh er] and approached [Gunpei] Yokoi with them. Upon seeing the characters, he reportedly replied with "these?" and looked displeased at first, but ultimately approved them to be used[...]
This fascinates me, because it always seemed to me like Lip and friends are quintessential "everyman" characters on the level of...well, on the level of Mario. They don't have to be in a puzzle game to have appeal. You could put them in almost any gameplay style imaginable, from platformers to RPGs to sports to fighting games to party games to casual life sims, and they wouldn't seem out of place. Maybe all my dreams of those spinoffs weren't so far-fetched after all.
 

ChronoBound

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So Lip was originally a Mario character?

Or Lip was meant to be a big icon amongst the likes of Mario, Link, and Donkey Kong?
No, the original intention for Panel de Pon was that the protagonists would be Mario and/or Yoshi. Funny how it worked out in the end (at least outside Japan). I think even in Japan, the Game Boy version of Panel de Pon was called Yoshi's Panel de Pon.
 

zferolie

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Been a bit since I posted here. Been mostly in the Shantae thread. Still would like Lip in the game. She, Hikari and Donbe, Ayumi, and Mach Rider are the 4 possible retro characters I want the most.

Seems like a few people got worried with Lip's stick being an item, but Diddy uses a Banana Peel,and Ness uses a Home run bat. I think Lip could still be in the game using her Lip's stick item. Heck we got the launch star item when that is Rosalina's recovery, The Pikman ship item which is Olimars FS, and Black Hole with is Palutena's FS. Lip's stick does not Exclude her as a fighter.

I am curious though, has anyone seen Kirby use the Garbage Block as one of his Down B options? Any gameplay footage of that yet? Its possible Zelda;s Chest replaced that so Lip could use it as her Down B like a lot of people have suggested

As for movesets, I think Having her smash attacks place flowers like the normal Lips Stick item could work well and be a cool function of her playstyle: a Dot and set up character. Maybe her some of her Air moves could also place a flower if she sweet spots as well. Her B moves would focus on her Puzzle aspect.

B. Panel spawn. She waves her flower rod and a panel spawns next to her, damaging anyone in the spawn location. She can spawn multiple panels and they act as obstacles for enemies, having to be attacked to destroy them. Panels float in the air till they are destroyed or after some time passes, and can be used as platforms. Lip can attack with her flower rod to change the panels color, and if 3 of the same color panel are in range of each other(touching may be too difficult to always happen, so I'm saying in a short radius around each other), the panel quickly attach to each other then explode in flowers, doing damage and adding a flower to anyone caught in it.

Side B, Panel Swap. The panel swap icon appears next to her, and while she holds B she can move it for a short time in a short range around her. When she releases B She the icon rotates, reflecting projectiles in the spot, and turning around any enemies while damaging them but not flinching them. If you swap a Panel it does extra damage and the Panels turn into matching colors.

Up B: Watabou. That puff ball thing everyone else has said. Lip hangs on as it flies her into the air. Lip can press B while doing this to attack with her rod, damaging and putting/growing flowers on her head. She can also pas through any of her Panels during this move, and can change the color of the panels with her rod attacks.

Down B. Garbage Block. As others have said, this would be a good down b. She summons a garbage block slightly in front of her at Pikachu's thunder cloud hight, which after a moment come crashing down to the ground. If it hits panels it will bring them down as well, but stop after hitting 3 panels. The Garbage block stays on the ground for 3 seconds before vanishing, and can be walked on or grabbed on. Matching any panels touching the Garbage block will cause a much bigger explosion, doing a lot of damage.

Final Smash, Lip spins her rod around her, and traps anyone hit by it. She then jumps off screen as a 4 player Panel De Pon game appears. She quickly does a massive combo on her screen, filling up the the other players screen with Garbage blocks and causing them to lose, having them take massive damage and are launched off. If there are less then 3 other players trapped the other screens use other characters from Panel De Pon, Ruby and Player 3 and FLare in Player 4. If its an 8 Player smash characters are doubled or trippled up in they Player slots as needed.

If she gets a Stage, I think her flower area could work well, with the other characters in the background cheering for the fighters or doing other things. Falling platforms would be a theme on the stage.
 

NukeA6

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Now it all makes sense why Lip and her fairies haven't been showing up too much, they were all hijackers from the start. Makes me wonder if she should do some of that in Smash Bros like hi-jacking characters, Captain Ginyu style.
 

smashkirby

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Here's an interesting bit of trivia for you: apparently, the fairy characters of Panel de Pon were not designed for that game, but for a canceled project the character designer attempted beforehand. Courtesy of Japanese Wikipedia (translated):



This fascinates me, because it always seemed to me like Lip and friends are quintessential "everyman" characters on the level of...well, on the level of Mario. They don't have to be in a puzzle game to have appeal. You could put them in almost any gameplay style imaginable, from platformers to RPGs to sports to fighting games to party games to casual life sims, and they wouldn't seem out of place. Maybe all my dreams of those spinoffs weren't so far-fetched after all.
So Lip was originally a Mario character?

Or Lip was meant to be a big icon amongst the likes of Mario, Link, and Donkey Kong?
No, the original intention for Panel de Pon was that the protagonists would be Mario and/or Yoshi. Funny how it worked out in the end (at least outside Japan). I think even in Japan, the Game Boy version of Panel de Pon was called Yoshi's Panel de Pon.
Now it all makes sense why Lip and her fairies haven't been showing up too much, they were all hijackers from the start. Makes me wonder if she should do some of that in Smash Bros like hi-jacking characters, Captain Ginyu style.
My goodness...



Wow, so Lip and her friends hijacked PdP from the beginning, and Yoshi (at the very least) decided o pay her back in kind. Still want Lip for Smash, but... man, the deliciously interesting irony of it all.

Also, non-PdP/Lip for Smash related, but I'm officially 10 episodes away from the end of Smile PreCure! It's been a pretty fun ride, I have to admit!
 
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~ Valkyrie ~

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No, the original intention for Panel de Pon was that the protagonists would be Mario and/or Yoshi.





I mean, who would have ever thought'd we'd get a follow-up to the same "unexpected truth" behind Imajin and his Arab family from Doki Doki Panic?

I certainly didn't.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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So...the series has actually been soulless from the start, and it didn't reveal its true colors until Planet Puzzle League.

My God, the fairies really are unwanted. No one wants to do anything with them since they're not owned by anyone but the character designer.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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So...the series has actually been soulless from the start, and it didn't reveal its true colors until Planet Puzzle League.

My God, the fairies really are unwanted. No one wants to do anything with them since they're not owned by anyone but the character designer.
Well, at least we have that one game with squid kids that could very well been ANOTHER Mario-title and ALSO a failed attempt to be it's own thing instead of getting hijacked in the future...

In all seriousness, I don't think this is probably as "nasty" as we should be taking it. Surely this might have been the case of many other chars we've seen to this point in more successful games, among many other factors.

Besides, why not look at a rather interesting silver lining here?

Panel De Pon is still sorta walking on a weird road of being a puzzler that has been "practiced" about in various Nintendo-IPs, like Yoshi and his friends, Ash and his friends, and Animal Villagers in some isolated world of their own - and then there's not been anyone shown to do anything.

And within all those, the ongoing "mascot", the recurring character has indisputably been:











So yeah, I don't think this really... "changes" anything. In fact, it makes all of this even more interesting with case of Lip's overall conception and history to this day.


She's a de-facto "Forgotten Nintendo-character" enough to be on Captain Rainbow, but like, if she managed to stick this long around as an overall presence, being always slipped in as a tribute to this point- then that makes her the true star of the it still. I mean, since Puzzle Challenge cut content, the way Lip got thrown back has just gotten increasingly better and better (marginally, but better)





But think. We could have never seen her if things went the way they did.

The fact that she managed to win over guys who thought Mario or Yoshi were going to be better (arguably), is pretty damn impressive. And if that wasn't enough, there's apparently some devs still appreciating her enough to plant on the seeds of her presence in games she's not even appearing physically.

It tells a lot about Lip's very untapped potential, even if it's of course, laid in grave ignorance throughout the years of it. (Well, I've been kinda part of that train too., not gonna lie).
 
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zferolie

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I don't think The formula being used by other IP's reduces Lips chance. The fact that Lip's item has been in smash since Melee, BY NAME, and the music is called LIPS THEME PANEL DE PON, should be enough that Sakurai views Lip as important.

So no one has ant record of Kirby's down B having a garbage block or not?
 

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I don't think The formula being used by other IP's reduces Lips chance. The fact that Lip's item has been in smash since Melee, BY NAME, and the music is called LIPS THEME PANEL DE PON, should be enough that Sakurai views Lip as important.

So no one has ant record of Kirby's down B having a garbage block or not?
To a point, yes. The remaining obstacle is the general lack of Western knowledge about her, though it would be good if the ballot votes can finally change that.
 

zferolie

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
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AH sharp eye there. Well I suppose she could use anyone of the other garbage block designs. I don't think they were only that color right?

EDIT: I looked it up and well i guess there are other colors but Lips are all Pink... I guess her gartbage block could be one of the different shapes. There are a lot of them



I'm thinking one of the long thin ones, so it looks different from Kirby Blocks

To a point, yes. The remaining obstacle is the general lack of Western knowledge about her, though it would be good if the ballot votes can finally change that.
did she score well in the exit polls?
 
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