The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! **PETITION AVAILABLE - CHECK FIRST POST!**

N. Onymous

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I think I know exactly what you're talking about in regards to the creepy things that were posted. I may not be doing as good a job at curating this thread as I'd like, but rest assured these kinds of ideas are the exception when it comes to Lippy's fanbase and not the rule. (On the Discord server, there is a general agreement to not draw or post racy artwork or comments about the girls who are implicitly underage, Lip included. It's kinda like the Dragon Maid fandom's pact regarding Kanna.)

Honestly though, Splatoon has exactly the same problem--there's all kinds of screwed-up artwork and stories out there drawn and written not just about the characters we know are adults, but about ordinary Inklings and Octolings, characters who are canonically 14. And it can't really hide behind the "they're already post-pubescent so I'll just say they're 18 and be done with it" excuse either, since a lot of this artwork plays up their youthfulness with flat chests and baby faces abound in an obvious attempt at catering to the loli crowd. That's a problem with the internet in general. You give them a female character, any female character, any one at all, and so long as they aren't ugly in an overt, exaggerated way (see: Big Mom from One Piece)--and even then--there will be all kinds of bizarre and disturbing crap made about them, regardless of their canon age. Poor Cream. Poor, poor Cream.

And don't even get me started on Shantae.

Sure, there's a lot of disturbing Splatoon artwork out there. Panel de Pon doesn't have quite as much on account of being a lesser recognized series, but you bet it's there. I wish it wasn't, for either fandom, but I just move along and ignore it as best I can. They don't stop me from loving the gameplay and they don't stop me from adoring the character designs. And they shouldn't stop anyone else either. Ignore the crazies and do your own thing.

As for Lip being a Nintendo all-star, well, yeah, in a perfect world she absolutely would be. And still could be, if Nintendo ever decides to revisit that world. I'm not sure if a series revival should be a puzzle game though. Definitely make one or two for the sake of older fans, but the sad truth is, as much as I might want to say otherwise:

1. Most puzzle games that aren't under the Tetris name flop these days.
2. At this point, the gameplay of Panel de Pon/Puzzle League isn't and arguably cannot be linked to any one series or universe. Even Nintendo seems to view the skin as something that can be interchangably swapped out without negatively affecting its mass appeal or identity as a series. This isn't new, either, it dates back to the franchise's inception in a way.

Fortunately, putting the characters in a new gameplay environment is almost comedically simple and I'm not sure why it wasn't done earlier. Remember how earlier in the thread, it was brought up that the fairy characters were originally designed for a canceled project but found new life in Panel de Pon? The girls have charm, they have character, they have legitimate personality, which is a little impressive considering how limited the dialogue is in these games. Many of them are or could be pretty good role models for young girls even by Western standards, which is notable since we all know how Japan can be about traditional gender roles. Putting them in a different style of gameplay to what their fans may be used to would at worst not be viewed as a step down at least, and at best would give this series the kick in the pants it needs to survive, to be relevant again. Seriously. It's called a spinoff, people. Lots of games have them! Mario probably has more spinoff games than main games at this point!

I've been very vocal about pushing for a new game in the Panepon universe to be an RPG, or an action-adventure game a la Zelda, or a text-heavy platformer in the vein of Shantae. Something with a lot of dialogue. I'd love to see Lippy and the others get better characterization and become more fleshed out and recognized in their own right, instead of just being background scenery, essentially, that can be pasted over with a frog or a mouse or a dog or even nothing at all without anybody batting an eye. And something that holds appeal outside of a traditionally feminine audience--gotta get boys into it too. Show them how tough and cool a bunch of candy-colored fairies can really be!

Really, though, there are very few genres you could put the fairies in without having them not gel at least reasonably well with the gameplay. Maybe a Panel de Pon FPS wouldn't be that great. I don't know.
 
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I think I know exactly what you're talking about in regards to the creepy things that were posted. I may not be doing as good a job at curating this thread as I'd like, but rest assured these kinds of ideas are the exception when it comes to Lippy's fanbase and not the rule. (On the Discord server, there is a general agreement to not draw or post racy artwork or comments about the girls who are implicitly underage, Lip included. It's kinda like the Dragon Maid fandom's pact regarding Kanna.)

Honestly though, Splatoon has exactly the same problem--there's all kinds of screwed-up artwork and stories out there drawn and written not just about the characters we know are adults, but about ordinary Inklings and Octolings, characters who are canonically 14. And it can't really hide behind the "they're already post-pubescent so I'll just say they're 18 and be done with it" excuse either, since a lot of this artwork plays up their youthfulness with flat chests and baby faces abound in an obvious attempt at catering to the loli crowd. That's a problem with the internet in general. You give them a female character, any female character, any one at all, and so long as they aren't ugly in an overt, exaggerated way (see: Big Mom from One Piece)--and even then--there will be all kinds of bizarre and disturbing crap made about them, regardless of their canon age. Poor Cream. Poor, poor Cream.

And don't even get me started on Shantae.

Sure, there's a lot of disturbing Splatoon artwork out there. Panel de Pon doesn't have quite as much on account of being a lesser recognized series, but you bet it's there. I wish it wasn't, for either fandom, but I just move along and ignore it as best I can. They don't stop me from loving the gameplay and they don't stop me from adoring the character designs. And they shouldn't stop anyone else either. Ignore the crazies and do your own thing.
I am glad you understand.

As for Lip being a Nintendo all-star, well, yeah, in a perfect world she absolutely would be. And still could be, if Nintendo ever decides to revisit that world. I'm not sure if a series revival should be a puzzle game though. Definitely make one or two for the sake of older fans, but the sad truth is, as much as I might want to say otherwise:

1. Most puzzle games that aren't under the Tetris name flop these days.
2. At this point, the gameplay of Panel de Pon/Puzzle League isn't and arguably cannot be linked to any one series or universe. Even Nintendo seems to view the skin as something that can be interchangably swapped out without negatively affecting its mass appeal or identity as a series. This isn't new, either, it dates back to the franchise's inception in a way.
I wrote a while back that Dixie Kong is a "female Mario" (a character with an unconventional design that is very appealing across demographics due to how fun they are gameplay wise), but I think Lip very much could have been a Nintendo All-Star by being the "female Link".

By "Link" I mean she would have different incarnations of her character across her series (Panel de Pon/Puzzle League) in which her backstory and a lot of her aspects to her appearance would change. That is the same as Link. There are many different incarnations to the hero Link, and the age and appearance of each incarnation changes quite a bit, with some being a young adult to some being a child.

While not every game in the Panel de Pon series would utilize the "fairy theme", it would always have the "hero Lip" as the main protagonist in its story mode, and in general she would serve as a protagonist to each game of the series. For example, in an alternative Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, Lip would be a Pokemon trainer and her outfit would be like that of a typical Pokemon trainer (she would still keep the same hair style, with the large bow, and some sort of flower motif to her outfit). Her Pokemon would be Bulbasaur (again tying into her flower fairy origins). The other trainers/gym leaders she would battle along her journey in the story mode could similarly be other fairies turned into Pokemon trainers/gym leaders.

With this, there is a sort of flexibility to have the game sell to broader demographics, while still holding onto Lip and possibly a significant portion of the original cast.

Like in Planet Puzzle League, Lip could have been a space officer/patrolwoman, and the other fairies made into designs of other space cadets or humanoid aliens. Or in Dr. Mario & Panel de Pon, she shares a world with Dr. Mario and works as a nurse under his study. Dr. Mario and Lip would be the protagonists for two different story modes (Dr. Mario for Dr. Mario mode and Lip for Panel de Pon mode). It would make it refreshing and interesting to see what Lip's new design is going to be, and what role she will take on in the latest installment of Panel de Pon.

As a hypothetical, a Fire Emblem Panel de Pon could have been made with a story mode with a map and gameplay that mixes strategy or RPG elements into it (look at Puzzles & Dragons Z). Lip takes on the form of a typical Fire Emblem lord (a young adult to a teenager as the age range), and she has a sword that has the sword's guard have "flower petals" to it. Her design incorporating a flower motif to it (like flower earrings), with a flower being her royal house's crest (which would display at the back of her cape). Other "fairies" could be other units (they could be part of various different classes from the Fire Emblem series) she recruits by defeating them in battle.

Panel de Pon easily could have been able to "change themes" while still having Lip at the forefront, and actually have flexibility to change her design to be in tune with the theme change. Just look at how different Wind Waker's Link is from Twilight Princess's Link in appearance and tone.

Lip could have been one of Nintendo's biggest female heroes, possibly only second to Samus. Lip could have been the "brand figure" for Panel de Pon and its puzzle gameplay. Instead, Panel de Pon has a cult following, but no central identity as a series (especially outside Japan) because Nintendo simply did not know what to do with it.

There is still an opportunity for Nintendo to perform the outline I mentioned for Panel de Pon. However, in an alternative world, Lip could have been one of Nintendo's biggest heroines had they made her the "female Link".

I could have easily imagined this version of Lip being incorporated into Smash Bros. with a set of alternate costumes representing her different incarnations from different installments to Panel de Pon.

Lip could have been the "brand glue" for Panel de Pon, even if Nintendo felt the need to branch out Panel de Pon to different game worlds to expand the appeal and interest in the series. She could have easily been a Nintendo All-Star and not just a retro character with a cult following. I do not think the "fairy theme" would have gotten the series far, but I think the synergy of Lip as a flexible protagonist and Panel de Pon having a lot of crossovers and cycling themes could have made the series far more popular than it is now.

Lip without Panel de Pon (basically Lip thrown into other game genres) or Panel de Pon without Lip (as we have been seeing over the past decade) could not fully "blossom", but rather they need one another I think. Panel de Pon could have been a series where the changing worlds and themes actually worked to build a brand loyalty, and Lip could have been the driver for such a franchise making consumers and fans curious for how Lip would mold herself to fit within the context of that particular world.
 

GoodGrief741

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I am glad you understand.



I wrote a while back that Dixie Kong is a "female Mario" (a character with an unconventional design that is very appealing across demographics due to how fun they are gameplay wise), but I think Lip very much could have been a Nintendo All-Star by being the "female Link".

By "Link" I mean she would have different incarnations of her character across her series (Panel de Pon/Puzzle League) in which her backstory and a lot of her aspects to her appearance would change. That is the same as Link. There are many different incarnations to the hero Link, and the age and appearance of each incarnation changes quite a bit, with some being a young adult to some being a child.

While not every game in the Panel de Pon series would utilize the "fairy theme", it would always have the "hero Lip" as the main protagonist in its story mode, and in general she would serve as a protagonist to each game of the series. For example, in an alternative Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, Lip would be a Pokemon trainer and her outfit would be like that of a typical Pokemon trainer (she would still keep the same hair style, with the large bow, and some sort of flower motif to her outfit). Her Pokemon would be Bulbasaur (again tying into her flower fairy origins). The other trainers/gym leaders she would battle along her journey in the story mode could similarly be other fairies turned into Pokemon trainers/gym leaders.

With this, there is a sort of flexibility to have the game sell to broader demographics, while still holding onto Lip and possibly a significant portion of the original cast.

Like in Planet Puzzle League, Lip could have been a space officer/patrolwoman, and the other fairies made into designs of other space cadets or humanoid aliens. Or in Dr. Mario & Panel de Pon, she shares a world with Dr. Mario and works as a nurse under his study. Dr. Mario and Lip would be the protagonists for two different story modes (Dr. Mario for Dr. Mario mode and Lip for Panel de Pon mode). It would make it refreshing and interesting to see what Lip's new design is going to be, and what role she will take on in the latest installment of Panel de Pon.

As a hypothetical, a Fire Emblem Panel de Pon could have been made with a story mode with a map and gameplay that mixes strategy or RPG elements into it (look at Puzzles & Dragons Z). Lip takes on the form of a typical Fire Emblem lord (a young adult to a teenager as the age range), and she has a sword that has the sword's guard have "flower petals" to it. Her design incorporating a flower motif to it (like flower earrings), with a flower being her royal house's crest (which would display at the back of her cape). Other "fairies" could be other units (they could be part of various different classes from the Fire Emblem series) she recruits by defeating them in battle.

Panel de Pon easily could have been able to "change themes" while still having Lip at the forefront, and actually have flexibility to change her design to be in tune with the theme change. Just look at how different Wind Waker's Link is from Twilight Princess's Link in appearance and tone.

Lip could have been one of Nintendo's biggest female heroes, possibly only second to Samus. Lip could have been the "brand figure" for Panel de Pon and its puzzle gameplay. Instead, Panel de Pon has a cult following, but no central identity as a series (especially outside Japan) because Nintendo simply did not know what to do with it.

There is still an opportunity for Nintendo to perform the outline I mentioned for Panel de Pon. However, in an alternative world, Lip could have been one of Nintendo's biggest heroines had they made her the "female Link".

I could have easily imagined this version of Lip being incorporated into Smash Bros. with a set of alternate costumes representing her different incarnations from different installments to Panel de Pon.

Lip could have been the "brand glue" for Panel de Pon, even if Nintendo felt the need to branch out Panel de Pon to different game worlds to expand the appeal and interest in the series. She could have easily been a Nintendo All-Star and not just a retro character with a cult following. I do not think the "fairy theme" would have gotten the series far, but I think the synergy of Lip as a flexible protagonist and Panel de Pon having a lot of crossovers and cycling themes could have made the series far more popular than it is now.

Lip without Panel de Pon (basically Lip thrown into other game genres) or Panel de Pon without Lip (as we have been seeing over the past decade) could not fully "blossom", but rather they need one another I think. Panel de Pon could have been a series where the changing worlds and themes actually worked to build a brand loyalty, and Lip could have been the driver for such a franchise making consumers and fans curious for how Lip would mold herself to fit within the context of that particular world.
Ah, wouldn’t this timeline have been wonderful...
 

N. Onymous

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Very nice write-up! That's an interesting idea. Personally I like the setting, themes, and art style of Panel de Pon too much to really be interested in that--I'd love to see an action-RPG-type spinoff in the original setting come out one of these days--but it's a really nice thought. I think the series should just stick to its guns and keep the fairy setting if it wants to have any kind of specific identity, and I'd argue that's key. Not having an identity is what's responsible for this long, horrendous drought after all.

(Maybe I'm just a little averse to the idea because it reminds me too much of fellow franchise-killer Days of Ruin.)
 
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Taigiry

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I figured I should actually comment on the above import as it's pretty outdated by now. It's actually fully textured, I just can't get them to work for whatever reason, still trying to figure it out. The model itself started life as an edit of the Ultimate Mii costume, but due to polygon limits, only the head and hair survived from there, the rest is either new or repurposed from an lower-poly model. And even then, I had to shave off quite a few polygons (as in, ~50%-75%).

It's also mostly rigged by now. Not seen here is that she has an actual modeled mouth, instead of just a flat texture, that's why it's not visible here.

So while I don't know when it will be done (it depends on when I can figure out the texture issue), everything is done and (mostly) ready for import. Just gotta tidy up the rigging a bit, which won't take long at all, due to her being relatively low poly. Also before I forget, she's over Mario (and every character Mario can replace), making her a medium sized character. I would've gone with small, but sadly there aren't any good small humanoid characters she could fit over, so medium was the best choice. I might make a small tweak to her that she's a lightweight though. Also once she's done, I'll move on to other characters, I already have quite a few MK8 imports planned.

Also thanks to N. Onymous N. Onymous for keeping quite while I worked on it in the background.
 

Laniv

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What do you think her Punch Out title and classic route be?
Boxing Ring Title: The Flower Fairy of Popples

Classic Mode Title: Panel Popping Panic!!

Stage 1: vs. :ultyoshi: and :ultpikachu: on Brawl Yoshi's Island (Payback Time ;))
Stage 2: vs. dark green :ultvillagerf: on Smashville (reference to Thiana)
Stage 3: vs. :ultgreninja: on Kalos Pokemon League (reference to Elias)
Stage 4: vs. red :ultzelda: on Bridge of Eldin (Flare)
Stage 5: vs. :ultrosalina: on Mario Galaxy (Seren)
Stage 6: vs Rathalos (Dragon)
Bonus Stage
Final Round: vs. Giant :ultpalutena: on Omega Reset Bomb Forest (Cordelia)
 
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Shoot, I completely forgot yesterday was International Women's Day. I would have drawn something if I knew. Oh well. Have this.

View attachment 197335

Someday I'll have the programming experience to make this a reality and not just a mockup...
This looks actually pretty amazing.

And it would look fun as its own game for sure.
 

N. Onymous

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Woah, that looks awesome! Why a cactus, I wonder... A desert fairy stage maybe?
It's supposed to be an Old West kind of setting. There aren't many ways you can really convey that with a top-down art style and the Game Boy Color's graphical limitations, but I feel like it's good for what it is.
 

Luigifan18

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Shoot, I completely forgot yesterday was International Women's Day. I would have drawn something if I knew. Oh well. Have this.

View attachment 197335

Someday I'll have the programming experience to make this a reality and not just a mockup...
Is this a mock-up of Lip inserted into an existing game, or a completely new thing?
 

Chinderblock

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You know, I never really checked. What specific company develops the games? I know Nintendo fully owns the series, but that doesn't necessarily mean any of their parts actually develop it.
 

GoodGrief741

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Aren't they fully owned by Nintendo?
It's weird, from what I gather they're like HAL in that they're not actually owned by Nintendo, but do work nearly exclusively for them (of their titles, all of them are Nintendo-owned, even the ones they created, except for a single Dragon Quest spinoff for DSiWare).
 

Chinderblock

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It's weird, from what I gather they're like HAL in that they're not actually owned by Nintendo, but do work nearly exclusively for them (of their titles, all of them are Nintendo-owned, even the ones they created, except for a single Dragon Quest spinoff for DSiWare).
Or you could say they're like GameFreak for another good example.

Makes sense. They're more of a 3rd party company who doesn't really make games outside of Nintendo games often. Nintendo might own some of IS' stock, though?
 

GoodGrief741

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Or you could say they're like GameFreak for another good example.

Makes sense. They're more of a 3rd party company who doesn't really make games outside of Nintendo games often. Nintendo might own some of IS' stock, though?
Nintendo probably owns stock in IS, though strangely I can't seem to find whether it's a majority stock. It would be weird if they didn't, as that would require a huge amount of loyalty from IS' part – both Game Freak and HAL have and continue to develop titles independently of Nintendo, but not IS.
 

Chinderblock

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Nintendo probably owns stock in IS, though strangely I can't seem to find whether it's a majority stock. It would be weird if they didn't, as that would require a huge amount of loyalty from IS' part – both Game Freak and HAL have and continue to develop titles independently of Nintendo, but not IS.
Well, it is Japan. Brand loyalty is normal. But yeah, having some stock seems likely.
 

N. Onymous

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I'm pretty sure Intelligent Systems is a second-party subsidiary. They also work on Nintendo's hardware. I'm pretty sure they're responsible for Miis.
 

J04KlM

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Hey all, it's been a while. Just wanted to let you all know that I finally got around to finishing my Super Lip 64 mod, everything works perfectly as it should. I have released the patch file for it, you can get the download link for the patch in the video description here:

Just to give you an idea on how she looks now compared to before:
Lip Before And After.png

I think she's turned out great! Hope you all enjoy the mod. I might update it in the future by adding facial expressions maybe, and possibly even trying to attempt my own N64-esque Lip model. But MrPr1993 did such a good job capturing the N64 feel with his model already I feel!
 
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