The downfall of Smash Bros

[spike9407]

From reading the first page I can tell you that people will always rate characters unless each character is the exact same.

 

[RDK]

Maybe you suck at the game, but beating a lv 9 cpu isn't hard.

*searches for a point in this post* ...nope, there doesn't seem to be one. What are you trying to say?

I don't see where he says a LV9 CPU isn't. You said some random stuff about beating LV9 Falco's and how you were using it to measure how good or bad a character is by how long you took before you could beat one (hint: CPUs get hit by smashes very easily), and he's being sarcastic.

Beating level 9 anything's doesn't AT ALL prove how good or bad you are when thrown against a real, competitive opponent. I don't see why you keep bringing this point up, nab...

 

[Repryx]

DFifferent Chracters Have different Strengths to Balance their weaknesses Such as Falco, Poor recovery:High Jump; Samus, Floaty:High Aerial Priority;Sheik, Low Priority:Fast Attacks; Peach, Weak Attacks:D-smash. It all depends on Your willingness to Discover them.


BTW I've Never Played as Bowser Due to a Personal Vendetta Where I was 3 and couldnt get past World 1-4 But thats a different story.

 

[Dotcom]

I can use the word I like now:
Idiocy.

 

[Black Waltz]

Off topic: Haha, I love watching this nab get bashed.

On topic: If you don't like Smash, then STOP PLAYING IT. Oh yeah, and stop johning.

 

[wordman]

The game would be boring if it was completely balanced. then there would be know counters for anyone and know tatics for certain players which makes it boring. and im sure bowser could beat alot of players he jus probably takes alot more practice with to perfect to other players ability with other characters

Throw me 2 cents in. I do believe though some characters were made crap on purpose. But just like when people try to make things better but only to make it worse. It is the other way around in some games.--You ever heard before that "this game is so broken it's balanced", from somebody? Look at how they tried to fix the balance issues over the years in the marvel games. Made mvc2 (extremely broken) and yet every character has some stupid infinite that can kill you in the right players hands. It's not tiers but advantages, and nobody can't argue that. Let me end this: Timeline Order

Scrub plays smash->Likes Playing Smash->Scrub Tries Every Character on Game->Practices->Scrub finds Character that fits Scrub->Practices->Beats other scrubs->Goes on internet->Scrub stumbles into the competitive scene->Scrub Sees Tier List-> Scrub says "WTH?!!, Yoshi isn't the best--oh, well I'm already good with him-I'll keep playing him."->Gets beat by top players at a tourney->Scrub Shows Respect->Scrub Refines mindgames and skills->Changes into a Beast->Goes back plays same players with same character->Still loses but sees results->Gets in 6th place->Beast repeats process->End Result=Chu Dat/KDJ/Bum/Gimpyfish/Captain Jack

 

[RDK]

Yes, MVC2 was a fun game, despite that infinite kill combo crap used by Wolverine players and the like...

Those cheap glitching *******s online ruined it for me...

 

[pikachun00b7]

I hate Balance! I love the fact that Pika is heavily disadvantaged! Do you know the look at your opponents face when you own them with a crappy char? It all evens out.

 

[Anther]

Pika is unfairly advantaged actually. But keep it a secret k???? :o

 

[RDK]

I hate Balance! I love the fact that Pika is heavily disadvantaged! Do you know the look at your opponents face when you own them with a crappy char? It all evens out.

Lol, that's one of the few reasons I used to main Kirby...he's an extremely low tier character, and it was funny to see people's reactions when you owned them.

But it's just too hard to keep up with people and play as Kirby competitively...

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

4-5 characters = used a lot
another 10 characters after that used in certain situations.

Over half the cast, I'd say not that horridly unbalanced.

It's obvious from the posting in this thread that nab is new to Smash. Sure, maybe you've owned the game since it came out, but until you find this site and go to tournaments, you just clumped together with the other 6 million people who own the game but have never attempted to take it to the next step.

Your complaining about tiers now when they hardly matter for you. I'm fully confident that most tournament level players would be able to beat you with the entire cast in the game, including Bowser, which simply means you aren't at a level yet where you can make assumptions and determinations about which characters are playable and which aren't.

Thank you!!!

I keep telling this to people in the Brawl section, theres like.. fifty people there who have the same views as the thread creator.

Oh noez! tierz! dey shuldnt be in brawl!!

Sigh. Heavy, heavy sigh. All around bad examples of the human race.

 

[RDK]

Sigh. Heavy, heavy sigh. All around bad examples of the human race.

You mean like politicians and carnies?

 

[golden_leeroy]

Bowser is really cool, but since he was given literally no combos, he sucks, so he is basically useless when versing friends.

I have massive beef with that statement sir, I main Bowser, and can match up against my crewmates' Sheik and Marth winning most of the time, and we are at the same skill level.

Is this what this thread about still?<ahem> I might be a little late, oh well.

This has been a very entertaining thread to read, to say the least.

 

[Nihility]

Maybe you suck at the game, but beating a lv 9 cpu isn't hard.

Yes. I suck mucho hard. Teach me your ways please?

 

[Zodiac]

No need to get snippy.
First of all, we have no clue of how good you are until you show us.
Second, tier doesn't matter. All that matters is how well you know a character.
Third, edgeguard ftw.

tier dosnt matter....if somone fights bowser with sheik their chances are greatly increased than if they fought with mew two. tiers matter differently at different m levles of play, at the highest they matter only enough to effect your character picking choices.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I love how people always use Gimpy or Taj in the whole Bowser/MEwtwo argument. I wish you guys would shut up about it. The fact that those two are gods with those characters doesn't change the fact that those characters are absolute garbage. A great player does not make a great character.

True, every fighting game is unbalanced(except for maybe Virtua Fighter)but I'd put Smash Bros at the top(either that or just under MvC2) for most unbalanced.

 

[Speedsk8er]

A vast majority of the people who've posted in this thread are '07, and need to lurk moar.

I see wut you did thar.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

To everyone who keeps saying"OMG LOW TIERZ R GUD CUZ BUM AND TAJ R GUD WIT DEM!!".

Please just shut the hell up.You make it seem as if everyone in the intermediate smash community has the ability to make a character good.If that were the case,Taj,Bum,Chu etc. wouldn't be acknowledged for there ability to play with low tiers well because everyone can do the same.

Quit trying to make youreslf sound like professionals.You can only speak up on someones skill only if you have aquired it.That's why they get respect as players,because people acknowledge there skill insted of making comparisons to the intermediate level of the smash community.

Because the can do it,doesn't mean you can do it.

EDIT: Oops,Speedsk8ter got to it before me. >_>

 

[BigRick]

Smash is not the most unbalanced game... 3s is.

Smash is still very unbalanced though, and yes the devs should work to fix balance issues... we can't just tell em to create tiers on purpose, that would be stupid.

But knowing that Brawl will have about 30+ characters, you can already tell that the balance will be screwed up. Also it seems that many weaker chars didn't get changed a lot (Kirby/Pika for example) and others got nerfed (Fox).

And we know that nerfing is not a good thing... it's the reason why Melee is unbalanced in the first place (Old chars are nerfed and new chars that aren't battle tested are made very strong by mistake)

Most balanced fighter that I've ever played would be Gundam Wing: Endless Duel... thing is, this game only has NINE chars plus the hidden boss char that own every1 else...

Doing the same in a 30+ character game, impossible...

 

[spike9407]

I don't want 30 characters in the same tier BigRick. I want maybe 10-12 characters that would be around the same. In Melee there are about 5-7.

 

[Starzonedge]

I'm glad someone else has pointed out the noobesity in most of these posts.

So yeah, pretty much everything has been said. I just found it especially funny that he mentioned beating level 9 computers. Ha. Ha.

 

[Supreme Pie Ninja]

I love how Nab thought that all of the sarcastic posts were agreeing with him. Seriously, your arguments fail.

You join, make a topic about an age-old discussion, get (somewhat) educated replies containing good points and actual facts, you completely take EVERYTHING out of context and tell us to stop hating Bowser, then we combat you with many more pages of facts and good arguments, then you come back after pages of silence with terrible Halo references and CPU beating.

Please just shup up and deal. Fighting games are not meant to be balanced. As was mentioned a while ago (yes, I read the whole topic), the lack of balance is the most realistic part of the game. Do you think an oversized turtle with bad indigestion is going to stand any chance against a laser shooting ship piloting fox or a trained crossdressing ninja princess? If you want some illusion of "balance" then make everyone play ditto matches all the time. Or, you know, stop complaining and either get better or quit.

Smash was made as a freaking party game, so complaining about crap like this is pointless. Here's a short story for you.

Bob just bought an ice cream. He looks at it for a while, and decides that it would make a lovely hat. Then Bob complains that the ice cream is dripping on his hair.

You are just another Bob, and Bob fails.

 

[BigRick]

I don't want 30 characters in the same tier BigRick. I want maybe 10-12 characters that would be around the same. In Melee there are about 5-7.

I never said that all 30 chars should be top tier, for this to happen every1 would have to be non crappy clones of Fox, Sheik and Marth.

A ''perfectly'' balanced game could have 2-3 tiers, but have very little gap between them.

 

[golden_leeroy]

I love how Nab thought that all of the sarcastic posts were agreeing with him. Seriously, your arguments fail.

You join, make a topic about an age-old discussion, get (somewhat) educated replies containing good points and actual facts, you completely take EVERYTHING out of context and tell us to stop hating Bowser, then we combat you with many more pages of facts and good arguments, then you come back after pages of silence with terrible Halo references and CPU beating.

Please just shup up and deal. Fighting games are not meant to be balanced. As was mentioned a while ago (yes, I read the whole topic), the lack of balance is the most realistic part of the game. Do you think an oversized turtle with bad indigestion is going to stand any chance against a laser shooting ship piloting fox or a trained crossdressing ninja princess? If you want some illusion of "balance" then make everyone play ditto matches all the time. Or, you know, stop complaining and either get better or quit.

Smash was made as a freaking party game, so complaining about crap like this is pointless. Here's a short story for you.

Bob just bought an ice cream. He looks at it for a while, and decides that it would make a lovely hat. Then Bob complains that the ice cream is dripping on his hair.

You are just another Bob, and Bob fails.

Pie Ninja just owned this thread, though its been owned before

I like Bob's story, I just might sig that.

 

[Red Exodus]

I love how everyone just gives up on love tiers. Just the other day I got bored with Fox, Mario and Marth being my best mains, so I just say, "hey, which characters do I suck with? I'll just pick em up and surprise the **** out of everyone".

I don't have a working GC right now so the odds of me reaching pro level with these characters are zero to none but I can assure you I will kick *** [because I already have]. I chose Bowser and Yoshi as my new mains and I'm doing okay with them and I love the challenge of overcoming their glaring weaknesses.

The problem people have when choosing mains is they can't stand losing, so they just sell out and pick someone they can handle and win with. Once they overcome that dilemma they can improve exponentially.

 

[Ryuker Reo]

Sounds to me like you just don't know how to play.

 

[CWolf20]

I like the fact that nib's idea of a perfect fighter is that every character is exactly the same, but with a diffferent sprite. All have the same moves, same speed, and play the same way.

Sounds like a pretty boring game to me. If there's no variance amongst characters in a fighter, then the game will be boring.

 

[wordman]

This thread sucks. WE SHOULD ALL PLAY BROKEN GAMES!!!!! BROKEN GAMES R TEH BEST!!!

Balanced games makes wimps. Broken games turn you into a beef jerky chewin, hard farting, werewolf punching, cattle rustling, top-tier using, god-like, dark, sinister, omnipotent type guy. LETS ALL GO PLAY MORE BROKEN GAMES!!!!!111

(Simon Phoenix voice) ARE U WITH ME!!!???

 

[spike9407]

Even if each character was a different character with the same moves and speed there would still be judgment over who is the heaviest without being too big and thus a tier list. Thus a boring game that is still unbalanced. Super Smash Brothers is kind of divided into 3 groups. One group is the characters that are at least somewhat near each other in playability. In Melee it is mainly Fox, Falco, Shiek, Marth, Peach, Captain Falcon, and Ice Climbers. The next group is the decent but not good enough. Many people think that they are cool to use them because it makes them original or they just like the character. Some see potential in them. The next group is the ones that will take a lot of practice to win with. They are almost always for people that think they can make Bowser seem godlike to get recognition.

 

[wordman]

Even if each character was a different character with the same moves and speed there would still be judgment over who is the heaviest without being too big and thus a tier list. Thus a boring game that is still unbalanced. Super Smash Brothers is kind of divided into 3 groups.

There is always gonna be a worse character......but...BROKEN GAMES YEAAAHHHH!!! No sarcasm included.

 

[Supreme Pie Ninja]

Wordman, stop talking before you embarass yourself even more.

 

[HoshiPuri]

A Moderator should close this thread already! This is going no where!!!!!

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Hey, somebody finally understands.

I'll give an example: I've been training with bowser for atleast 6 months. I recently beat a level 9 falco. I also recently beat a level 9 falco by using Shiek, who I have been training with, on and off for the past month. I'll tell you, it was a lot easier with shiek.
I think every character should have good combos. If every character was a ditto, it would be the most skill based, but that would be boring. Instead, I think every character should be designed with their own powerful combos, they don't have to be the same.

Let's look at any random example, like Halo 2. You can pick Spartan, or Elite, and change their appearances. You can pick what ever appearance you like the most, and they are all equal. However, you can't do that in Smash Bros, and that's what sucks the most.

OMG HAV MAH BABIES!!!!!

This man indeed wins the internet.I just got *** ***** by a level nine the other day.I wish I could beat simple minded computers with no DI.

@HoshiPuri: You needed to use huge bold text to say that,why?

 

[Superstar]

Sure, a balanced game sounds good, would be good, but the truth is that its just plain impossible for a fighter to be fun and balanced at the same time. For the game to be fun, there has to be some variety between characters, and as its impossible to determine the effects of the variety in the future, imbalances occur. The tier list was not made by Nintendo, but by people getting into the game's inner workings.

The more characters there are, the more likely a game will be unbalanced. You can't expect like 40 characters and hope the game is balanced, its impossible. Its too difficult a job for the developers, who can't tell which way the future metagame will go.

There is a tier list, and you can't change it. However, at your level of play, tiers list don't matter as much, except maybe Shiek. Looking at lower levels of play, Fox is practically useless, and Sheik rules. You say the game is easier with Sheik, but if you try Fox, you will notice that Sheik seems tougher, as Fox is DIFFICULY to control.

I would suggest to ignore the tier list, and play a character cause you enjoy them, not just for their looks but for their feel of control. Wishing I could go to a tournament [no transportation, strict parents, etc], I main Mario, and second Fox, Pikachu, and Samus.

And Eternal phoenix Fire is using sarcasm, if you didn't notice [I HOPE its sarcasm...]

 

[Banks]

this guys sounds like a rager

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

And Eternal phoenix Fire is using sarcasm, if you didn't notice [I HOPE its sarcasm...]

Of course i'm using sarcasm. ^^

 

[Sensai]

^^^

I hope he's NOT using sarcasm.

(see what I did there?)

 

[cubaisdeath]

I can't even think of a perfectly balanced fighter....oh yeah, there IS NONE. I love smash, its one of my favorite games of all times. I play plenty of fighters to know that tier listings are tier listings for a reason. Sure, Bowser may not be as good or as cool as you like, deal with it. I loved Roy, then I looked at the tier listings and got depressed that Roy was so low. Then, I started playing at a higher level of play, and realized that tier listings just really determine matchup, and how good the player is. take this for example. Roy Vs. Fox. Low Tier Vs. High Tier. Who will win by default? Thats where you would say "FOX!! DUH NOOB" Umm, Wrong bro. Roy is a beast, look at Zel's (its in one of my threads, look it up later). Bowser is one of my favorite nintendo villains, and it kinda does suck that hes not as good as people hoped. But you have to realize, the developers made the characters a certain way, the way they wanted the game to be played. Us, the players, are what made the game the way it is today, with all the exploits and advanced techniques. Thats how tier listing is truely developed. I'm sure they were like, well, bowser is the big bad guy, we can't give him too much speed, because we have to make him strong. Trust me, it has purpose.

 

[defsithe]

^^^

I hope he's NOT using sarcasm.

(see what I did there?)

this made me lol. either way pointless thread like the many others before

 

[Kalypso]

No fighting games are created to be played in tournaments.They are made to be played 'casually,' in the case of Street Fighter in Arcades, in the case of Smash Bros in 'party mode.' Because these games weren't balanced for tournaments, they don't end up balanced when played in tournaments, or competitively.

Does bowser suck compared to some other characters? Yes.
Does that mean you can't use him? Absolutely not.
Does that mean the game sucks? Are you ****ing stupid... NO.

The 'most balanced' game is. most of the time, the most boring. Even a game like Chess, where it's 'perfectly balanced' is completely imbalanced by the fact that one player gets the first turn, it completely changes the game and 'imbalances' it. In video games, innovation increase generally decreases balance, so after you innovate a game you have to go back and balance it out. Most games don't do that. Because they're not made for tournaments.

If you think smash is ruined because you can't play bowser, 3 things.

1) You just suck with bowser
2) You're saying a game is ruined because some characters are bad? PLAY IT WITH THE CHARACTERS THAT AREN'T. You like Ganon and Fox, they don't 'suck.'
3) Games are not made to personally cader to your every preference, deal with it.