The DK Match-Up Discussion

[Ryu Myuutsu]

How about DK against Shulk?

Just faced one online, he was good. Really good.
I'm a good player but he made me look like an amateur. I probably should've switched to another character but I stuck with DK.
Shulk's range is godly, DK has nothing on that, and the guy I was playing against did a superb use of his Arts; using Speed to Pivot Grab me, I was able to mitigate some of his attempts with Utilt, and also chasing me off the stage with Jump and pretty much push me into the blast zone. And DK's heavy weight isn't much of an advantage against his Smash art.
Hand Slap isn't much against him, if he shielded he would merely jump before the slap would break his shield and nail me with that incredible range.

I was only able to win one match, on the rest I was barely able to stock him once. Man, I feel so stupid. That really hurt my pride as a Smash player. I felt so bad that after the guy left and another rival came, I lost the will to fight and helpless lost to him.

 

[Daxter]

Mario can decimate DK; his fireballs are almost guaranteed to hit, he can juggle him to 70% with his Up-Air alone, no matter how much you try to shift/dodge out of it, and his meteor smash works easier if it hits.

 

[Meek Moths]

I was only able to win one match, on the rest I was barely able to stock him once. Man, I feel so stupid. That really hurt my pride as a Smash player. I felt so bad that after the guy left and another rival came, I lost the will to fight and helpless lost to him.

L O L
O
L

 

[Big O]

@ Ryu Myuutsu

The most annoying thing about Shulk to me is his ridiculous Down B 3 (power vision). Being able to KO you at 0% if you ever punch him is just silly. In FG mode, you don't have to worry about that though.

I think your best bet is to focus on getting him offstage so you can edgeguard and gimp him. His Up B doesn't grab the ledge until the end of his first swing, so you can hit him out of it with good spacing/timing. Just be wary of random counters if you get too predictable chasing him offstage.

Getting him above you is the next best thing to do if you can't get him offstage. His Dair is slow and all of his aerials take forever to complete, which makes him susceptible to juggle traps.

His smash attacks are punishable on block, even at long range, with dash attack or Down B. If you are close you can grab him after the first hit of his Fsmash, or just spot dodge into w/e. If you block a Dsmash up close, just jump and do w/e you want unless he is in Buster form. It is harder to punish him on block in Buster form, and easier to punish him on block in Smash/Speed/Shield forms.

When you are in a bad position offstage, you have to mix up how you recover. If you see him being very aggressive chasing you offstage, you can land on the stage instead of trying to get to the ledge. Your speed with Up B in the air usually makes them take longer to get back to the stage than you. So you can Up B over/under them, pass them, and land on the stage before they can punish your landing. You have a very flexible horizontal recovery.

 

[Jmex]

I want to get peoples opinion on this as i've been struggling to come to a conclusive answer. Obviously this will become much clearer as the metagame evolves and more matches are played but i wanted more opinions.

Regarding the DK vs Diddy matchup, i feel DK loses due to two primary things. The banana, and the grab combos. There are many valid points as far as what may or may not be difficult for Dk in this match up but that's my 2 cents. With Diddy receiving no huge nerf from brawl with the exception of his recovery, i dont feel like this matchup has changed that much from Brawl.

My question is, if Diddy's recovery can be exploited with DK's nair, back air off stage. In theory, each time Diddy is off stage that should spell death. Obviously this is easier said than done, but i feel like Dk's cargo mechanic helps getting him off stage. I'm just curious if our Nair has priority over Diddy's recovery, specifically his UpB or does it go through it?

 

[Brickbox]

I feel the match up is in diddys favor just because of how easily diddy can kill.

Racking up damage is easy for diddy but that usually isn't a problem for dk since he can live longer and no longer get combo'd at high percents.
Problem is diddy can easily kill with up air and it is really hard to avoid because dk is a big target with a bad air dodge.

As far as diddys recovery, diddy will rarely use up b but instead most likely use side b and stay generally safe. I think on paper diddy is very gimpable but in game I have trouble, diddys are good at being unpredictable with it I guess.

This match sucks because diddy can kill so easily.

 

[Jmex]

I feel the match up is in diddys favor just because of how easily diddy can kill.

Racking up damage is easy for diddy but that usually isn't a problem for dk since he can live longer and no longer get combo'd at high percents.
Problem is diddy can easily kill with up air and it is really hard to avoid because dk is a big target with a bad air dodge.

As far as diddys recovery, diddy will rarely use up b but instead most likely use side b and stay generally safe. I think on paper diddy is very gimpable but in game I have trouble, diddys are good at being unpredictable with it I guess.

This match sucks because diddy can kill so easily.

That makes sense. I guess it just goes back to what the majority of people that hate Diddy are saying. If his down throw up air combo gets nerfed. Or at least the up air itself gets a knockback and or damage decrease, he wouldn't be as much of a pain in a ass.

 

[GanonMaster]

Diddy is hella hard...

also, I noticed throwcombos are super effective on dk in general...

so here are the mu's I've played online this far, I've played some offline matches, but I was playing like **** rofl and didn't feel like I learned too much from them!:

Ness: He beats you in the air and bthrow kills on 130%-ish percent. His pkfires are punishable tho and upb oos work on most grounded approaches! I would say Ness has a decent advantage!

Dr. Mario: One grab often leads to you getting past 50/60 %, so in general you play most of this mu with high percent. When his stupid low percent combos stop working this mu is very doable, and he is supereasy to gimp. pretty even mu!

Rosalina&Luma: she beats you in the air, and she is very hard to approach when Luma is out. Also, uair is superscary! A slight advantage to her when you get used to fighting Luma!

Wii Fit Trainer: if you are better than your opponent, you should win this. I don't think any attacks aside from charged punch kills charged solar projectile, so don't challenge it!

Palutena: Very annoying mu since she can throw you and hit you with nair/uair. other than that tho this my seems doable. slight advantage for her!

C. Falcon: annoying mu! Falcons speed makes every mistake you make very punishable, also; uair juggles you forever! Gimps are very doable on him tho. Falcon has a good advantage in this mu I'd say!

Ganon: LOL Ganon. If you have somewhat working reactiontimes you should be able to counter all of his approaches! I'd say DK has a good advantage in this mu!

 

[Chief Chili]

I feel like any character that has a throw combo, especially one that can kill (Diddy with up air, ZSS with up air/up b) have some sort of advantage over DK.

Rosalina and Luma doesn't seem that bad anymore. Maybe it's because of the nerfs or change to vectoring. Or I guess maybe I haven't been playing many good Rosalina's anymore.

 

[Jmex]

Dr. Mario: One grab often leads to you getting past 50/60 %, so in general you play most of this mu with high percent. When his stupid low percent combos stop working this mu is very doable, and he is supereasy to gimp. pretty even mu!

Unless i've been playing against some bad Marios. I've always been able to escape Dr and regular Marios up tilt combos using DK's up b in the air.

 

[GanonMaster]

well, then it is bad Marios I think, I've tried that but never succeeded. May just be me being a bad DK tho xD

 

[TastyCarcass]

I just played at a tournament and stuck to Diddy the whole way through. I got to the semi finals and was placed against a Zelda, and I noticed how good she actually is now.

Her side b is easily dodgeable, but her new down b is a literal wall against all of DK's approaches. She can just throw that out when she sees you're getting too close and then throw more side bs at you.

The absolute worse thing about her is her up b, which is incredibly quick, can be performed out of shield and combos into itself. The hitbox of the escape is a fairly large explosion, and while in PM and Melee I would move to the place she would appear to get a punish, I found myself running away.

I'd say this is her worst matchup, as Zelda is a complete keep away character. A possible counter is to pick stages with multiple moving platforms or situations to prevent her from camping, such as Isle Delphino, Town and City and Skyloft.

Donkey Kong's bad matchups in general for me are against ones who can't be edgeguarded very well.

 

[Chief Chili]

I played a good Marth in tournament at Xanadu and had trouble in the neutral game. Marth can space fairs and down tilts to make them safe on block and wall me out. Couple that with Marth's disjoints I feel DK may have trouble landing hits. Any suggestions? I feel like this matchup shouldn't be bad. I just need more experience.

 

[TastyCarcass]

You have disjoints to that are of the same size in your tilts. Marth is kinda slow too, very vulnerable to edgeguarding.

 

[gamma1]

Yeah marth and DK funny enough play a similar spacing game. Just be careful of Marth countering you while DK tries to recover. I find the matchup annoying, but doable.

 

[Chief Chili]

So I should stick to trying to out space Marth and getting him off stage? I find it hard to believe that DK has disjoints that are of the same size as Marth. Out spacing him seems difficult as Marth has faster attacks with better aerial mobility and has maximum reward from spacing due to tippers. As far as I know DK doesn't have any safe aerial moves besides a very well spaced back air or cross up nair. This limits DK's options to being mostly grounded with tilts and up b I assume. I guess I should work on approaching with tilts and instant blocking. With no grab armor or crouch cancelling this match up seems different than in melee/pm. Thanks for the replies.

@ gamma1 yeah you're right I got edgeguarded by Marth's counter a few times. It's a very good option against DK's up b when he's recovering.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

You shouldn't have trouble against Marths. They can be annoying, but no reason you should lose 3 out of 10 times facing one, marth IMO is a lower tier character.

 

[TastyCarcass]

his downtilt and ftilt do, none of his aerials though.

You could just run and him and up b. If he rolls, go for a down b, if he starts countering, mix it up a bit

 

[Chief Chili]

Alright cool, I'll work on that. Any tips for playing against pikachu? I was whiffing back airs as it seems pikachu can low profile DK's back air but I could be wrong. A very mobile pikachu was giving me a hard time. I feel like pikachu is underrated.

 

[TastyCarcass]

Pikachu is incredible in this game. He seems to be just as powerful as he was in Brawl and he was top tier in that game.

Be patient, and his up b isn't easily punishable since he can attack out of it pretty quickly. Use a tilt to punish since those are disjointed.

Don't bother chasing a pikachu for an edgeguard, it's not going to work. You might be able to get him with a trump though.

 

[Roager]

Pikachu's a nasty one for DK. TC's got the right idea, though. Tilts are your friend. Tilts are always your friend.

I didnt know they were that disjointed, but it does explain how they cancel projectiles so well. Is it just me, or is DK the best of the heavies at dealing with them? It's so easy and satisfying to slap a Samus missile out of the air.

Generally, I think quick characters are DK's worst matchups. They're better at baiting/punishing DK's attacks. Since DK's better at startup time than recovery frames, there's lots of opporunity for that kind of play.

 

[Ogopogo]

Anyone with autocombos (like ness), good projectiles/camp game (like dhd) and who can keep him up in the air (like g&w) will be tough to fight as DK.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Diddy really messes up DK. There's not much you can do against Up throw Up air and Banana Peel. You can't land freely and as soon as you land he can start throwing you up and repeating the same pattern over and over until you die. The safest thing you can try and do is ledge grab to regain composure or hope he misses a grab and you can try and start something. Luckily DK gimps Diddy fairly well.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Actually game and watch is not too bad compared to characters like ness, diddy, or king dedede. Against great dedede players I have issues with Dk, but I haven't had the chance to play a lot recently. But ness of all characters is the most impossible to overcome, because of his ****ing kp fire. If anyone had hints on how to deal with it (without shielding and getting grabbed and chained to death) please throw some ideas out there.

 

[meleebrawler]

You powershield it, or sidestep it.
Not hard to do if he uses it a lot.

 

[crashbfan]

It hasn't been discussed that much, so I just want to ask. What's the status of the DK-Little Mac matchup? I used to think it was even and possibly in DK's favor but there did show up an aerial combo on DK that little mac can do with footstooling. Also I'm not sure if cargoing Little Mac off the stage is even that useful given that DK would have trouble recovering from it as well.

 

[Gloman600]

not too many noticeably bad match ups i lose a lot to bowser jr and ganondorf for some reason
I like to play DK rushing down but most match ups you cant do that have to play defensive and see what they do if they camp, you can bring them to you by charging your punch

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

It hasn't been discussed that much, so I just want to ask. What's the status of the DK-Little Mac matchup? I used to think it was even and possibly in DK's favor but there did show up an aerial combo on DK that little mac can do with footstooling. Also I'm not sure if cargoing Little Mac off the stage is even that useful given that DK would have trouble recovering from it as well.

This matchup is incredibly difficult for both sides. That Little Mac aerial combo is way too situational to perform consistently, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Both characters have an extremely bad time when they're in the air and trying to land. DK doesn't have many options to get back on stage when Little Mac is zooming around Up Smashing everywhere, so your best bet is zigzagging, grabbing the ledge and avoiding Dash Attack, only punishing if you know you can hit it, otherwise you're eating a jab combo.
If DK manages to get Little Mac in the air, you need to press the advantage and keep him in the air, remembering to bait out Counters and air dodges and push him towards to edges of the screen with Nair, Bair and Uair, and if he fast falls Cargo Holding him towards the edge. Carrying him for a suicidal KO isn't as effective as one would think and often results in them footstooling you.
Also, you can use Hand Slap to catch landings and it's very effective.
Whoever gets the first hit has a huge advantage.

 

[louie g]

It hasn't been discussed that much, so I just want to ask. What's the status of the DK-Little Mac matchup? I used to think it was even and possibly in DK's favor but there did show up an aerial combo on DK that little mac can do with footstooling. Also I'm not sure if cargoing Little Mac off the stage is even that useful given that DK would have trouble recovering from it as well.

This match-up is very interesting, I find that donkey kong's Up B is extremely important in it, not only does it beat out most of mac's smash attacks in terms of super armor, but you can literally just toss him off stage, position yourself between mac and the ledge, and just Up B in front of him.

If you catch him with this method after he uses his double jump, it will just completely deny any hope of mac getting back onto the ledge, it's kind of cruel.

Also Down B really helps due to it's range, and the fact that little mac doesn't jump often! One down side to these match-ups is that mac is superb at juggling people, and donkey kong can't land very easily.

 

[Kantolin]

DK's forward tilt also solves mac dashing at you, so you can more or less backhand him across the stage if you're mindful of his smashes (This is fun to do!). DK's dash also can be used to stop mac's dash (Or generally harass him), and of course you can shield-throw him if he smashes (add up/back air to taste)

Down-B is also especially good for nudging him out of having his KO punch. It also pops him into the air, which is not where he wants to be but is where you want him to be... and then it's generally safe unless he goes jolt haymaker happy, which is a hazardous decision for him.

IMHO, the scariest macs are the ones who use tilts more than dashes or smashes as those are a lot safer for Mac to throw around, but most of the time it's all dashes and smashes.

 

[magicofexcalibur]

Any advice against custom Sheik? I noticed that she was only mentioned briefly about her specials on the first page but nothing more.

In my last tournament (in our region we're currently using customs), I managed to play straight to winners finals without losing a single match, out of almost 50 players. In that set, I was lucky if I knocked out two stocks in one match, even on Battlefield. Sheik's fairs combo into each other so hard and the hitstun is so long that I can't even use custom up+b to get out of it until a 5+ hit combo or so, when the Sheik already knows to retreat and shield. Penetrating needles makes waiting for Sheik to approach impossible, as well as her custom grenade which can throw me right into a deadly bouncing fish.

At least with all the other top tier threats, they don't have that deadly of projectiles (eg Diddy, ZSS, Luma is workable). But Sheik, dang I'm stumped!

 

[Ogopogo]

Little Mac might be DK's easiest matchup. Down b covers most stuff, and if they try to get past if you can end the move early and punish. But don't spam it obviously. Bthrow to bair is a dead mac.

 

[Brickbox]

yeah, its def a great match up. I don't really want say case closed on this though because actually good little macs don't really exist yet.
For sure a match up in our favor but I hate to take match ups for granted, nothing worse than a good player destroying you at your characters best match up.

 

[DK-RULES]

What do you mean by ending the move early? Can you cancel a ground slap in progress?

 

[Ogopogo]

What do you mean by ending the move early? Can you cancel a ground slap in progress?

No, I just mean stop pressing b earlier than he attacks in preparation for an aerial approach, WHICH will usually be counter, side b, or nair.

 

[Kantolin]

Personally, whenever I down-B for longer than 'DK pounds twice', it's usually a mistake or lag.

(Exception being when an enemy is shielding at the edge, but those are much more rare occasions and only ever work once. Very satisfying once, mind you, but once)

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I have found that holding on to down +b for more than the two iterations usually tricks ppl as they running in for a quick grab. I get them at least once every game.

 

[BJN39]

Hello Donkey Kong players! The Zelda boards have started discussion on the DK MU, and we'd love input from any DK players. ^ ^

Click Zelda to teleport to the MU thread!

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Some input as someone who fights with different characters (long so it is tagged with spoiler):

Spoiler

: Gives me a hard time since most of my moves have punishable lag at the end, requiring me to make use of my Fire and aerials. I need to rely on the DK player making mistakes to get in. Harder battle for me.

: It is easy to rack up damage and find openings, but I need to keep his tilt attacks and UP Smash in mind when approaching. Easier battle for me.

: Large hitboxes makes him easier to hit, but his range causes me to rely on aerial approaches. My light weight is what gives DK the edge. Battle depends on aerial options.

: Pretty easy since DK cannot move as fast as me and I have more getaway options due to my agility. Biggest problem is avoiding super armor when approaching from the ground and finishing him off. Grabs make this battle a little easier.

: DK is easy to combo, but the reduce in speed makes the Banana Slammer hard to avoid when being punished. DK with good reads can do wonders.

: Easy to combo DK and avoid punishes due to speed, no real obstacles in your way to win this match up. Biggest concern is approaching DK from the front when DK has good range and uses tilts.

: Not having the range advantage in her weapon does not favor, but if timed right, the counter can help. Aerials are tricky to pull off due to having to get close, but speed will help in this battle.

: Gyroid makes this match up easy, considering it comes out covering a good range and be used to set up traps. DK being easy to combo favors the Villager.

: Approaching DK is the major concern, if you can reach him and grab then you are good to go for comboing. Super Armor helps in this regard due to being resistance to Smash attacks. DK beats Ganondorf in ranging options, but is easier to engage when both of you are aerial.

: Moves that come out fast and can combo are the biggest helps in this battle. The Bike can be destroyed by one smash attack by DK and can be stopped before it does any damage due to DK's range. Approaching on the ground and your Waft is your ace in the hole here as approaching DK from above is risky due to range of DK's attacks.

 

[FullMoon]

Hi, DK mains, the Greninja boards are going to discuss the MU against DK, so it would be great if you guys could give us any sort of input: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...-bowser-2-23-3-2.369356/page-12#post-18645844

Don't wreck the place looking for bananas though.