The Dating Advice Thread

[The Real Gamer]

It's not that I haven't asked out anyone

It's that I don't meet enough girls that my statistics don't get the to the odd where I am not rejected.

How many women have you approached within the last 2 weeks?

 

[Lore]

NO STAHP WHAT ARE YOU TWO DOING

Apparently someone hasn't read my fanfics.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Apparently someone hasn't read my fanfics.

Wow. Tease.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

How many women have you approached within the last 2 weeks?

Well, none.

I guess I even had chances too

Like when I was jogging through the park with my dog I saw some cute girls.

I'm not so sure it would be appropriate at work though. I don't think girls like the cashier trying to flirt with them. Or at least that's what I hear them say that they don't like it (girls I know say that)

Edit: I get the impression I should be getting out more in order to meet girls

IDK why but for the last few years I seem to have slowly been going out LESS

 

[The Real Gamer]

Well, none.

I guess I even had chances too

Well there's your answer. Forget the idea of going on a date; you're not even giving yourself an opportunity to improve your social skills... Like I just said earlier, inaction is the result of fear. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

I'd suggest working on the basics before you try flirting (just because someone is female it doesn't mean you HAVE to flirt with them). Gotta learn to crawl before you walk, walk before you run, yada yada.

First thing I'd work on is one of the most important aspects in any form of communication - initiation. Starting a conversation can be done in multiple ways: a smile, wave, or head nod are all good non-verbal forms of initiation. "Hello/Hey/Hi," "Good morning/afternoon/etc," "How are you?" are all good examples of verbal initiation. Practice these... seriously.

You don't even need to have a full conversation. Next time you see a woman where the setting is appropriate (even work) try one of the above. Smile and say hello as you're passing by, wave to someone you might know at work, and if you're feeling confident a simple compliment like "wow you look great today" goes a long way. Most people are pretty nice by nature, by my experience at least. So don't be surprised to get a smile or "hello" back.

Keep track of how many women you're able to initiate with within the span of a week, then next week try to top that, then try to top that one, and so on. If you keep it up you're confidence will go up, and after a while you'll naturally find yourself initiating without even thinking about it.

When you start out don't get discouraged if you're struggling. Focus on the fact that you are overcoming your fears by TAKING ACTION.

If you're serious about improving then you'll do this. Otherwise I can't help you.

 

[Shadow the Past]

So, lost my friend. The one who liked me. 'Cause I'm a horrible person.

On another note, the guy I've had strong feelings for, for a while, could be slightly in reach. We've been getting a lit closer, and at one point we texted and talked for 32 hours straight, about some pretty intense stuff. And we still text and talk for like 10 hours a day. I found out, though, that his girlfriend hasn't been great to him lately and he deserves the best. He said he might end up breaking up with her soon.

Where the issue now lies is that I can't really make a move, because I don't want him to think that all our friendship was a lie and just because I wanted to get with him. I don't want to take advantage of their breakup and use that as a chance to strike.

It just sucks. The only thing in the way of me making a move was the girlfriend. Now that she'll be gone, I still can't do anything for a while.

My Awesomeness level went down with this post, huh? But i just could use some dating advice here.


This is pretty much amazing. You are my hero.

Super late reply, felt like throwing my two cents in.

The simplest advice I can give you is to make your feelings/intentions clear, or at least noticable. That doesn't necessarily mean confess your undying love to him, but more or less give small social cues of your interest. Small gradual gestures of interest (whether over text or in person) will go a long way in this case, as it will increase his returned interest in you.

One thing to keep in mind with him and the girlfriend, whether or not they stay together, is that you've gotta "respect" the girlfriend, but not "submit" to her. By respect, I mean avoid talking poorly about her, or don't throw yourself at him the second he dumps her. By not submitting, I mean don't be like "I can't even flirt with him because they're together/just broke up". This would make it seem to him that you're not interested in him (which ties in with the first paragraph), in which case he would stay focused on his current girlfriend.

Hopefully that helped, or at least made sense lol.

 

[Trick or Treat]

Super late reply, felt like throwing my two cents in.

The simplest advice I can give you is to make your feelings/intentions clear, or at least noticable. That doesn't necessarily mean confess your undying love to him, but more or less give small social cues of your interest. Small gradual gestures of interest (whether over text or in person) will go a long way in this case, as it will increase his returned interest in you.

One thing to keep in mind with him and the girlfriend, whether or not they stay together, is that you've gotta "respect" the girlfriend, but not "submit" to her. By respect, I mean avoid talking poorly about her, or don't throw yourself at him the second he dumps her. By not submitting, I mean don't be like "I can't even flirt with him because they're together/just broke up". This would make it seem to him that you're not interested in him (which ties in with the first paragraph), in which case he would stay focused on his current girlfriend.

Hopefully that helped, or at least made sense lol.

I've actually...been trying to keep them together. When he tells me things like he's upset and doesn'tfeel good enough for her, or that he doesn't want to throw their relationship away yet sometimes doesn't think it'll get better...I tell him not to give up and say that I hope it does get better. Etc.
So I'm definitely not talking badly about the girl.

I'm probably overthinking things, I'm absolutely terrified that he'll find out I have feelings for him and think that I've been talking with him only to get with him.
I know a few of you said he wouldn't thibk that but it still worries me.

 

[AAkacia]

@ PsychoIncarnate

I feel like this quote is very relevant to dating and could help you out in particular:

"Action is a great restorer and builder of confidence. Inaction is not only the result, but the cause, of fear. Perhaps the action you take will be successful; perhaps different action or adjustments will have to follow. But any action is better than no action at all."

I see a lot of people complaining about their unsuccessful dating lives, but don't anything about it out of fear (in this case fear of being alone).

I think the #1 thing that separates men who get multiple women and those that don't get any at all is confidence. Men who pull women aren't afraid of being rejected, because they constantly put themselves out there. They take ACTION. Those with poor self esteem remain stagnant and are afraid of rejection. INACTION. Dating is a skill, which means those that date more are naturally going to be better at pulling women than those who don't date all.

Or look at it this way:
Person "A" is a bad dater with high confidence, and asks out 25 women within the span of a year. This person is so bad at dating, that he gets rejected 24 times until the 25th is finally a success.
Person "B" is also a bad dater, but doesn't ask out a single woman the entire year out of fear of being rejected.

Who's the real winner here... The one who got rejected a whopping total of 24 times or the one who didn't do anything at all? Who's the one who actually scored a date? Which one is more likely to get more dates in the future?

Person A, the one who TOOK ACTION.

This was longer than I intended but I think the message is clear; fear of failure is the biggest obstacle to overcome, especially when it comes to dating.

I can attest to this from personal experience on both sides. Truth is, unless you're very close with the person, rejection isn't nearly as bad as I expected it to be. My fear came from losing meaningful relationships, and it developed into anxiety over approaching new relationships.

I've actually...been trying to keep them together. When he tells me things like he's upset and doesn'tfeel good enough for her, or that he doesn't want to throw their relationship away yet sometimes doesn't think it'll get better...I tell him not to give up and say that I hope it does get better. Etc.
So I'm definitely not talking badly about the girl.

I'm probably overthinking things, I'm absolutely terrified that he'll find out I have feelings for him and think that I've been talking with him only to get with him.
I know a few of you said he wouldn't thibk that but it still worries me.

I guess this is just where you have to trust a guy's experience that this is how guys think.

And I'm going to be redundant now but if he does think of it, he will not care. It's just how guys are. I would much rather date a girl I'm attracted to that I've been friends with for a while, than a girl that I'm simply attracted to. It's not that we don't care what the basis of our friendship is, it's that (if the attraction is there) we'd rather have a more meaningful one. Go for it.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I can attest to this from personal experience on both sides. Truth is, unless you're very close with the person, rejection isn't nearly as bad as I expected it to be. My fear came from losing meaningful relationships, and it developed into anxiety over approaching new relationships.

This is something I'm trying to work on. I'm a pretty confident and talkative dude, but whenever I'm around a girl who I think is cute and am not familiar with her I tend to get shy instead of being more forward.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I've actually...been trying to keep them together. When he tells me things like he's upset and doesn't feel good enough for her, or that he doesn't want to throw their relationship away yet sometimes doesn't think it'll get better...I tell him not to give up and say that I hope it does get better. Etc.
So I'm definitely not talking badly about the girl. I'm probably overthinking things, I'm absolutely terrified that he'll find out I have feelings for him and think that I've been talking with him only to get with him. I know a few of you said he wouldn't thibk that but it still worries me.

You can't make a rebound if you don't make a jump for the open ball.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I'm probably overthinking things, I'm absolutely terrified that he'll find out I have feelings for him and think that I've been talking with him only to get with him.
I know a few of you said he wouldn't thibk that but it still worries me.

There's no reason why he'd think that, at least not reasonably.

People interact more with people that charm them, or at least want to. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea that you've been talking to him because you fancy him that way, and it's obviously what happens naturally. That doesn't mean you've been around him with the agenda of trying to strip him away from his girlfriend, you can't help your feelings, and they steer you towards him. It's as innocent as that, you know it, he should know it. It doesn't have to even be seen from the perspective of "Guys don't think that way" or "Guys wouldn't care". And hypothetically if he did erroneously draw that conclusion about your character, then that's on him, not you. You've got to go in thinking he's better than that, considering you like the dude.

 

[Trick or Treat]

There's no reason why he'd think that, at least not reasonably.

People interact more with people that charm them, or at least want to. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea that you've been talking to him because you fancy him that way, and it's obviously what happens naturally. That doesn't mean you've been around him with the agenda of trying to strip him away from his girlfriend, you can't help your feelings, and they steer you towards him. It's as innocent as that, you know it, he should know it. It doesn't have to even be seen from the perspective of "Guys don't think that way" or "Guys wouldn't care". And hypothetically if he did erroneously draw that conclusion about your character, then that's on him, not you. You've got to go in thinking he's better than that, considering you like the dude.

I'm very insecure.

 

[JoshCube2]

I just wanted to ask; I am currently suffering from PTSD due to events that took place back when I was 18 years old. To make a long story short, people were making fun of me because I didn't have a girlfriend, and people were calling me gay on top of it. I couldn't seem to land a date because people just mainly thought I was weird, and I got laughed at a lot. I was going through a lot of depression due to this, and couldn't seem to find a way out. Many years have passed, and I can't really seem to get the same respect from anyone. Not sure what to do at this point, and I feel like I'm at a dead end. Everywhere I go, it just seems people like to humiliate me, or do verbal attacks. I've pretty much given up on making friends, or having a love life.

 

[Teran]

I just wanted to ask; I am currently suffering from PTSD due to events that took place back when I was 18 years old. To make a long story short, people were making fun of me because I didn't have a girlfriend, and people were calling me gay on top of it. I couldn't seem to land a date because people just mainly thought I was weird, and I got laughed at a lot. I was going through a lot of depression due to this, and couldn't seem to find a way out. Many years have passed, and I can't really seem to get the same respect from anyone. Not sure what to do at this point, and I feel like I'm at a dead end. Everywhere I go, it just seems people like to humiliate me, or do verbal attacks. I've pretty much given up on making friends, or having a love life.

 

[Trick or Treat]

Okay, so I've been reading some articles lately about the whole "nice guys finish last" thing, and I take back most of what I said in this thread.

Because that's pure bull****. While it's true that being more elusive and not being such a "nice guy" will help if you're just looking for something casual, it's not for those looking for more.

First off, putting labels on people and making a set of rules is stupid. Every girl is different, believe it or not, just like every guy is different. Some girls get turned off by you being a nice guy, others don't have a preference, and others actually like it. Or, many girls will like SOME of the nice guy things you do, but not others.

I'm not saying to go and put them on a pedestal like they're your favorite celebrity (unless they do the same for you), or anything, but there's nothing wrong with being the nice guy.

One of my best friends is one of the nice guys. He's one of the greatest guys I've met, and guess what? He's been with his girlfriend for over 2 years, and they're so happy together and love each other a lot. That might not sound like a long time, but keep in mind we're only 19. Obviously she's turned off by his niceness, right? I've had other friends in similar scenarios.

It's just such a joke, all these "nice guy rule books", acting like they're the answer to everything, when in fact they're not. Going by these rules might get you a lot of girls (which is what the people who make them like to advertise), but as I said it's either just for a fling or just a straight up hookup. If you want a real, meaningful relationship, then there's only one rule for you, guy or girl.

Treat people like people.

You can flirt with them, but other than that, just treat them how you'd normally treat someone. Most girls that actually want a serious relationship will respond better if you're naturally the type of person they like. Your personality, interests, hobbies, appearance, etc. Girls don't fall for a rulebook or a stereotype, they fall for a person.

 

[AAkacia]

I just wanted to ask; I am currently suffering from PTSD due to events that took place back when I was 18 years old. To make a long story short, people were making fun of me because I didn't have a girlfriend, and people were calling me gay on top of it. I couldn't seem to land a date because people just mainly thought I was weird, and I got laughed at a lot. I was going through a lot of depression due to this, and couldn't seem to find a way out. Many years have passed, and I can't really seem to get the same respect from anyone. Not sure what to do at this point, and I feel like I'm at a dead end. Everywhere I go, it just seems people like to humiliate me, or do verbal attacks. I've pretty much given up on making friends, or having a love life.

Attitude is half the battle. I was on SSRI's for several years. I know it seems like your emotions control you and they do control how you feel but they don't control how you act and the actions you partake in - especially if you consciously think about what your doing in RESPONSE to them. If you act like you don't deserve respect, and are submissive to people who humiliate you, people will continue to treat you that way. If you have an air of confidence about you, hold your head up, make eye contact, speak loud and clearly, the way people treat you will dramatically change. If the people who have in the past or present continue to attempt to humiliate you, then you stick up for yourself regardless of how they respond(if it becomes physical, even if you get your ass kicked they won't do it again - if it stays verbal and you keep your calm, don't get upset and make calculated remarks, they'll get incredibly pissed off and/or stop altogether). It's funny that by simply acting a certain way, the kind of changes your social life can undergo. Develop the habit of being aware and conscious of your mental state and what you're doing about it. If you're down, turn on some loud ass music that normally makes you happy (it's ingrained, and music written in major cheers people up by nature - much like the psychological effects of colors). If you're afraid of failure, you're thinking the wrong way. Tell yourself "I can do _____" even if you don't truly believe it. It sounds silly but I'll provide a personal example and an example of advice given to a friend and how she responded just to give you an idea of how ridiculous these kind of silly ideas can be; but they work.


I was 16 years old and I was %100 dedicated to being the best baseball pitcher possible. The year prior I had the best stats in our entire league on offense and defense. This year, my efficacy at bat had drastically decreased by over %60 because of the increased effort I put into pitching technique. My uncle had held the record at U of A and his highschool for several years running at was given at shot at the MLB. It was the only year he ever coached me, and I went to him personally and pretty much said -
- "what the **** do I DO, I can't hit ANYTHING and it's frustrating!"
- He looks at me and goes, "this is going to sound so stupid that you're probably going to laugh at me",
- I say "go for it", and he replies "when you get to the plate, just tell yourself "I'm going to knock the **** out of that ball", "It can't hurt to at least try it, even if you miss once or twice, keep telling yourself that and you WILL."

He was right, I laughed in his face. I decided to try it though. First pitch, fast ball high and inside, I step out and try to knock the **** out of that ball. I shouldn't have swung at all because had I not, the ball would have hit me. I miss. Strike 1. Next ball is a curve ball, inside; the whole time I'm at the plate all I'm thinking about is "I'm going to knock the **** out of that ball" - what do you know. I hit it to the fence in left field. I round first base and glance at my uncle, and he's just smiling and shaking his head, and I only get to second because I can't stop laughing.

It was the single best advice I have ever been given. To this day.

The next is much more recent, and happened a few months ago. My girlfriend at the time, Madi, calls me after work. She sounds like she hasn't left bed all day and probably had a rough night. We talk a bit before I bring it up. She tells me, "I don't know what it is honestly.. I just feel really sad. I miss you a lot, and I'm cutting it close on rent this month.. ."

I asked her if she trusted me, she tells me of course, and I reply "this is going to sound really ****ing dumb, but you gotta trust me and do it." She says, ".. okay". I continue on to tell her she should turn on some really overly poppy, happy music, and dance and sing to it and to call me back, then I hang up on her. She calls me back half an hour later in a wonderful mood, and was laughing while saying, "I feel so ****ing stupid ahhhhahaha".


So yeah, the advice is silly and sounds dumb and not very helpful at all but what can ya lose by trying it?

 

[Teran]

Okay, so I've been reading some articles lately about the whole "nice guys finish last" thing, and I take back most of what I said in this thread.

Because that's pure bull****. While it's true that being more elusive and not being such a "nice guy" will help if you're just looking for something casual, it's not for those looking for more.

First off, putting labels on people and making a set of rules is stupid. Every girl is different, believe it or not, just like every guy is different. Some girls get turned off by you being a nice guy, others don't have a preference, and others actually like it. Or, many girls will like SOME of the nice guy things you do, but not others.

I'm not saying to go and put them on a pedestal like they're your favorite celebrity (unless they do the same for you), or anything, but there's nothing wrong with being the nice guy.

One of my best friends is one of the nice guys. He's one of the greatest guys I've met, and guess what? He's been with his girlfriend for over 2 years, and they're so happy together and love each other a lot. That might not sound like a long time, but keep in mind we're only 19. Obviously she's turned off by his niceness, right? I've had other friends in similar scenarios.

It's just such a joke, all these "nice guy rule books", acting like they're the answer to everything, when in fact they're not. Going by these rules might get you a lot of girls (which is what the people who make them like to advertise), but as I said it's either just for a fling or just a straight up hookup. If you want a real, meaningful relationship, then there's only one rule for you, guy or girl.

Treat people like people.

You can flirt with them, but other than that, just treat them how you'd normally treat someone. Most girls that actually want a serious relationship will respond better if you're naturally the type of person they like. Your personality, interests, hobbies, appearance, etc. Girls don't fall for a rulebook or a stereotype, they fall for a person.

Liar liar pants on fire

 

[Trick or Treat]

Liar liar pants on fire

Don't you mean "plants for hire"?

 

[Teran]

Don't you mean "plants for hire"?

 

[Trick or Treat]

Those are some pretty jacked trees.

 

[AAkacia]

This is something I'm trying to work on. I'm a pretty confident and talkative dude, but whenever I'm around a girl who I think is cute and am not familiar with her I tend to get shy instead of being more forward.

Yeah. It's hard to change subtle behavioral tendencies too. What do you do that you think comes off as shy instead of forward?

(p.s. Heat>>>)

Liar liar pants on fire

Yeahhh. I kind of agree with @ Teran .

I mean, you don't have to be a complete tool to use some of the advice you're (@Envy) referring to but some of them go a long way even in a serious relationship. Some of them can/should be used occasionally/sparingly to keep the relationship/the girl interested. For instance, if you're the kind of guy who ****s around on his phone a lot in public or work at a desk where you procrastinate on your phone and maybe you from your phone like I do - if you're talking to a girl you recently met that you're interested in then maybe for the first day or first few days just respond when you see the text/texts, but later on don't. Just leave 'em hanging for a bit. In a relationship? Do the same thing. Some days, just make sure you keep a girl waiting for a while. It's seriously uncanny how ****ing good this works. If you're innately a clingy dude (that word has negative stigma, but I mean maybe you just legitimately enjoy being around your girl more often) make an effort to set aside plans with your bros and be vague about what you all are doing. Your girlfriend is out of town or you're out of town? Go ****ing party without her, don't be promiscuous, but tell her about how much fun you had. (not saying that you shouldn't party WITH her too, obviously)

This **** just works. Why? I don't know. I'm pressed to say that the 2 of my last relationships ended ultimately because I was "boring" which I probably came off as solely BECAUSE I didn't do those things. I fell back into my nice guy habits. I offered advice, and consolation anytime I even considered they might need it. I thought that maybe it was unnecessary to hold off on the text, especially since they knew I worked from my phone %100 of the time anyways. Nope.

Nice guys are boring. Even if a girl told me this **** doesn't work, I would completely disregard it because I know for a fact that it does.

@Envy, you kind of even proved the point. You had to "take back most of what you said" in this thread, before you read those articles.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

lol nice guys why is that even a category

youre boring because youre boring, not because youre nice.

there's a difference between boring and nice, believe it or not.

you can be nice and interesting.

when i was dating my first ex, i liked him because he was a nice dude who was also really interesting because we shared interests and got along really well. he was not playing hard to get or whatever, nor was he a jerk for the sake of getting girls. he was a sweet dude who just shared some mutual interests with me but still had his own unique hobbies, etc.

boyfriend is nice and i like him because our personalities mix well (hes snarky and im learning to be a total smartass thanks to him), we share interests, he has his own passions that make him happy, etc. He can be a sarcastic goober a lot of the time but he's still really nice and i like him a lot.

Idk, maybe this is just my own personal experience and im just stupid.

but see a pattern? people with interests + their own unique interests that dont necessarily match their significant other = more interesting people. like, the whole 'nice guys finish last' thing is dumb. you cant just be nice to get someone to like you. if that was the case, thatd be wayyy to easy. You have to have some semblance of a personality. Something that makes you interesting and attractive to someone else.

blah blah blah idk if im even making any sense right now i have a fever and i think i actually worried myself sick thanks to school so ignore if this doesnt make sense

 

[Trick or Treat]

Yeah. It's hard to change subtle behavioral tendencies too. What do you do that you think comes off as shy instead of forward?

(p.s. Heat>>>)



Yeahhh. I kind of agree with @ Teran .

I mean, you don't have to be a complete tool to use some of the advice you're (@Envy) referring to but some of them go a long way even in a serious relationship. Some of them can/should be used occasionally/sparingly to keep the relationship/the girl interested. For instance, if you're the kind of guy who ****s around on his phone a lot in public or work at a desk where you procrastinate on your phone and maybe you from your phone like I do - if you're talking to a girl you recently met that you're interested in then maybe for the first day or first few days just respond when you see the text/texts, but later on don't. Just leave 'em hanging for a bit. In a relationship? Do the same thing. Some days, just make sure you keep a girl waiting for a while. It's seriously uncanny how ****ing good this works. If you're innately a clingy dude (that word has negative stigma, but I mean maybe you just legitimately enjoy being around your girl more often) make an effort to set aside plans with your bros and be vague about what you all are doing. Your girlfriend is out of town or you're out of town? Go ****ing party without her, don't be promiscuous, but tell her about how much fun you had. (not saying that you shouldn't party WITH her too, obviously)

This **** just works. Why? I don't know. I'm pressed to say that the 2 of my last relationships ended ultimately because I was "boring" which I probably came off as solely BECAUSE I didn't do those things. I fell back into my nice guy habits. I offered advice, and consolation anytime I even considered they might need it. I thought that maybe it was unnecessary to hold off on the text, especially since they knew I worked from my phone %100 of the time anyways. Nope.

Nice guys are boring. Even if a girl told me this **** doesn't work, I would completely disregard it because I know for a fact that it does.

@Envy, you kind of even proved the point. You had to "take back most of what you said" in this thread, before you read those articles.

I had to take back what I said because I used to think the same way. But now I don't, because ironically, reading those articles made me feel the exact opposite.

My whole point is that there is no guideline for this. Everyone is different and will respond to different things. That's kinda just how it is.

Nice guys aren't boring if you just have that strong connection with them. I can tell you right now, none of those things you mentioned make a difference to me when looking for a guy. I want someone who I can always talk to and hang out with, have common interests and just great chemistry with. And yes, I want a so-called "nice guy".

 

[AAkacia]

I had to take back what I said because I used to think the same way. But now I don't, because ironically, reading those articles made me feel the exact opposite.

My whole point is that there is no guideline for this. Everyone is different and will respond to different things. That's kinda just how it is.

Nice guys aren't boring if you just have that strong connection with them. I can tell you right now, none of those things you mentioned make a difference to me when looking for a guy. I want someone who I can always talk to and hang out with, have common interests and just great chemistry with. And yes, I want a so-called "nice guy".

I'm not saying women consciously recognize those as things they're looking for. That'd be really low of any person to do. I'd go as far as to say that you're most likely different than the stereotypical girl judging by the fact that you consciously recognize that you want a nice guy, and as well as judging by the fact that most girls aren't spending any of their free time lurking smash boards. Lol. Your point is absolutely correct, but statistics don't lie when evaluating the psychological responses that the majority display.

lol nice guys why is that even a category

youre boring because youre boring, not because youre nice.

there's a difference between boring and nice, believe it or not.

you can be nice and interesting.

when i was dating my first ex, i liked him because he was a nice dude who was also really interesting because we shared interests and got along really well. he was not playing hard to get or whatever, nor was he a jerk for the sake of getting girls. he was a sweet dude who just shared some mutual interests with me but still had his own unique hobbies, etc.

boyfriend is nice and i like him because our personalities mix well (hes snarky and im learning to be a total smartass thanks to him), we share interests, he has his own passions that make him happy, etc. He can be a sarcastic goober a lot of the time but he's still really nice and i like him a lot.

Idk, maybe this is just my own personal experience and im just stupid.

but see a pattern? people with interests + their own unique interests that dont necessarily match their significant other = more interesting people. like, the whole 'nice guys finish last' thing is dumb. you cant just be nice to get someone to like you. if that was the case, thatd be wayyy to easy. You have to have some semblance of a personality. Something that makes you interesting and attractive to someone else.

blah blah blah idk if im even making any sense right now i have a fever and i think i actually worried myself sick thanks to school so ignore if this doesnt make sense

I'll agree that most of your points are valid, but I do believe wholeheartedly that the "nice guys finish last" thing is perfectly relevant in regards to casually dating. Why? Well, as you guys have probably noticed I usually have a personal experience to back up most of my claims. If I don't see clear-cut evidence for it, then I'm naturally a skeptic. Anyways, here goes

I'm talking to this girl who I'd known for at least a couple years, but prior to our recent affairs I wasn't too interested. This was before I got in a car accident, so at the time; I skateboard on an almost daily basis, incredibly reckless, but I work full time as well as am in my first year of college. For whatever reason ever since a year and a half before then(last relationship at the time), I hadn't developed intimate feelings for any girl I'd been with whether or not we got along and I was incredibly attracted to her, whether we shared common interests (art, and music usually peaked it for me), no matter what. So I decided to be celibate, and that I was going to abstain from sex until those feelings developed. It had been a year since this decision and the aforementioned girl and I were getting much closer than I had been with anyone in a while. Finally, I started developing intimate feelings for her. We had been "fooling around" for at least 3 weeks, when she tried to get me to have sex with her. I told her no, and that I wouldn't do it unless we were "official". I had been planning to ask her out that night anyways, so I went ahead and did it. She said no, that she didn't want anything serious. A couple more weeks go by, we're still doing the same thing and again she tries to get me to have sex with her. I tell her no, and sincerely tell her that I'm not going to do it until we're together and that I really want to be. Next thing I know, she won't talk to me and about a month goes by where I don't hear from her. I'm chillin' at home, getting ready for work when I see "blah blah is now in a relationship with blah blah". It hurt really bad. I let her know. She calls me while I'm on the way to work, and she's CRYING and apologizing for being a *****. Turns out, I skate with this dude like 3 times a week, we are in the same classes, but we have opposite personalities. The dude is a **** head. It's that simple. He was a stoner(I smoked, but not on a literal hourly basis), experimenting with drugs of different kinds, and just an all around douche. Now, I'm not saying people who are doing those things jobless are douches, but why tell someone who displays responsibility and the ability to enjoy themselves that you don't want anything serious and then get with someone obviously not going to be around for long? I tell her it's okay and that I appreciate her apology and I move on.

*2 years later*

I get a text from her letting me know that if I need a place to stay when I visit that I can sleep at her place. I immediately start laughing and make it a point to be a ****. I reply "yeah.. I don't know. I'm supposed to stay with ___ but we'll see". A week later I'm there visiting home and I get together with her to have a few drinks. She apologizes again for what she did 2 years earlier and tells me about how dumb it was, then commences to tell me how ****ing stupid her ex acted during what turned into her longest relationship. She goes on about his drug problems, and how he cheated on her once, and near the end completely treated her like ****. At this point I'm trying to tell her that I don't give a **** (I definitely did, she broke my "unfeeling streak") and asked her what in the world she expected to happen? She tells me "because I wanted to change him".(I'll get to why this is important later) I slept with her that night, and didn't call her for 3 days. This was me intentionally being a **** knowing damn well it was the best way to get another chance at her. I saw her the day I left town, and we ended up dating for a long time afterwards.


Now, one of my best friends is a girl that I've known for ****ing ever. Truth be told I was head over heels for her at one point, but it's long past that. I explained this whole situation to her, and she told me girls like "bad boys" because they enjoy the challenge of trying to be "different" than the "bad boy's" previous relationships had been.

Nowadays I'm boring as ****. I'll admit it. Right now I'm at a point in my life that I want a girl who is okay with the nice guy who's into art and music because he can't be into physical "manly" **** anymore. I want this, because I want to be able to be myself, and NOT have to resort to being a ****ing tool to get a date. Unfortunately, I haven't had this much trouble staying in a relationship since before I learned how to act like a **** and not feel bad about it.

TL;DR - By experience, I've found out being a **** works out a lot better than being a nice guy and it's pathetic and sad but true.

 

[Trick or Treat]

lol nice guys why is that even a category

youre boring because youre boring, not because youre nice.

there's a difference between boring and nice, believe it or not.

you can be nice and interesting.

when i was dating my first ex, i liked him because he was a nice dude who was also really interesting because we shared interests and got along really well. he was not playing hard to get or whatever, nor was he a jerk for the sake of getting girls. he was a sweet dude who just shared some mutual interests with me but still had his own unique hobbies, etc.

boyfriend is nice and i like him because our personalities mix well (hes snarky and im learning to be a total smartass thanks to him), we share interests, he has his own passions that make him happy, etc. He can be a sarcastic goober a lot of the time but he's still really nice and i like him a lot.

Idk, maybe this is just my own personal experience and im just stupid.

but see a pattern? people with interests + their own unique interests that dont necessarily match their significant other = more interesting people. like, the whole 'nice guys finish last' thing is dumb. you cant just be nice to get someone to like you. if that was the case, thatd be wayyy to easy. You have to have some semblance of a personality. Something that makes you interesting and attractive to someone else.

blah blah blah idk if im even making any sense right now i have a fever and i think i actually worried myself sick thanks to school so ignore if this doesnt make sense

This is amazing and faith in humanity has been somewhat restored!

You worded it better than I did. Nice =/= Boring. If you're a generally interesting person with things in common or whatever, that's really enough.

I'm not saying women consciously recognize those as things they're looking for. That'd be really low of any person to do. I'd go as far as to say that you're most likely different than the stereotypical girl judging by the fact that you consciously recognize that you want a nice guy, and as well as judging by the fact that most girls aren't spending any of their free time lurking smash boards. Lol. Your point is absolutely correct, but statistics don't lie when evaluating the psychological responses that the majority display.

I'm not so sure. It really depends on what the two people are looking for.

Very few girls actually focus on that. When listing what they want in a guy, they don't say "He can't be a nice guy".

Sure, we don't want someone boring. But that has nothing to do with being a nice guy, even though 99% of people will try to tell you otherwise. Those people are wrong. You can argue the stats all you want, but if a girl is actually looking for a relationship, she'll care more about what you're like as a person. Be nice without being boring.

The guy I like, who I've brought up on here, one of the reasons he's worried about what will happen with his girlfriend of now 5 years is because he thinks she's getting too bored of him and losing interest in him. He's also a stereotypical nice guy.

Yet I'm falling more and more in love with him every day that we talk. I don't find him boring and I never have since the day we met. People are different, and are interested in different things. If it took 5 years for her to get bored of him, that has nothing to do with him being a nice guy.

This **** just works. Why? I don't know. I'm pressed to say that the 2 of my last relationships ended ultimately because I was "boring" which I probably came off as solely BECAUSE I didn't do those things. I fell back into my nice guy habits. I offered advice, and consolation anytime I even considered they might need it. I thought that maybe it was unnecessary to hold off on the text, especially since they knew I worked from my phone %100 of the time anyways. Nope.

Don't take offense to this, but maybe you ARE just...boring. Not because of your nice guy habits but because you're boring. Again, I'm not saying you are, but I know that people try to blame it on their nice guy actions instead of simply admitting that they're just...boring. At least boring to those specific girls.

They might find you boring, or might be looking for a casual fling/**** buddy instead of a friend, but it's just as likely that the next girl you get would respond better to you. She might not find you boring, regardless of your "nice guy" habits. She might like that, even, just like I would. She might, you know, just like you as a person.

 

[AAkacia]

This is amazing and faith in humanity has been somewhat restored!

You worded it better than I did. Nice =/= Boring. If you're a generally interesting person with things in common or whatever, that's really enough.


I'm not so sure. It really depends on what the two people are looking for.

Very few girls actually focus on that. When listing what they want in a guy, they don't say "He can't be a nice guy".

Sure, we don't want someone boring. But that has nothing to do with being a nice guy, even though 99% of people will try to tell you otherwise. Those people are wrong. You can argue the stats all you want, but if a girl is actually looking for a relationship, she'll care more about what you're like as a person. Be nice without being boring.

The guy I like, who I've brought up on here, one of the reasons he's worried about what will happen with his girlfriend of now 5 years is because he thinks she's getting too bored of him and losing interest in him. He's also a stereotypical nice guy.

Yet I'm falling more and more in love with him every day that we talk. I don't find him boring and I never have since the day we met. People are different, and are interested in different things. If it took 5 years for her to get bored of him, that has nothing to do with him being a nice guy.



Don't take offense to this, but maybe you ARE just...boring. Not because of your nice guy habits but because you're boring. Again, I'm not saying you are, but I know that people try to blame it on their nice guy actions instead of simply admitting that they're just...boring. At least boring to those specific girls.

They might find you boring, or might be looking for a casual fling/**** buddy instead of a friend, but it's just as likely that the next girl you get would respond better to you. She might not find you boring, regardless of your "nice guy" habits. She might like that, even, just like I would. She might, you know, just like you as a person.

This read really awkward without pointing out that to most people, I probably am just boring. But -

Maybe it's just the area that I live in as well as where I grew up, but I refuse to be around people who's whole late teens/early twenties are spent
A) Constantly stoned
B) Don't have fun unless it involves a party (drugs+alcohol)

Do you know how hard it is to find people who are interested in music, art, and/or philosophy and don't incorporate drugs/alcohol into their daily regimen? I would go to amateur art showcases, and to shows (concerts), and philosophy debates/clubs 2 to 3 times a week when I moved here to try and meet people. Not to mention, being an "Atheist" in this area is another good way to get people to think you're crazy. I ended up being referred by my FAMILY MEMBERS to see a psychiatrist because I still didn't have friends in the area a year and a half later because I refuse to be around people like that. Then I finally did see a psychiatrist after my coworkers realized that I had 2 beers on my 21st birthday, and one sat me down to ask if I was okay. My step-father owns the company, and after that conversation she told him what I told her and the next day I was told I could take half of every Monday off if I would go to talk to a psychiatrist. I just don't get it. So, if refusing to be involved with alcoholics and drug users portrays me as "boring", so be it. All this was roughly about a year ago.


Also, your example was "Very few girls actually focus on that. When listing what they want in a guy, they don't say "He can't be a nice guy"."

I wasn't saying that they do that, or that they consciously want a "bad guy". The point I'm trying to make is that being a **** is more "interesting" than being a nice guy. When listing what they want in a guy, and then listing the guys they have been with the list is completely ass backwards to what they actually display that they want.

Talk is cheap.

You can probably interview 10 women who are currently in relationships about what they want in a guy, and then without telling them, get to know their boyfriend and you'd be like "uhh.. he has 2.. he has 2 of these characteristics she listed... .. 2 ..."

 

[Trick or Treat]

Maybe it's just the area that I live in as well as where I grew up, but I refuse to be around people who's whole late teens/early twenties are spent
A) Constantly stoned
B) Don't have fun unless it involves a party (drugs+alcohol)

Do you know how hard it is to find people who are interested in music, art, and/or philosophy and don't incorporate drugs/alcohol into their daily regimen? I would go to amateur art showcases, and to shows (concerts), and philosophy debates/clubs 2 to 3 times a week when I moved here to try and meet people. Not to mention, being an "Atheist" in this area is another good way to get people to think you're crazy. I ended up being referred by my FAMILY MEMBERS to see a psychiatrist because I still didn't have friends in the area a year and a half later because I refuse to be around people like that. Then I finally did see a psychiatrist after my coworkers realized that I had 2 beers on my 21st birthday, and one sat me down to ask if I was okay. My step-father owns the company, and after that conversation she told him what I told her and the next day I was told I could take half of every Monday off if I would go to talk to a psychiatrist. I just don't get it. So, if refusing to be involved with alcoholics and drug users portrays me as "boring", so be it. All this was roughly about a year ago.

You don't really sound that bad to me. You just need to find someone else who thinks that. But there ARE others out there, you have to remember.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Cuz seriously, you may seem boring to one person, but someone else could think youre the coolest

for instance, most of my school friends HATE when i talk sports and find that aspect of my life boring, just like im bored because their main interest is DOTA 2 and i am honestly not going to try it until i graduate stop asking sweet jesus. I have even had friends act really toxic because of my interest in sports ('how can people LIKE SPORTS?!' seriously people were oddly passionate about that it was kind of concerning....they had the whole jock-prep-nerd label mentality to an unhealthy extent)

while i have friends i cannot talk games with because we only like to talk about sports together. They dont understand video games or art or any of my other interests, but we can talk sports for hours.

guess what im trying to say is find outlets for your interests that can help you meet people and explore new hobbies.
and dont think your hobbies are above the hobbies of others. thats just pretentious. art school was weird. i was made fun of for liking sports :I wtf

 

[Trick or Treat]

I wish there were notifications for when you edit your posts, 'cause I almost missed your additions.

I'll agree that most of your points are valid, but I do believe wholeheartedly that the "nice guys finish last" thing is perfectly relevant in regards to casually dating. Why? Well, as you guys have probably noticed I usually have a personal experience to back up most of my claims. If I don't see clear-cut evidence for it, then I'm naturally a skeptic. Anyways, here goes

To be fair, I stated this multiple times so far, I think. Casual dating, yes. If both you and the girl are only interested in something on the casual side, then avoiding the "nice guy" stereotype is definitely something to keep in mind.

But when it comes to a serious relationship, and love, then "nice guys finish last" is pretty much entirely irrelevant.

I'm talking to this girl who I'd known for at least a couple years, but prior to our recent affairs I wasn't too interested. This was before I got in a car accident, so at the time; I skateboard on an almost daily basis, incredibly reckless, but I work full time as well as am in my first year of college. For whatever reason ever since a year and a half before then(last relationship at the time), I hadn't developed intimate feelings for any girl I'd been with whether or not we got along and I was incredibly attracted to her, whether we shared common interests (art, and music usually peaked it for me), no matter what. So I decided to be celibate, and that I was going to abstain from sex until those feelings developed. It had been a year since this decision and the aforementioned girl and I were getting much closer than I had been with anyone in a while. Finally, I started developing intimate feelings for her. We had been "fooling around" for at least 3 weeks, when she tried to get me to have sex with her. I told her no, and that I wouldn't do it unless we were "official". I had been planning to ask her out that night anyways, so I went ahead and did it. She said no, that she didn't want anything serious. A couple more weeks go by, we're still doing the same thing and again she tries to get me to have sex with her. I tell her no, and sincerely tell her that I'm not going to do it until we're together and that I really want to be. Next thing I know, she won't talk to me and about a month goes by where I don't hear from her. I'm chillin' at home, getting ready for work when I see "blah blah is now in a relationship with blah blah". It hurt really bad. I let her know. She calls me while I'm on the way to work, and she's CRYING and apologizing for being a *****. Turns out, I skate with this dude like 3 times a week, we are in the same classes, but we have opposite personalities. The dude is a **** head. It's that simple. He was a stoner(I smoked, but not on a literal hourly basis), experimenting with drugs of different kinds, and just an all around douche. Now, I'm not saying people who are doing those things jobless are douches, but why tell someone who displays responsibility and the ability to enjoy themselves that you don't want anything serious and then get with someone obviously not going to be around for long? I tell her it's okay and that I appreciate her apology and I move on.

*2 years later*

I get a text from her letting me know that if I need a place to stay when I visit that I can sleep at her place. I immediately start laughing and make it a point to be a ****. I reply "yeah.. I don't know. I'm supposed to stay with ___ but we'll see". A week later I'm there visiting home and I get together with her to have a few drinks. She apologizes again for what she did 2 years earlier and tells me about how dumb it was, then commences to tell me how ****ing stupid her ex acted during what turned into her longest relationship. She goes on about his drug problems, and how he cheated on her once, and near the end completely treated her like ****. At this point I'm trying to tell her that I don't give a **** (I definitely did, she broke my "unfeeling streak") and asked her what in the world she expected to happen? She tells me "because I wanted to change him".(I'll get to why this is important later) I slept with her that night, and didn't call her for 3 days. This was me intentionally being a **** knowing damn well it was the best way to get another chance at her. I saw her the day I left town, and we ended up dating for a long time afterwards.

This is still just one example. And this is more on her part, but either way, the next girl in line easily could've been the exact opposite. I don't really know, although it doesn't even seem like you were giving off a real 'jerk' vibe, honestly. Unless you're underexaggerating, nothing you said really sounded that bad...

Now, one of my best friends is a girl that I've known for ****ing ever. Truth be told I was head over heels for her at one point, but it's long past that. I explained this whole situation to her, and she told me girls like "bad boys" because they enjoy the challenge of trying to be "different" than the "bad boy's" previous relationships had been.

I've only met one girl like this, honestly.

Nowadays I'm boring as ****. I'll admit it. Right now I'm at a point in my life that I want a girl who is okay with the nice guy who's into art and music because he can't be into physical "manly" **** anymore. I want this, because I want to be able to be myself, and NOT have to resort to being a ****ing tool to get a date. Unfortunately, I haven't had this much trouble staying in a relationship since before I learned how to act like a **** and not feel bad about it.

Cliche time, but you'll find someone. Because there definitely are girls out there who will like that part of you and want to be with you, the real you.

TL;DR - By experience, I've found out being a **** works out a lot better than being a nice guy and it's pathetic and sad but true.

Sometimes.

I wasn't saying that they do that, or that they consciously want a "bad guy". The point I'm trying to make is that being a **** is more "interesting" than being a nice guy.

Again, sometimes. Simply being nice doesn't make you less interesting. If you have other interesting traits, or you just have a really fun personality or friendship with 'x'-girl, then that right there is enough. It's not "being a nice guy is less interesting than being a tool", it's more like "Don't be a boring nice guy."

Although, as said before, there are girls that are just simply more interested in the "bad boys". They find them more interesting, mainly for the reasons you stated above, and like the challenge. But this really isn't the majority, at least not an overwhelming majority. I've met a lot of girls like that, yes, but I've also met a ton of girls that AREN'T like that. Not to mention, that's usually not what those girls truly want, because those relationships hardly ever last.

When listing what they want in a guy, and then listing the guys they have been with the list is completely *** backwards to what they actually display that they want.

Talk is cheap.

You can probably interview 10 women who are currently in relationships about what they want in a guy, and then without telling them, get to know their boyfriend and you'd be like "uhh.. he has 2.. he has 2 of these characteristics she listed... .. 2 ..."

This is actually somewhat true, although I've noticed it's the same for guys. At least some of the guys I've known.

 

[beunhaas]

My advice for the guys that go on a first date is to be nervous as ****. The girl ur dating is as nervous as you. Act like u aint nervous and all doesnt make her feel special and looks like u dont care. So the more nervous u are the better it is actually.

 

[Teran]

Don't listen to the women's propaganda, they're using it to subjugate mankind.

 

[Trick or Treat]

mankind.

Not for long...

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Teran i will fight you IRL

 

[Teran]

Teran i will fight you IRL

I will tie you to a chair and make love to your boyfriend.

 

[Trick or Treat]

I will tie you to a chair and make love to your boyfriend.

Please do this so I can have Lokii myself.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

TERAN NO.
GDI HE WOULD BE SO ANGRY AT BOTH OF US AND YOU KNOW IT.

I THINK I WOULD DIE FOR STARTING ALL OF THIS.

Also Lokii gets all the ladies

 

[Teran]

Please do this so I can have Lokii myself.

Yeah, women should stick together imo.

TERAN NO.
GDI HE WOULD BE SO ANGRY AT BOTH OF US AND YOU KNOW IT.

I THINK I WOULD DIE FOR STARTING ALL OF THIS.

Also Lokii gets all the ladies

Nah bro, he'd never be angry at me.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I will tie you to a chair and make love to your boyfriend.

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

confirmation text that boyfriend would in fact be angry.

HAH.

 

[AAkacia]

I wish there were notifications for when you edit your posts, 'cause I almost missed your additions.



To be fair, I stated this multiple times so far, I think. Casual dating, yes. If both you and the girl are only interested in something on the casual side, then avoiding the "nice guy" stereotype is definitely something to keep in mind.

But when it comes to a serious relationship, and love, then "nice guys finish last" is pretty much entirely irrelevant.



This is still just one example. And this is more on her part, but either way, the next girl in line easily could've been the exact opposite. I don't really know, although it doesn't even seem like you were giving off a real 'jerk' vibe, honestly. Unless you're underexaggerating, nothing you said really sounded that bad...



I've only met one girl like this, honestly.



Cliche time, but you'll find someone. Because there definitely are girls out there who will like that part of you and want to be with you, the real you.



Sometimes.



Again, sometimes. Simply being nice doesn't make you less interesting. If you have other interesting traits, or you just have a really fun personality or friendship with 'x'-girl, then that right there is enough. It's not "being a nice guy is less interesting than being a tool", it's more like "Don't be a boring nice guy."

Although, as said before, there are girls that are just simply more interested in the "bad boys". They find them more interesting, mainly for the reasons you stated above, and like the challenge. But this really isn't the majority, at least not an overwhelming majority. I've met a lot of girls like that, yes, but I've also met a ton of girls that AREN'T like that. Not to mention, that's usually not what those girls truly want, because those relationships hardly ever last.


This is actually somewhat true, although I've noticed it's the same for guys. At least some of the guys I've known.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. And I wanted to point out the distinction between casually dating and looking for a serious relationship so that anyone reading these would know we're talking about a clear cut group of people.

The problem for me, is that most people "dating" truly believe they're looking for long term relationships, and realize (when it get less interesting, because if you're with someone for a long time it inevitably will) that they aren't. Even after they realize they don't enjoy their relationship anymore, they don't realize the trend that they go through of losing interest after becoming comfortable with their partner. I'd say this is a psychological phenomenon due to the unconscious mind.

This is where that distinct line becomes blurry, until the person in question becomes aware of their trend and make conscious decisions to either stop it, or accept it until they are in a comfortable relationship one day and realize that they're okay with it this time. I don't think this is a bi-product of "love" either, I think it's a product of maturity. I in turn think that "true love" is a bi-product of two people reaching that point, and being at the right place at the right time (not in a physical sense, but in a mental sense) - OR that "true love" that romances and poetic stories speak of, the ones where the "honeymoon phase" quite literally never goes away and the two people are head over heels for each other forever.

To go back to the part about people thinking they're ready to "settle down" per se, but in actuality are not ready - I think that the overwhelming majority of women (and yes, I agree with you; men too) respond to the "dating advice" that main-stream outlets will try and cram down your throat as absolute truth. On the other hand, I believe that with a few tweaks to those "advises" the same information will work the same way for women pursuing men as it will for men pursuing women.

In essence, the casual dating game is all about the chase. Eventually the running gets tiresome, and you get to a point where I am. Unfortunately, I'm in my early twenties, and am completely exhausted.


Yeah, I edit a lot of my posts after the fact because I feel like my thoughts have been written before they were fully developed. I appreciate the reassurances from you and Lokii though. <3 I half expected to be told my mindset is uncensored bigotry that's ass backwards. It's nice to have intelligent conversations where the participants don't end up spamming ad hominems because one or more of them are offended.