The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[Judge Judy]

FLUDD also works pretty well in this match-up since Lucario is floaty and all of his aerials are highly affected by FIHL. Just a good thing to keep in mind.

 

[BoTastic!]

Ph1l, Mario should always be caping Aura sphere. Its slow, predictable, and a big target to cape.

Mario's bair is faster than Lucairo's fair and Bair. Fight him with Bairs and fireballs and not Uairs. Only try Uairs if Lucario is stuck on a platform.

Lucario will combo the doodoo out of you. Don't let him grab you, or you're ina world of hurt.

He can also gimp you at very low % if you are not careful. If you get caught in Fairs offstage don't try to jump. Lucario isn't mk he has to get back to the stage after 4 or 5 fairs offstage. once he tries to get back on the ledge thats when you try to recover. If you mess up Lucario will destroy you offstage.

If you wanna try gimping him try a full charged fludd first. If he used both his jumps he's in trouble. Fludd will make his up B stop or curve upwards depending on their DI. When they are in free fall Cape them.

Ima have to go with 55:45 Lucario or 50:50.

 

[Matador]

Ph1l, Mario should always be caping Aura sphere. Its slow, predictable, and a big target to cape.

Mario's bair is faster than Lucairo's fair and Bair. Fight him with Bairs and fireballs and not Uairs. Only try Uairs if Lucario is stuck on a platform.

Lucario will combo the doodoo out of you. Don't let him grab you, or you're ina world of hurt.

He can also gimp you at very low % if you are not careful. If you get caught in Fairs offstage don't try to jump. Lucario isn't mk he has to get back to the stage after 4 or 5 fairs offstage. once he tries to get back on the ledge thats when you try to recover. If you mess up Lucario will destroy you offstage.

If you wanna try gimping him try a full charged fludd first. If he used both his jumps he's in trouble. Fludd will make his up B stop or curve upwards depending on their DI. When they are in free fall Cape them.

Ima have to go with 55:45 Lucario or 50:50.

I fully agree with this.

I've never really had trouble getting inside vs Lucario even if they're playing campy since fireball approach usually does the trick. My problem with him is similar to with Luigi; unless my attack comes out first, your attack will always win and ALWAYS will be followed up with chained attacks, and then killing around 100%. Mario's relatively fast in attackspeed, so he often can get this first hit, but Lucario has a great Dair and can easily interrupt your chains if you're not careful.

 

[vato_break]

lol dude every lucario will dair after dthrow your options? bair...or piviot grab if they are low.

 

[phi1ny3]

Fireball is pretty good. I usually have to start fanning, jumping, or PSing if I want to avoid things like that. Btw, BO X7, lucario's will use AS at near point blank ranges, and it comes out at about frame 17-18ish. Some will even use it after some fairs as a mixup to get some nice damage in. It is capeable from far away, but good AS behavior will vary a lot, even to the point of baiting a reflect (although if I understand, cape is one of the more safer ones to use).

 

[Matador]

I'm always pissed whenever I get hit by AS...because I'm thinking "how the hell did I not cape that?". Most Lucarios I fight use it to cut off movement or force a reaction, then punish. If it hits, unexpected bonus.

 

[CPU?]

id say we should stick to 45:55 lucario its not going far from it and alot of people say 45:55 lucario its probably not going to change so why bother.

 

[HeroMystic]

lol @ the people saying 35:65 and 30:70.

 

[CPU?]

lol @ the people saying 35:65 and 30:70.

thats a mega lawl

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I still say 40:60 Lucario.

But yet again, it's my most hated matchup, so I'm gonna go with.

40:60 Lucario for any Mario who knows how to play them.

1:99 Lucario for me.

 

[CPU?]

who votes for 45:55 lucario?

 

[Matador]

55:45 or 60:40 is fine with me. It's not our adv and it's not heavily against us. The middle ground is what we're trying to find.

There's not much to this matchup really. Both can generally play how they normally would except Lucario has to be safer with his ES if he needs to use it, and Mario has to be aware that Lucario can beat him aerially.

 

[CPU?]

i think 45:55lucario is the mean of what is said here.

 

[HeroMystic]

I find 45:55 the most accurate.

The battle is mainly who KOs who first. The advantage slightly goes to Lucario though due to abnormally large hitboxes which more or less breaks Mario's combos.

 

[:mad:]

Lol. No way Lucario is just as hard, if not harder to beat than Meta Knight. 60:40 sounds about right, arguable for 55:45.

I'm glad we have some help on this matchup.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Let's do Link next so I can spam my Wall of Text used on the newer SWF Link Boards to put them in their place when playing Mario. lmfao.

That or Toon Link.

 

[Ismael]

Let's do Link next so I can spam my Wall of Text used on the newer SWF Link Boards to put them in their place when playing Mario. lmfao.

That or Toon Link.

Rep Mario in the Link boards? Nice.

 

[Judge Judy]

Lol. No way Lucario is just as hard, if not harder to beat than Meta Knight. 60:40 sounds about right, arguable for 55:45.

I'm glad we have some help on this matchup.

It's nowhere near as hard as MK; Lucario is not fast, he's not super slow either, but he's definitely a lot more punishable in every way than MK.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Rep Mario in the Link boards? Nice.

I play both characters in tournament. I know the match-up really well. I'm also very active with the Link mains on AiB and here on SWF before we moved. lol

 

[Matador]

I play both characters in tournament. I know the match-up really well. I'm also very active with the Link mains on AiB and here on SWF before we moved. lol

Your Link is still the best I've played. I look forward to seeing your wall of text on the matchup.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Your Link is still the best I've played. I look forward to seeing your wall of text on the matchup.

I could go on for a looooong time. xD

 

[CPU?]

are u the one that made the youtube video linkagedin kirin?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Lol. No way Lucario is just as hard, if not harder to beat than Meta Knight. 60:40 sounds about right, arguable for 55:45.

I'm glad we have some help on this matchup.

For me, Lucario is harder. BY A LOT.

Seriously. But I'll go for 45:55 and stuff, I have my own opinion, which is 1:99.

 

[BoTastic!]

If you only play online then yea, Lucario is 60:40. Offline, not so difficult. You can react to his antics a lot easier.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I'm talking offline, I hardly play online.

I really need to work on the matchup. I don't know, mabye their playstyle just counters mine, oh well.

 

[KirinBlaze]

are u the one that made the youtube video linkagedin kirin?

No, I am not. That man's name is Izaw. He's a European Link player and considered among the Top 4 best Link's in the world.

 

[Inferno3044]

55:45 sounds good, but i think it is arguable for 50:50 or 60:40. Btw we should do marth.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'd rather play a Marth than a Lucario personally. I think Marth is a much closer matchup than Lucario. While vs Lucario, I have doubts about that matchup because it is extremely dependant on getting a critical KO or gimp before he survives too long, otherwise it really goes downhill.

Marth is a lot easier to combo and has more ending lag on a lot of his stuff, and you force the approach better. In comparison, Lucario is difficult to combo safely, and his kill moves don't have as much ending lag (in exchange for a small amount of range). I think Marth is also lighter.

Maybe it's because I have more Marth experience than Lucario experience, but really, I can't see Lucario being 55/45, while I think vs Marth could possibly be that.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Marth is a lot easier to combo and has more ending lag on a lot of his stuff, and you force the approach better. In comparison, Lucario is difficult to combo safely, and his kill moves don't have as much ending lag (in exchange for a small amount of range). I think Marth is also lighter.

I was told at CoT4 that Marth is lighter than Peach.

 

[phi1ny3]

Fact: lucario is heavier than marth
Fact: Linkageddon was made by Izaw, who I think is now using Olimar more now (tho he still has a 1337 link)
Fact: Lucario's fsmash (probably his only truly reliable smash move) has more range than any of marth's moves, except for shield breaker, which is hardly deemed safe at higher play to duke in attrition vs. another attack. Lucario has a little bit of ending lag, but it does have nice IASA frames for fsmash, and is safer on block than marth smashes (but marth shouldn't be using smashes haphazardly to the point that they should get mentioned in a matchup as punishable, since they try to maximize on limiting options prior to doing the smash (like out of a grab or baiting an aerial). If you play really smart as mario tho, I can see why (especially if you have a lot of marth experience) that the marth would get frustrated.

 

[HeroMystic]

Lol. No way Lucario is just as hard, if not harder to beat than Meta Knight. 60:40 sounds about right, arguable for 55:45.

I'm glad we have some help on this matchup.

No.

Metaknight is the 2nd hardest match-up for Mario. Lucario isn't even near being the hardest. I for one play a Lucario player quite often and we got even most of the time, although I win more against him.

I think people mistake Lucario's disjointed hitboxes as hard rather than annoying.

I'd rather play a Marth than a Lucario personally.

Marth's a pansy.

 

[Matador]

I was told at CoT4 that Marth is lighter than Peach.

But Marth lives longer. Momentum cancelling n such.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Whut do you mean Marth lives longer? As long as you can predict that kill move you can get him at like 90% easily with a F-smash. It doesn't work that way against Lucario. No really. It's significantly harder to punish his F-smash than it is to punish Marth's stuff.

Up-smash out of shield is pretty good against both though.

 

[Matador]

Whut do you mean Marth lives longer? As long as you can predict that kill move you can get him at like 90% easily with a F-smash. It doesn't work that way against Lucario. No really. It's significantly harder to punish his F-smash than it is to punish Marth's stuff.

Up-smash out of shield is pretty good against both though.

Longer than Peach. Lucario lives longer than Marth. I'm talking just DI, not how hard it is to hit them. I find it hard to KO both Marth and Lucario because they beat everything with their aerials and spacing.

 

[BoTastic!]

Peach can cancel too you know.

 

[Matador]

Peach can cancel too you know.

Marth has the best cancelling in the game aside from G&W. His Fair comes out in 3 frames and has ridiculously low lag. Hell, he can cancel better than Mario and our slowest is 4.

 

[Judge Judy]

I thought Marth's Fair came out in 4 frames.

 

[hippiedude92]

Wtf?? I always die early with marth even w/ di+fair. I thought peach has more momentum cancellings techs?

 

[:mad:]

I think we should start Marth discussion, since we've gotten so far off track.

 

[Matt07]

Oh Marth, we had a huge debate about the match-up ratio.