The "character who would you rather over character" thread

[crazybenjamin]

People would probably be bothered to temember that if Fire Emblem representation wasn't already done to death.

Why judge characters based on other characters in the game, when you could instead judge them based on their own merits?

 

[Lenidem]

Why judge characters based on other characters in the game, when you could instead judge them based on their own merits?

Because an overload of characters from the same serie means fewer characters from other series.

 

[crazybenjamin]

Because an overload of characters from the same serie means fewer characters from other series.

Then don't blame the Echo Fighters, blame the uniques who actually take up significant dev time

 

[Lenidem]

Then don't blame the Echo Fighters, blame the uniques who actually take up significant dev time

That's what I do. Although, even Echo fighters could come from different franchises (Funky Kong, Shadow...).

 

[crazybenjamin]

That's why I do.

My posts were less directed at you, and more directed at DrCoeloCephalo

Although, even Echo fighters could come from different franchises (Funky Kong, Shadow...).

3rd party echoes such as Shadow would require greater negotiations with the rights holders, so Richter/Ken are the only echoes who could be "replaced" with Shadow, and that's not even taking into account factors such as how Simon and Richter were discussed in tandem with each other. As for Funky Kong, he's always just been a secondary character, so while you could make a case for replacing Lucina, replacing Chrom with Funky would be just as "biased" as half the things that this fanbase complains about (I find it hypocritical that the same crowd that uses "fan demand" as an argument refuses to defend Chrom, and I also don't believe that replacing the Echoes is sufficient to appease those who have a problem with Fire Emblem "bias.")

 

[Lenidem]

My posts were less directed at you, and more directed at DrCoeloCephalo

Ok, no problem.

3rd party echoes such as Shadow would require greater negotiations with the rights holders, so Richter/Ken are the only echoes who could be "replaced" with Shadow, and that's not even taking into account factors such as how Simon and Richter were discussed in tandem with each other. As for Funky Kong, he's always just been a secondary character, so while you could make a case for replacing Lucina, replacing Chrom with Funky would be just as "biased" as half the things that this fanbase complains about (I find it hypocritical that the same crowd that uses "fan demand" as an argument refuses to defend Chrom, and I also don't believe that replacing the Echoes is sufficient to appease those who have a problem with Fire Emblem "bias.")

To be honest, I don't know Fire Emblem at all, so yeah, Chrom is probably more important than Funky. But, if I'm not mistaken, only in one game, while Funky is in every DK game and even playable in a Mario Kart and in the Switch version of Tropical Freeze. So it might be debatable.

Yeah, it might be difficult for Shadow due to him being Sega's. I'm talking in general: I would prefer an Echo of Sonic or another less represented serie than an Echo of a Fire Emblem character or a Pokémon, just for variety.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Why judge characters based on other characters in the game, when you could instead judge them based on their own merits?

Toad is generic and doesn't have or retain any special qualities as far as Mario characters go. The best he can do is a few of the things Mario can, assuming it's not Captain Toad whom can't even jump and is slow as molasses as a treasure hunter compared to the higher speed and muscly powerhouse that is Wario.

Waluigi factually, canonically and statistically does anything Mario and Luigi do but better, as evidence by his high affinity towards technique and skill, allowing him to put far more quality and finesse into the things he does, ESPECIALLY jumping since his Jumping stat is established to be far superior to Mario and Luigi's. In addition, he also excels at defensive techniques unlike Mario and Luigi whom are All-Arounders that don't truly excel at anything. While Waluigi lacks in speed and power, that is easily more than balanced out by his pal Wario whom excels at both of those.

As far as their own merits go, Waluigi has more.

 

[Lenidem]

Toad is generic and doesn't have or retain any special qualities as far as Mario characters go. The best he can do is a few of the things Mario can, assuming it's not Captain Toad whom can't even jump and is slow as molasses as a treasure hunter compared to the higher speed and muscly powerhouse that is Wario.

Waluigi factually, canonically and statistically does anything Mario and Luigi do but better, as evidence by his high affinity towards technique and skill, allowing him to put far more quality and finesse into the things he does, ESPECIALLY jumping since his Jumping stat is established to be far superior to Mario and Luigi's. In addition, he also excels at defensive techniques unlike Mario and Luigi whom are All-Arounders that don't truly excel at anything. While Waluigi lacks in speed and power, that is easily more than balanced out by his pal Wario whom excels at both of those.

As far as their own merits go, Waluigi has more.

"Canonically", Toad can also do the same as Mario and Luigi, bus he's faster and stronger. Also, "canonically", the Captain can jump, it is stated in I don't remember which Mario game. The fact he doesn't do it in his game doesn't mean he absolutely can't. Before Ocarina of Time, Link needed an item to jump, and even in Ocarina, he only could when reaching a ledge. That didn't mean he physically couldn't jump whenever he wanted.

Also, I wonder which "special qualities" Waluigi has but not Toad, besides some differences in stats. It seems that all the Mario cast is more or less on the same level in the sport and party games.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Also, I wonder which "special qualities" Waluigi has but not Toad, besides some differences in stats. It seems that all the Mario cast is more or less on the same level in the sport and party games.

Wind-based and Water-based attributes (which Toad has neither of) in addition to the far greater skill in jumping.

That's more of a conflict with game design and it's not even remotely true.

In Mario Party, you usually don't have that control of what minigames or events you play amd even in the modes when you do, it's still a casual party game where it makes more sense for everyone to be on an equal footing. Generally, the minigames you play will be decided on a number of random elements. Keeping all the characters the same keeps things more skill reliant in an already luck reliant game. For example, making certain characters faster at mashing would favor them more in minigames where pressing the A button is all that's needed and depending on how many minigames do that,it just creates even further imbalance.

It's like trying to say Pokemon's roster is balanced just because their power gap is almost non-existent in games like Trozei. Anyone that plays Pokemon on a high level knows how laughably unbalanced Pokemon is as far as monster collectors go.

In sports games, where it is established that he has greater qualities in technique and defense, you're going to have more control over what events and minigames you enter, so the characters you pick for what events actually matter no differently from how they would in actual sporting events where the best of the best qualify to get their representation.

It's no different from how we have complete control over how Smash is played to any preference and then choosing characters depending on the format.

Characters that can get kills more reliably amidst a ton of distractions like Ganondorf, King Dedede, King K. Rool, etc are going to have greater favor in timed free for alls as opposed to faster, lighter characters like Pikachu whom excel in 1v1 stock format.

 

[Lenidem]

Wind-based and Water-based attributes (which Toad has neither of) in addition to the far greater skill in jumping.

That's more of a conflict with game design and it's not even remotely true.

In Mario Party, you usually don't have that control of what minigames or events you play amd even in the modes when you do, it's still a casual party game where it makes more sense for everyone to be on an equal footing. Generally, the minigames you play will be decided on a number of random elements. Keeping all the characters the same keeps things more skill reliant in an already luck reliant game. For example, making certain characters faster at mashing would favor them more in minigames where pressing the A button is all that's needed and depending on how many minigames do that,it just creates even further imbalance.

It's like trying to say Pokemon's roster is balanced just because their power gap is almost non-existent in games like Trozei. Anyone that plays Pokemon on a high level knows how laughably unbalanced Pokemon is as far as monster collectors go.

In sports games, where it is established that he has greater qualities in technique and defense, you're going to have more control over what events and minigames you enter, so the characters you pick for what events actually matter no differently from how they would in actual sporting events where the best of the best qualify to get their representation.

It's no different from how we have complete control over how Smash is played to any preference and then choosing characters depending on the format.

Characters that can get kills more reliably amidst a ton of distractions like Ganondorf, King Dedede, King K. Rool, etc are going to have greater favor in timed free for alls as opposed to faster, lighter characters like Pikachu whom excel in 1v1 stock format.

So the only game that matters is the one in which Waluigi has good stats? That's convenient.

Don't get me wrong, I kinda like the Purple Plumber and I would like him to join Smash, but I have a problem with your argumentation.

 

[Janx_uwu]

So the only game that matters is the one in which Waluigi has good stats? That's convenient.

Don't get me wrong, I kinda like the Purple Plumber and I would like him to join Smash, but I have a problem with your argumentation.

He's a plumber?

 

[UserKev]

Honestly, I see why Eggman is wanted over etc. Eggman has an interesting and charismatic personality, but Idk. His mech capabilities are so.. unrefreshing. If I did a rate the character over, Porky over Fawful, Fawful over Eggman, but Eggman over any Advance Wars rep.

 

[Lenidem]

He's a plumber?

Is he not? I mean, as much as Mario and Luigi?

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

So the only game that matters is the one in which Waluigi has good stats? That's convenient.

Don't get me wrong, I kinda like the Purple Plumber and I would like him to join Smash, but I have a problem with your argumentation.

Why shouldn't statistical information matter? It's more proof than what you have and it wouldn't help Toad's case otherwise because he'd still be nothing special if everyone has the same stats anyway. It's not really "convenience" if it's evidence that's inconvenient to your counterargument.

Again, go back to my Pokemon example.

Pokemon Battle Trozei doesn't exactly do anything to make monsters like Pachirisu or Pikachu anything even remotely strong in the grand scheme of their own games.

If it doesn't matter, then characters like Bowser, Wario and Donkey shouldn't be heavy in Smash then since Mario Party games where they are playable in addition to their own games don't really have applicable or contextual weight values to justify that.

If you choose to have problem with me bringing up statistical information, then I guess that's your problem then.

Also that is a strawman logical fallacy. You are distorting and misrepresenting my points regarding these facts to make them easier to attack. If this is an argumentation like you claim, then you would have already lost.

Is he not? I mean, as much as Mario and Luigi?

He's not. It's never established that he is. People just assume he is. Wario isn't either. He's a treasure hunter and you'd habe an easier time claiming he's a video game tycoon because thanks to WarioWare, that's what he actually is. You'd also have an easier time arguing Waluigi is a rich motor oil tycoon as they use that in his personality profile in Mario Kart 8.

 

[Lenidem]

Why shouldn't statistical information matter? It's more proof than what you have and it wouldn't help Toad's case otherwise because he'd still be nothing special if everyone has the same stats anyway. It's not really "convenience" if it's evidence that's inconvenient to your counterargument.

Again, go back to my Pokemon example.

Pokemon Battle Trozei doesn't exactly do anything to make monsters like Pachirisu or Pikachu anything even remotely strong in the grand scheme of their own games.

If it doesn't matter, then characters like Bowser, Wario and Donkey shouldn't be heavy in Smash then since Mario Party games where they are playable in addition to their own games don't really have applicable or contextual weight values to justify that.

If you choose to have problem with me bringing up statistical information, then I guess that's your problem then.

Also that is a strawman logical fallacy. You are distorting and misrepresenting my points regarding these facts to make them easier to attack. If this is an argumentation like you claim, then you would have already lost.



He's not. It's never established that he is. People just assume he is. Wario isn't either. He's a treasure hunter and you'd habe an easier time claiming he's a video game tycoon because thanks to WarioWare, that's what he actually is. You'd also have an easier time arguing Waluigi is a rich motor oil tycoon as they use that in his personality profile in Mario Kart 8.

You seem to believe that the one game where Waluigi is somewhat different from the rest of the cast is more important than the dozens of games where he doesn't have anything special. I think it's wierd reasoning, yes. Of course, if Waluigi joins Smash, the developers should use this differences to create the character and his moveset (higher jumping skill than Mario and Luigi, according to what you say), but I wouldn't use this differences as a way to promote him. Also, Toad is faster and stronger than Mario and Luigi in Super Mario Bros. 2/USA, which seems to be canon, and I think it's the same in 3D World.

I don't get your Pokémon example. Yes, there are differences between games. Does that mean that we have to choose which games are "true"? If so, based on what? The "canonicity"? In the main Mario games, Waluigi is just not there, and it's always changing anyway (take Bowser's size, for example). The most numerous? In the majority of them, Waluigi plays almost exactly as everyone else. So it seems that you arbitrarly choose to only consider the minority of games in which your favorite character looks good, for reasons that are totally partial.

Plumber or not, I don't care, honestly. But I'm curious: has it ever been established (in the games, not in merchandising) that Mario and Luigi are actually plumbers?

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

You seem to believe that the one game where Waluigi is somewhat different from the rest of the cast is more important than the dozens of games where he doesn't have anything special.

So it seems that you arbitrarly choose to only consider the minority of games in which your favorite character looks good, for reasons that are totally partial.

No. It's about taking all evidence and information into consideration and the party games don't provide any of that information because it conflicts with game design and balance if it did.

All of them working exactly the same in certain games where it makes sense for balance purposes doesn't really do anything to negate the characters excelling in different areas in other games in which it would make sense for a sporting game where physical prowess and abilities are going to be taken more into consideration.

You can say they work the same in a party game all you please. It won't change the researchable fact that their established athleticism in competitive sporting events says that they don't.

If you don't understand that example, then look at Sonic Shuffle. Sonic isn't automatically just as slow as Amy just because they all work the same for the sake of balance in a party game.

Waluigi not being in main series games like Wario too is ultimately the fault of Nintendo but at the same time, Nintendo says Wario excels at speed and power and Waluigi excels at technique and defense in their games where it makes sense for characters to be different.

It's not even remotely being partial when you take every single part into account. It's certainly not my fault certain parts provide zero evidence to suggest anything. If you think it is, you're more than free to try to contest more reliable sources of information such as the Mario Wiki which does the exact same thing of taking all games into account for listing off his abilities or any old official Mario game website where the character stats and prowesses are listed and it's not necessarily their fault either Mario Party doesn't do that kind of thing, nor is it my fault Mario games aten't known for consistency. I certainly wouldn't mind if it did, since I could crush the other characters in certain minigames he'd have an advantage in.

Plumber or not, I don't care, honestly. But I'm curious: has it ever been established (in the games, not in merchandising) that Mario and Luigi are actually plumbers?

In the games, no. Not as far as I can tell or find without secondhand sources like instruction booklets or interviews.

 

[Lenidem]

No. It's about taking all evidence and information into consideration and the party games don't provide any of that information because it conflicts with game design and balance if it did.

All of them working exactly the same in certain games where it makes sense for balance purposes doesn't really do anything to negate the characters excelling in different areas in other games in which it would make sense for a sporting game where physical prowess and abilities are going to be taken more into consideration.

You can say they work the same in a party game all you please. It won't change the researchable fact that their established athleticism in competitive sporting events says that they don't.

If you don't understand that example, then look at Sonic Shuffle. Sonic isn't automatically just as slow as Amy just because they all work the same for the sake of balance in a party game.

Waluigi not being in main series games like Wario too is ultimately the fault of Nintendo but at the same time, Nintendo says Wario excels at speed and power and Waluigi excels at speed and defense in their games where it makes sense for characters to be different.

It's not even remotely being partial when you take every single part into account. It's certainly not my fault certain parts provide zero evidence to suggest anything. If you think it is, you're more than free to try to contest more reliable sources of information such as the Mario Wiki which does the exact same thing of taking all games into account for listing off his abilities or any old official Mario game website where the character stats and prowesses are listed and it's not necessarily their fault either Mario Party doesn't do that kind of thing, nor is it my fault Mario games aten't known for consistency. I certainly wouldn't mind if it did, since I could crush the other characters in certain minigames he'd have an advantage in.



In the games, no. Not as far as I can tell or find without secondhand sources like instruction booklets or interviews.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Waluigi doesn't excel in anything. I'm just saying that's not very important. And even if he is indeed very good in speed and defense, then Toad is also very good in speed and power.

For the plumber job, I think we forgot the first (non Super) Mario Bros., which takes place in the sewers, and it was then decided that they were both plumbers to justify the location. The green pipes are a remnant of this. I like to think that Waluigi and Wario are (or were) plumbers as well, even if it's not their main occupation anymore, just as I don't think Mario and Luigi don't spend a lot of time fixing leaks.

But we are digressing.

 

[UserKev]

Idk. I wouldn't say Waluigi isn't very important. Maybe not as important as Toad, but Waluigi is definitely important. He's a legacy character and very iconic. Honestly, all he really needs is his own game and any arguments against him will be non existent.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

any arguments against him will be non existent.

Any arguments against him are ALREADY non-existant. His importance to his series doesn't mean squat.

In the case of Waluigi, there are 3 big criticisms.

1. "He's an Assist Trophy!"

Yeah, so was Little Mac and Isabelle. So what if it was in previous games? No rule or law saying an update can't change that.

2. "He's a joke and a meme!"

Yeah, so was Game & Watch, Wario and Duck Hunt. It's not like characters weren't memed to oblivion regardless of Smash. Brawl came out during the 2008 era of YTP and we saw plenty of memes of Mario and Zelda thanks to Hotel Mario and Zelda CD-I games regardless of Smash.

3. "His fandom harrassed muh daddy Sakurai and sent him death threats!"

The article that started all that stupid drama provided absolutely no context or proof for that whole situation. As far as I can tell,it was all over a bunch of completely harmless memes.

Meanwhile, we have a user within the Smash fandom known by Smash Bandicoot whom has caused all kinds of drama speaking his absolute hatred towards the inclusion of Min-Min whilst also having posted a video you can still find called "Sakurai's Death in a Nutshell".

Yet, despite all this, there seems to be absolutely NO game journalists jumping on this topic and labeling the people whom support Crash Bandicoot in Smash as "ungrateful" amd looking for excuses to claim to be holier than them and pray to their daddy Sakurai to not inclue Crash in Smash because of this. That's what I call hypocrisy.

It's recently occurred to me how people also like to claim Waluigi's relevance to his series is an excuse when Jigglypuff is there.

Jigglypuff is VERY irrelevant to Pokemon.

She was only there in the first place for a short-lived running gag that they stopped using decades ago and even the famous drawn part of said gag involving the marker drawings on faces was never utilized in the games or in her Smash appearance.

She gets no acknowledgement as a Starter of some kind even for spinoffs. They could have easily made her a Starter option in Mystery Dungeon yet it seems they'd sooner give that privilege to stuff like Skitty or Psyduck.

No Mega Evolution. No Z-Move. All she got was the Fairy typing and despite that, her still getting stuck as part Normal holds her back. This buff to her typing does little to change the fact she still is and always was outclassed by Clefairy. Speaking of which, the fact Clefairy was one of the first Pokemon to get through all the red tape, you could argue Jigglypuff only exists JUST to be a worse Clefairy.

All things considered, Jigglypuff is far more irrelevant to Pokemon than Waluigi is to Mario. So that's no excuse.

 

[crazybenjamin]

His importance to his series doesn't mean squat.

Using that logic, "Fire Emblem selling less than Zelda doesn't mean squat."

If it's OK for others to complain about Chrom, then it's OK for me to complain when Toad gets snubbed.

 

[Arcadenik]

No they´re not Game Characters theyre Anime Characters if youre Fine with them then you should also be Fine with Goku,
if you want Team Rocket rep then how about Giovanni with Nidoking, Rihorn, Honchkrow and Maybe Persian

No.

I don’t want Nidoking, Rhyhorn, Honchkrow, and Persian. I want Meowth with Ekans/Arbok, Koffing/Weezing, and maybe Wobbuffet.

Jessie and James are valid. They have been appearing in official Nintendo-owned Pokemon video games. After all, Nintendo owns the rights to Jessie and James. They are canon in Pokémon games. And there really is no better choice for Team Rocket rep than Jessie and James.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

"Fire Emblem selling less than Zelda doesn't mean squat."

I never once used that as a point, so now you're just shifting goalposts, as you brought up their own merits (of which Waluigi has more) and even if I wanted to, other games deserve far more validation if sales figures and relevance get to be disregarded such as F-Zero, Wario (i.e. Ashley), Jack Frost and many others.

I want Meowth with Ekans/Arbok, Koffing/Weezing, and maybe Wobbuffet.

Just imagine a Meowth Final Smash in which Arbok uses Dig to pop up from underground with Weezing following behind from the hole and spraying poison gas around them to trap opponents into an animation where they use a giant electricity-proof robot to beat up the opponents and send them skyward and especially sending Pikachu blasting off.

'Twould be a thing of beauty.

Also, you forget Victreebel.

 

[crazybenjamin]

so now you're just shifting goalposts

That was not my intention, and I apologize if I gave the impression of trying to move the goalposts. But when people are unable to agree on what the Fire Emblem "problem" is in the first place, it makes it difficult to actually discuss things in a productive manner.

I just find it hypocritical that some of the same people who go on and on about "fan demand" would be the first people to defend Chrom's removal in Smash 6. (I'm not intending to call out any specific person with this statement, it's more the general sentiment)

as you brought up their own merits (of which Waluigi has more)

I think the two of us have different definitions of the word "merit."

 

[Oracle Link]

No.

I don’t want Nidoking, Rhyhorn, Honchkrow, and Persian. I want Meowth with Ekans/Arbok, Koffing/Weezing, and maybe Wobbuffet.

Jessie and James are valid. They have been appearing in official Nintendo-owned Pokemon video games. After all, Nintendo owns the rights to Jessie and James. They are canon in Pokémon games. And there really is no better choice for Team Rocket rep than Jessie and James.

Do you know what i dont care if you like the Rocket Idiots(this nothing to do with you i call them often rocket idiots because theyre not TEAM Rocket just a small part of it) so much i stay behind the frickin Leader that apears in more Games

also could we please stop this disscusion im getting really fed up

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

[QUOTE="Oracle Link, post: 24182131, member: 471717"
also could we please stop this disscusion im getting really fed up
[/QUOTE]
If you don't want to be part of a thread or discussion anymore, the easiest thing to do is to not reply to it and hit the "Unwatch Thread" button near the top of the page. You also have the freedom to mute certain users if you wish.

 

[Oracle Link]

[QUOTE="Oracle Link, post: 24182131, member: 471717"
also could we please stop this disscusion im getting really fed up

If you don't want to be part of a thread or discussion anymore, the easiest thing to do is to not reply to it and hit the "Unwatch Thread" button near the top of the page. You also have the freedom to mute certain users if you wish.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the hint

 

[UserKev]

Mr. Resetti over Tom Nook. There are way more things you can do with Resetti than Tom Nook.
Breath of The Wild Zelda over Toon Zelda
Prince (Prince of Persia) over Christin

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

I think the two of us have different definitions of the word "merit."

By its Merriam-Webster definition, it is a multiple meaning word. The very first definition under a) lists it as "a praiseworthy quality"

Source

Waluigi's expertise in defense and technique are praiseworthy qualities as that is something he has over the rest of the Mario cast.

So no, I'm not.

 

[crazybenjamin]

The very first definition under a) lists it as "a praiseworthy quality"

And I consider Toad's near-perfect attendance in the Mario series to be "praiseworthy." Again, we just interpret "merit" in different ways.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

• I'd easily have taken Mr. Resetti over Isabelle. She's still pretty fun and they did a good job making her feel interesting.
• Fulgore over Banjo & Kazooie any day of the week.
• Slime over Hero, though I am satisfied.

Honestly, that feels like that's it. At least for confirmed ones.

• Shadow over any other Sonic character bar maybe Metal Sonic.
• Toad over Geno or Captain Toad. Not that I don't like Geno, mind you.
• Urshifu over any other Gen 8 right now. Specifically with a tag-out style that properly represents both styles. So similar to Pokemon Trainer, just with no one in the background.
• Scorpion over Sub-Zero. Both are great, though. But I want the current face now.
• Hector over Lyn, because I legit want an ax user.

Note that at one point I did want Mimikyu over Incineroar, but I've changed my mind on that, so. I'm borderline for Master Chief, but frankly I really wanted Steve anyway. I will say, though, I wanted Herobrine as a costume, probably over Enderman. Zombie is sweet.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

And I consider Toad's near-perfect attendance in the Mario series to be "praiseworthy." Again, we just interpret "merit" in different ways.

We really don't, as you are just placing merit on the wrong individual. The attendance thing isn't really a praiseworthy quality written to be done out of his own power and his own will like how Waluigi has the merits of his defense and technical skills because he actually trains for them. It's a "merit" of the developers and writers in their consistency of refusing to do anything interesting with any other Mario characters. You can praise the devs and writers for putting Toad in almost every Mario game despite them not DOING anything of merit that other Mario characters could easily excel at on a far greater level if said writers and devs had any merit making good use of the wide variety of Mario characters available to them. If they did have any merit in that, we would have easily gotten more out of Pauline besides the Mario vs DK games before Odyssey or them NOT getting called out on their "we can only use pre-existing Mario characters" nonsense for Origami King. Those are just some examples. In fact, it's because if that that Toad's attendance hardly comes off as a merit, let alone praiseworthy.

 

[UserKev]

We really don't, as you are just placing merit on the wrong individual. The attendance thing isn't really a praiseworthy quality written to be done out of his own power and his own will like how Waluigi has the merits of his defense and technical skills because he actually trains for them. It's a "merit" of the developers and writers in their consistency of refusing to do anything interesting with any other Mario characters. You can praise the devs and writers for putting Toad in almost every Mario game despite them not DOING anything of merit that other Mario characters could easily excel at on a far greater level if said writers and devs had any merit making good use of the wide variety of Mario characters available to them. If they did have any merit in that, we would have easily gotten more out of Pauline besides the Mario vs DK games before Odyssey or them NOT getting called out on their "we can only use pre-existing Mario characters" nonsense for Origami King. Those are just some examples. In fact, it's because if that that Toad's attendance hardly comes off as a merit, let alone praiseworthy.

Uh, you kinda already made the point for Waluigi a long time ago. I even agree. Best to drop this debate, its kinda derailing the thread, honestly.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Uh, you kinda already made the point for Waluigi a long time ago. I even agree. Best to drop this debate, its kinda derailing the thread, honestly.

I recommend you also tell that to other person too as they also dragged this out and can also keep it from continuing by also not replying. I can reply as I please and the whole point of this thread was what character over another and I'm just giving reasons towards one character over another, so I can't really say I see how it derails anything.

 

[UserKev]

I recommend you also tell that to other person too as they also dragged this out and can also keep it from continuing by also not replying. I can reply as I please and the whole point of this thread was what character over another and I'm just giving reasons towards one character over another, so I can't really say I see how it derails anything.

Not calling you out or anything. You didn't need to respond to his last post tho. Many users in this thread want characters over characters I want, but I'm not debating with them over it. "Shrugs"

 

[Pupp135]

Another preference I have is an FE nonsworduser over Lyn

 

[crazybenjamin]

We really don't, as you are just placing merit on the wrong individual. The attendance thing isn't really a praiseworthy quality written to be done out of his own power and his own will like how Waluigi has the merits of his defense and technical skills because he actually trains for them. It's a "merit" of the developers and writers in their consistency of refusing to do anything interesting with any other Mario characters. You can praise the devs and writers for putting Toad in almost every Mario game despite them not DOING anything of merit that other Mario characters could easily excel at on a far greater level if said writers and devs had any merit making good use of the wide variety of Mario characters available to them. If they did have any merit in that, we would have easily gotten more out of Pauline besides the Mario vs DK games before Odyssey or them NOT getting called out on their "we can only use pre-existing Mario characters" nonsense for Origami King. Those are just some examples. In fact, it's because if that that Toad's attendance hardly comes off as a merit, let alone praiseworthy.

When I talk about "merit" I'm not referring to in-universe canon power, I'm talking about how important the character is to the franchise.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Not calling you out or anything. You didn't need to respond to his last post tho. Many users in this thread want characters over characters I want, but I'm not debating with them over it. "Shrugs"

I didn't have to. I wanted to. The post I was originally replying to involved Toad allegedly getting less than Waluigi which is not true.

When I talk about "merit" I'm not referring to in-universe canon power, I'm talking about how important the character is to the franchise.

Which ultimately comes down to tone deafness towards fan outcry on lack of variety and originality, which I already brought up in my previous reply. Toad is only "important" cuz the devs and writers give him more to do over other characters that could easily accomplish more, yet he hardly does anything special especially since it's an entire race of mushroom people with so few differences compared to how they used to design them.

 

[crazybenjamin]

Which ultimately comes down to tone deafness towards fan outcry on lack of variety and originality, which I already brought up in my previous reply. Toad is only "important" cuz the devs and writers give him more to do over other characters that could easily accomplish more, yet he hardly does anything special especially since it's an entire race of mushroom people with so few differences compared to how they used to design them.

I just don't see it the same way, the way that I see it, Toad is a major part of the Mario series, so it doesn't make sense for him to be excluded.

Maybe if people didn't make all these excuses to justify cutting Chrom I wouldn't be railing against the "fan demand is the most important thing" crowd (I'm not directing this at you specifically, I'm talking about other people)

 

[UserKev]

Lynel over any other Nintendo enemies

 

[Janx_uwu]

Noctis over Sephiroth.