The Big MI Discussion Topic

[What's The Point]

I only play at tournaments, maybe with fZk for a couple hours the week before.

After Iris all smashfests sucked.

 

[Roller]

I miss Iris apartment smashfests... Drinking with Judge and The Mann... Drunk dialing Anther... Those were the days.

 

[Aceplayer]

Everyone in Brawl should just play Melee instead.

Yo I'd let this happen.

Sure we'd get 100s of Jigglypuff and Falco players. Camp camp camp

But its better than the other thing.


Also Ban Gio, not MK

 

[lordhelmet]

West Michigan smashfests let's g0

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

So your saying we have to change the whole stage list to make it so MK isn't so broken? What about the other 30 plus chars in the cast.

uhhhhh yeah? the other chars aren't as good so we dont need to worry about them? i dont see the problem here.

and yeah m2k plays like a ***** but i think it's pretty ignorant to just point at what m2k does and assume every MK on earth is going to be able to mimic him

 

[Zankoku]

uhhhhh yeah? the other chars aren't as good so we dont need to worry about them? i dont see the problem here.

lol well that's no good

Yeah, we're not supposed to cater to the bottom or anything, but cutting out 90% of the game's content just for one character is overdoing it.

I don't believe Meta Knight needs to be banned, but you really ought to reconsider your argument if it consists of "no guys, if we just take out all these things that might make MK good then he's no longer unbeatable, just the best character in the game!"

I mean, we're all just playing a flashy version of rock paper scissors here featuring Nintendo characters, but I'd at least like to keep the word "characters" plural.

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

i'm not in favor of cutting characters. just not playing stupid stages. like the japanese do. or how it's done in smash 64. the melee stagelist has only gotten shorter and shorter over time. i think it's time for brawl to have a much tighter stagelist, and if we do that, people wont ***** about MK as much. that's all im sayin.

 

[Zankoku]

I like Japan, and really enjoyed their recent Melee finals set consisting of Hyrule Temple, Final Destination, and Dream Land 64.

But I think I've already given my thoughts on trying to skeletonize stage lists.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Can we kill the MK discussion? We've already done this in the MI thread. There is absolutely no reason to drag this into a second thread. Its not fair to the Melee players at all.

 

[Apasher]

^this

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

well all this melee/brawl talk isnt fair to us 64 players :'(

 

[Zankoku]

The difference is that the only time people talk about 64 in here it's about how they didn't bring a setup to the last tourney and that they should've.

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

ok fine

so how does everyone feel about banning pikachu?

best recovery by far, 60/40 or better matchups with the rest of the cast, almost unbeatable on dreamland, best gimping game, highest priority attacks in the game, insane disjointed hitboxes, a ridiculous amount of 0-deaths, and up B is a combo breaker

 

[Apasher]

how about this, ban no one :O

 

[Pimp Daddy Supreme]

can this be the new shaq face PLEASE

 

[Dre the Ace]

omg

I can't tell if that's hair or just ****ty picture quality.

 

[JonathantheMeSa]

That is troll hair obviously

 

[Moooose]

Can we kill the MK discussion? We've already done this in the MI thread. There is absolutely no reason to drag this into a second thread. Its not fair to the Melee players at all.

its actually fine. MI melee doesn't really read this thread. In fact MI melee doesnt really smashboards...

 

[Juggleguy]

its actually fine. MI melee doesn't really read this thread. In fact MI melee doesnt really smashboards...

That's the one thing that irks me about MI Melee... we do an awful job of hyping things up on Smashboards before events, lol.

For example, people need to post more in The Big House thread... hint hint

 

[Dre the Ace]

 

[SamuraiPanda]

....Reread my post. Banning MK was only a very minor part of it. Everyone here is missing the point and just jumping on bandwagon ideas (big surprise).

If people are quitting or the game is getting old for many people, then you should identify WHY and tackle that problem first before recruiting new people who will eventually run into the same wall. Is it a lack of character variety? Then ban MK. Are sets too long? Then convert to 2 stock. Are games too defensive? Then think about experimenting with adding some items or lower the timer. Are the stages too repetitive? Then try throwing in some custom stages.

And you don't need to run entire tournaments with experimental rules, either. Just make $1 buy-in side tournaments with whatever rules you're experimenting with and gauge the reaction of the players. Don't be afraid to challenge the arbitrary conventions the BBR set in place. Most of the time there isn't a solid reason behind why some things were chosen by the BBR, like 3 stock vs 2 stock. Michigan even ran a 2 stock tourney, go watch some of the "We Ain't Ann Arbor 6" tournament videos and see what you think (it was a looooong time ago but the matches actually ARE slightly more entertaining to watch IMO).

The bottom line is: A slightly different tournament scene is better than no tournament scene at all. Figure out why the scene is dying and what you could do to fix that problem. Thats the only way for the scene to stay alive.

IDENTIFY WHY THE SCENE IS DYING FIRST.

Is it MK? Is it liberal stages? Is it too time consuming? Once you figure that out, then discuss how to fix the problem. Don't just automatically assume the problem is MK or Brinstar and immediately jump to banning them.

You guys are really bad at nurturing a tournament scene.

 

[Zankoku]

The problem I hinted at was that there are no more SamuraiPandas or IrisKongs in the scene, meaning "smashfests" seem to be little more than a few people playing the same friends who live next door over and over. Who knows, though. That might be more of an issue of not all of you being awesome and living in Ann Arbor.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Who knows, though. That might be more of an issue of not all of you being awesome and living in Ann Arbor.

The real issue presents itself. Now to figure out a way to smuggle all of you foreigners into our glorious city.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

As an aside, after not even touching a GC controller for 2+ years now, I've gained a bit of perspective of Smash vs other fighters and how Smash is less entertaining from a spectator's side.

For Smash to rival other fighters in terms of entertainment, it needs to have faster matches and less time between games. I honestly think that 2-stock best of three games would vastly improve Smash even if it seems less fun to play at first. And setting a time limit between games (like 1-2 minutes max) would help the pacing out significantly.

One of the biggest problems with Brawl has always been how incredibly long the game takes. Tournaments take all day and run into the wee hours of the night. Imagine how much of a commitment a tournament like that is for someone who has a job or a family. It limits the people who can be part of the scene to those who can spare entire days on a regular basis. And thats only ONE of the MANY problems these long tournaments can/have caused. Don't even get me started on getting kicked out of venues.

EDIT: I should flesh this out and post a thread somewhere that could potentially make a difference and/or be subjected to ridicule.

 

[Vaccine]

anyone want to play melee sometime this week before the tournament

 

[Roller]

Panda, I like where you're coming from.

The only problem though, is that making the time limit ~2 minutes only encourages timeouts. I would honestly go for timeouts way more under those rules.

 

[JonathantheMeSa]

He was talking about time limit between games....

 

[Zankoku]

Here, try something like this.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=119358

 

[What's The Point]

IDENTIFY WHY THE SCENE IS DYING FIRST.

How? Do we call up everyone that has quit and asked? Do we ask the new people who don't show up why they won't show up again?

What you seem to be saying as your main point is that tournaments take to long. Which is true, and some rule changes could help but the biggest issue has always been people simply not playing when they could be.

Here, try something like this.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=119358

All that did was drop it from 3 stocks to 2.

 

[Dre the Ace]

anyone want to play melee sometime this week before the tournament

I do, maybe tomorrow or Thursday.

 

[Zankoku]

All that did was drop it from 3 stocks to 2.

I spent a lot of work trying to figure out how to set up rules around a stage list that no longer runs on the concept of CP-only stages :<

 

[What's The Point]

If anything the stage selection would take longer. People get more bans and you have to do them all at the beginning, so most people would spend more time thinking about it.

 

[JonathantheMeSa]

WTP how is saying ban mk ban mk helping bring people in? Seems like it's just driving people who are playing away, and the same thing you said to Samurai should be applied to you, should we call up those people and ask if they quit cuz of mk? You're coming at this at one angle and one angle only.

 

[What's The Point]

Well, after a moment of thinking, the actual way to do it is o to get new people in. And at the event ask them if they will come back, and if they won't ask them to explain why. The scene has been dead to for long to bother asking Coco why he doesn't show up anymore. You'll mostly get generic answers like "bored" and "school". So apparently Roller will need to get on that.

Banning MK is a completely unrelated issue to MI's dying scene. And as I've said, I've been throwing it out there because I want to see it tried out. It's more of an overall Brawl issue since he dominates tournaments.

Thoough it could be a gimmick to get people to show up, since what we're currently doing isn't drawing people in besides the same 15.

 

[Solharath]

Damage Ratio set to 1.1 $1 side tournament. (1v1)

There can only be one.

 

[Vaccine]

I do, maybe tomorrow or Thursday.

awesome! if anyone else wants to play within the next two days let me know.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Here, try something like this.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=119358

Not bad, but the stage selection system wouldn't work. We tried the "strike down from the full list" for a good while, and people just didn't take to it. Too hard for most people to remember all the stages, eliminated wildcard counterpicks (a last ditch effort for some people), and became too tedious to continually turn on all the stages and turn them off again.

I, personally, was a fan of the system. But most people just didn't care for it unfortunately. I do agree with you that Smash's CP system is at fault for the long times between games, though. Maybe that CP method would finally catch on if the 2-stock idea does well. It'd be interesting to see.

How? Do we call up everyone that has quit and asked? Do we ask the new people who don't show up why they won't show up again? ....The scene has been dead to for long to bother asking Coco why he doesn't show up anymore. You'll mostly get generic answers like "bored" and "school". So apparently Roller will need to get on that.

Sure why not? Thats one method of several that you could take. If this "Coco" person gives you an answer like "bored" then you ask WHY. If he/she says "school" then you ask why they feel like they can't do both. Generic answers aren't generic at all; they are the most common statistical reason for why people quit. You're just interpreting it wrong.

Take me for example; I went to medical school so I quit. Is that all there was to it? No. Ask me for more details and I'll tell you that I just couldn't dedicate entire days to single tournaments. I quit because tournaments took so long that I could no longer balance my life with my hobby. The solution? Figure out how to make the game faster, like going 2-stock.

Damage Ratio set to 1.1 $1 side tournament. (1v1)

There can only be one.

We tried that for a little while and it was actually really fun. I forget why we decided against it though. I think there was something (or multiple things) that were broken in 1.1, like D3 getting a standing infinite grab on a lot of the cast or something like that.

 

[Aceplayer]

Not falccooooooooooooooo

 

[Solharath]

We tried that for a little while and it was actually really fun. I forget why we decided against it though. I think there was something (or multiple things) that were broken in 1.1, like D3 getting a standing infinite grab on a lot of the cast or something like that.

Then try going 0.9. Something similar but different.

But I hear the main problem was that changing up damage ratio's didn't actually react the same in an online environment, and people got pissy over that. I don't remember every detail, honestly, but I know that was a part of it.

 

[Vaccine]

i main now