Q&A The Barracks - Robin Q&A Thread [ASK GAMEPLAY QUESTIONS HERE]

[Krysco]

Gonna ask this on behalf of my cousin since he doesn't frequent this site like I do and I rarely fight other Robins but what is the optimal di for getting out of Arcfire? It's up and away right?

 

[Lawliet626]

Greetings robin mains
Does robin happen to have any follow ups/kill set ups from his dropped tomes/swords which can be used for item play later on?
And do you guys feel as if another character could have combos / follow ups from grabbing them from robin?

 

[Steegan]

Hey! I really enjoy playing Robin, and might end up maining her, but when I've used her at tournaments I do well until I play against someone who can juggle me. I have difficulty landing, and do not know the safest ways to land. What do you guys recommend a budding Robin player should fo to land safely?

 

[Nah]

Robin's kinda strapped for landing options really. Elwind, Nosferatu, and B-reversing Thunder charge are all situationally useful so those are something to keep in mind. Lot of the time you kinda just have to go down to the ledge and work things out from there. That's all I know anyway.

 

[McZaxon]

I know the answer is in here somewhere and this is a pointless question to ask, but U really want to pick up Robin as a potential main. I, however, don't know how to throw her Tome/Sword freely.

Any advice is helpful. Thank you!

 

[GaleOmega]

Has anyone gotten their hands on robin's hitbox maps? I've searched the forums and haven't come up with anything. I would like to know cause it's easier to visualize for me. If not, I guess going into practice mode on 1/4 speed would be my best way to ingrain their range and speed? Thanks in advance

 

[Raziek]

I know the answer is in here somewhere and this is a pointless question to ask, but U really want to pick up Robin as a potential main. I, however, don't know how to throw her Tome/Sword freely.

Any advice is helpful. Thank you!

Break them by using them the appropriate number of times (8 sword swings, 6 arcfires, 4 Nos's, 9 Elwinds, 3 Thorons), then catch the item.

Merging to Q&A thread.

 

[Raziek]

Hey! I really enjoy playing Robin, and might end up maining her, but when I've used her at tournaments I do well until I play against someone who can juggle me. I have difficulty landing, and do not know the safest ways to land. What do you guys recommend a budding Robin player should fo to land safely?

Most of it is judicious use of double-jump and airdodge, and knowing when you have to concede space and just go to the ledge.

As was mentioned, defensive Elwind and B-reverse charge are also situationally useful.

Merging to Q&A thread.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

How does Rage affect D-Throw follow-ups? Is there a general trend of what characters eat U-Air more easily after D-Throw (fall speed, weight, etc.), or is it fairly universal?

 

[Nah]

How does Rage affect D-Throw follow-ups? Is there a general trend of what characters eat U-Air more easily after D-Throw (fall speed, weight, etc.), or is it fairly universal?

Basically the lighter the character is the easier it is to connect the Uair after the Dthrow, because Robin's throws are all weight dependent. Fall speed affects it like how you think it would, in that fastfallers are easy to do it on and floaties harder. So lightweight fastfallers like Sheik and Fox are super easy to Checkmate while Samus (who is both heavy and floaty) is more difficult to do it on. Weight seems to be the more important factor than fall speed though.

As for rage, iirc it just shifts the range it works at down a bit (on both ends), though I'm not 100% certain on how rage affects Robin's throws and follow-ups.

 

[Sonnance]

So, I'm sure this has been asked before, but I haven't been able to find it, but is there ever any reason to not hold B on Thoron? The best I could think of is if you read that it'll be reflected, but I can't imagine that would help too much. Plus if you can see it coming, you're probably not gonna be throwing it out.

 

[Rectal]

So, I'm sure this has been asked before, but I haven't been able to find it, but is there ever any reason to not hold B on Thoron? The best I could think of is if you read that it'll be reflected, but I can't imagine that would help too much. Plus if you can see it coming, you're probably not gonna be throwing it out.

The only other reason I can think of would be the extra 9 active frames, which could leave you slightly more open to punishment.

What you said about reflection applies the same way to the attack missing though; if you can see it missing you're probably not going to be throwing it out.

In either case, if you're going for a read which could potentially result in reflection or a miss, you could theoretically use normal Thoron as a way to hedge your bets. In general going for a guaranteed hit is probably better.

 

[Sonnance]

Yeah, true. Maybe it could be used as a mixup? Condition them to shield the held version, but surprise them by not holding it? Or if you intentionally miss just to control space? Not exactly crazy useful stuff, though.

 

[Player -0]

I heard tomes/Levin jab reset at low percents but I was wondering if Elwind 1 (the meteor) jab reset too.

Mainly wondering because F-Tilt platform pushoff -> Fast Fall Elwind 1 -> Arcfire/etc would be cool.

 

[Delzethin]

I heard tomes/Levin jab reset at low percents but I was wondering if Elwind 1 (the meteor) jab reset too.

Mainly wondering because F-Tilt platform pushoff -> Fast Fall Elwind 1 -> Arcfire/etc would be cool.

I want to say it's doable, but it's so difficult to pull off mid-match that it's impractical.

 

[Player -0]

I played a bit of Smash 4 today and I want to say it resets.

I can't imagine the falling Elwind to be too difficult to execute considering everything else in the game.

I dunno, seems like a good setup considering otherwise you'd need to just fall Fair or something. Also I feel like more moves than just F-Tilt slide off platforms (actually didn't check) so bronze Fair/Dair/Nair maybe?

 

[HenryXLII]

Hey I have been wondering, whats the hitbox when Robin throws away their books/swords? Sometimes they damage for me, and sometimes they land on the opponent and go right through them. I would like to be able to use this reliably to make certain plays more safe.

 

[Sonnance]

Hey I have been wondering, whats the hitbox when Robin throws away their books/swords? Sometimes they damage for me, and sometimes they land on the opponent and go right through them. I would like to be able to use this reliably to make certain plays more safe.

Robin's discards function the same as projectiles. That is, they won't hurt you unless they're reflected or caught by an enemy. If an enemy reflects or catches them, it becomes theirs and will hurt you but not them. As for it not hitting them while it's still yours, I believe it loses it's hitbox after it bounces from a discard (but not a toss.)

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

When shielding Arcfire and Arcthunder, which direction should I roll in? Does spot dodging help any if I'm already shielding?

 

[ARGHETH]

When shielding Arcfire and Arcthunder, which direction should I roll in? Does spot dodging help any if I'm already shielding?

Roll in on a shielded Arcfire, you can get punish the endlag. Arcthunder depends on how far away you are, but generally roll away (it has ~30-35 frames of endlag, and Ike's roll has a FAF of 33). If you're already shielding...I'd say don't spotdodge unless it's near the end of the trap and the Robin's busy charging Thunder or something.

 

[Jakkun]

My apologies if this is a very noobish question, can anybody tell me what I can do after I get an Arcfire to connect? Sometimes I can have the opponent roll into it, and I feel like I should be able to do something off of it, but perhaps its my execution..? Sometimes the contrary happens and they can shield out of it and punish me with a grab...any advice at all would be much appreciated!

 

[ARGHETH]

My apologies if this is a very noobish question, can anybody tell me what I can do after I get an Arcfire to connect? Sometimes I can have the opponent roll into it, and I feel like I should be able to do something off of it, but perhaps its my execution..? Sometimes the contrary happens and they can shield out of it and punish me with a grab...any advice at all would be much appreciated!

Arcfire--> Levin aerial (Fair, Uair, maybe RAR Bair?) works consistently. You can try Arcthunder/Arcfire again/Nosferatu if you want to be cute, but it isn't recommended.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Ended up losing to Dath 2-1, and lost in an MM 3-2. In the latter, my misinputs seriously cost me Game 4. Also, he airdodged through my airdodge-read Fairs, which was just poor timing on my part. I thought Robin might have an extra frame or two of airdodge time, but upon checking KH, that's not true.

That being said, my biggest concern in the matchup is Robin's Fair autocancel to jabs. He would approach with autocancel Fairs, land into jabs before I could grab or DTilt. Granted, I now see Robin's jab is Frame 4 (vs. my Frame 7 grab and DTilt). I imagine jabs would clank, but also put me in a risky position.

How can I punish this?

Also note, he started using this once he kept popping my shield with approach Fairs and I would respond by DTilting since they weren't safe.

 

[Wnyke]

I was looking for a combo's post but I couldn't find it... anyway... here are the "discoveries" I made...

The most optimal combo with arcfire I could get is:
Arcfire->L.F.air->2nd Jump N.air->L.F.air, which works from 5%-25% (on most of the cast), this will do 38~40%, sadly is not a true combo, since your opponent can dodge the las F.air attempt... anyway... you can use B.F.air finisher too if you are vs little mac or cloud, dr. mario, so they would be sent far enough to be unable to reache the stage back.

2nd, I found a combo involving frame cancel:
Regular Falling L.Fair (FrameCancel)->L.Fair-> 2ndJump N.air-> F.air. Only works at low percents, and I tried to do it with the bronze sword but I couldn't, also I wasn't able to frame cancel while fast falling. Anyway this is not really great, since it requires Frame Canceling and unless your opponent drops the shield as you approach, this won't work, but looks kind of cool.
Similar to the previous one
Regular Falling L.U.air (FrameCancel)-->L.F.air-> L.F.air. Low Percents again...

Lastly the least useful kill set up I know with robin
L.U.air (back sourspot)->B.air/Arcfire, It is hard to pull of since I rarely see an opportunity to do it, cause I never expect the sour spot to land...

If this already existed then, guess I repeated them then...

Also I've been Struggling vs Cloud, I don't know how but every attempt to gimp him I fail horribly, I got hit when trying to ledgetump... How do you guys gimp with robin???

 

[Dream Cancel]

Also I've been Struggling vs Cloud, I don't know how but every attempt to gimp him I fail horribly, I got hit when trying to ledgetump... How do you guys gimp with robin???

Both hits of Nair send opponents at a pretty terrible angle (30 degrees to be specific) and are fantastic at gimping Cloud. (Nair 2 sends him behind you though) Nair 2 also catches air dodges so that's good if he likes to Air dodge through you. (although you should punish air dodges harder than with Nair like) It's not the most powerful like L.Bair but the angle more than makes up for the lack of power.

Should he try to ward you off with a Fair or Nair you should use any Thunder spell or Arcfire to directly challenge it, or wait and try to sneak an aerial while he's in end lag. Thunder and Elthunder are good at stealing double jumps and Elthunder has a decent amount of power and good damage. Arcthunder has the potential for kills and Levin aerial follow-ups or just Nair. Thoron can kill and is fairly quick but it sends Cloud mostly vertical, especially if he DIs in, which he should be doing in the first place.

Arcfire has similar follw-ups to Arcthunder but Cloud may fall out of it so look for how your opponent SDIs and tries to escape it. If he does escape it will usually be through an air dodge so be ready for a follow-up.

Should all of that fail your D-tilt can catch him trying to snap ledge and you'll at least trade with it if your spacing is any good. It won't gimp him but it can reset the edgeguard attempt. F-tilt sends Cloud at a worse angle (for him, better angle for Robin) but rarely will a Cloud be high enough above the ledge to get hit with that.

Arcfire at the ledge can mess with Cloud's lack of ledge snap; You'll get free damage but he'll be sent at a good angle for him to make it back to the stage.

As per usual, watch for his get-up options of choice and respect his range. Challenging his Fair with your aerials will trade, but you'll get spiked so that's a poor trade for Robin. (He has more range)

Elwind 1 and L. Dair will beat or trade with both Limit and non-Limit Climhazzard, and Limit Climhazzard has no hitbox on the second half of the move, so don't be scared to mess with it. Just be careful because you can get stage spiked and it does good damage. Elwind 1 and L. Dair can easily end Cloud's stock and are the best punishes for airdodges.

Also, WATCH WHEN HE LIKES TO DOUBLE JUMP. A Cloud without it is a dead Cloud so you need to finish him 100% of the time when this happens. Go play some Melee and edgeguard Marth and that's basically how edgeguarding Cloud feels. (And yes Fox's Shine in Smash 4 is good enough to Shine Spike Cloud lol)

Ledge trump ---> Bair is good but slow since Robin's instant ledge trump from the stage isn't that fast and it can be interrupted by Cloud's recovery. The best way to ledge trump him is to follow his recovery or short hop above the ledge then trump him.

D-Smash can trade with his Up-B, and is best to outright kill him instead of gimping him. Your spacing needs to be good though because he can catch your feet with his recovery. Hell, you can even Nosferatu his recovery if he's sloppy lol.

Hope this helps you trash pocket Clouds.

 

[Casey Chase]

How should I take advantage of someone on the ledge? Obviously Arcfire covers a lot of options, but what else can/should I be doing to keep the opponent in a disadvantaged state?

 

[Dream Cancel]

How should I take advantage of someone on the ledge? Obviously Arcfire covers a lot of options, but what else can/should I be doing to keep the opponent in a disadvantaged state?

1) Consider their options.
2) Recall their habits.

After that is Robin-specific info. You can charge Thunder to Elthunder in 0.5 seconds (or try for Arcthunder) to pressure them to challenge your charge. Then the next time around they may hastily get off the ledge expecting a Thunder charge. D-Smash covers many options but you need good reactions or a slight read on their grounded ledge option.

If you're moving around or short hopping within ledge roll distance of the ledge they may pre-emptively choose an option, so you can punish with a Levin aerial or any Pivot action. (Neutral get-up is popular against pivot tilts and Jumping/rolling is popular against shielding at the ledge) If they decide to wait you can charge your Thunder ome or go for your slowish ledge trump. You could even try run-off Elwind but I haven't labbed that yet.

Your best bet is a read imo. Be observant in neutral and watch how they like to avoid your traps. Do they jump? Shield? Dash Attack? Use a special gap closer? Roll in or away? Offensive actions usually indicate offensive ledge options (like ledge drop double jump Fair or Side B) and vice versa.

 

[WispBae]

Technical question, but if an opponent airdodges an Up-Air and Robin is falling with them, would another Up-Air frame trap them?

 

[ARGHETH]

Technical question, but if an opponent airdodges an Up-Air and Robin is falling with them, would another Up-Air frame trap them?

Probably not, there's 33 frames in between Uairs (hitboxes on 10-23, FAF of 46).

 

[WispBae]

Probably not, there's 33 frames in between Uairs (hitboxes on 10-23, FAF of 46).

Looking through Kurogane's frame data then, could Robin perhaps throw out a Fair, when airdodged, could be strung into an Up-Air?

 

[ARGHETH]

Looking through Kurogane's frame data then, could Robin perhaps throw out a Fair, when airdodged, could be strung into an Up-Air?

I...think so? I'm not really familiar with airdodge stuff, but the 32 frames in between Fair and Uair's first hitboxes, which should catch another airdodge.
(assuming they airdodge on the same framethat the Fair hits, it should work against most of the cast.)

 

[WispBae]

I...think so? I'm not really familiar with airdodge stuff, but the 32 frames in between Fair and Uair's first hitboxes, which should catch another airdodge.
(assuming they airdodge on the same framethat the Fair hits, it should work against most of the cast.)

I'll lab with a friend or a level 9 computer, get a definite answer and check back here.

 

[Zareidriel]

Looking through Kurogane's frame data then, could Robin perhaps throw out a Fair, when airdodged, could be strung into an Up-Air?

Yeah you can do that, I do it to humans all the time.

 

[Nah]

The new My Smash Corner video got me thinking, is there any movement tech that actually provides a significant benefit to Robin (according the recent thread in the competitive section about it, Robin's step-dash is awful short/garbage)? Not that I'm aware of all the techs in this game, but I always had the impression that most movement techs don't seem to do much for her.

not like I'd be able to do any of the techs anyway ;_;

 

[ARGHETH]

The new My Smash Corner video got me thinking, is there any movement tech that actually provides a significant benefit to Robin (according the recent thread in the competitive section about it, Robin's step-dash is awful short/garbage)? Not that I'm aware of all the techs in this game, but I always had the impression that most movement techs don't seem to do much for her.

not like I'd be able to do any of the techs anyway ;_;

Probably not if it has anything to do with moving on the ground lol.

 

[Krysco]

To make the most out of the movement techs Sm4sh has, you tend to need good movement to start with. Can't really recall any movement tech helping the likes of (except for a specific one in the mu)(there's one that lets her fast fall faster than usual if she has her float but that's about it) or whatever other 'slow' characters I haven't listed. I could always just be forgetting a tech or be uninformed about a tech helping any of these characters but my first sentence of this post, for the most part, still applies.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[ARGHETH]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

Levin Sword: 8 uses, 6 second respawn
Thunder: 20 uses, 10 second respawn
-------Thunder: 1 use
-------Elthunder: 3 uses
-------Arcthunder: 5 uses
-------Thoron: 8 uses
Arcfire: 6 uses, 10 second respawn
-------Arcfire and regular jab both use one use.
Elwind: 9 uses, 6 second respawn
-------Each blade of Elwind uses half a use.
-------Rapid jab uses one use every two seconds.
Nosferatu: 4 uses, 40 second respawn
-------Command grab, puts Robin into freefall after use in air.

 

[marekage]

greetings,

Today i notice something weird when i was fighting against an Ike's opponent.
We were both in the air, while Ike was charging his side B and unleash it towards me, i was charging Neutral B, but the fact is...Ike's side B didn't hit me, like as if my charging protected me from the attack ( the charge has some hitbox maybe ?). So i could easily grab him (or do whatever i want) after we land on ground.

Maybe it is some weird properties about side B's Ike and not Robin's charges.

edit: sorry if i posted in the wrong section, i just wanted to share and see if someone has been dealing with that situation

edit2: ok it s something relevant to Ike's side B not Robin

 

[ARGHETH]

Nah, Ike's Side B hitbox just sucks. Thunder charge doesn't have any hitboxes on it.