Q&A The Barracks - Robin Q&A Thread [ASK GAMEPLAY QUESTIONS HERE]

[Casey Chase]

Robin was my secondary ever since the game came out, and about 7 months ago I had finally started to make him my primary main. I feel as though I've improved a lot with him since then, but I've somewhat hit a wall where I'm not really getting any better with him. I'm not crazy good and feel as though I have a lot to learn, but I have no idea how to go about improving any further. Due to this wall, I'm thinking I might drop Robin, even though I really enjoy playing as him.

If you're not improving, that might be an issue of you not being able to face good players all the time. This probably goes for all characters; I doubt it's a Robin-only problem.

Basic things to work on:

• Catching items
• Spacing in general
• Landing mixups (elwind, b-reversed thunder, doing literally nothing)
• CHECKMATE and other throw combos
• Maaaaaaaybe seeing how deep you can go with elwind for gimps
• Ledgetrumping (though you should mix it up sometimes)

I'm somewhat limited due to my college's internet not being the best. For Glory is out of the question and I don't get to battle my friends as often as I would like. I've been mainly fighting level 9 CPUs which I know is not the best for training purposes.

How bad is "not the best"? I'm assuming FG is out of the question because of how bad the connection is, not because of the players. If it's passable, you could always try Anther's Ladder, as people tend to have better connections there. You could also look for a local scene or other local players.

Things to work on with people, once you get to play them:

• Throwing/dropping items at unpredictable/unpunishable times
• Baiting out certain actions from your opponents, like punishing an airdodge to the ground with arcfire or dsmashing an opponent who thought you were gonna checkmate him/her
• Gimps

 

[Player -0]

Oh hey, it's Umi.

If anyone is ever seeking to improve I pretty much always advise improving their fundamentals. Even watching high level matches isn't that helpful in my opinion (for fundamentals. Cool combos/punishes/what they do/etc is always cool) until you get to a sufficiently skilled level/tell what's happening.

Playing other characters might be useful to you for learning how to truly play the game but I doubt you truly need to drop the character as a whole. If you do play other characters make sure you don't play a character that's similar to Robin. Play a character with a drastically different spacing area like Sheik or Puff.

You said you were on a college wifi, which I assume means you're also in college. If you have an extra controller you could check if your room mate/people nearby want to chill. Of course I'd advise only befriending nice/etc people.

Changing your mindset/understanding will help you more than any flashy techniques/combos/etc ever will in my opinion. Don't think about where they are, think about where they will be.

 

[Cherpumple]

Casey Chase Thanks for all the advice. My college wifi is terrible. I've attempted FG with little success as the lag was just way too present. I've found some local players that are around my level and we do have weekly matches. There's a Smash Club at my university but all the players there are extremely high level. I got destroyed by one of them at a local tourney. I will definitely try to improve and work the things you've listed in to my strategy and see how it goes. I have already worked on and implemented a bit of what you've listed but the others look new. I've never used Anther's ladder but I may give it a go!

Maaaaaaaybe seeing how deep you can go with elwind for gimps

Haha I think all my friends can agree that I tend to go a little too deep!

Player -0 I would say I play a wide variety of characters, though maybe not as much as I would like. I actually taught my roommate's boyfriend how to play Smash a few months ago and our matches keep getting closer which is really nice because it's giving me a frequent sparring partner! I also have a few friends that I play with on a weekly basis. One of them is actually really even with me and we tend to have some pretty close matches. What do you mean by changing my mindset though? Thanks for the advice!

 

[Casey Chase]

I've found some local players that are around my level and we do have weekly matches. There's a Smash Club at my university but all the players there are extremely high level. I got destroyed by one of them at a local tourney.

Getting demolished is part of the learning process. Ask these kinds of people for friendlies. When they destroy you, they usually can see your habits. By playing them and asking for pointers, you can correct those habits as well as learn how to read and punish opponents.

 

[Cherpumple]

Getting demolished is part of the learning process. Ask these kinds of people for friendlies. When they destroy you, they usually can see your habits. By playing them and asking for pointers, you can correct those habits as well as learn how to read and punish opponents.

Thanks, that's actually a really good idea. My only problem is that the Smash Club is super unorganized. The tourney I went to was only a one time charity thing unfortunately. They've been trying to plan a location for weekly meetups with no success for months now. There are randomly matches that people schedule on Facebook but they're always during a bad time for me. Fingers crossed this issue gets resolved after holiday break so I can get more involved!

 

[Player -0]

Casey Chase

Don't think about where they are, think about where they will be.

Probably been stated and restated several times but the above. It's a bit more complex than that though.

Something that's not really tangible/"see able" is pressure. This "pressure" is applied via you "conditioning" your opponents to respect your options. For example if you're playing Robin (let's just say we're on FD for simplicity) and you always arcfire right when the opponent is close enough to do it. Let's get even more specific and say you always jump back then arcfire. If they see you jump back at that range they're going to do whatever option. For simplicity sake let's say they run up shield the arcfire. From this you LIKELY won't be able to directly punish their shield.

What you CAN do is pressure them for shielding your arcfire.
- You can do things like charge your tome to get them to drop their shield/jump OoS and attempt to stop your charging. You can then thunder/elthunder them for it or bait an attack.
- You can walk/run/hop towards their shield. Get them to roll/jump/etc. If you think they'll roll then empty land/arc fire/whatever goes in the situation. Keep in mind their position on the stage. If they're by ledge they won't roll back, they might do something different than if they were center stage.


Back to general stuff:
You want to be able to get into a position where you can "pressure" them and then punish any mistake (they don't have to do anything for you to punish them. You can punish inactiveness) for as little risk as possible/you get a big reward. This can take the form of little punishments BUT you push them back into the position where you can "pressure" them again.
- The example here is the ledge. Keep knocking someone away from stage so they have to get back.

Quick wrap up of my wrap up:
"Pressure" them by putting them into bad spots where you have an advantage in options (they're on a platform above you or they're above you in the air) or they're forced to take an option because they can't keep doing what they're doing (shielding/holding ledge)

Keep in mind this is only one of the "fundamental things" (loldon'taskmeformorebecauselistingfundamentalsishard)

Something I want you to do to learn "pressure":
You said there was a group of people of higher skill than you. Ask to play them. During the match don't focus on the match so to speak. Focus on what's happening during the match. When do you feel "pressured"? When do they "pressure" you? How do they "pressure" you? What could you do to not be "pressured"? Learn how to make decisions when "pressured" (this doesn't specifically mean for the aforementioned stuff. You can feel "pressured" when playing something that's really good or you're high percent).

 

[Cherpumple]

You said there was a group of people of higher skill than you. Ask to play them. During the match don't focus on the match so to speak. Focus on what's happening during the match. When do you feel "pressured"? When do they "pressure" you? How do they "pressure" you? What could you do to not be "pressured"? Learn how to make decisions when "pressured" (this doesn't specifically mean for the aforementioned stuff. You can feel "pressured" when playing something that's really good or you're high percent).

It seems like the consensus is to take on higher level opponents, so I'll definitely try to get myself out there more. Thanks for all the pressuring tips; I'll put in a good effort to start observing my matches more.

 

[Player -0]

I'd mainly advise playing a few matches with higher skilled people then trying to implement what you've learned into matches with less skilled people (relative to higher skill people)/people around your skill level. Playing people of lesser skill can still be useful in learning how to keep positioning. It depends on how fast they [higher level players] adapt. If they adapt to your adaptations really fast it won't feel like you've progressed at all due to you not being as well versed in the situations.

idk. Do whatever that makes you feel you're progressing the most.

 

[9029]

So recently I've been noticing I've gained a problem with using Arcfire too much, mostly on accident. Sometimes I attempt to wavebounce/B-reverse Thunder charge or B-reverse Arcfire but in the end it becomes just a normal Arcfire instead. Any ideas on improving inputs without changing from default controls since I prefer it? Or is it a case of practice more with it?
I'll link to a stream video from a couple weeks back for some reference where I made many mistakes for it. Also I'd like to get some critique if about what I can improve on in general.
http://www.twitch.tv/2ggaming/v/30364447 (I'm on around 1:02:00)

 

[Player -0]

Just imagine you're doing an arcfire to the left (like hit the Side + B/Special/whatev) but then you're like OH FACK I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THAT and slam your stick in the other direction.

For tome you have to hit the button and then push control stick behind Robin's back. ( -> -> / depending on direction)

 

[alexthepony]

what are some of robin shield pressure options or good stuff to do when people shield a lot

 

[LevinViolin]

what are some of robin shield pressure options or good stuff to do when people shield a lot

Arcthunder is one of Robin's best moves just in general. It's they key to pressuring a shielding opponent and will usually result in a free follow up if you're close enough. Arcthunder > Grab is very good because if the opponent shields Arcthunder the grab is guaranteed. Keep in mind that Robin has a slow run speed, so this only works when Arcthunder connects at mid-range, otherwise it will end before you reach them. In close proximity, Arcthunder > Nosferatu also works wonders. You have to be pretty close to them compared to when you go for a grab, but it's still something to keep in mind. In a range in the middle of where grab is guaranteed and where Nosferatu is guaranteed you can follow up with levin sword aerials to do more damage or kill.

Nosferatu in general is a pretty good option against shielded opponents, but you have to be clever when using it because it comes out slowly. Jumping to act like you're going to use an aerial attack and then using Nosferatu if the opponent shields is one of the most reliable ways to land it.

Otherwise levin sword forward air is pretty safe on shield if you hit at the end of its range and also hit the autocancel window.

Arcfire is actually less than ideal for pressuring shields. It can be done, but often the opponent can roll in either direction if arcfire hits their shield. You're much better off using Arcthunder for pressuring shields.

 

[Casey Chase]

To add to what LevinViolin said, you can use Nosferatu as a good mixup when you're below the opponent. If you've been pressuring them with Uairs and the like, then they'll have been conditioned to shield when you're below them, which is an ideal time for Nosferatu.

 

[Daxter]

Is this the best place to post a 3DS replay? I actually won (!!) a match, and I never expected to. I found a Sheik who steamrolled me in the first game, but in the second I took it back better than I expected.

Now usually people post replays of losses to evaluate them for mistakes, but I keep doing that elsewhere and not understanding what I'm doing wrong. Instead I was wondering if people could tell me what I do CORRECTLY in this match please? Remembering to do something right is much easier for me than remembering to correct a mistake, if that makes sense. Gives a morale boost too-!

Apologies for the potato quality, I had to borrow someone else's phone to get this. For the record, I never use the Wii U version because the bullies on FG upset me a lot. I know, I know, sounds fickle, but I'm affected by it more than a majority for reasons I'd rather only explain if I absolutely must.

 

[Nah]

Is this the best place to post a 3DS replay? I actually won (!!) a match, and I never expected to. I found a Sheik who steamrolled me in the first game, but in the second I took it back better than I expected.

Now usually people post replays of losses to evaluate them for mistakes, but I keep doing that elsewhere and not understanding what I'm doing wrong. Instead I was wondering if people could tell me what I do CORRECTLY in this match please? Remembering to do something right is much easier for me than remembering to correct a mistake, if that makes sense. Gives a morale boost too-!

We actually have a video posting thread but eh whatever

A couple of things I can see that you did basically correctly was using fade-back aerials (which makes them safer), and the edgeguarding, y'know, the offstage Elwinds and dropping Arcfires at the ledge and throwing out a Thunder spell to get a reaction out of them while they're recovering and stuff. That offstage Arcthunder on their Bouncing Fish whiff was pretty nice too imo.

One little suggestion though if I may: on fastfallers, particularly lightweight ones like , Wind Jab is your friend. Racks up more damage and kills them easier than Fire Jab does and I think it's important to abuse that.

 

[alexthepony]

Is this the best place to post a 3DS replay? I actually won (!!) a match, and I never expected to. I found a Sheik who steamrolled me in the first game, but in the second I took it back better than I expected.

Now usually people post replays of losses to evaluate them for mistakes, but I keep doing that elsewhere and not understanding what I'm doing wrong. Instead I was wondering if people could tell me what I do CORRECTLY in this match please? Remembering to do something right is much easier for me than remembering to correct a mistake, if that makes sense. Gives a morale boost too-!

Apologies for the potato quality, I had to borrow someone else's phone to get this. For the record, I never use the Wii U version because the bullies on FG upset me a lot. I know, I know, sounds fickle, but I'm affected by it more than a majority for reasons I'd rather only explain if I absolutely must.

were you the robin or the sheik? well from the robin point of the view the sheik almost always shielded when you had stage control, or the robin was attacking him with an aerial. The robin did very little to punish his shield which was overall the biggest issue. Also when a sheik charges his needle don't be fooled by it. don't approach. this sheik also did a lot of unexpected options in the nuetrol, such as a random fsmash, set ups that don't work. A good thing to know is that you can live up to 170 percent if you know all of sheik's kill set ups. I also recommend that you go and study sheik as a character and the match up and study matches of robin vs sheik. hope I helped

 

[Daxter]

We actually have a video posting thread but eh whatever

A couple of things I can see that you did basically correctly was using fade-back aerials (which makes them safer), and the edgeguarding, y'know, the offstage Elwinds and dropping Arcfires at the ledge and throwing out a Thunder spell to get a reaction out of them while they're recovering and stuff. That offstage Arcthunder on their Bouncing Fish whiff was pretty nice too imo.

One little suggestion though if I may: on fastfallers, particularly lightweight ones like , Wind Jab is your friend. Racks up more damage and kills them easier than Fire Jab does and I think it's important to abuse that.

Thank you, especially for keeping it simple. I only have a 10% FG win rate, so when people go through a list to end all lists of things I should do, I never really learn much from it - I'm not very smart, and learn more by having clarified what I did right by myself XD

 

[Tomoya Okazaki]

Does anyone know/have all of Robin's Dthrow follow up options at all percents, I can't seem to find it anywhere?

 

[ARGHETH]

It varies by fall speed, hurtbox size, and DI, obviously, but here's a tentative list.
Dthrow --> Jab: 0~30% (10-30 on fast fallers)
Dthrow --> Utilt: 20~50(ish)%
Dthrow --> Uair: 90-(100/110/I don't know anymore)
Dthrow --> Fair I think works at certain %s with the wrong DI.
Dthrow --> Arcthunder works at lower %s (I think).

 

[FieryRebirth]

Edit: Merge me. I'm ignorant of stickies.

I've said this before but I do possess a number of bad habits when playing competitively: always underestimating my opponents when they have a bad start at first and then there is rarely using Robin's Down B.

I decide to play 1v1 again and my first opponent after a short hiatus - Mario...YAY!
Fortunately, this Mario was easy to read and like I, whiffs jabs a lot. However, the time I decide to use Nosferatu, this happens(at 1:33).

I'd like an explanation on the hitbox if possible since this really hurt any of my reliance on this move further.

 

[Conn1496]

It looks like some really jank hitbox shuffling. Mario looks like... -pixels too close to you to be grabbed due to his Jab animation - though I can't lie, that's something I've never seen before.

 

[FieryRebirth]

That is what I had thought too; the suction effect actually missing bewildered me. I won't say this was the first time that happened either as this was the only replay I decided to save with it. I hope it's not a bug.

 

[Raziek]

Nah, it's a very very simple answer. You grabbed him right before the attempt and triggered the grab cooldown. Nos is considered a grab, so it doesn't trigger until the cooldown passes.

Feel free to prove it to yourself in training mode by attempting D-throw -> Nos on an idle CPU.

Edit: Merged thread w/ Q&A thread.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Nah, it's a very very simple answer. You grabbed him right before the attempt and triggered the grab cooldown. Nos is considered a grab, so it doesn't trigger until the cooldown passes.

Feel free to prove it to yourself in training mode by attempting D-throw -> Nos on an idle CPU.

Edit: Merged thread w/ Q&A thread.

The grab cooldown - of course, of course. Thanks.

You know what? Sakurai, replace Robin's grab with Nosferatu. Screw D-throw, I'm sick of so many fighters getting out of it at 0%

 

[Kumabear]

I was trying stuff out in Training mode a few days ago and while trying to improve my follow-ups of Arcthunder I noticed something pretty weird. When I used Dair after Arcthunder the target didn't get spiked on to the ground but got launched in a really deathly angle.

(Please forgive the quality.)

The combo works up to 83% when used on Mario, after that Mario will get normally spiked. At ~80% it can kill even from the middle of the stage. Of course, this was done in Training mode with a CPU so my data isn't necessarily that insightful, but the angle is still pretty deathly. I'm probably going to do some further testing with my friend so I'll see how much DI will help.

Anyway, hopefully I'm on to something new and not merely bringing up something already discovered. Either way I'd like to hear your thoughts on this since I think this may have great potential against characters with bad horizontal recovery.

 

[Raziek]

That's known, but I forget what topic had all the experimentation with it.

 

[Kumabear]

That's known, but I forget what topic had all the experimentation with it.

Thanks for the info, I guess I'll try to find that topic then. Still I'm kinda puzzled that I haven't seen anyone pull this one off in a stream or something before since it seems kinda straightforward. By the by, would you recommend to aim for this set up or rather just use Checkmate?

 

[Conn1496]

Oh damn, I was just looking into that Arcthunder > Spike stuff myself - looks like someone beat me to the punch.

I asked in the social thread if there was a topic for this, figured I'd get a quick response. Should've really asked about here first. lol

Either way, yeah, it's pretty damn good against some characters. It's an incredibly strong semi-spike when you use D-air. Doesn't work at point blank though, so at that range just go for Nosferatu instead.

 

[ARGHETH]

Thanks for the info, I guess I'll try to find that topic then. Still I'm kinda puzzled that I haven't seen anyone pull this one off in a stream or something before since it seems kinda straightforward. By the by, would you recommend to aim for this set up or rather just use Checkmate?

Well, if it works until ~80 on Mario, then go for this, since Checkmate generally kills at ~90-100 on Mario.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Actually, I'd like a picture of the name of Nosferatu 3 if you don't mind, since that's the one I'm most interested in currently.

Nosferatu 3 in English is called "Goetia" Nosferatu 2 is "Distant Nosferatu"

 

[Conn1496]

Has anyone done much on the uses of auto-discarding tomes/Levin at all? I noticed that if you turn/crouch as you're discarding something, it actually discards it faster.

At the very least, I found that if you quick discard from Arcthunder at close range, the tome will actually hit them whereas it usually wouldn't. The best part about this is that it still allows you to chain into Nosferatu or basically most other moves. It's also painfully easy since you can do this with crouching, and Nosferatu is Down-B.

Just curious about this really. Not a huge deal, but if it has any big applications, it'd be cool to know.

[Edit]: Also just noticed that shielding can shorten it too. Basically anything that interrupts the traditional discard animation will speed up the discard noticably.

 

[Tarastel]

Has anyone done much on the uses of auto-discarding tomes/Levin at all? I noticed that if you turn/crouch as you're discarding something, it actually discards it faster.

At the very least, I found that if you quick discard from Arcthunder at close range, the tome will actually hit them whereas it usually wouldn't. The best part about this is that it still allows you to chain into Nosferatu or basically most other moves. It's also painfully easy since you can do this with crouching, and Nosferatu is Down-B.

Just curious about this really. Not a huge deal, but if it has any big applications, it'd be cool to know.

[Edit]: Also just noticed that shielding can shorten it too. Basically anything that interrupts the traditional discard animation will speed up the discard noticably.

Mr. II likes experimenting with Robin and finds out a bunch of either viable and completely nonsensical things.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Mr. II likes experimenting with Robin and finds out a bunch of either viable and completely nonsensical things.

Oh wow, we can catch the book in place? That's pretty amazing! I knew about Dtilting to make the book toss go completely vertical for easy short hop catching, but I had no idea you could simply Dtilt into catch (I'm assuming he's jabbing there). That's super useful since you don't have to give up any stage control to do it.

 

[Tarastel]

Oh wow, we can catch the book in place? That's pretty amazing! I knew about Dtilting to make the book toss go completely vertical for easy short hop catching, but I had no idea you could simply Dtilt into catch (I'm assuming he's jabbing there). That's super useful since you don't have to give up any stage control to do it.

Yeah, he's dtilting into a jab for the regular one. Took me a while to get the timing consistently(over 40 tries...) since the timing is very precise, but still figuring out the dash attack one.

 

[FightingPorygonTeam]

Is there any reason to use the bronze sword at all? I've been playing Robin lately to try him out, but it seems like the Levin's sword is almost always the better option, especially with such a short respawn time. I was hoping the two different swords had more use for strategic switching between them.

 

[Tarastel]

Is there any reason to use the bronze sword at all? I've been playing Robin lately to try him out, but it seems like the Levin's sword is almost always the better option, especially with such a short respawn time. I was hoping the two different swords had more use for strategic switching between them.

Robin's tilts are "get off me" attacks, in case they get too close. Also his nair got a range increase so you can use that for edge guarding or spacing. May seem inferior to the buffed Levin Sword fair, but it has it's uses still.

 

[ARGHETH]

Is there any reason to use the bronze sword at all? I've been playing Robin lately to try him out, but it seems like the Levin's sword is almost always the better option, especially with such a short respawn time. I was hoping the two different swords had more use for strategic switching between them.

Bronze Aerials and Smashes are generally inferior to their Levin counterparts, though Bronze Dsmash sends the opponent at a 28 degree angle (almost the same as Nair's), which is useful for getting people offstage.

 

[Irisz]

Is there any reason to use the bronze sword at all? I've been playing Robin lately to try him out, but it seems like the Levin's sword is almost always the better option, especially with such a short respawn time. I was hoping the two different swords had more use for strategic switching between them.

My reply:

Spoiler

I personally use SH Nair a lot to just bring out the Bronze Sword so I don't force a Levin Sword aerial next time I wack my C stick

I otherwise use nair in general a lot something akin to using Marth's nair in Brawl. It's not bad for edgeguarding people as long as you're brave enough off stage

Sometimes if I'm facing an opponent near the ledge I'll dtilt a few times and anticipate a roll as dtilt comes out relatively fast. They'll almost always roll back and I can just get a free grab

If I know they're going to roll back when I run (Lol Robin's run) towards them, I'll probably throw out a dash attack doing a decent amount of knockback. Just remember that you ought to dash attack a bit later otherwise you'll probably bring it out too early and end up hitting their buffered shield with the dinky part of his dash attack

Some thing I've been working recently is landing with Bronze Sword uair into Levin Uair then another LUair at low percent. I think it's situational but getting that extra Bronze Sword Uair is better than nothing lol

I wanted to ask for Diddy help. I normally try to recover from ledge/approach back to stage with Arcfire but Diddy can kinda sit back and watch me Arcfire into thin air. I don't really know how else I can get back onto stage with him sitting back a bit. I feel like if I just get up in any way he'll just fair me and reset the situation.

Any help? Lol

 

[AC NuBurs]

How do you guys keep it up? Everytime I see another top tier character, I just look at robin, and im like "this character cant compete". Smash 4 is getting faster and faster, does robin have a place in this game? I always feel like dropping this character lately, especially after some real sour tournaments. How do you guys keep playing this guy no quesiton?

 

[Tarastel]

How do you guys keep it up? Everytime I see another top tier character, I just look at robin, and im like "this character cant compete". Smash 4 is getting faster and faster, does robin have a place in this game? I always feel like dropping this character lately, especially after some real sour tournaments. How do you guys keep playing this guy no quesiton?

Robin still hasn't been used to his absolute potential, since you can do a lot of different things with his weapon discard system among other things. Also, in regards to the new top tiers, experience is always going to play a factor in those matches. Not to mention most of the recent updates have been buffing Robin over and over again. And last but not least, people just really like the character(myself included).

These are SOME of the reasons, can't say I speak for everyone with my reasons, but hopefully gave some insight.