Q&A The Barracks - Robin Q&A Thread [ASK GAMEPLAY QUESTIONS HERE]

[marekage]

ok yeah i rewatch the match and it was some sort of a whiff of Ike's side B. thanks for your answer

 

[Casey Chase]

Is there any item that knocks opponents away like tomes do? I'm trying to lab tome stuff but it's really annoying to have to reset every time after a failed (or successful) attempt.

If not, kms I have to keep resetting and spamming nos

EDIT: It doesn't look like it. Ugh

 

[Nah]

I suck at Ryu inputs so I kinda can't check, but does Elthunder pass through Shakunetsu or no?

Is there any item that knocks opponents away like tomes do? I'm trying to lab tome stuff but it's really annoying to have to reset every time after a failed (or successful) attempt.

If not, kms I have to keep resetting and spamming nos

EDIT: It doesn't look like it. Ugh

Capsules are the closest thing I can think of. Same damage and roughly the same knockback as tomes I'm pretty sure, but idk if they're close enough for whatever it is you're labbing, as idk if they behave exactly the same way or not.

 

[Krysco]

So something I've been doing for a little while with Roy is testing his dthrow and bthrow on every character to see what percents they get forced onto the lower platforms of Battlefield. I've completed the testing without di and am currently, slowly but surely testing every character with DI. I've also tested the effects of the 1.05 freshness bonus. I plan on doing this for every legal stage save for FD and possibly DH and Lylat. Also plan on testing the effects rage has on this.

Why am I mentioning this here? Well I didn't feel like doing any labbing tonight but I've been curious for a while if Robin could have similar set ups with dthrow. Did some quick tests on Mario and the results were interesting. Dthrow pops him onto the platform well before he enters tumble and di didn't seem to matter. Even when he does enter tumble, di doesn't seem to matter, at least not at the earliest percent it happens (I believe it was 63%). Without entering tumble, Robin is able to shield first so he has frame advantage. Not sure if he has enough to do something like dthrow -> pp utilt and I'd need a second person to test that. Since this is started by a grab, if they shield, you won't be able to get a Nosferatu but you could try pressuring their shield with an aerial or Arcthunder or something. Gotta watch out though since they can drop through platforms when in shield. Once they enter tumble, they're essentially in a frame trap. Their only option being tech, fail to tech and possibly air dodge. It's all character and percent dependent but this could open up some interesting combos for Robin.

Posting this here in the Q&A because I'm wondering if anyone would be interested in me making a thread in these boards dedicated to this? To give you an idea, here's what I've got so far for Roy: https://smashboards.com/threads/roy-bthrow-dthrow-platform-frame-traps.440987/

 

[Casey Chase]

I'm curious about that. Sounds interesting. I'd like to see it in action though.

 

[Krysco]

I've only done the testing I mentioned on Mario but I could record it and post the video to give an idea. I doubt it'll lead to any super extensive combos or anything but it's nearly guaranteed damage and a good means of starting an edgeguard situation since all you have to do is dthrow under or near a platform and read a tech. You've got 9 aerials, 4 versions of neutral special, side special, utilt and usmash as means of answering the di. One thing in particular that I found amusing is that if you usmash on your last levin sword use, you can cover the platform pretty well with the usmash covering one side and the levin drop covering the other, granted the opponent should have enough time to shield the levin drop.

Mario didn't enter tumble until 63% which is too high for levin drop to force a platform drop but if there's a character that can enter tumble at a low enough percent, you might be able to do dthrow -> any move that uses levin to get a levin drop -> forced platform fall -> your punish of choice.

 

[Zeiah92]

Sorry is this question has already been asked but I've been wondering about an Odd thing that has happened before regarding elwind. There have been instance where I elwind to recover and sometimes rather than grab the ledge I will instantly land on stage with no lag whatsoever. I do it many times at random and it catches me off guard and I sometimes get punished for it since I dont expect it. Is there a reason this happens and how can I do it so that I can do it intentionally (if there is a way) so I can use it strategically rather than accidentally?

 

[ARGHETH]

Sorry is this question has already been asked but I've been wondering about an Odd thing that has happened before regarding elwind. There have been instance where I elwind to recover and sometimes rather than grab the ledge I will instantly land on stage with no lag whatsoever. I do it many times at random and it catches me off guard and I sometimes get punished for it since I dont expect it. Is there a reason this happens and how can I do it so that I can do it intentionally (if there is a way) so I can use it strategically rather than accidentally?

When you use Elwind too close to the ground, it'll count it as being used but won't send you up. Usually it's the first blade, but I guess it works for the second one, too.

 

[Casey Chase]

How can I do it so that I can do it intentionally (if there is a way) so I can use it strategically rather than accidentally?

You can cancel Elwind onstage as well. In fact, there's a jab lock setup for a cancelled Elwind. It's pretty tricky to pull off since timing is so tight but it looks pretty neat. Doesn't seem practical because you need tomes + a footstool (and our jumpsquat sucks so rip FOOS).

i made an example gif for the ground footstool>z-drop>air footstool>Elcancel lock>bronze uair>levin uair, though I was accidentally slow on the levin uair (still shows as a combo but could be airdodged; input properly it's guaranteed)


elcanceling is cool

 

[Casey Chase]

Three questions:

What's Robin's best OOS option?
If you were to say one aspect of Robin's game that is underdeveloped, what would it be?
How do I catch and then instantly throw an item in the air?

 

[Snailtopus]

Does holding on to Robin's book prevent a new one from spawning?

 

[Nah]

Does holding on to Robin's book prevent a new one from spawning?

Nope. A new one will respawn regardless of if you're holding onto a discarded version of it or not.

Casey Chase Robin's OoS options are garbage really. The "best" is shieldgrab. Obviously grab reward is great but the grab itself is laggy and kinda small.

 

[Nah]

forgive the double post but

I noticed the other day that when you dash with Robin, you can wait to input the other direction to pivot all the way up until she 100% goes back to her standing animation. And when you do, she both does the pivot and scoots back a fair bit. Is just a random thought, but does anyone think there's any sort of practical use for this? No other character as far as I'm aware has their dash+pivot behave like this; Marcina and Ike can kinda do it but the input window is smaller and they don't move as much.

 

[Krysco]

Huh, interesting. You can do pivot grab, arcfire and fsmash afterwards. Can't seem to get pivot ftilt though. Jumping is also possible. Testing while typing and you can actually mix up pivot grab a bit it seems. You can either slide back like you mentioned or you can do a pivot grab while basically staying in the same spot. I'm guessing Robin's pivot grab is like most others in that it has more range than standing or dash grab? Takes the longest to come out though and has an faf of 47, only 3 frames better than dash drag and 7 frames worse than standing grab. With jump, you can dash, delay the turnaround then instantly jump after the turn around and you carry the momentum in the air.

Edit: Managed to get pivot ftilt to work too.

 

[Cherpumple]

Anyone know what the easiest or most reliable way to do bronze aerials is? Whenever I'd like to use a bronze aerial, I end up pulling Levin Sword out instead. I know there's some great combos that come out of using bronze sword, so any advice? Thanks in advance!

 

[Nah]

Anyone know what the easiest or most reliable way to do bronze aerials is? Whenever I'd like to use a bronze aerial, I end up pulling Levin Sword out instead. I know there's some great combos that come out of using bronze sword, so any advice? Thanks in advance!

If you have the Levin sword equipped already, you can switch back to the bronze sword to do bronze aerials by doing jab/a tilt/Nair first, since those are bronze-only. Also, I have to double check this, but using Smash stick forces Levin aerials as well as inputting them like a smash attack.

I am confused as to why you'd want to use bronze aerials (besides Nair) though

 

[Cherpumple]

If you have the Levin sword equipped already, you can switch back to the bronze sword to do bronze aerials by doing jab/a tilt/Nair first, since those are bronze-only. Also, I have to double check this, but using Smash stick forces Levin aerials as well as inputting them like a smash attack.

I am confused as to why you'd want to use bronze aerials (besides Nair) though

I know how to bring Levin Sword out for aerials (C stick or smash attack) as well as how having the Levin out automatically makes aerials Levin, I was just curious if there was an easier way to do bronze aerials. I try to input the aerial as a tilt but sometimes the Levin comes out anyway. I tend to use the C stick for aerials, and I'm fairly certain setting the C stick to tilts won't change the fact that aerial comes out Levin (I should probably double check that though).

I don't see why I wouldn't want to use bronze sword. I'd just like to try something new, I feel like everyone writes off bronze aerials for Levin because of the damage output. However, I can see some potential in them that I'd like to explore. It's mainly for labbing purposes but would be fun to try out in friendlies.

 

[Nah]

I know how to bring Levin Sword out for aerials (C stick or smash attack) as well as how having the Levin out automatically makes aerials Levin, I was just curious if there was an easier way to do bronze aerials. I try to input the aerial as a tilt but sometimes the Levin comes out anyway. I tend to use the C stick for aerials, and I'm fairly certain setting the C stick to tilts won't change the fact that aerial comes out Levin (I should probably double check that though).

I don't see why I wouldn't want to use bronze sword. I'd just like to try something new, I feel like everyone writes off bronze aerials for Levin because of the damage output. However, I can see some potential in them that I'd like to explore. It's mainly for labbing purposes but would be fun to try out in friendlies.

Ah, I seem to have misinterpreted what you were getting at. Sorry.

I unfortunately don't know how to make it easier to do bronze aerials and not do a Levin one instead. It may just be something you have to practice doing I guess, maybe the game's finicky about it.

 

[West End]

I am somewhat new to robin, however, The easiest ways to execute the bronze aerials are thus. After a grab, or otherwise your opponent is in the air, do either a F-tilt or Jab. This will result in the bronze sword being "unequipped". You must [pref0orm the desired move somewhat quickly. This will NOT work if you use the C stick when it is set to special. The game is somewhat finicky about the timing, so practicing often is key. If you guys find an easier way to execute, please feel free to correct me!

 

[Goombo]

I tend to use the C stick for aerials, and I'm fairly certain setting the C stick to tilts won't change the fact that aerial comes out Levin (I should probably double check that though).

Strictly speaking you can perform bronze aerials with tilt stick if you flick the stick really fast during jumpsquat (this is why unintentional bronze Upairs sometimes happen while performing Checkmate with tilt stick). Outside of jumpsquat it doesn't work at all for some reason so it isn't that useful in a real battle.

 

[Cherpumple]

If you guys find an easier way to execute, please feel free to correct me!

I've actually been labbing bronze aerials a bit and I've found that holding the joystick in the direction of the aerial (forward for fair, down for dair, etc) for about a second before you input the aerial using the A button, it comes out as a bronze aerial extremely consistently (if the bronze sword is equipped, of course). I'm actually finding bronze aerials to be decently rewarding as I'm lengthening combos quite a bit with bronze fairs and uairs. However, I've only just scratched the surface with adding them to my gameplay.

 

[Olyiis]

Hey guys,

so I recently decided to pick up Robin but I'm having some trouble with short hop c-stick aerials. I tried setting R to jump so I can keep my thumb on the c-stick but short hops have become really difficult to execute (though I am a smash rookie so maybe that's the problem). How do you guys do it? Do I need different keybinds? A different controller? (currently using cg) Or do I just have to get used to it?

Any replies are highly appreciated!

P.S. Get Knuckles in the game.

 

[Cherpumple]

Hey guys,

so I recently decided to pick up Robin but I'm having some trouble with short hop c-stick aerials. I tried setting R to jump so I can keep my thumb on the c-stick but short hops have become really difficult to execute (though I am a smash rookie so maybe that's the problem). How do you guys do it? Do I need different keybinds? A different controller? (currently using cg) Or do I just have to get used to it?

Any replies are highly appreciated!

P.S. Get Knuckles in the game.

So I've also been in your shoes. I used to use the GC controller with R set to jump and just couldn't consistently short hop. In the end I switched to the Wii U Pro Controller with the analog R button, it made short hopping much easier. I'd recommend the pro controller but if you'd rather keep the GC then try setting the Z button to jump instead, it's easier to short hop with.

 

[Dream Cancel]

Hey guys,

so I recently decided to pick up Robin but I'm having some trouble with short hop c-stick aerials. I tried setting R to jump so I can keep my thumb on the c-stick but short hops have become really difficult to execute (though I am a smash rookie so maybe that's the problem). How do you guys do it? Do I need different keybinds? A different controller? (currently using cg) Or do I just have to get used to it?

Any replies are highly appreciated!

P.S. Get Knuckles in the game.

The R and L buttons on the GC controller are pressure-sensitive, so you need to lightly press them to short hop. Moderately or heavily pressing them will result in a full hop, no matter how quick you are. For this reason it's much easier to have Z set to jump, because it's an analog button, so only your timing matters, not how hard you press it. You could move grab to X or Y and have Z to jump, that works too.

Personally, I have grown accustomed to L to jump, and have gained precision with my jump inputs, so it's not a problem for me. I also play Melee and Project M, so I need something close to default controls so I can switch between games. My only differences from default are: L jump, Tap Jump off, and C-stick attack.

If you don't want to get used to triggers, I recommend switching to the Pro Controller. All of the buttons are analog ones, and the shoulder buttons allow for more optimal controller setups.

 

[Krysco]

Alternatively, you could do what I did. I got one of those classic controllers that plug into a Wiimote and have the layout of the gc controller. More familiar button layout, has the notches by the control stick and has 4 shoulder buttons. Pretty sure the Zl and Zr (which are where the gc L and R are) are still analog though. Could always map L (which is opposite the R button which is where the Z button on a gc is...it's confusing to explain) to jump if changing Z from grab is too difficult. I use bidou for a few characters so I'm used to having my shoulder buttons scrambled about.

 

[Olyiis]

Aah I see, that might be why I was having problems. I'm gonna try and use Z for now then. Thanks for the replies, guys!

 

[Yonder]

Sup Robins, since I've been using Robin much more extensively lately, I just had a few questions:

1. What are the best ways to utilize discarded times/sword? I feel like when I catch them, I don't really know the bed gameplay with them besides z drop or smash toss. Suggestions?

2. Any use for smash attacks? Unlike basically every other character I play, I never find myself using Robin's smash attacks and i dont really know why. I find myself opting for a LS aerial instead. Are there times when LS smash attacks should be implemented more? I never find the space in my gameplay.

Thanks in advance!

 

[theMichael]

Sup Robins, since I've been using Robin much more extensively lately, I just had a few questions:

1. What are the best ways to utilize discarded times/sword? I feel like when I catch them, I don't really know the bed gameplay with them besides z drop or smash toss. Suggestions?

2. Any use for smash attacks? Unlike basically every other character I play, I never find myself using Robin's smash attacks and i dont really know why. I find myself opting for a LS aerial instead. Are there times when LS smash attacks should be implemented more? I never find the space in my gameplay.

Thanks in advance!

I use her smash attacks as checkmate mix-ups. ie: If someone is at 70-80 and I know I don't have a CM confirm, I will do the down throw to bait an air dodge and immediately charge an f or d smash so they fall right into it.

 

[Nah]

Sup Robins, since I've been using Robin much more extensively lately, I just had a few questions:

1. What are the best ways to utilize discarded times/sword? I feel like when I catch them, I don't really know the bed gameplay with them besides z drop or smash toss. Suggestions?

2. Any use for smash attacks? Unlike basically every other character I play, I never find myself using Robin's smash attacks and i dont really know why. I find myself opting for a LS aerial instead. Are there times when LS smash attacks should be implemented more? I never find the space in my gameplay.

Thanks in advance!

Smash attacks are generally not the world's most commonly used moves given that they usually have below average frame data. But besides hard reads, they have use as Arcthunder follow-ups/kill confirms. You can use them as Checkmate/Dthrow mix-ups, but that's not the world's most reliable things since it depends on a) your opponent not knowing the Checkmate percents for their character (which is admittedly probably not uncommon) and b) they have a tendency to airdodge at lot after being throw or hit. I go for it sometimes on FG since it's not uncommon for people to fall for it, but against tournament players I'm not so sure.

As for discarded tomes/Levin Sword, I don't think there's a whole lot to do with them. Not that I'm some expert on Robin item usage (or an expert on literally anything really), but I doubt that they have a crapload of use; I don't get the feelings they were designed to have a whole lot of use in the same manner as say Pac-Man Fruit or ROB Gyro or Diddy Banana. But at the very least I'm pretty sure that Arcthunder-->footstool-->Z-drop book/sword-->follow-up is a thing.

 

[Krysco]

Got a few questions:

1. If you're out of fire tomes and land a jab on a non-fastfaller, what's the best thing to do? Go for wind jab or some sort of mix up after jab 1 or 2 with possibly dtilt or grab or something else?

2. Does Robin have any moves that reach below the ledge while on stage? I'm not sure if Levin dsmash does, I don't think dtilt does and I wanna say the last hit of Arcfire does.

3. What are Robin's best options for ledgeguarding? i.e the opponent is hanging on the ledge and you're on stage trying to keep them on the ledge or offstage. A character like Sheik has it really easy since she can just sh nair to cover most options and the onesshe can't, she can punish on easily after. The best I can think of for Robin is either Levin fair or bair since they both last 8 frames or just staying grounded and trying to read their get up option. I suppose Thoron would work but it's not often that a Robin will have Thunder charged up that far.

4. Are there any moves other than dtilt that stall a tome/sword drop and displace the left hand? I know other tome uses like Arcfire or Nosferatu can stall the item drop but I'm not sure about the hand displacement. Asking since using a move that uses a tome/sword use, then doing a dtilt right after could make it obvious that you've just run out of tome or sword use and are trying to do Tome/Sword Drop Manipulation or whatever it's called.

 

[SaikaGaleforce]

Got a few questions:

1. If you're out of fire tomes and land a jab on a non-fastfaller, what's the best thing to do? Go for wind jab or some sort of mix up after jab 1 or 2 with possibly dtilt or grab or something else?

2. Does Robin have any moves that reach below the ledge while on stage? I'm not sure if Levin dsmash does, I don't think dtilt does and I wanna say the last hit of Arcfire does.

3. What are Robin's best options for ledgeguarding? i.e the opponent is hanging on the ledge and you're on stage trying to keep them on the ledge or offstage. A character like Sheik has it really easy since she can just sh nair to cover most options and the onesshe can't, she can punish on easily after. The best I can think of for Robin is either Levin fair or bair since they both last 8 frames or just staying grounded and trying to read their get up option. I suppose Thoron would work but it's not often that a Robin will have Thunder charged up that far.

4. Are there any moves other than dtilt that stall a tome/sword drop and displace the left hand? I know other tome uses like Arcfire or Nosferatu can stall the item drop but I'm not sure about the hand displacement. Asking since using a move that uses a tome/sword use, then doing a dtilt right after could make it obvious that you've just run out of tome or sword use and are trying to do Tome/Sword Drop Manipulation or whatever it's called.

1. i personally would go for the wind jab, or maybe just drop it and go for something else. it depends on the percentage really.
2. not that i am aware of
3. arcfire and downsmash would both be good
4. not that i am aware of

 

[Nah]

So lately I've been noticing that on occasion when someone gets hit with Thoron they'll slam into the ground and slide along it instead of being launched into the air like normal. Even happened to me today when I was playing the ditto on FG, got hit by the other guy's Thoron and I didn't fly into the air, just slammed into the ground and slid across the stage.

I have no idea why it happens though. Does anyone else know?

 

[DMan64]

So lately I've been noticing that on occasion when someone gets hit with Thoron they'll slam into the ground and slide along it instead of being launched into the air like normal. Even happened to me today when I was playing the ditto on FG, got hit by the other guy's Thoron and I didn't fly into the air, just slammed into the ground and slid across the stage.

I have no idea why it happens though. Does anyone else know?

If I had to guess, maybe you had DI/SDI downward without realizing it and it cause you to hit the ground before being launched away.

 

[Cherpumple]

Nah DMan64 It's actually called the electric momentum glitch, it's a bug in the game that happens with every attack that has electric properties. Here's a link: https://twitter.com/kuroganehammer/status/863570537955512320

 

[Krysco]

Every electric attack...so this thing can happen to Robin's smash attacks, all Levin aerials and all stages of Thunder then? That's quite a few moves @.@ Guess it would apply a lot to Olimar too with his yellow Pikmin smashes, aerials and possibly throws and a few of Pika's attacks too.