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I've been with the character far too long to drop her now. It doesn't really feel that hopeless to me like to kinda does with
.
I find that I can go quite deep with Robin at my locals where the best players main Mario, Megaman and Sheik just by knowing the matchups and not relying on unsafe projectiles like Arcfire too much while on the ground. I've also found that characters like Sheik and Mario approach from the air, so a short hop Arcfire catches them a lot and allows me more control over my positioning than a grounded version of the move. I also secondary Fox, however, for matchups like Megaman where my projectiles are beat out constantly and just to have a faster character in general to fall back on.
You can cancel the thunder charge by shielding, rolling (you can just input a direction for this one), or spotdodging. In the air the only way to cancel the thunder charge is to airdodge.
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You can find the answer to all these questions by playing, but i'll see if I can help quicken the process
Yeah, the flashing was part of how I 'felt' for breaks rather than counting. I have rough memory of the amount of tome uses. Nosferatu is always 4, Arcfire is always 6, Elwind is somewhere in the 20s (I've never broken it without intentionally holding rapid jab) and Thunder and Speed Thunder are also somewhere in the 20s? While + is like half of that or so. Thunder takes 1 use, El takes...4? Arc is 8? and Thoron is 10? I know the info is on Smash wiki and probably in these very boards but this is just to show my general lack of knowledge towards even the amount of uses. Won't have smash wiki in front of me during a match =PYou can find the answer to all these questions by playing, but i'll see if I can help quicken the process
In my personal experience, micromanagement isn't THAT big of a deal, you simply should keep in an eye on Robin's hands; when a weapon starts to flash, that means you have used at least 75% of that weapons durability, and further use will break it. The only tome you have to be REALLY careful for is Elwind; if that tome breaks, you have no recovery until it respawns (fortunately, Elwind has the fastest respawn time, I believe at 8 seconds).
Once you begin the animation when casting any spell or even an attack with the levin sword, that takes a use, even when you've been hit out of the animation. Thus, to answer your question, yes, the tome will still break if you get hit out of the animation.
Also, just FYI, while we don't have the best frame data, all our aerials (except dair, our worst aerial) are still very quick and have VERY good disjoints, especially using the levin sword. Try to abuse these disjoints
Regarding Nosferatu, I personally wouldn't waste it for a free tome like that because:
-the tome takes 40 seconds to return, by far the longest waiting time
-Nosferatu is too valuable a move to waste just for one item, as that spell can literally tip a game in your favor when applied correctly
-Broken weapons will come naturally as you attack or defend with your weapons on hand far quicker than having to go out of your way to make the time to waste Nosferatu for one
Remember, don't feel put off by low speed; Robin makes up for it with superior offense and defense using his/her weapons, which conveniently generates broken tomes/swords.
Good luck if you decide to main the tactician!
Allow me to fill you in on the durability of the weapons:
Helps me out every now and then. However, it is very dificult to predict, and is more luck-of-the-draw, at least in my experience.
Okay, I knew I was a bit off with Thunder and was way off with Elwind although for recovery purposes, it's more like 18 which is close to the 20 I guessed. Was aware about the jabs taking up uses. Usually end up using the fire jab since I'm always afraid of having a worse recovery than Sopo even with the fast recharge time. Gotta at least memorize those numbers so I have a better understanding of how much I can use each spell.
Dthrow Followups
Well glad you decided to pick up Robin! They have a bit of a learning curve, but they're very fun when you get into them.
This is a week late, if you already found answers to your questions or you moved on from Robin already then I apologize.
Thanks for the help, I decided to pick up robin because the character feels the most comfortable to me.Well glad you decided to pick up Robin! They have a bit of a learning curve, but they're very fun when you get into them.
The first step is familiarizing yourself with how many uses you have with every one of your item reliant moves.
You should always try to keep track of how many uses you have left on your items, but you can tell if an item has a low amount of uses left if it's flashing. You shouldn't rely too much on looking for flashing items, but it can be very useful in notifying you when Robin is about to toss them.
- Neutral Special has 20 uses, Thunder costs 1 use, Elthunder costs 3 uses, Arcthunder costs 5 uses, Thoron costs 8 uses
- Nosferatu has 4 uses
- Arcfire has 6 uses, the "gentlemen" jab finisher costs 1 use
- Elwind has 9 uses, every second you hold Robin's wind jab uses 1/2 a use,
- The Levin Sword has 8 uses
While all of these are important to pay attention to, I would suggest making particular effort towards keeping track of the uses left on arcfire and your Levin Sword. If either is unavailable at a crucial moment where you need to apply pressure then Robin loses a ton of momentum.
- The Thunder tome will flash when it has 5 uses left
- Nosferatu flashes with 1 use left
- Arcfire flashes with 1 use left
- Elwind flashes with 2 uses left
- The Levin sword flashes with 2 uses left
This is just all the basic data to keep in mind for item uses. Just as a personal recommendation: Because you mentioned you're new to Robin I wouldn't focus a tremendous amount on knowing exactly when your item is going to run out of charges. If Robin loses any of these it's not the end of the world, so try to focus on just getting the feel of Robin down for now. The flashing mechanic exists for a reason. I'd be surprised if any Robin player kept meticulous track of all their Elwind uses. Hope you have success playing everyone's favorite tactician!
This is a week late, if you already found answers to your questions or you moved on from Robin already then I apologize.
To answer the first question (How does Robin deal with characters that can switch from heavy defensive to constant aggression on three seconds?)
This is one of the biggest areas Robin struggles in. He has problems being aggressive in neutral, and he also has problems countering extreme aggression while he's in a disadvantaged state. Characters that can safely play defensively, then switch to offensive play on the fly are definitely a problem. I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly how to handle this myself, but my best advice is to remember all your options. Arcthunder is an incredible move, but it's not always the best at neutralizing heavy offensive play. Pretty much every guide you read will tell you to charge Thunder as much as you can, but sometimes, if you know the opponent has an offensive playstyle on a fast character like sonic or fox, peppering them with an uncharged neutral B can be an effective way to keep them from getting in.
Other than that, jab and nair can be good anti pressure options. If Elwind hits then it can work as a mixup for escaping pressure from below.
I pretty much answered the second question up there ^^^
For the third question: All of Robin's aerials are good. I'm going to say that again for emphasis. All of Robin's aerials are good. What makes them good, however, is knowing when you should be using them. I'll briefly go over each one to the best of my ability. All of these are taking into account that they're the Levin versions
As you mentioned, Bair is very good. The disjoint is fairly large, the speed, angle of the attack, and power are all incredible for a variety of uses. In addition to standard bair uses (ledge trumping, intercepting people who try to overextend, etc.) Bair is also incredibly good in neutral. It autocancels off of a short hop; due to its safety you can throw it out quite a bit.
A lot of people consider Fair to be better than Bair for a few reasons. One of them is that both of them can autocancel off of short hop and are good tools to use in neutral. Both of them have about the same horizontal range, but Fair has a better arc for applying pressure (although bair is still more useful in specific scenarios)
Fair will combo into itself at low percents, and it deals good damage.
Upair is Robin's best aerial in my opinion. It has tremendous knockback, and an extremely wide arc that it travels. It can be used after a Fair more often than not, and of course after a down throw for a kill. It also hits surprisingly low in front of Robin. It can be used to catch some people off guard with "aerial footsies" The weak hit (at the end of the animation just below and behind Robin) can combo into a strong upair or a bair depending on DI
Dair is the most niche aerial of Robin's, but it is still incredibly strong. You should pretty much only use it off stage if you see them recovering low. It looks like it hits in front of Robin, but it doesn't. Elwind is more reliable for a spike. Dair is a little less safe and a little more offensive. Nothing much else to say. It's just a solid, strong dair.
I haven't found the absolute best scenario to use Nair in, so maybe someone else can extrapolate on it for me. Nair is good for gimping due to the angle it sends people at. It has a good disjoint, so it's good for hitting around Robin's flanks, akin to a downsmash. I can't really say much more on it, and I wish I could. Nair is definitely really good, and should be used semi often.
Well glad you decided to pick up Robin! They have a bit of a learning curve, but they're very fun when you get into them.
The first step is familiarizing yourself with how many uses you have with every one of your item reliant moves.
You should always try to keep track of how many uses you have left on your items, but you can tell if an item has a low amount of uses left if it's flashing. You shouldn't rely too much on looking for flashing items, but it can be very useful in notifying you when Robin is about to toss them.
- Neutral Special has 20 uses, Thunder costs 1 use, Elthunder costs 3 uses, Arcthunder costs 5 uses, Thoron costs 8 uses
- Nosferatu has 4 uses
- Arcfire has 6 uses, the "gentlemen" jab finisher costs 1 use
- Elwind has 9 uses, every second you hold Robin's wind jab uses 1/2 a use,
- The Levin Sword has 8 uses
While all of these are important to pay attention to, I would suggest making particular effort towards keeping track of the uses left on arcfire and your Levin Sword. If either is unavailable at a crucial moment where you need to apply pressure then Robin loses a ton of momentum.
- The Thunder tome will flash when it has 5 uses left
- Nosferatu flashes with 1 use left
- Arcfire flashes with 1 use left
- Elwind flashes with 2 uses left
- The Levin sword flashes with 2 uses left
This is just all the basic data to keep in mind for item uses. Just as a personal recommendation: Because you mentioned you're new to Robin I wouldn't focus a tremendous amount on knowing exactly when your item is going to run out of charges. If Robin loses any of these it's not the end of the world, so try to focus on just getting the feel of Robin down for now. The flashing mechanic exists for a reason. I'd be surprised if any Robin player kept meticulous track of all their Elwind uses. Hope you have success playing everyone's favorite tactician!
This is a week late, if you already found answers to your questions or you moved on from Robin already then I apologize.
To answer the first question (How does Robin deal with characters that can switch from heavy defensive to constant aggression on three seconds?)
This is one of the biggest areas Robin struggles in. He has problems being aggressive in neutral, and he also has problems countering extreme aggression while he's in a disadvantaged state. Characters that can safely play defensively, then switch to offensive play on the fly are definitely a problem. I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly how to handle this myself, but my best advice is to remember all your options. Arcthunder is an incredible move, but it's not always the best at neutralizing heavy offensive play. Pretty much every guide you read will tell you to charge Thunder as much as you can, but sometimes, if you know the opponent has an offensive playstyle on a fast character like sonic or fox, peppering them with an uncharged neutral B can be an effective way to keep them from getting in.
Other than that, jab and nair can be good anti pressure options. If Elwind hits then it can work as a mixup for escaping pressure from below.
I pretty much answered the second question up there ^^^
For the third question: All of Robin's aerials are good. I'm going to say that again for emphasis. All of Robin's aerials are good. What makes them good, however, is knowing when you should be using them. I'll briefly go over each one to the best of my ability. All of these are taking into account that they're the Levin versions
As you mentioned, Bair is very good. The disjoint is fairly large, the speed, angle of the attack, and power are all incredible for a variety of uses. In addition to standard bair uses (ledge trumping, intercepting people who try to overextend, etc.) Bair is also incredibly good in neutral. It autocancels off of a short hop; due to its safety you can throw it out quite a bit.
A lot of people consider Fair to be better than Bair for a few reasons. One of them is that both of them can autocancel off of short hop and are good tools to use in neutral. Both of them have about the same horizontal range, but Fair has a better arc for applying pressure (although bair is still more useful in specific scenarios)
Fair will combo into itself at low percents, and it deals good damage.
Upair is Robin's best aerial in my opinion. It has tremendous knockback, and an extremely wide arc that it travels. It can be used after a Fair more often than not, and of course after a down throw for a kill. It also hits surprisingly low in front of Robin. It can be used to catch some people off guard with "aerial footsies" The weak hit (at the end of the animation just below and behind Robin) can combo into a strong upair or a bair depending on DI
Dair is the most niche aerial of Robin's, but it is still incredibly strong. You should pretty much only use it off stage if you see them recovering low. It looks like it hits in front of Robin, but it doesn't. Elwind is more reliable for a spike. Dair is a little less safe and a little more offensive. Nothing much else to say. It's just a solid, strong dair.
I haven't found the absolute best scenario to use Nair in, so maybe someone else can extrapolate on it for me. Nair is good for gimping due to the angle it sends people at. It has a good disjoint, so it's good for hitting around Robin's flanks, akin to a downsmash. I can't really say much more on it, and I wish I could. Nair is definitely really good, and should be used semi often.
Yeah, considering that Elwind is frame 8(? IIRC) it basically gives you get a free spike if you get good at the timing of punishing ledge options. I'm no-where near consistent enough with it, but again, I just wanted to know if it was even worth training - I completely forgot about the ledge-grab vulnerability frames, too, so I might start aiming for those over the actual get-up option when possible.
As far as I know, it's just that taking damage while grabbed will shorten the time it takes to break free, mostly to avoid pummels taking forever I'd imagine. You can test it just by holding a grab in practice without pummels compared to pummeling once, twice, etc.
From the little bit of testing I did fire jab seems to now true combo without the need to delay inputs or anything starting around 35% on Fox and around 40% on Link. Floaties (like Link) seem to be able to sometimes escape starting around 130 or 140% if they DI up and mash jump, but someone would need to look into it a bit more.
How do you do jab jab grab? I always end up using fire when I hit grab. Are there any other inputs?
No, you have to wait a bit, then input grab. The timing is tricky; too early and you fire jab, too late and you miss. You'll have to practice to get it right.
The answer to this is YES, the Checkmate is 100% a TRUE combo, meaning it is inescapable, with the only action its recipients can perform being DI, which can be read. Don't mean to be blunt, but if you are having trouble landing it, that is pretty much your own fault.
Dthrow's weight dependent, meaning heavy characters will add more endlag to your throw.
Here's some suggestions that's helped me hit it consistently.
