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The Bandicoot Returns (and It's About Time!) Crash's Nitro-Fueled Smash Thread

Brother AJ

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You know, I use to be so sure Crash would be coming as one of the last newcomers for Ultimate. But now, I'm not so sure anymore since no one is truly a lock. I have had some predictions thrown out here and there, but I have no real idea how Ultimate's DLC lineup is going to end as Sakurai and co are so unpredictable.
I wouldn't say unpredictable. We can form a reasonable idea of what they'll do based on precedent. Of course, we won't get it right every time, but we can definitely narrow things down.

With first party DLC, Nintendo leans HEAVILY towards promoting recent games. With 3rd party in general Nintendo almost exclusively has added characters from franchises with very high sale numbers and/or that are well established/classic. Literally the only exception to this has been Bayonetta, and she's practically a Nintendo character.
 

okamifire

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I wouldn't say unpredictable. We can form a reasonable idea of what they'll do based on precedent. Of course, we won't get it right every time, but we can definitely narrow things down.

With first party DLC, Nintendo leans HEAVILY towards promoting recent games. With 3rd party in general Nintendo almost exclusively has added characters from franchises with very high sale numbers and/or that are well established/classic. Literally the only exception to this has been Bayonetta, and she's practically a Nintendo character.
I agree. You'll see some people claiming the 3rd party characters all come from obscure series or aren't well known, but at least in the passes up to this point, this is definitely not the case. I think Banjo is the most out there / not as popular by today's standards, but the other ones are absolutely from extremely relevant or popular series.

If you look at any list of "Top RPGs for PS4" (or XBox, whatever), you'll find Dragon Quest XI S, Persona 5, and Final Fantasy VII Remake on it. I dare you to find another fighting game with as many releases and iterations as King of Fighters (okay, okay, Fatal Fury isn't quite KoF, but it's basically the modern day equivalent and Terry is in all of them anyway). They might not be Smash Brothers or Tekken level successes, but there are dozens of them spanning basically all generations of games with a new one out soon. Steve needs no explanation, highest selling video game of all time.

Banjo, while being the character I've wanted since Melee, is the black sheep of the bunch. Sure, the games were good back on the 64 and among 3D platformers they're still solid, but there aren't any new games, the fan base is pretty age and genre specific, and it's looking like Rare doesn't have immediate plans to piggyback off of recent Smash success. (I hope I'm wrong, I'd love a new BK game!)

So yeah, the 3rd party characters are all big names, or at least all from big series. I think this meshes with Crash's chances just fine. Crash is to PS1 like Banjo is to N64, except Activision has recently in the last few years realized they can milk more $ out by rereleases, mobile games, and a new game. (I don't mean it to be negative, I just mean they realize they can monetize from Crash's name and character. And really, it should be that way, players just get attached to the character sometimes.)

It doesn't really bode well for any non established Indie (and even those that have been around a while like Shantae simply don't have the sales), any standalone game that isn't part of an umbrella franchise, or something that didn't sell well.

Now obviously Nintendo could be like "Hey, you know what, these characters from this series are really cool, we're going to add them", it's just that there isn't precedence for that yet.

And you're spot on with 1st party. While again obviously possible, so far every 1st party DLC has been from a game or series that came out in the last 5 years. I'm not going to count Piranha Plant (though you could, because they're in almost every iteration of Mario games, and there have been some new Mario games in the last 5 years, even if they're rereleases).

Now I don't know if Nintendo will continue to pull from the RPG genre in which case a Tales character would 100% fit in with picks, a platformer which Crash would, a Rhythm genre which Don-Chan would rep perfectly, etc. etc., but I would legit be colored surprised if we got a 3rd party character that hasn't had some recent success or is part of a franchise that sells well. Or a 1st party that isn't from a game that came out after 2010.

But of course, Nintendo can do whatever they want obviously.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I wouldn't say unpredictable. We can form a reasonable idea of what they'll do based on precedent. Of course, we won't get it right every time, but we can definitely narrow things down.

With first party DLC, Nintendo leans HEAVILY towards promoting recent games. With 3rd party in general Nintendo almost exclusively has added characters from franchises with very high sale numbers and/or that are well established/classic. Literally the only exception to this has been Bayonetta, and she's practically a Nintendo character.
The key here is to try to determine any character that's within the realm of reason until they get spirited/Miied/Whammied with absolutely nothing, and try not to overlook anyone.

In this case, it's hard to tell what recent game Crash would be added to promote, seeing as he's already had four of them released ever since his series revived. Also, I still think that Kamiya had pushed for Bayonetta hard, seeing as he wants his other characters he's created to be added to Smash, despite all of them basically being owned by either Capcom or Nintendo.

In terms of first-party characters, if we don't get any bonus DLC announced by the end of the year, then I wouldn't be too shocked if Ayumi Tachibana got in one of the current two slots, seeing as Famicom Detective Club's remakes are releasing next month.
 
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ChunkySlugger72

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agree. You'll see some people claiming the 3rd party characters all come from obscure series or aren't well known, but at least in the passes up to this point, this is definitely not the case. I think Banjo is the most out there / not as popular by today's standards, but the other ones are absolutely from extremely relevant or popular series.
While it's debatable and honestly probably doesn't mean much, But I'd argue that Banjo-Kazooie has more clout than Bayonetta who I personally believe has the weakest "Star Power" of the 3rd party characters.

While Bayonetta is getting a 3rd game (Eventually), Most people didn't seem to really care about the franchise until it got it's sequel announced and that mostly happened because Nintendo was publishing it.

Banjo-Kazooie may not be the biggest 3rd party character in Smash, But it's origins and ties with Nintendo through the partnership of company Rareware (Even being legally owned by them before) make them a unique 3rd party character addition who's Smash debut has been a longtime coming and a true "Underdog" story really since the N64/Melee era.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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While it's debatable and honestly probably doesn't mean much, But I'd argue that Banjo-Kazooie has more clout than Bayonetta who I personally believe has the weakest "Star Power" of the 3rd party characters.

While Bayonetta is getting a 3rd game (Eventually), Most people didn't seem to really care about the franchise until it got it's sequel announced and that mostly happened because Nintendo was publishing it.

Banjo-Kazooie may not be the biggest 3rd party character in Smash, But it's origins and ties with Nintendo through the partnership of company Rareware (Even being legally owned by them before) make them a unique 3rd party character addition who's Smash debut has been a longtime coming and a true "Underdog" story really since the N64/Melee era.
Kamiya had been pretty vocal about wanting Bayonetta in Smash (linked post due to obvious language reasons), so I suspect that getting Nintendo to publish her sequel was instrumental to succeeding with that (especially seeing as they previously published Madworld on the Wii, so his company Platinum had history with them before that)

Plus it was a convenient circumventing of Sak's "history" criteria. As long as you have more than one game, you're viable I guess.

Then again, it's hard to say no to someone who's likely to insult you even on a good day.
 
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TDDolphin

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While it's debatable and honestly probably doesn't mean much, But I'd argue that Banjo-Kazooie has more clout than Bayonetta who I personally believe has the weakest "Star Power" of the 3rd party characters.

While Bayonetta is getting a 3rd game (Eventually), Most people didn't seem to really care about the franchise until it got it's sequel announced and that mostly happened because Nintendo was publishing it.

Banjo-Kazooie may not be the biggest 3rd party character in Smash, But it's origins and ties with Nintendo through the partnership of company Rareware (Even being legally owned by them before) make them a unique 3rd party character addition who's Smash debut has been a longtime coming and a true "Underdog" story really since the N64/Melee era.
At this point I would consider Bayonetta an unofficial Nintendo character, so it probably doesn't matter if she's considered the 3rd Party character with the least star power.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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At this point I would consider Bayonetta an unofficial Nintendo character, so it probably doesn't matter if she's considered the 3rd Party character with the least star power.
Regardless of that, video games having all-star characters as a concept seems pretty flexible. I recently acquired a book imported from France that's about the greatest video game heroes (Les Plus Grands Héros du Jeu Vidéo), specifically those who left their mark on video game history in some degree, and I gotta say, it hardly shows any discrimination as to who made the cut (though they had to leave out a lot of characters for convenience's sake).

It features 120 of them. Ranges from big names like Mario and Pac-Man, to more recent ones like the Inklings and Steve/Alex, to lower-key cases like Bayonetta and Phoenix Wright, to stars that fell and revived like Banjo & Kazooie and Earthworm Jim, to even the practically forgotten Bonk and Conker.

While it may be subjective, if the writers of the book aren't that difficult about video game star power being deserving of having equal focus among both the mainstream and the fan-favorites, why should we?

Also, I consider Byleth an unofficial Koei Tecmo character, but that's besides the point.
 

TDDolphin

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Also, I consider Byleth an unofficial Koei Tecmo character, but that's besides the point.
🤷‍♂️ I guess that's kinda true too. Huh... now I don't feel so weird about Ryu Hayabusa missing the cut for Ultimate, since I still believe that Koei Tecmo has earned a character. But I could just look at Byleth as the unofficial Koei Tecmo Smash character. Cool!

That book sounds like something I might like too!
 
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RetrogamerMax

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While it's debatable and honestly probably doesn't mean much, But I'd argue that Banjo-Kazooie has more clout than Bayonetta who I personally believe has the weakest "Star Power" of the 3rd party characters.

While Bayonetta is getting a 3rd game (Eventually), Most people didn't seem to really care about the franchise until it got it's sequel announced and that mostly happened because Nintendo was publishing it.

Banjo-Kazooie may not be the biggest 3rd party character in Smash, But it's origins and ties with Nintendo through the partnership of company Rareware (Even being legally owned by them before) make them a unique 3rd party character addition who's Smash debut has been a longtime coming and a true "Underdog" story really since the N64/Melee era.
I would even say Banjo & Kazooie are above Joker despite Persona 5 alone selling more copies than the whole Banjo-Kazooie series combined. Banjo & Kazooie were one of the faces of the N64 and Rare in general. They're a important piece to Rare and Nintendo's history and that alone I think puts them above a few of the other 3rd parties.
 

ChunkySlugger72

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At this point I would consider Bayonetta an unofficial Nintendo character, so it probably doesn't matter if she's considered the 3rd Party character with the least star power.
I get that, I'm not hating on the franchise, All I'm saying is if you had to rank all 3rd party characters in Smash in terms of "Star Power", Pac-Man and Sonic the Hedgehog are in top tier while Banjo-Kazooie, Terry and Bayonetta would all be on the lower tier for example.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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I get that, I'm not hating on the franchise, All I'm saying is if you had to rank all 3rd party characters in Smash in terms of "Star Power", Pac-Man and Sonic the Hedgehog are in top tier while Banjo-Kazooie, Terry and Bayonetta would all be on the lower tier for example.
What about Joker? I would put Banjo & Kazooie, Terry and Bayonetta right beside them or below. I don't think Joker is more iconic than Banjo & Kazooie even though Persona 5 alone sold more copies than the entire Banjo-Kazooie series.
 

Ben Holt

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After thinking about it, I do have a bit of possibly good news for Crash Bandicoot coming to Smash.

I said previously not to look too much into how much Nintendo is marketing Crash, as Nintendo markets Monster Hunter like they own the damned IP, and Monster Hunter is all but deconfirmed to be playable.

But I did notice something...
Of all the third parties Nintendo seems to be close to recently, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Capcom, Sega, etc., Activision is one of the only heavily marketed third parties to have ZERO content in Smash Ultimate. No Spirits, Events, Mii Costumes, or anything.
Perhaps this is intentional. Perhaps Nintendo and Activision are consciously avoiding Spirit Events in Smash so that people don't immediately point to Crash.
Again, take this with a massive heaping of salt, but this could be a potential hint at Crash (or Tracer, I guess) coming to Smash and opening the floodgates for Activision Mii Costumes and Spirit Events.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I keep catching myself thinking "only two more months until Crash". Good lord I've GOT to stop doing that... :facepalm: lol
Now you know exactly how I felt with Banjo & Kazooie. Every time some noteworthy stream happened, at the back of my mind, I thought "Banjo? Maybe not...". Hyping responsibly is difficult.

🤷‍♂️ I guess that's kinda true too. Huh... now I don't feel so weird about Ryu Hayabusa missing the cut for Ultimate, since I still believe that Koei Tecmo has earned a character. But I could just look at Byleth as the unofficial Koei Tecmo Smash character. Cool!

That book sounds like something I might like too!
Yeah, just keep in mind that the book was released in 2018, so some of the articles are slightly outdated in some aspects.

After thinking about it, I do have a bit of possibly good news for Crash Bandicoot coming to Smash.

I said previously not to look too much into how much Nintendo is marketing Crash, as Nintendo markets Monster Hunter like they own the damned IP, and Monster Hunter is all but deconfirmed to be playable.

But I did notice something...
Of all the third parties Nintendo seems to be close to recently, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Capcom, Sega, etc., Activision is one of the only heavily marketed third parties to have ZERO content in Smash Ultimate. No Spirits, Events, Mii Costumes, or anything.
Perhaps this is intentional. Perhaps Nintendo and Activision are consciously avoiding Spirit Events in Smash so that people don't immediately point to Crash.
Again, take this with a massive heaping of salt, but this could be a potential hint at Crash (or Tracer, I guess) coming to Smash and opening the floodgates for Activision Mii Costumes and Spirit Events.
That's a fair point.

Also, another thing, every playable third-party included so far has at least one sequel for their series, and since Overwatch 2 still won't release any time soon (seeing as they rather would promote any game that's readily available to people), that might spell good news for Crash.

Good call. There's always the possibility that Crash isn't one of the final 2 fighters after all.
And the possibility that Nintendo got plans for extra bonus DLC after all when this one concludes, if there's enough room left in the game (Sak saying that anything is over tends to not hold up for too long). There's too many variables to consider.

As far as Crash's chances are concerned though, I think that E3 would be his last chance to get a Smash announcement. I still find it weird that Crash happenings occurred on March rather than June this year, so it could mean something.
 
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Brother AJ

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After thinking about it, I do have a bit of possibly good news for Crash Bandicoot coming to Smash.

I said previously not to look too much into how much Nintendo is marketing Crash, as Nintendo markets Monster Hunter like they own the damned IP, and Monster Hunter is all but deconfirmed to be playable.

But I did notice something...
Of all the third parties Nintendo seems to be close to recently, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Capcom, Sega, etc., Activision is one of the only heavily marketed third parties to have ZERO content in Smash Ultimate. No Spirits, Events, Mii Costumes, or anything.
Perhaps this is intentional. Perhaps Nintendo and Activision are consciously avoiding Spirit Events in Smash so that people don't immediately point to Crash.
Again, take this with a massive heaping of salt, but this could be a potential hint at Crash (or Tracer, I guess) coming to Smash and opening the floodgates for Activision Mii Costumes and Spirit Events.
Yep, this is exactly what I was talking about a few pages ago! It seems like we'll get at least SOMETHING Activision related in Smash at this point. Hopefully the lack of anything right now leads to a character. I feel like they'll be likely to go with a more classic franchise like Crash regardless of what the content ends up being. Maybe we'll get Crash AND OW content though, who knows?

Now you know exactly how I felt with Banjo & Kazooie. Every time some noteworthy stream happened, at the back of my mind, I thought "Banjo? Maybe not...". Hyping responsibly is difficult.
I was right there with you friend. I was all over the damn place with B&K. I was utterly convinced they were going to be in at one point, and then I was thinking they probably weren't going to happen. When Hero was shown off during E3 2019 my faith was at an all time low, and then I preceded to lose my freaking mind and literally scream. My faith in Crash is going on a similar route, and hopefully it pays off...
 
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ChunkySlugger72

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What about Joker? I would put Banjo & Kazooie, Terry and Bayonetta right beside them or below. I don't think Joker is more iconic than Banjo & Kazooie even though Persona 5 alone sold more copies than the entire Banjo-Kazooie series.
That's kind of a gray area, I don't know jack **** about Persona, But I would imagine that it's a solid successful JRPG series that is popular in Japan and has somewhat consistent releases, I would imagine the franchise is bigger than the character itself and more popular outside Nintendo and more on Playstation.

But in the context of Smash which while it has 3rd party characters it's still a Nintendo game at it's core and seeing how Banjo-Kazooie was one of the most requested I'd probably say he's was still bigger deal within Nintendo/Smash fans than Joker, It's "Almost" a somewhat a middle of the pack situation where it's not a big gap like say comparing Pac-Man to Bayonetta.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Yep, this is exactly what I was talking about a few pages ago! It seems like we'll get at least SOMETHING Activision related in Smash at this point. Hopefully the lack of anything right now leads to a character. I feel like they'll be likely to go with a more classic franchise like Crash regardless of what the content ends up being. Maybe we'll get Crash AND OW content though, who knows?


I was right there with you friend. I was all over the damn place with B&K. I was utterly convinced they were going to be in at one point, and then I was thinking they probably weren't going to happen. When Hero was shown off during E3 2019 my faith was at an all time low, and then I preceded to lose my freaking mind and literally scream. My faith in Crash is going on a similar route, and hopefully it pays off...
If past precedents for third-parties mean anything, they tend to go after a more classic mascot first, so your thinking wouldn't be too far off.

For instance, :ultmegaman: followed by :ultryu: and :ultbanjokazooie: by :ultsteve:, both succeeding each other in the same games. While :ultsonic: and :ultpacman: have carried their entire companies by themselves (and still doing so to this day, in the latter's case).

So unless Pitfall Harry came out of nowhere, it seems to me like Crash would be prioritized, especially after the hard push his series got these past few years.
 
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rfarleydude97

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So this came up today and I'll try my best to summarize of what this could mean that a fellow friend told me about this:

1. More DLC (in some way or another that I feel like isn't the last two we're already expecting)
2. An expansion of some sort
3. Something else that is not the other two options, like the Amiibo for Fighter Pass 2 (?), or something else.

Or very simply: The next DLC fighter is on it's way soon either before or during E3.
 
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TDDolphin

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So this came up today and I'll try my best to summarize of what this could mean that a fellow friend told me about this:

1. More DLC (in some way or another that I feel like isn't the last two we're already expecting)
2. An expansion of some sort
3. Something else that is not the other two options, like the Amiibo for Fighter Pass 2 (?), or something else.

Or very simply: The next DLC fighter is on it's way soon either before or during E3.
I'm pretty sure he was just hinting at Challenger Pack 10 being revealed soon.
 

Starlight Liger

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I agree. You'll see some people claiming the 3rd party characters all come from obscure series or aren't well known, but at least in the passes up to this point, this is definitely not the case. I think Banjo is the most out there / not as popular by today's standards, but the other ones are absolutely from extremely relevant or popular series.

Banjo, while being the character I've wanted since Melee, is the black sheep of the bunch. Sure, the games were good back on the 64 and among 3D platformers they're still solid, but there aren't any new games, the fan base is pretty age and genre specific, and it's looking like Rare doesn't have immediate plans to piggyback off of recent Smash success. (I hope I'm wrong, I'd love a new BK game!)
Banjo and Kazooie were added because they were popular in the Smash Bros ballot and their status as third-party characters gave them enough value to be sold as DLC. it also helped that Phil Spencer welcomed the idea and he probably made their inclusion as part of the deal with having Steve for Smash Bros.

At this point I would consider Bayonetta an unofficial Nintendo character, so it probably doesn't matter if she's considered the 3rd Party character with the least star power.
Bayonetta 2 was funded by Nintendo so Nintendo has joint custody with Sega for the ownership of Bayonetta with Bayonetta 2 and Bayonetta 3.
 

RetrogamerMax

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So this came up today and I'll try my best to summarize of what this could mean that a fellow friend told me about this:

1. More DLC (in some way or another that I feel like isn't the last two we're already expecting)
2. An expansion of some sort
3. Something else that is not the other two options, like the Amiibo for Fighter Pass 2 (?), or something else.

Or very simply: The next DLC fighter is on it's way soon either before or during E3.
I think he probably means the 2 months to E3 won't be that much longer. But if we do get another character before E3, I definitely believe Fighter's Pass 3 happening or else why not reveal the last 2 fighters at E3 otherwise?
 

TDDolphin

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I would definitely not complain, there's still plenty of worthy characters for Smash. But unless it's outright confirmed otherwise, I'm just assuming FP2 is the end of Ultimate DLC, to minimize the disappointment.
I just don't think we're getting a Fighters Pass Vol. 3. Sakurai has been pretty adamant about FP2 being the last DLC for Ultimate since long before Min Min even came out, and I think we need to prepare ourselves for these last 2 characters (plus the bonus fighter, if that's real), being the last ones.
 
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Brother AJ

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So this came up today and I'll try my best to summarize of what this could mean that a fellow friend told me about this:

1. More DLC (in some way or another that I feel like isn't the last two we're already expecting)
2. An expansion of some sort
3. Something else that is not the other two options, like the Amiibo for Fighter Pass 2 (?), or something else.

Or very simply: The next DLC fighter is on it's way soon either before or during E3.
Yea, this is definately interesting. Especially the "he's also been working on something else" bit. No, I don't think it's FP3, but it could be a new game mode. He did specifically say that Home Run Contest was "pretty much" the final mode. An echo fighter pack maybe?

Personally I don't think he's referring to Amiibos since it should pretty much be a given that he's working on those. Why would he need to be mysterious about them?

My personal conspiracy theory: It's going to be some sort of echo fighter that comes with CP10, so Sakurai wasn't lying about there being only being two presentations left. This echo fighter is COCO BANDICOOT, and she comes free with Crash. She was also the additional character that was allegedly leaked by Nintendo Australia. That's it... it's gonna happen. :shades:
 

rfarleydude97

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Yea, this is definately interesting. Especially the "he's also been working on something else" bit. No, I don't think it's FP3, but it could be a new game mode. He did specifically say that Home Run Contest was "pretty much" the final mode. An echo fighter pack maybe?

Personally I don't think he's referring to Amiibos since it should pretty much be a given that he's working on those. Why would he need to be mysterious about them?

My personal conspiracy theory: It's going to be some sort of echo fighter that comes with CP10, so Sakurai wasn't lying about there being only being two presentations left. This echo fighter is COCO BANDICOOT, and she comes free with Crash. She was also the additional character that was allegedly leaked by Nintendo Australia. That's it... it's gonna happen. :shades:
I can't tell if the last part with Nintendo Australia is legit or just troll.

Either way, I'm interested in seeing what happens within the next few months leading up to E3 and during E3 itself. It'll be fun!
 

Brother AJ

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I can't tell if the last part with Nintendo Australia is legit or just troll.

Either way, I'm interested in seeing what happens within the next few months leading up to E3 and during E3 itself. It'll be fun!
LOL! Er... looks like I confused Australia and New Zealand. It was Nintendo NZ that supposedly leaked the "extra character" everyone is speculating about. It would be funny if that extra character was Coco since they're so close to Australia the home of bandicoots.

EDIT: Upon looking at the article translation on Twitter, I'm thinking that maybe Sakurai WAS just talking about the DLC fighters. He was talking about the Pics of the Day for most of it, and he said they (the pics) weren't all he was working on (implying the DLC packs already announced). That's what I'm thinking right now anyway...
 
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