The "B" Button, a Tutorial on Safe and Reliable Options.

[jiovanni007]

So Kirbies, how many times do you press the "B" button during a match? How many times have you seen Chu or Y.b.M. hit the "B" button in a match? Very few if any. The purpose of this is to review two moves that have limited options, but prove to be the best by far in their own situational aspects.

First up is Neutral B.
This is Kirby's signature move from his games where it normally reigns supreme and strikes fear into its opponents. In SSBB it is but a watered down version of the super weapon that Kirby fans know it for. However, do not fret. I have found a very useful option for inhale that proves to be the best option in the situation. Shield campers. We hate them. We have no projectiles to pressure from afar so we must space bairs to pressure the shield. Unfortunately, this can prove to be predictable and against a full shield it only extends the stalemate that we obviously have against our opponent. With very few exceptions (RE: Marth, MK, ICs) an inhale will strike fear into your opponents as if they were a lone Waddle Doo in Kirby Superstar. Instead of simply pressuring the shield with a bair, you can bypass it totally with an inhale.

Let's take a quick second to review the numbers. A shield drop takes 7 frames to complete.

Spoiler

I'm not totally sure but I'm pretty sure Shuttle Loop and Dolphin Slash ignore this.

Inhale begins its hitbox on frame 19. Instead of approaching a known shield camper with a bair to pressure and make yourself predictable, give them some damage. They would not only have to predict an inhale, but also react and have the hitbox of a move come out within 12 frames. That's 0.2s to react and have an appropriate hitbox come out. That is just humanly impossible to be frank. The only downside is that it can be read. If someone reads a bair they are pressed for options and will usually shieldcamp. If they can read an inhale, then most characters can react with a jab, utilt or something similar. It does however beat those pesky spotdodgers. Falcos and Warios who find sanctuary in the backside of the Z-axis with cower in fear of returning to the front of it when they see the gaping maw of a baby star warrior ready to devour them.

Second is Side B:
Normally the most we see from this move is when a Kirby player uses it to recover as compensation for our rather average aerial mobility. In the air the damage is good, but the range is meh and the start up is meh-er. On the ground it has a slow start up, has a hitbox for only 2 frames and has horrendous lag. If you don't think you can mindgame someone into this then you can use these options to put it to maximum use. When someone grabs the edge pay attention to how they get back on the stage. The most important part here is what certain characters like to do or have habits of doing. If you see someone that loves to roll back onto stage then you need to punish them every single time with a grounded hammer. The invincibility frames on ledge rolls are not what you would expect and get worse when your opponent has over %100. Use this to your advantage and get a reliable kill easily.

Discuss?

 

[MikeKirby]

I usually do an Inhale against shield campers, yes. I especially like doing B-reversals with it if I am trying to land from up high like the Snakes do. It catches them off guard quite often.

As for Side-B I only use the aerial version of it. I don't use it to recover unless it's an emergency (ex. >2 jumps left to recover from afar). I don't like that phantom lag. I also use it if I string a wall of B-airs. I read an aerial dodge and I land the second hit which has really strong horizontal knockback. That usually seals the stock.

 

[Kewkky]

The reason why MK's and Marth's upB work is because they're jump-cancelled. Instead of dropping your shield and upB'ing, what you do is jump while your shield is up (cancels your shield and goes into the jumping animation, 0 frames of shield drop), then upB at the start of the jump to cancel the jump into a grounded upB (or an usmash, both work). This is a very common thing in Melee, jump-cancelled grabs, upBs, wavedashes, and OoS aerials are popular because characters don't have to wait for the atrocious shieldstun+shielddrop to end before finally being able to do anything.

I personally only use neutralB offstage, or near the edges, and only for kirbicides and its variations. I've tried implementing copy abilities into my game, but there's only a handful of characters whose abilities actually help you in higher-level matches and getting those inhales is a pain. As for sideB, I rarely if ever use it. I use it as surprise aerial killers like everyone does and recovery extensions, but nothing else.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I do wonder if everyone is so use to Kirby's B-Air that seeing an aerial Side-B will throw them off? It happens. ★

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Good players aren't not going to be easy to inhale. They aren't easy and Kirby is wide open if he can't get them in 1 shot with inhale since he is open to a Fsmash or they get behind him and punish Kirby how they see fit. Like Kewkky said as far as inhale goes I'll use it when I'm off the stage or near the edge but I'm more careful when near edges since players will usually assume you'll try to use inhale. From playing and testing there are only a few characters that have abilities that I like to have at my disposal. Playing so many battles having those Projectiles makes the battles go a little easier. The only pain is when Kirby gets hit and he loses the ability.

 

[t!MmY]

☆ I do wonder if everyone is so use to Kirby's B-Air that seeing an aerial Side-B will throw them off? It happens. ★

This is very true.
You can use Giant Swing to mix up B-air when you know your opponent is sitting in their shield and ready to punish. Often times the ShieldHitLag is enough to throw their timing off since they're expecting much less lag from a B-air.

 

[Kewkky]

This is very true.
You can use Giant Swing to mix up B-air when you know your opponent is sitting in their shield and ready to punish. Often times the ShieldHitLag is enough to throw their timing off since they're expecting much less lag from a B-air.

To tell you the truth, and i'm not exaggerating, my experiences don't say the same thing. If I try mixing up a sideB my opponent will react to it by rolling behind me, approaching as soon as they're out of shieldstun, or simply try again with an option that'll cover both bair and sideB. The top players in PR usually do it too, they react pretty fast to gimmicks like this even if I try to be as unpredictable as I can safely be, so I can't say I feel the same way.

 

[t!MmY]

You're right Kewkky, and when you're right, you're right. I guess I should clarify that I was talking about 'most players' - that is to say, people that you play against at tournaments who don't play against Kirby regularly (which is the majority of players).

When someone plays against a Kirby very often, they learn to punish things like B-air camping, Side Special mix-ups, as well as a variety of other things. I'm going to say that you've given the people at your tournaments A LOT of good Kirby experience. XD

But I'm sure you can relate with me that when you play against someone who doesn't know the Kirby match-up it's a lot of fun to Shield Pressure with Dash Attack, juggle with U-airs, and et cetera.

 

[Triple R]

But I'm sure you can relate with me that when you play against someone who doesn't know the Kirby match-up it's a lot of fun to Shield Pressure with Dash Attack, juggle with U-airs, and et cetera.

OMG those are all fun things to do early on in brackets lol. Attack their shield without reserve! Slaughter them!

 

[Kewkky]

But I'm sure you can relate with me that when you play against someone who doesn't know the Kirby match-up it's a lot of fun to Shield Pressure with Dash Attack, juggle with U-airs, and et cetera.

Hahaha, you have no idea! Three stocks here and there, just go in and don't come back out until they're dead. When you destroy a stock, they approach carelessly trying to get 'revenge', so ledge-hopped inhales ALWAYS work, and that's 2 stocks in less than 2 minutes while you barely even took damage!

 

[fromundaman]

Playing D3s who don't know the MU is the most fun thing ever. Inhale breaks all day baby!

 

[t!MmY]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention:

There's a safe way of using the F-Special in place of a B-air against a Shield.
If the opponent is shielding near the edge you can use Giant Swing's increased shield-knockback to send them back over the ledge where they are unable to counterattack. The Giant Swing also drains shields a little better than B-air which makes it more difficult for them to deal with further Shield pressure.

I remembered this because I did it in my match against Zex this last weekend.

 

[fromundaman]

I prefer shield poking with it myself. Rising Bair>SideB *can* work if used sparingly and you can tell it will shieldpoke.

 

[MikeKirby]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention:

There's a safe way of using the F-Special in place of a B-air against a Shield.
If the opponent is shielding near the edge you can use Giant Swing's increased shield-knockback to send them back over the ledge where they are unable to counterattack. The Giant Swing also drains shields a little better than B-air which makes it more difficult for them to deal with further Shield pressure.

I remembered this because I did it in my match against Zex this last weekend.

Hmmm, kinda, iunno. If they have good b-air or f-air (depending on which way they are facing) they can strike you. They can cancel their tumble animation with a mid-air jump and attack. Unless the shield push given to push them over the edge is really far to say it's safe on block. I guess I'll just have to try it out for myself. =]

 

[D Who?]

When you're playing a Snake and you're both at low percents and you have a safe chance to inhale, should you do it or would there be better options.

Situation:

Kirby is at 23% and snake is at 44%
Snake Ftilts while your behind him.
Inhale is an option, what other things would be better?

Sorry I'm asking so many questions, it's my favorite match with Kirby and I love Snakes nades on Kirby

 

[t!MmY]

An Inhale is a really good thing to get on Snake, not even taking Kirbycide into account. If you can get Grenades, it makes the match-up much more fair. The only other thing you'd want to do to Snake in place of Inhale around 40% would be a U-tilt (get him into the air), a D-tilt (trip into a combo) or maybe a Smash attack (get him off stage). You could also go for an aerial, but it would be for the same purposes (get him into the air, combo him, or get him off-stage).

Don't worry about asking too many questions. It promotes discussion and most likely helps someone else who has similar questions but doesn't ask.

 

[D Who?]

Alright, thank you. And I have a tourny the 26th. It'll be my Kirby's debut. I'll post results. And what the easiest way to rise bair? I can only do it sometimes.

 

[Kewkky]

To easily do rising bairs, use the A button instead of the c-stick. Y>A or X>A, whichever feels most comfortable to you. However, since using the c-stick for aerials is better in the long run, it's up to you to decide. Me, I use the A button normally, and for retreating aerials I use the c-stick.

 

[Robin1613]

Fact: kirby can camp better than anyone with their own power.

~ledge camping with nades against snake (if they try to stop ur camp by going offstage theyre in a very bad position)

~Kirby can camp with lazers better than falco (getting around his reflector is a pain though)

 

[jiovanni007]

Fact: kirby can camp better than anyone with their own power.

~ledge camping with nades against snake (if they try to stop ur camp by going offstage theyre in a very bad position)

~Kirby can camp with lazers better than falco (getting around his reflector is a pain though)

Kinda hard to camp Diddy honestly. He's too mobile and the popgun doesn't suit Kirby that well.

With Falco, don't SHTL, SHDL will allow you to duck under reflected lasers. His power is best used to gimp his recovery.

Don't forget Pikachu, Olimar and Lucario. With Pika you can aircamp. With Olimar's power you can spam pikmin at him and it puts the matchup in our favor. With Lucario, Kirby's Aura Sphere stays at a fixed aura so when he's at low % ours will eat through his.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Diddy's power is okay for gimping his recovery

 

[MikeKirby]

If anything, if you have his power and take control of both bananas, you can force an approach and kinda camp like he does.

 

[D Who?]

It seems like every time I have a chance to inhale, I have way better options. Or maybe the inhale is a better long term option? It's like a gamble. Do you guys know how and why the caps get knocked off? It seems random unless you taunt.

@Kewkky, Thanks for the advice, it helped alot.

 

[jiovanni007]

It seems like every time I have a chance to inhale, I have way better options. Or maybe the inhale is a better long term option? It's like a gamble. Do you guys know how and why the caps get knocked off? It seems random unless you taunt.

@Kewkky, Thanks for the advice, it helped alot.

It's more of a long term investment so to speak. If you catch a Falco in a spotdodge you can fsmash and try for a gimp or inhale and have a tool that increases your gimping capabilities.

 

[D Who?]

Thats what I was thinking. Is there a thread about how caps get knocked off? Or is it just when people dair you? Cause I was playing my friends and every dair they did that hit knocked my cap off

 

[Triple R]

Thats what I was thinking. Is there a thread about how caps get knocked off? Or is it just when people dair you? Cause I was playing my friends and every dair they did that hit knocked my cap off

Kirby's powers are knocked out of him randomly. There seems to be no correlation between attacks and being knocked out. Even wind hitboxes like G&W's uair and DDD's inhale can knock out his power.

 

[D Who?]

Lame. Well now I know to be more careful when I have the cap.

 

[Kewkky]

Lame. Well now I know to be more careful when I have the cap.

Yeah, it is pretty lame indeed. That's why no high-level Kirbies go for copy abilities, even though having them can turn a match around; one hit and your copy ability might disappear, then you're back to where you started but now you're angry as well. The way a match's momentum changes the moment you have the power knocked out of you during high-level games make taking copy abilities not a good idea and gives you another thing to worry about. Of course, there's still people like me and other Kirby mainers who still try to incorporate copy abilities into their gameplay, but it's definitely easier said than done.

 

[MK26]

Alright, thank you. And I have a tourny the 26th. It'll be my Kirby's debut. I'll post results. And what the easiest way to rise bair? I can only do it sometimes.

change jump to a shoulder button
c-stick

(this applies to everybody)

 

[fromundaman]

A shoulder button jump? Ugh... >.< You better have springs removed.

IMO sliding from Y to A is the easiest way, but to each his own.

 

[D Who?]

I actually have my L to jump. I use it to OoS and imitate tap jump

 

[Kewkky]

I don't want to have anything changed in my controller except tap jump. Makes the transition from Brawl to Melee much simpler.

 

[Triple R]

I leave my controller at default just because I play Melee too. I think it would be a pain going back and forth all the time between two different control screens. Plus by the time Brawl came out I was so used to default controls I found no reason to try something different.

 

[jiovanni007]

I just change grab to Y since in use X to SH and analog stick to full hop. Having a button that's actually a button and not a POS switch of some sort makes grabbing, pivot grabbing, and boost pivot grabbing a whole lot easier.

 

[Triple R]

I will admit pivoting grabbing seems way easier with just a button, instead of my usually R+A grabs. I never use that Z button. Just a weird placement.

 

[t!MmY]

Even though I played Melee and SSB for years, I got rid of Tap Jump altogether.
I can Tilt and Up Air just fine with Tap Jump on, it's just annoying to DI or SDI up and end up jumping. It also allows me to angle my shield up against Mach Tornado as fast as I want without jumping.

 

[D Who?]

I didn't get into the competitive scene until like a year ago. Thus being said, my controls are ****ed up
Tap jump off
L-Jump
R-Sheild
Z-Attack
X-Jump
Y-Grab.

Messed up lol

Melee must make you super good at utilting with tap jump on.

 

[Lord Viper]

Melee must make you super good at utilting with tap jump on.

☆ I played SSB64 and Melee ever since it came out, and I still suck when U-Tilting with tap jump on. >.< ★

[collapse="Off Topic"]☆ In Brawl I started playing with just Classy Controller, didn't change much except tap jump due to two Z buttons you can use grab if your left or right handed. I do spam grabs a lot with Kirby. =P ★

☆ Classic Controller Pro, I change L to grab, and ZL to shield with tap jump off, the ZL at the back is not very good if your use to shelding with the L button on Classy or GC controller. I'm not sure about other characters, but the button layout makes me play Kirby better on Classy Controller Pro. ★[/collapse]

☆ Trying to use Up-B as a projectile is not easy, but works best with stages with hills. Using Up-B as an edge game only works if you catch someone off guard. I stop the habit of Up-Bing a lot, but still use it in a match for an attack move from time to time. ★

 

[D Who?]

I agree with it. I think a problem I have is I panic under the edge if they grab and instinctively upB even if I still have more jumps

 

[t!MmY]

Melee must make you super good at utilting with tap jump on.

The game doesn't make you good, practice makes you good. You can get the same practice with Brawl. Just go to Training Mode and practice U-tilt from Shield Drop. A good tip is to just slightly angle the control stick up before pushing the attack button (consciously restrain yourself from hitting Up at full-throttle).