The Alabama Power Rankings: Image=protier

[Pika_Cam]

If someone knows how to hide brackets like M3T did here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=272979

If someone knows how to do that, we could post the brackets for the tournaments of the season at the beginning of this thread. Kola could just edit whenever new tournament brackets come in.

 

[Purple]

i can tell you pika_cam!

[xcollapse]][[/xcollapse]

without the 'x's'. Obviously the way you cut it out like that is via print screen and paint.

That was actually how we did it as well in the GA PR. We had one person edit each post with tournament results.

In order for a person to be eligible in a three month season PR, they would have to be in three tournaments (you can change this however you'd like).

After that it's a matter of seeing placing, and who beat who.

 

[Saki-]

Elev8, when the results are posted let me know and send me a pm of some sort. I'll keep the results.

@Roxy- we could use your example to root out "inactive" players from our next update. Thanks for the input.

 

[Purple]

no problem at all ^^

 

[I SEE YOU]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10279716#post10279716

results thread for Waba May monthly

 

[TheReflexWonder]

As it is, we should list the characters for each, as well.

I play Wario and Pokémon Trainer.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And are Billy and Will tied or not?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

And are Billy and Will tied or not?

According to the voting from the five people that were tallied, yes.

 

[I SEE YOU]

yeah, i don't know why they are no longer tied?

 

[Saki-]

I dunno, something about ties just bug me. I mean we had a tie last update too, and we just decided on one of the three, and gave the other two proper placings.

:l but if you want it to be a tie for this update then I'll fix it. But if we were doing ties, cheap, zero and I would have to have a 3 way tie.

I'll update OP with Characters, and location momentarily.

 

[I SEE YOU]

I dunno, something about ties just bug me. I mean we had a tie last update too, and we just decided on one of the three, and gave the other two proper placings.

:l but if you want it to be a tie for this update then I'll fix it. But if we were doing ties, cheap, zero and I would have to have a 3 way tie.

I'll update OP with Characters, and location momentarily.

My brother tallied up the 5 lists and Billy and Will were the only tie.

 

[I SEE YOU]

~ no peach for my characters Kola ~ just ICs and D3~ anyone else that i use is just a spur of the moment type of thing

 

[Saki-]

Alright Fixed:


So this is what I think has happened so far with the system conversation

Will it be a points system?

No, too much work and too many factors to make it efficient. It would clearly be more work then it needs to be.

But then the system would be the same as before!/whine

Yes the system will be similar but with a few updates.

There will be an attendance requirement: 3 in state tournaments to even be applicable.
Tournaments outside of central Alabama will contribute to the next update
Tournaments OOS will contribute to the next update

What will be the main factors to influence raises and drops in the PR?

Biggest Influence-> PR Battles: *$10 MM 3/5 **** just got real*
Consistency on who beats who
Who beats Who
Money Matches

There will be added bonuses depending on how large the tournament is. Small tournaments(anything under 16) will hardly contribute to updates at all.

I'll add this to the second post. If I missed anything or made an error let me know and I'll fix it.

 

[Pika_Cam]

No, too much work and too many factors to make it efficient. It would clearly be more work then it needs to be.

I'm still advocating for a point system. My problem with other point systems is that they focus more on placing than how many people you beat and the difficulty of those matches. I think we could create a system that accounts for that.

 

[stealth3654]

If we do a point system, I think the higher the person on the PR compared to the person that beat them the more points should be earned. The opposite can be done if they are lower on the PR compared to the person that beat them. This way, you would get more points if you beat someone higher up on the PR than you. If you're not on the PR and you beat someone on it, the higher up on the PR they are, the more points you would get.

Just a thought.

 

[Pika_Cam]

If we do a point system, I think the higher the person on the PR compared to the person that beat them the more points should be earned. The opposite can be done if they are lower on the PR compared to the person that beat them. This way, you would get more points if you beat someone higher up on the PR than you. If you're not on the PR and you beat someone on it, the higher up on the PR they are, the more points you would get.

Just a thought.

The only problem with this plan is that it neglects to fairly award points to someone who maintains their high position on the PR by beating good people. For example, if Cheap beat Kola, Cheap would get more points than Reflex would for beating Will_. Yet, Cheap is not yet better than Reflex.

I don't think we should dock people for being high up already. I think we should do something like x number of points for beating someone in top 3 or 5 or something like that.

 

[Purple]

The only problem with this plan is that it neglects to fairly award points to someone who maintains their high position on the PR by beating good people. For example, if Cheap beat Kola, Cheap would get more points than Reflex would for beating Will_. Yet, Cheap is not yet better than Reflex.

I don't think we should dock people for being high up already. I think we should do something like x number of points for beating someone in top 3 or 5 or something like that.

people in the tpo 10 already get points from the get go, while everyone fighting to get to their level start with zero for this season. that being said, you just need to give enough points to the leading people to make their spots far away, but manageable.

 

[BigLøu]

I'm not questioning the panel, but is it possible for people to tie on a pr....

 

[Purple]

I'm assuming you guys didn't include OoS?

if that was the case, you should've put billy above for the fact he's representing AL more (at least i think he is)

 

[Saki-]

I'm not questioning the panel, but is it possible for people to tie on a pr....

I brought this up too, but meh.

:l I guess

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

PR Battles? $10?

 

[kismet2]

Just saying but hasn't Billy played will at a Zero Gamer's tournament? I'm pretty sure he 2-1ed him, unless you guys aren't counting that or something. But if someone mentioned it in the last few pages, I didn't read them.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

I beat Will in tournament too, so did Kola, but I don't think something so long ago would be relevent now. I'm going to post up a thread for a tournament this June so we can get more relevent data.

I honestly have no idea why I'm below Cheap Peach. I can kinda understand Kola, I guess, but not Cheap Peach (no offense, Russ, just talking real).

2-pronged bat**** XD

 

[Purple]

wait

so more people have beaten will than have beaten billy? O_O

 

[I SEE YOU]

I beat Will in tournament too, so did Kola

I know Kola beat Will in friendlies, but when did either of you guys beat him in tournament. All the tourney results that i saw with will attending, he gets to grands and splits with george. Except for the January tournament when he lost to billy. Although the tournament was in January, that falls in the update period, so it would count.

 

[Pika_Cam]

I beat Will in tournament too, so did Kola, but I don't think something so long ago would be relevent now. I'm going to post up a thread for a tournament this June so we can get more relevent data.

I honestly have no idea why I'm below Cheap Peach. I can kinda understand Kola, I guess, but not Cheap Peach (no offense, Russ, just talking real).

2-pronged bat**** XD

Are you going by placing or by number of people you beat?

To be honest Zero, your placing has been inflated in the 2 tournaments we've both been at. At AUSOM, you beat 1 person but still got 9th. Cheap beat 4 people and got 7th. At That Ain't Falco, you got a bye at the beginning and then beat M3T. After that you lost the next two matches. You beat Cheap at TCS VII, so that could be a reason to move you higher I guess. I didn't see your placement at Kampfertable Kampfer Slider, and because there were no brackets, I find it hard to judge. I see you outplaced Cheap at Jungle Beatdown, but like KKS, it's hard to tell what happened without brackets.

I really think we need to focus more on who people beat than on what place they got. Honestly, places can get really messed up depending on how the brackets are set up.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

There is unavoidable subjectivity in the rankings. People will make their rankings based on different feelings about the placings, brackets, money matches, individual matchups, and all that stuff.

It is impossible to separate any of that from the end product. It ends up turning into "I think this person is better than that person," but so will any method we use to decide it.

The only thing up for debate is who should be allowed to make a list, because only people with a lot of exposure to the players as well as people who are (at least close to) unbiased and competent should be a part of this.

 

[Pika_Cam]

I wonder if there would be a way to mix point system with panel. Just a random thought here, we do a point system, do a panel, and then take the average between the two. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but I'm always just looking for the most accurate way to determine the rankings. I definitely wouldn't mind putting in more work for that.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I wonder if there would be a way to mix point system with panel. Just a random thought here, we do a point system, do a panel, and then take the average between the two. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but I'm always just looking for the most accurate way to determine the rankings. I definitely wouldn't mind putting in more work for that.

I am not opposed. We can use Ankoku's Character Rankings List's rules, in that case.

Easy as pie, objective results, cuts out unnecessary placings (9th and beyond) as well as tournaments with less than 13 people.

 

[Pika_Cam]

Can you provide a link to that?

 

[_Keno_]

I see you outplaced Cheap at Jungle Beatdown, but like KKS, it's hard to tell what happened without brackets.

I lost to Will_ and George, which isnt really anything new. lol

And I think everyone should list the amount of sets won and lost versus everyone before we do a PR update (only tourny or MM's above a certain amount, and only matches played since the previous PR list came out). It would be more helpful for discussion I think.
Though it may be difficult to keep track of if there are no brackets. People could just post who they beat and lost to in the tourny results threads, I suppose.

 

[Pika_Cam]

I lost to Will_ and George, which isnt really anything new. lol

And I think everyone should list the amount of sets won and lost versus everyone before we do a PR update (only tourny or MM's above a certain amount, and only matches played since the previous PR list came out). It would be more helpful for discussion I think.
Though it may be difficult to keep track of if there are no brackets. People could just post who they beat and lost to in the tourny results threads, I suppose.

Maybe a list could be compiled for each person like so:

Cheap:

Beat:
Joe 1/30/10
Aaron 1/30/10
Matt 2/25/10
Josh 3/6/10

Lost to:
Ben 1/30/10
Jared 1/30/10
and so on and so forth...

 

[_Keno_]

Maybe a list could be compiled for each person like so:

Cheap:

Beat:
Joe 1/30/10
Aaron 1/30/10
Matt 2/25/10
Josh 3/6/10

Lost to:
Ben 1/30/10
Jared 1/30/10
and so on and so forth...

Exactly. I think it would be a great reference for when panelists decide PR placement. This would probably be more useful than tournament placings.

I honestly have no idea why I'm below Cheap Peach. I can kinda understand Kola, I guess, but not Cheap Peach (no offense, Russ, just talking real)

Talking real, lucario is peach's worst matchup (tied w/ MK). You literally seem to be judging me only by the matches we play vs each other and nothing else. By that perspective, it is perfectly understandable, but IMO that is the wrong way to go about things.

Also, some college melee people want to play at your house sometime this week.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Maybe a list could be compiled for each person like so:

Cheap:

Beat:
Joe 1/30/10
Aaron 1/30/10
Matt 2/25/10
Josh 3/6/10

Lost to:
Ben 1/30/10
Jared 1/30/10
and so on and so forth...

We just need people who will be willing to get the brackets from each tournament.

Also--

If you want to contribute tournament results, please provide the following:
MAKE SURE IT WAS AT LEAST 13 PEOPLE IN THE TOURNAMENT
Number of entrants
Entry fee
Where it was (what state it was in, or something)
Top 8, with character main for each of the top 8
Link to tournament page or results page

The math behind the list is as follows:
Base values are
1 for top eight
4 for top four
7 for second
10 for first
Base values are then multiplied by number of entrants and entry fee, then divided by 160. This helps account for larger tournaments being more relevant than smaller ones. If two characters are listed, both gain half the points. On that note, PLEASE ONLY PROVIDE MAINS. I don't care if you randomly picked Captain Falcon for a random game in your first round if you spent the rest of the tournament as Meta Knight.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Exactly. I think it would be a great reference for when panelists decide PR placement. This would probably be more useful than tournament placings.



Talking real, lucario is peach's worst matchup (tied w/ MK). You literally seem to be judging me only by the matches we play vs each other and nothing else. By that perspective, it is perfectly understandable, but IMO that is the wrong way to go about things.

Also, some college melee people want to play at your house sometime this week.

I dunno, I thought that I've been placing better than you consistently, but who knows, maybe I've been riding brackets all this time. I never really paid attention. I still think that I am the better player in Brawl though, just like how I think you're the better player in Melee.

Also, wut? Were these college melee people once high school melee people? One of whom beasts too hard at Ragdoll Masters?

 

[Purple]

hmm, i wonder why we've never used that system :x

 

[Pika_Cam]

The only problem I have with that system Reflex is that it puts more focus on placement than on who and how many people you beat.

EDIT: You can't really judge how good someone is solely on the matches you have with them. Like Cheap said, it could just be a matchup problem. It can also be severe rock paper scissors shenanigans. Billy beats Will, Will beats George, George beats Billy type of thing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The only problem I have with that system Reflex is that it puts more focus on placement than on who and how many people you beat.

EDIT: You can't really judge how good someone is solely on the matches you have with them. Like Cheap said, it could just be a matchup problem. It can also be severe rock paper scissors shenanigans. Billy beats Will, Will beats George, George beats Billy type of thing.

And the other half (individual voting) makes up for it. Sometimes people get easy brackets, sometimes people get really difficult brackets, and the ratio can and does vary from person to person. Despite what some may think, a very important part of it is tournament results--People should be able to place consistently no matter who they face, especially since it's double-elimination rules.

That being said, individual voting should take that into consideration, negating the purpose of statistics, but if people fear for bias, it's not a bad idea.

 

[Purple]

Well, the problem with that logic is that this PR is supposed to show skill and consistency, not 'who beats who'.

If we get a PR done with Reflex's (ankoku's) system. Then the outcome will be.

"these are the top 10 most consistent players". It doesn't really matter if there's a triangle, in the end, what matters is who's placing the best during that particular season. It's not our problem as panelist to look at someone's matchup problems, it would be expected that they learn these matchups in order to maintain their placings in tournament.

Also Pika_cam, you said who and how many people you beat.

Generally speaking, the more you beat, the better your placing . Also, if you beat someone high placed, due to how seeding works, it's expected that you would get a high placing as well, unless you're..

what's the word..

inconsistent

 

[Pika_Cam]

The second part of my post was directed at the Cheap/Zero Gamer discussion if that wasn't clear. It seemed like Zero was saying Cheap wasn't better than him because of the matches they had versus each other. That's why I pointed out earlier that Cheap had tournament results to back him up.

If you guys want to do Ankoku's system, by all means. I understand your point about consistency, and I partially agree with it. However, we need to stop seeding brackets like we did at AUSOM to make up for the fact that some people get byes at like every tournament. So, Roxy, the number of people someone beats might not coincide with good placement. Like I pointed out with Zero as an example, he beat 1 person and got 9th while Cheap beat 4 and got 7th. Not hating Zero, it's not like you set the brackets.

And please, call me "Cam."