The 3 Sacred Treasures - Pit Matchup Discussion Thread

[CHOMPY]

Since the other Pit matchup discussion has been outdated, due to lack of inactivity, and the matchups were discussed during the 3ds era to the November patch. Therefore, I have decided to start things over from scratch.

Matchup Chart

(Thats all I can find for now. If anyone has Photoshop that can make a really cool Pit matchup chart, it would be awesome)!

Matchup Ratios

[70/30] [65/35] [60/40] [55/45] [50/50] [45/50] [40/60] [35/65] [30/70]

​

45/50

Slight disadvantage. However, you still have a chance to win, depending on what stage, player, and playstyle that player may have.
50/50

Very even matchup. The matchup can go either way, depending on the player.​

55/45

No character has a true solid advantage, but one has seemingly better/easier tools, or one character can take advantage from winning a rock/paper/scissors guessing game.​

60/40

One character has clearly better tools in the matchup. However, if you can outplay your opponent by zoning them out, mind games, using the best options, and knowing what the other character is about, you may win.​

65/35

One character has less limitations as opposed to the amount of limitations the other character can perform. Counterpicking should be considered, but it's not hopeless by any means, but rather simply requires one player to far outplay the other.​

70/30

Something about the character in the advantage completely shuts down the other character. Counterpicking is heavily recommended - or rely on them not knowing the matchup and you knowing incredibly well.​

Anything past 70-30 is considered a pretty much unwinnable matchup like Little Mac vs Diddy Kong.

How are we going to decide what matchups to discuss?

Well, we can do it where if theres a specific character you have trouble dealing with, whether your fighting someone online, or if you went to an offline tournament and you got knocked out by that character, we will discuss it. Each member that mains Pit will decide what character specifically has given them trouble, and we will talk about it from there.

If there is a matchup you would like to discuss, please reply below and I will put your name next to the character, so we will remember to talk about that character for next time.

How long should these discussions last?

We should talk about one character per week. Being that there are 52 characters in the game, we can get a full (52 weeks) year of talking about every single character.

Who will be part of the discussion?

Anyone that mains Pit and has went through the same experiences that player just went through. Invite some of the players from the other boards to talk about the matchup and see what they have to say.

Why are we doing this?

To help veterans as well as newer players to get familiar of how the matchups should go. Not only that, it gives you a better idea of how much potential Pit can do against specific characters, as well as knowing what the other characters are capable of.

Specifically, what do we talk about in these matchups?

Knowing when to approach, what moves to look out for, how to edgeguard, how to land, what moves are useful, kill percentage, which moves outprioritize which, etc.


Since we are in week 3 already, I will start things off by talking about 3 characters at once. By then, we should be all caught up. I will be the one who creates the post and link them under here.

Weeks 1-3


Olimar

Diddy Kong

Mega Man [60/40]

Spoiler

So, as you guys know, Pit is a punish character. Personally, how I play against Pit, is to zone him a bit with short hopping lemons, metal blades and the occasional sticky bomb. I never want to rush into Pit, because Pit is a punishing character..and I mean PUNISHING for Mega Man. If Pit grabs Mega Man at the start of the match, that's a free down throw > up smash for him.

I try not to rush into Pit, but if I see a punish during the start of the match, I'm going to grab him > down throw > Fair most likely. If a Mega Man likes to use down throw into Uair, Pit can easily just jump out of it. I also suggest not using Pit's shields until you see a side-smash from Mega Man. Using it against something like a saw blade is most likely asking Mega Man to punish with a grab. Also, for some reason a lot of Pits seem to have trouble grabbing me.. I don't know why, but they always seem to grab past me accidentally.

Pit's arrows get extinguished by lemons, BUT they do go over metal blades I believe.

The best advantages that Pit has against MegaMan is his punish game. Mega Man's smashes are extremely punishable, but watch out for up smashes, they have a bit of a vacuum if you fly too closely to him, but if you catch him doing it, feel free to forward smash him or down smash him. Also, do NOT use Pit's side B at high percentages unless you know for SURE that Mega Man's going to get hit. Doing this while MegaMan's blocking is unsafe and will uppercut you and take a stock off you at as early (I believe) as around 90% or higher.

Both MegaMan and Pit have pretty good aerial game, but depending on who strikes first + spacing will also decide who gets hit. Mega Man's Bair seems to have quite a bit of priority on Pit's attacks, but if Pit uses his fair first, Mega Man should get hit. Both MegaMan and Pit's fairs are really weird when used at the same time and sometimes it'll leave you asking yourself, I wonder why that didn't hit? Other times you'll get the hit against MegaMan. Also, this has happened to me quite a bit, but if a MegaMan's flown off stage by a f-smash, but isn't dead, try to hit him with an arrow, it could send him into the blast zone.

So let me sort this out a little.

Pit Strengths

• Well timed airs
• Well timed punishes
• Speed
• Foot stools
• Good "In Your Face" attacks
• Well timed shields can punish Mega Man's side smash and U air

Pit Weaknesses

• Trouble with getting zoned
• LEMONS LEMONS LEMONS
• Whiffed dash grabs/pivot grabs
• Side B can be punished with a shoryuken
• Mistimed shields can be punished by grabs

Overall match up ratio is about a 5:5 I'd say.

yo Mega Main here. Pit is one of my second mains (actually he's the one I play to avoid the Mega Man dittos) and there's a great Pit player in my region so I know a lot about this matchup.

Pit has real problem when getting edgeguarded or juggled by Mega Man. If we get a grab in we can easily follow that up and get a lot of % or even a kill. Bair as edgeguard kills super fast and pit mediocre air speed means we can get them.
A lot of pits like to recover with side B and we can punish that by either hitting Pit's head with a hard knuckle or by throwing a projectil to him, make him deflect it, then punish the lag with an aerial.

Pellets aren't really annoying for pit because he can get in between them even when hit by using his insanely good dash attack. Dash attack will pick up the metal blade and outprioritize pellets if done correctly and mega man has a hard time landing against Pit so its a truly good option. Actually Mega Man has a lot of trouble in this matchup on the neutral game, and kind of relies on his superior juggle / edgeguard game over Pit to take it.
Pit's side B is risky but it's super good as a counter to our dash grab approach and to our landing. If we do shield it tho we can punish it hard so don't use it a lot in Neutral game.
If you are afraid of MM up air down B is a good option. Reflected uair can really deal a lot of damage to Mega Man.
Mega Man has some troubles against Pit's Nair and 3x Jab because of them being super fast and having good range. Dsmash is also good there since it'll beat everything but shield.
Mega Man is heavy so Dash attack - up smash or Down throw - upsmash will work until mid range %. Dair out of shield isn't very good against Mega Man except for punishing crossup dtilt.
Leaf shield can stop up smash so be wary of that.

Edgeguarding Mega Man as Pit is risky but you can try it. If he gets hit with no jump Mega Man below average recovery probably won't be enough to come back. The thing is if you miss the edgeguard Mega Man can have his time to go with the Bair wall of pain so that's why I say it's risky.
While Mega Man is going for the edgeguard with bair, if you hit him with an arrow he will turn around and be limited to his low kill power Fair, so it's a chance.
Pit is better than dark pit in this matchup because of better arrows and Side B being a reliable kill move.

Mega Man will truly look for the grab in this matchup and try to juggle while playing a pellet / metal blade neutral game. Going into the air as pit isn't a good idea against Mega Man because he has superior aerials in Fair and Bair. Stay grounded, do a lot of dash attack and nair and Pit will work out in this matchup.

.

Week 4-6

Rosalina + Luma

Ness

King DeDeDe

Weeks 7-9

Lucina
R.O.B.
Greninja

 

[Wintropy]

Great idea. I've been waiting for a thread like this.

Rosaluma, Ness and Dedede would be my toughest matchups. I hope we can have some good conversations and figure out some good stuff with our angelic friend!

 

[CHOMPY]

Olimar

Specifically, the following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/bait your opponent
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• What moves to avoid
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall matchup ratio

Begin!

 

[CHOMPY]

Specifically, the following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/bait approach
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• What moves to avoid
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall matchup ratio

 

[ReRaze]

Great idea. I've been waiting for a thread like this.

Rosaluma, Ness and Dedede would be my toughest matchups. I hope we can have some good conversations and figure out some good stuff with our angelic friend!

I agree with king dedede, Pit already has a hard time killing but to add to that king dedede is the heaviest character ingame + you can't gimp him so it's a pretty hard matchup. Also some of his moves outrange you like jab and f-tilit, and he has plenty of kill options dash attack, down smash (comes out fast and has little if any lag), nair, uair, dtilit, usmash, fsmash (kills soooooo early but is slow and laggy), fair, etc and some good cancel combos (e.g Nair into multiple dtilt this is really annoying cuz it's difficult to shield grab and puts alot of shield pressure, if he does this just get out of there or time a counter move correctly) He can jab cancel too like a jab into dtilt. King dedede however is extremely easy to hit (cuz he's so fat) and easy to combo string (cuz he's heavy) you can rack up damage extremely easily if he's not careful example fthrow > dash attack > usmash. In this matchup just play very defensively and get in with some combo's or quick moves when you see an opening. Avoid as much damage as possible. The most reliable way to kill king dedede is Fsmash, as Meteor smash, down smash, u smash and upperdash arm all take too long and the rage will allow him to kill you too easily. I feel like this matchup is in king dededes favour but not impossible probably like 65/35.

Haven't had any particular problems with Rosalina..... what's so hard about this matchup?

Ness is a matchup i feel goes in pit's favour. Your probably playing too grab orientated which is ness's game. Just out range him with your moves and rack up damage while avoiding grabs. Get him offstage and when he's forced to recover you've pretty much won because all you have to do is push him away with the Guardian Orbitars then taunt him when you get back to the stage. If he notices you doing this and tries to adapt by e.g waiting, saving jumps, etc mix it up and spike him or somthing instead. This matchup i feel is 40/60 in pit's favour.

(My bad just realised I probably wasn't supposed to post the discussion here but oh well @ CHOMPY if you wan't me to move it just let me know I'll change my post into matchups for week 7-9 lol)

 

[Wintropy]

Nice to know I'm not the only Pit with Olimar issues!

Honestly, Olimar is frequently overlooked competitively because he's low-tier and weak, but I've seen high-level Olimar play and it's terrifying. Olimar is small and fragile, but he has a lot of Pikmin types to capitalise on, and a good Olimar player will make use of them. They'll know exactly which Pikmin will come out in which order, can switch between them effortlessly, will make best use of every Pikmin's particular strengths and can hold their own even without the aid of Pikmin.

I feel like, when playing a good Olimar, you need to understand how his Pikmin work just as much as he does. That can throw a lot of people - myself included - off kilter. It's tricky enough to keep track of how to best use Pit's tools without having to think about your opponent's tactics as well. I guess it's good practice, though, so it's worthwhile to study that regardless.

I'm honestly not too sure how to beat Olimar. While we have an advantage with range and speed, Olimar's versatility and tactical applications seem to trump anything I can do. Approaching him becomes difficult, and he can even use his Pikmin as a shield against arrows and Upperdash Arm. The startup and endlag of the Guardian Orbitars doesn't make it at all worthwhile to reflect his Pikmin, especially when he'll just summon more anyway, and his grab range far exceeds our own. It's that range, combined with his tactical superiority and his ability to rack up damage from afar, that makes Olimar so tricky to me.

 

[SirPulse]

same here, no idea how to beat olimar. usually i can do the rush down game and perhaps get a win but in the end i just cant beat him. as a dark pit main since release, i feel it is his worst MU, along with diddy and dedede

 

[Sora66]

I just finished playing about a 3 hour set against Parchessy, a really good rosalina player. A hard thing about fighting her is just that her moves have almost no end lag time and she can just keep juggling. Using pit's nair is really good against rosalina while she is offstage cuz she has no hitbox when she recovers, and on the stage. What I did was i did a retreating fair to bait her to come and do an attack and went for nair. It worked almost all the time. The biggest problem was that she was gimping me........ While I was off stage she used her dair and back air to keep me off the stage. The same as rosalina there is no hitbox to pits recovery so she can just keep doing whats shes doing. I also noticed through out these sets is that usmash is actually a very good option against rosalina players. When you have putting on the pressure and she is in the air, she normally goes for a dair or an air dodge, wait for that then you can usmash her. Sometimes luma gets in the way so it doesn't, but its still very very helpful. As you know air are rendered useless against rosalina. What I think I need to work on is just that when she is off stage, I need need to use that chance to take a stock off of her. Since pit has more jumps then Rosalina and about the same recover, you can attempt to go and stage spike her or just spike her in general. Also I was noticing that when rosalina uses her recover and she misses the ledge, she normally lands on the stage and you can go for the punish with about anthing. But when I went for the punish, Luma hits me and I miss my punish. It happens all the time, so I just waited for the luma attack and went for a grab. Grabbing rosalina is hard since luma is in the way and you cant pummel. So what I did was i went for a dthrow and waited for the air dodge and grabbed again. Then luma hit me. I really think that this MU is 65/35 in Rosalina's favor. So anyone have any tips or advice about facing her?

 

[Sora66]

I know its kinda hard, but can't you reflect olimar's fsmash with guardian obitars. I've had little success with it so maybe its not very viable option. Whats a good way to get the pikman off of you, like what attack would you use to take them off of you?

 

[Wintropy]

I know its kinda hard, but can't you reflect olimar's fsmash with guardian obitars. I've had little success with it so maybe its not very viable option. Whats a good way to get the pikman off of you, like what attack would you use to take them off of you?

You can, but the startup and endlag makes it scarcely viable.

I like to use n-air to get the little buggers off.

 

[Sora66]

Ahh ok that makes sense. But is the best way to take a stock of olimar is chasing him off stage? When he throws his pikmin his recovery is very good. I saw when dabuz did it against 6WX, when olimar went under the smashville to the otherside to reach the ledge. Any options to kill olimar?

 

[meleebrawler]

Keep in mind that Olimar can use an aerial out of Winged Pikmin.
Because of this some might prefer recovering high and batting attempts
to punish his landing.

Though chances are Olimar will just die outright since he is pretty light.

 

[CHOMPY]

Most of the time, all your going to see Olimar players do is use Nair right after their Up B to cover their landings. All you need to do is shield grab them, or use dsmash OoS. Keep in mind the Olimar players will try to land behind you if they happen to be right above you, so you just have to react quickly by taking a step away from Olimar and hit him with a turn around fsmash.

 

[Valand43]

Most of the time, all your going to see Olimar players do is use Nair right after their Up B to cover their landings. All you need to do is shield grab them, or use dsmash OoS. Keep in mind the Olimar players will try to land behind you if they happen to be right above you, so you just have to react quickly by taking a step away from Olimar and hit him with a turn around fsmash.

As an Olimar main, I have to disagree with the landing option. Normally if I'm going to land, I keep a yellow or purple with me and use the insane control and speed on winged pikmin to return to neutral.
I've fought quite a few battles against ChaoticRoy here who is also a Pit main and a good friend of mine, so I can assure you, as Olimar, I try to stay away from you unless I have the right Pikmin for the right situation(i.e. yellow which has a bigger hitbox making it a bit safer.)
The thing I fear most when fighting Pit is actually using my smash attacks, you guys can reflect Olimar's smash attacks with your heavenly contraptions. A lot of what you'll see when fighting against him will be aerials/grabs since we have to respect that one reflected red/purple will be the end for us.
In a sense, I'd say just rush down Olimar. Like I said, ChaoticRoy on here is very good with rushdown as Pit, but I find that gives me a lot of trouble and barely any room to breathe, can't maximize my Pikmin usage either that way. Pit has that passive advantage(at least for me) in that you have already struck a deep sense of caution into Olimar's strategy due to the reflect.

TL:DR Rush down Olimar, don't give him any room to think, watch out for an increased use of aerials, use guardian orbitars when you anticipate that smash attack. (the passive respect for Pit's orbitars will most likely already be there)
Hope that helped!

 

[Makorel]

I've found it easiest to fight Olimar who use pikmin throw to wall you out by letting his pikmin hit you so you can get an attack in. I usually dash attack or grab and then D-smash because it can hit pikmin on you, pikmin that have missed that land in front of you and keeps Olimar out if you're close to him. This is good because you remove Olimar's resources from the field and it gives you openings for when he goes to get more resources. Watch out for Purples and their hitboxes though.

 

[FullMoon]

Hello, angels that can't fly without divine assistance, we in the Greninja boards are discussing the Pit MU, so any input from you guys would be great: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...dark-pit-pikachu-meta-knight-2-9-2-16.369356/

Just don't cover yourself in pepper like Viridi said, we don't want people sneezing all day.

 

[Locuan]

Hey guys, we started the discussion period on the Pit match-up on the Lucina Match-Up Thread. It would be awesome if you guys could help us out!

 

[CHOMPY]

What would you guys say is the final verdict on the Olimar matchup?

45:55 Olimars favor?

 

[ChaoticRoy]

Well, since I have played against Val a quite lot I'm probably the Pit player with more experience in the MU that has shown up so I'll do my best to bring some knowledge. Anyway, this post contains a lot of my "research" in the MU, it's quite long and it's written on my phonw because my pc died, so cut me some slack if sometimes things get unreadable.

1. Character strengths and weaknesses: on the strengths part we have to mention his camp capabilities. Olimar is a char that relies on keeping you at bay. He also has a small hurtbox so he can be quite sneaky and having different types of Pikmin for almost any situation makes him versatile. He has our old recovery from Brawl (winged Pikmin are almost wing of icarus) which means he is both extremely easy and extremely hard to gimp.
On the weakness part, I have addressed this some times in the Pit Chatroom. Olimar is the equivalent of playing a card game with your hand revealed. He has Pikmins that are optimal for specific situations, but you can see them, their order and even the order they will appear. In other words, you will always know what is their most optimal option all the time. Also, they can't affort attacking off-stage while using winged Pikmin since they will enter helpless state use this to meteor them if you have the chance.

2. How to effectively approach/bait your opponent: This vary from player to player. Running shields are effective starting up the match to see how they react to you being close to them. However, after thar it's a guess game. If you feel you can get close enough cross-up nair is a good option. Fair can kill pikmins thrown at you safely but if you rely to much on it they can grab you with their exceptional grab range. It's really hard to bait Olimar because a good Olimar player will rarely commit but you can get the upper hand if you can avoid their baits. For once, all Pikmin throw during Pikmin Throw except for Purple have no knockback, they are just a bluff/illusion to keep you away. So.if you see an Olimar doing it don't shield and go straight to him with a dash attack you will be able to get him before the ending lag of their mive have ended most of the time.

3. Off-stage game: on the offensive you have to make them go low. They are in a real disadvantage when recovering that way because you can spike them more easily. They will try to recover high most of the time though and I have to mention that gimping a Pikminless Olimar is nearly impossible.
On the Defense, your best bet is upperdash arm. It will reflect his Pikmin throw and Fsmash plush give you a little extra height. Don't abuse this though, a preditable recovery is never a good idea.

4. Positional play: you want to keep them close and personal. Olimar players rely on Pikmin management and the more space you give to breath the more control they have. You have to keep the pressure going to make Pikmin management as hard as possible. Be careful with grabs though.

5. Punishes/punishing: I was kinda surprised that when talking about reflects you never mentioned Upperdash Arm. This move is Olimar's bane if you have the read. It can reflect Pikmin Throw, Fsmash and DSmash. Not only that but most of the time the hit of Upperdash will mix with the reflected Pikmin one making it deadly. You can punish landings with shield-grabbing and you can get through Pikmin Throw with your dash attack. On the things that can be punished from you....pretty much the usual, watch you landings and dont throw reckless Fsmash. Olimar's grab range is exceptional and Blue Pikmin makes it lethal.


If you want me to continue just tell it and ill do it on another post, right now I'm tired of writing all this feom my phone.

Also, when it comes to rate the MU I'll say it's 50:50 ~ 55:50 on Pit's favor.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm putting this at at least 60:40 in Olimar's favour. Possibly because my experience with Olimar is primarily involved with immensely skilled players, but most of those that I've fought have been hell.

 

[Yong Dekonk]

I haven't played any skilled Olimar players but I feel like approaching with ftilt might be a good option.

 

[SoulRed12]

Can we talk about the Sonic MU? I've had some trouble with him lately but I didn't know if I was supposed to just make a thread about it.

People say to take advantage of the fact that he has to approach to attack but he's so fast and hardly has to commit to anything because of it that he may as well just be considered to have ranged attacks. >_>

 

[Wintropy]

Can we talk about the Sonic MU? I've had some trouble with him lately but I didn't know if I was supposed to just make a thread about it.

People say to take advantage of the fact that he has to approach to attack but he's so fast and hardly has to commit to anything because of it that he may as well just be considered to have ranged attacks. >_>

It's not guaranteed to work, but I find that using jab / d-tilt to stop his approach and shorthop d-air when he's dashing into you works pretty well.

It's a tricky matchup indeed, he's ridiculously fast and doesn't need to read you or anything. He can just jump right in and do whatever he wants. But arrows will stop his spin and you can bait him with arrows until he gets close, then punish him with tilts and shorthop n-air.

Don't bother with your smashes, they really are too slow and you'll just get punished for your troubles. Hell, don't bother chasing him at all. He has to come to you to hit you, so coax him into moving and always stay a step ahead of him. He'll take advantage of any opportunity to spin or grab, so be wary of that and never stop moving unless it's to fire off an arrow or hit with a tilt. Pivots are your friend here: most of the time, Sonic is too fast to react to a surprise pivot f-tilt or pivot side-b, and he'll probably run right into them if he's not watching himself.

Neutral is a dangerous place for Pit to be. NEVER charge a smash or go for a grab in neutral, nine times out of ten it'll whiff and you'll be left open. Pivot if you have to, but never stand still for too long if you don't want to get grabbed in return.

Sonic's f-smash is surprisingly powerful and comes out quickly, so be careful of that. He'll most often use it to punish your landing or if you try getting too close, and you need to remember that it's one of his best kill moves. Its range is weaker than ours, but it's much faster and of comparable power, so don't try to challenge it with your own smash. Just stay out of his immediate vicinity and space with f-tilt, d-tilt, n-air and f-air.

F-air is particularly good if you can get Sonic with it, I've managed to get some good Wall of Pain chains on him with it, due to his habit of getting into the air and being punishable if he whiffs his f-air, which he'll probably try to do quite often. Try to keep ahead of him and get him to chase you, and when he's about to catch you, throw out a b-air or pivot side-b. Sonic is very brittle and will get KO'd at relatively low percents, so if you can get him up to about the 100% range, a good Upperdash Arm or f-throw at the ledge ought to kill him. He's quick and speedy, but he's not very strong and relies heavily on combos to rack up damage and KO - stay ahead of him physically and mentally and play up to our punish game and he'll be out for the count! It's a tough matchup, but it's bearable if we play it safe and play it smart!

 

[SoulRed12]

Lots of good advice

Thanks! I guess I have a lot of practicing to do to put all that into practice. it puts me in a weird position because I really would rather never see another Sonic online again, but I know it's the only way to get better with the matchup, haha.

 

[Douchuumen]

How well do you guys think Pit does against camping characters (Villager, Rosalina, Olimar, DHD, Mega Man, etc.)

 

[Wintropy]

How well do you guys think Pit does against camping characters (Villager, Rosalina, Olimar, DHD, Mega Man, etc.)

It depends. In theory, he's got a reflector, but it's not terribly reliable. I've had mixed luck with such characters, though again, it depends entirely on the specific character.

I think Rosalina and Olimar in particular are nightmarish matchups, while Villager and Duck Hunt are a bit more bearable.

 

[BaeBraham]

Can we talk about the Sonic MU? I've had some trouble with him lately but I didn't know if I was supposed to just make a thread about it.

People say to take advantage of the fact that he has to approach to attack but he's so fast and hardly has to commit to anything because of it that he may as well just be considered to have ranged attacks. >_>

Idk if this was mentioned yet, but did you see the Sonic-Pit MU between Nairo and 6WX? It was a great match and there is a lot to be learned about this MU just from watching the match. It's also a video embedded in one of the Pit Guides on here.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Pit players, Rosalina is currently analyzing Pit at the Rosalina Match-Up Analysis thread. If you have anything to contribute to the match-up, Pit will be analyzed until the end of 3/9.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

Okay so, I'm getting absolutely destroyed by Kirby in general. I don't know if this is considered a good or bad match up for Pit, but I'm having tremendous trouble with him.

First of all, my nuetral air approaches are completely futile due to spamming fair walls which out-prioritize Pit's nair even when it's in the middle of the animation, and short hop fairs from Kirby in general just seem to completely eliminate any tactical thought I put into my approaches. I just do not know how to deal with it...at first, I thought countering with pits short hop fair would prove to be effective, but kirbys so damn short, even when he's a few inches off the ground i can't seem to hit him with it. When I play conservative, I get rushed down and grappled. When I try to switch to aggressive, I just get shield grabbed.

Also when Kirby uses his fair or dair on my shield, even when I shield it perfectly, and go in for a well timed punish grab, he has the weird crouch animation after the attack is iniated, making it impossible for me to punish appropriately.

This MU is driving me nuts, and I'm not afraid to admit that it's making me salty. Help me out guys, please. Insight on the Mu would be well appreciated.

 

[Wintropy]

I've found that fullhop downward arrow shot can be useful since it'll hit even if he ducks, and Upperdash Arm kills relatively early considering his absurdly light stature. You can also stay just out of range of his aerials and counter with f-air or b-air, since he spends a lot of time in the air, and his up-b and down-b are readbait.

But otherwise, yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. He outprioritises us in the air and has those ridonk f-air combos, not to mention a powerful grab game and a build that lends itself particularly well to dodging our arrows. He also tends to play super-aggro, so our naturally defensive game is compromised. I do find that a lot or Kirbies rely on a similar pattern (aggressive f-air, n-air, d-air and grabs), so maybe we just need to get better at reading and punishing the little puffball?

 

[Strider_123]

These are my personal thoughts about pit's matchups-
Hardest matchup-
- He gives me such a hard time because hes so fast and hits so hard. most of his moves interrupt mine and he has the ability to counter. i find myself just trying to grab and throw him off the edge.
- hes hard in the right hands because if i spot dodge i take 20% damage from his down attack. Also his jump has hyper armor and i can't seem to find where his move starts and ends lag wise.
- super fast and when he has a lot of built rage he can KO me at semi low percents. his grabs can start up a combo

Tough matchup-
- may be weak but in my option has the best ability to combo someone. i was combo'd into oblivion by a guy named black on the gamefaqs 3ds board. seriously vs him if you don't believe me
- fast and is hard to counter.
gives me trouble to some extent:
- Neutral air can break through all my moves. even the upperarm dash. found out the forward air can break through.

 

[O1DsLeNdYwHiTe]

Captain Falcon's dash attack priority is what pesters me. He's one of the best rush-down characters on the roster, making it rather difficult to play defensively against him.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Call me a noob, but I think one of my most difficult match ups is Link and Toon Link.

I think I just need to perfect my spacing, and the mu should get quite easier.

 

[Jasudin]

Call me a noob, but I think one of my most difficult match ups is Link and Toon Link.

I think I just need to perfect my spacing, and the mu should get quite easier.

Learn to powershield and utilize walk shield sometimes instead of only dash shielding. There's not too much Link and TL can do if you are good at shielding. The player will definitely try to change their pattern but yeah. Some of the players are afraid to grab due to how punishable their grabs are and remember to spot dodge if you see a habit. Also, watch out for zair because it's hard to punish, sets up into things sometimes, and has huge range. When good Link/TL mains recover, they will try to utilize projectiles to shut off gimping paths or at least hamper them (Boomerang especially).

TL has bad landing options btw. Dair (but is bad for obvious reasons) has range though, so you don't want to challenge it.

 

[redblade]

Turns out that here in Colorado, we've got a good (unranked, though I get the feeling our PR's already out of date) Kirby main; after losing 1-2 to him in a Loser's Quarterfinals and playing him online (just now), here are some off-the-top-of-my-head notes. By all means debate anything you don't agree with.

I think down-air can be shield-grabbed (I just did it online, FWIW), though you'd be forgiven for thinking shield-grabbing Kirby's aerials is a losing game, given his very good frame data. Speaking of frame data, I don't recommend trying to break a Kirby combo. Just don't; the frame data is strong with this one. DI away. Also, don't try to escape him by going over him with your jumps alone (not a good idea in general, I guess, but it's a really bad idea here). His ground speed and low-startup moves makes him more than capable of punishing landings if you're not careful.

If you need to escape some pressure, my recommendation is to just go above Kirby on a platform and apply your shield judiciously. Kirby's only offensive options for someone above him on platforms as high as Battlefield's is up-B and uair, both of which are underwhelming on shield. Moreover, Kirby's a reversed Jigglypuff in the sense that points towards his air speed went to his ground speed, so you'll have time to think. (On that note, I went to the top Battlefield platform a lot in one of our matches and I never felt safer; he took me to Omega Great Cave Offensive in the next match, though, which took away that easy defensive option.)
Moreover on relieving pressure, don't be too afraid to get into an edgeguard situation (i.e., being edgeguarded) if you need to. Let me be clear: Kirby is no Jigglypuff in terms of aerial speed and influence. I think you can deal with him with spaced fairs as long as you're mindful of the scarier aerials like dair (which can spike) and I think bair. If he comes out and edgeguards you in air-to-air combat and you can move around his aerials, I don't think he'll catch you.

Thankfully, Inhale shenanigans going off/below the stage will not work on us. Be grateful we're not Captain Falcon mains. Hoo boy, I saw this guy pull this kind of thing in tournament on a Falcon main. It was the most hilariously evil thing I've ever seen.

Your sword range is your friend; pivot tilts and ftilt/dtilts can work wonders! (When don't they?) At proper spacing, the worst-case scenario is that you clank with Kirby, which is no big deal to us at ftilt/dtilt range (or in general, really); best case, you get in some damage, assert your zone, and stop some of Kirby's momentum. Fast attacks or not, Kirby still has to physically get through the sword zone to get going.

Sword zone or no zone, stay mobile to keep him thinking! Short hop nair, running back and forth, pivot-tilting, it doesn't matter, just don't stand still. Maybe this is just from my controls/playstyle meaning that I barely ever use down smash, but if your zone is set up properly, one of Kirby's main ground options for getting in should be rolling just behind you. And as expected, Kirby can act very quickly out of rolling behind if he times it right while you go for as much as a tilt or a jab, so unless you want to commit to a hard-ish read (down-smash has little lag, but we're talking Kirby punishes here if you screw up), you're better off shifting the zone back and forth. Alternatively, (and similar to my earlier point about playing off of the edge) work on your play with your back to the ledge as far as possible (so now you're playing on the edge). Directly at the edge, the roll-in is almost a non-factor, so given Kirby's in-your-face playstyle (assuming no projectile powers), your zone gets some more power here.

If you can get in some arrows from a distance and he tries to approach via short hop, that's exactly what you want; adjust your spacing as necessary and punish accordingly with properly-spaced dash attacks or tilts. Speaking of punishing, though, unless you get some really good reads in, you're probably not going to out-combo Kirby. In fact, he'll probably be the one to break your combo. Play patiently, chip away at him with your zone, and don't overcommit. If you're slowly chipping away at Kirby and Kirby can't get in, rest assured, you're winning.

Last but not least: Upperdash Arm. Just Upperdash Arm. Is Kirby trying to pursue you with aerials, whether it's neutral air-to-air combat or whether you're being edgeguarded? Upperdash Arm. Do you have him at kill percents, want to make him pay for being such a lightweight, and have a read or an opening for your super armor? Upperdash Arm. Remember: Kirby's move set has little in the way of range or projectiles (by default), meaning he has to physically commit to moves. Upperdash. Arm. (In all seriousness, don't spam the move in neutral, but use it to create or extend a punish as appropriate; Kirby's playstyle means you will get opportunities, and Kirby's low weight makes it that much more beneficial for us, even when used from the air.)

 

[waddicto]

I would actually think the Mac vs Pit matchup is worse for Little Mac than it is for Pit. All Pit needs to do is throw Mac off, force him to recover low, then pull out your orbitars while he's doing his up B, and have Mac fall helplessly to his doom. Not to mention the arrows can easily gimp Little Mac. And I actually think Sheik vs Pit is in Pit's favor or at least even. Sheik's best at gimping which is very hard to do against Pit, and if he recovers low, Pit limits Sheik's options to mostly bair, nair, and Vanish. Bouncing Fish is almost out of the question due to Superarmor on Pit's side B, providing a very tough time for Sheik. Onstage, needles are a bit bothersome for Pit as he has trouble approaching, but a SH arrow can bother Sheik as well.

 

[Dr. Snakes]

- A Little Mac's spacing has to be pretty much on-point the entire match to not get punished. If they space out their Ftilts or Dtilts, don't both trying to run in for a grab. You'll want to focus on getting them in the air, juggling them a bit, and then reading their landings and tossing them offstage to get an easy edgeguard. You can do with with a grab if the moment presents itself (they mis-space an attack), Dash Attack (really disjointed and pops them up for aerial follow ups), and SideB (if he likes constantly throwing out attacks to stay safe, SideB will go right through them). 70:30 in our favor.

- Yoshi has three bad problems that we can exploit: Killing, Approaching, Recovering. He has very few kill setups, so him getting a kill typically requires a read. Watch your opponent and see what they might be going for. At certain percents, he can Jab 1 > USmash. I believe this is typically around the 110% percentage area, but don't quote me on that.
Yoshi can't really approach well. He'd rather sit on the opposite side of the stage and toss eggs at you until either one hits, or you throw out a move that can be punished. Our arrows have longer reach, so we can force him to try to approach us. At that point, all of our aerials outrange his, so we can stuff out his approaches. If he tries Dash Attack in, shield, turn around, and punish him with either a grab if he's close enough, or a Dash Attack. This move will always cross you up.
As for his recovery, I typically see Yoshi's either go extremely high with an early double jump + eggs to keep away from most punishes, or use their jump under the stage, and recover with eggs to protect them from punishes. Most we can do for the first method is either shooting arrows at them, or catching their landing with an Uair or another suitable aerial. As for the second, if you can ever manage to footstool Yoshi in the middle of his Double Jump, that's usually a stock. We have 3 jumps and one of the best recoveries in the game, so this is a pretty viable option. Watch for his eggs though. If he's already close to the stage, shield eggs and punish the ending lag of the move. 60:40 in our favor.

- 3 Main approaches to look out for: Dash Attack, Dash Grab, or Aerial Attacks (typically Nair, sometimes Bair or even Uair). It's a bit of rock-paper-scissors here. Shieldgrab the Dash Attack, Spotdodge and punish the Dash Grab, and Shield and punish any mis-spaced Aerials.
If you ever get popped up in the air, I suggest jumping and spotdodging away from him. His Uairs are very good for juggling, and they build up a ton of damage fast. We have 3 jumps, so we can manage to maneuver around them. An occasional mixup that you can throw out their is using your DownB orbitars to avoid damage from his aerials and land safely.
The great thing about fighting Falcon is that you can string as many moves on him as he can on you. He's a tall fastfalling character that can't land as easy, so feel free to go crazy with the juggles. Beware of the Falcon Kick landing mixup. At higher percents, watch for when Falcon dashes past you and does a reverse SideB. They want you to think their going for a Dash Grab or Dash Attack, spotdodge, roll, or otherwise drop your shield, just in time to eat the move. If you manage to shield it, the move is extremely punishable, so otherwise you just have to keep an eye out for this tactic. 50:50

- She's a bit of an issue for me too. Based on advice that I've been given, there are gonna be times in this matchup where Sheik's moves will combo into each other and you won't be able to do anything about it. Just accept the damage and recover back to the stage. The trick will be knowing what options and follow ups she can do at certain percents (ex. Fthrow to Bouncing Fish at lower percents), and then reacting and reading how that specific Sheik plays. There are many different types of Sheik players since she can very her options so well. Try and figure out how your opponent plays, get into their heads, and outplay them.
Moves that will be useful are Dash Attack for it's disjointed hitbox that does decent damage, and SideB for those Sheiks that like to throw out many hitboxes, you can armor right through them. We might not get many hits in in this matchup as opposed to Sheik, but our attacks build up damage well, and Sheik's a very light character. That, combined with Rage and Sheik's killing issues means that we will likely be in situations where we can kill her reliably before the she can. What also helps is that one of Sheik's main ways of killing is gimping recoveries, which doesn't really work on us.
45:55 in Shiek's favor.

Edit: After thinking about it, one of her main way so of killing does work on us due to our amazing recovery and 3 jumps. However, on-stage, she still has more safer options than we do, and has to commit to most of them much less than we have to commit to ours. Therefore, I've change it form 40:60 to 45:55. We still have to work a bit more than Sheik in this matchup I believe.

- A lot of what I said with Sheik will apply to Sonic too, specifically knowing what the specific Sonic's habits are and reading them, since the character himself can play extremely safe. Our arrows clash with with his grounded spindash and stop him, and outright beat his aerial spindashes. Many Sonic will bait and punish, so you have to be patient. This matchup is likely to go to time if it's that kind of Sonic. If you start getting antsy, you will eat quite a few spindash combos, which all do atleast 20% per combo.
At kill percents, if he starts camping the edge, back off and start shooting arrows at him. Our Fthrow kills, but his Bthrow is also extremely strong. It depends if you're willing to try and mindgame Sonic and risk it, but the safer option is to use arrows. Maneuver around his Spring offstage as well. A spring can occasionally stagespike you, but you can afford to get around it with all your jumps. 40:60 in Sonic's favor.

- His best point is zoning. His lasers require a minimum of 4 seconds to recharge, and he can only have a single gyro out at any given time. I like to grab his Gyro and toss it up in the air, since it has a really slow fall speed. This will keep his DownB locked for a while.
Other than that, ROB is a big character with slow aerials, so we can combo him pretty easily. Nair has low landing lag and good coverage, but it takes a split second to come out. Arrows will be useful every now and again, but with his specials he can easily outcamp us, so focus on Rushdown. His fastest kill move is likely either his USmash, or Uthrow. His Dthrow Uair can also kill you, but I believe it can be DI'd out of at certain percents, which is why they choose Uthrow after a while. 60:40 in our favor.

- Get used to walking and Powershielding everything. When you get close enough to him, he will react with something, be it a defensive option (roll away, roll behind you, spotdodge, etc.) or an offensive option (Boomerang, Jab Combo, Ftilt, etc.). Take note of this habit, and be ready to punish it if he continues doing it. Be aware that essentially all of his sword attacks (minus Jab) can kill. That Master Sword ain't just for show.
His Grabs are laggy, so he likely won't utilize them often. Therefore, Shield will be a powerful option in this matchup. If he does start grabbing you, read and spotdodge it, and get in a heavy punish. This will likely scare him away from using it as much in the future, making Shield an even more powerful option. His Zair also has a good amount of range, and is nearly lagless on landing, so you'll have to respect that at times as well. Beating out his recovery often will take a bit of practice (I still get hit by his UpB sometimes). Due to the angle UpB his, Dair spiking is pretty much not an option while the move is out. We can however get underneath him and knock him away with Fair or Bair to the point that he can't recover. A safer option is definitely arrows. Shooting down his Double Jump will destroy his recovery if he's far enough away, and stuffing his UpB repeatedly a few times is also just as effective. 40:60 in our favor.

I swear, I'm typing this much, I may as well see if I make my own guide. Especially since the Pit forums seem kind of dead.

 

[Strider_123]

@ Dr. Snakes
Little mac is hard for me because he kills so early but your right about being able to gimp him, which im starting to do now. but occasionally ill run into a good little mac and the difference isn't 70:30.
This may be because i don't run into a lot of yoshi's so i need more experoece vs them.
Ive battled a couple of R.o.b.s and they didn't do him justice which is why i think people don't think hes good. My brother plays a mean ROB! if anyone wants you are free to vs him. So i guess i don't see it 60:40, i'd say its about even or pit has a Slight advantage.like 55:45

 

[ReRaze]

Agree with all of the above except captain falcon. I feel like that is 65:45 in pits favour. Falcon can't combo us cuz we are so light but we can combo him so easily. He's also extremely gimpable. Well spaced aerials flat out beat him. Falcon kick doesn't get through pit's uair, even arrows stop it so he is easy to juggle especially since pit's uair auto cancels. And once he's offstage he's pretty much screwed.

The hardest characters for me to fight are
Sheik (why does her aerials always beat out ours?) and she's so fast with near unpunishable moves, so many frame traps she can just throw out moves.
Sonic, sooo annoying and so damn hard to hit.
Dedede, Combo him all you want, hes impossible to gimp, almost impossible to kill (upperdash y u kill dedede at 160+ with rage), he beats you aerially and on land cuz he outranges you and all he needs is a few hits before your dead as pit is a light character.

 

[Strider_123]

Agree with all of the above except captain falcon. I feel like that is 65:45 in pits favour. Falcon can't combo us cuz we are so light but we can combo him so easily. He's also extremely gimpable. Well spaced aerials flat out beat him. Falcon kick doesn't get through pit's uair, even arrows stop it so he is easy to juggle especially since pit's uair auto cancels. And once he's offstage he's pretty much screwed.

The hardest characters for me to fight are
Sheik (why does her aerials always beat out ours?) and she's so fast with near unpunishable moves, so many frame traps she can just throw out moves.
Sonic, sooo annoying and so damn hard to hit.
Dedede, Combo him all you want, hes impossible to gimp, almost impossible to kill (upperdash y u kill dedede at 160+ with rage), he beats you aerially and on land cuz he outranges you and all he needs is a few hits before your dead as pit is a light character.

this especially the sheik and sonic.