The 3 Sacred Treasures - Pit Matchup Discussion Thread

[Fujiwara]

Idk, I've never really had much of a problem against Pichaku. Might not have played any particularly great ones though

A good Pikachu racks up to 50% Damage in one combo or just uThrow you with a following thunder.
Main problem here are the priorities and how long Pikachus attacks can stay on the field. He's fairly heavy for his height too so he won't be finished before 150-200% for the most times.

 

[Skydra]

A good Pikachu racks up to 50% Damage in one combo or just uThrow you with a following thunder.
Main problem here are the priorities and how long Pikachus attacks can stay on the field. He's fairly heavy for his height too so he won't be finished before 150-200% for the most times.

50% combos are rare and escapable, and Uthrow to Thunder only seems to true combo with no DI. You can follow the DI but I'm pretty sure it becomes airdodgeable. Not that Pikachu's combo potential isn't dangerous, but its not unbeatable.

But I do think its difficult to space against Pikachu's moves. Thunder Jolt and Quick Attack are difficult to deal with. Pit does have the advantage in grab range though, and has more KO throw potential. If you can get grabs you can win, otherwise Pikachu probably has the advantage. Getting juggled is probably the main problem, which might make the matchup in Pikachu's favor.

Edit: Also, Pit's aerials have an advantage over Pikachu's, but you'll rarely go air-to-air.

 

[Fujiwara]

50% combos are rare and escapable, and Uthrow to Thunder only seems to true combo with no DI. You can follow the DI but I'm pretty sure it becomes airdodgeable. Not that Pikachu's combo potential isn't dangerous, but its not unbeatable.

But I do think its difficult to space against Pikachu's moves. Thunder Jolt and Quick Attack are difficult to deal with. Pit does have the advantage in grab range though, and has more KO throw potential. If you can get grabs you can win, otherwise Pikachu probably has the advantage. Getting juggled is probably the main problem, which might make the matchup in Pikachu's favor.

Edit: Also, Pit's aerials have an advantage over Pikachu's, but you'll rarely go air-to-air.

Nope, it's not escapable, as far as I've tried. nAir or jumping won't do it for me. But you can escape the thunder. But I disagree with you with all my heart. I'm pretty confident in my abilities but when I get pummeled around in a combo without a chance to escape than it seems I'm finished.

Anyway, my personal MU:


vs 60:40
vs 60:40
vs 45:55
vs 55:45
vs 55:45 (due the arrows)
vs 65:35 (the key is to use often the arrows, you can outrun him many times)
vs 35:65
vs 55:45
vs 45:55
vs 50:50
vs 45:55
vs 45:55
vs 60:40
vs 30:70 Bucket can kill at very low percent
vs 45:55
vs 65:35
vs 40:60
vs 50:50
vs 60:40
vs 40:60
vs 50:50
vs 35:65
vs 40:60
vs 35:65
vs 40:60
vs 40:60
vs 50:50
vs ??
vs 50:50
vs ??
vs ??
vs ??
vs 30:70
vs ??
vs 50:50
vs 45:55
vs 40:60
vs 30:70
vs 50:50
vs 45:55 (despite his after-delays he is fairly strong due the priorities)
vs 35:65
vs 50:50
vs 55:45
vs ??
vs 30:70
vs ??
vs 30:70
vs 55:45
vs 55:45
vs 50:50
vs 50:50
vs 35:65
vs 50:50
vs 40:60

 

[Wintropy]

- Matchup chart -

I actually agree with most of these. I'd like to hear your rationale with regards to Dedede and Marth / Lucina, if I may?

 

[Fujiwara]

Dedede isn't that strong as most people think against a Pit. The key to success is outrun/space around him and using arrows the most times. If he trys to roll in, just roll out or use dSmash. Dededes spikes (forgot the name) can be reflected with the arrows the second he fires them out which can be fatal if timed correctly.

Marth/Lucina and even Roy cannot be beaten by simple tactics. High Priorities, quick dashes (Roy!), Counter, f/d-Smashes and the uSpecial can be quick enough to kill a Pit-Player regardless of skill or spacing. It's so hard to land in a safety zone after we have launched into the air that it hurts. Arrows are useless against them like against a good Sonic, except for edge-guarding.

So, what can we do? Pray for better Priorities with the next patch. Seriously.

 

[Fujiwara]

I've made some changes to my MU-list:

vs 40:60 (before: 45:55)
vs 40:60 (before: 50:50)

I got now some new data for myself. First of all, Jiggly can go just punch a full fledged fAir and hit you pretty spot on. I don't know if the hitbox is just weak or if the disjointed just ignored it. I find it ridiculous and I wish I had saved the replay just to show what I mean. It was even the last hit which knocked me out. Otherwise it's still a beatable MU.

After playing now against a really good Link I can see why this MU really sucks. Links projectiles and weapon-range is just simply longer and do more damage, excluding the dash attack, which can be also done from close range after a bomb has been thrown and you think you're far away enough in a safety zone. Link's hook/grab comes out fast and without notice and has surprisingly a very long range. In short: It sucks to play against him if you play a more expierenced player. You'll get soon so aware why Pits frames need to be more shortened so he can keep up the MU. Close-range bombing + dashing is more efficient as you think, because Link jumps faster as he runs. It's troublesome on a whole new level and I think I've to play the character more like a Ness. There's still a chance to win the MU but more in a defensive manner. I think 35:65 would be too harsh because there're not many Link-players out there who can pull a full potential bomb/boomerang/sword-combo out there because the most times the pit-player just needs to block everything. But I'm not so sure anymore. Like I said, Pit suffers here from his after-delays and his frames a lot. The orbitars could work so well if there's wouldn't be any start-up frames and the after-delay. I think 40:60 is for now fine until Sakurai will buff his meta a bit up.

 

[Skydra]

Nope, it's not escapable, as far as I've tried. nAir or jumping won't do it for me. But you can escape the thunder. But I disagree with you with all my heart. I'm pretty confident in my abilities but when I get pummeled around in a combo without a chance to escape than it seems I'm finished.

I mean, I don't disagree that Pikachu has a great combo game, but what can Pika do to take 50% from you every time? And if there is, aree you sure there is no DI to escape it?

 

[Fujiwara]

I mean, I don't disagree that Pikachu has a great combo game, but what can Pika do to take 50% from you every time? And if there is, aree you sure there is no DI to escape it?

50% per stock of course. If he gets the chance to. And no, DI-escape which bothers me the most. I really should start saving replays. If I get the next time the chance to play him I'll upload the video for you guys.

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

The best way I feel to handle speedy characters like , , and is to stay around the middle of the stage, and try to stay grounded (unless edgeguarding). It's best to take the Uthrow kill at 180% or whatever than risk the Fsmash/Upperdash kill at 110%. Besides, if you get the first KO so late, you have an easier time timing out and winning by stock lead.

Pre-1.10, I got into a match against a Sonic, and threw him for a loop by refusing to approach and staying centre stage, sticking with quick attacks like the 3-hit jab and dtilt. I got the KO with only about 30 seconds left on the clock. I was able to stick around until the end of the match, where I was declared winner by stocks.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

I agree with a lot of those MU's but some of them I can't understand or agree with. Main thing that I have in mind is, I don't think Sheik beats us that much in my opinion. I haven't really had enough trouble to consider it 30:70. May someone explain?

 

[Fujiwara]

I agree with a lot of those MU's but some of them I can't understand or agree with. Main thing that I have in mind is, I don't think Sheik beats us that much in my opinion. I haven't really had enough trouble to consider it 30:70. May someone explain?

Shiek beats us regarding the afterdelays, the speed and how fast the attacks come out. It's easy to get caught in the needles and right after that in a grab. f-Tilt can be annoying and easy to get us caught, like Marios up-tilt. Shiek has no problems racking the % up but need us to be killed per dSpecial right after a combo or when we did not expect it to happen. The match can be pretty hard and devastating if your Shiek can combo and powershielding very well. Believe it or not, Pit is just not good enough to fight against that character. Our biggest strength are the arrows which are somewhat useless here.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

Shiek beats us regarding the afterdelays, the speed and how fast the attacks come out. It's easy to get caught in the needles and right after that in a grab. f-Tilt can be annoying and easy to get us caught, like Marios up-tilt. Shiek has no problems racking the % up but need us to be killed per dSpecial right after a combo or when we did not expect it to happen. The match can be pretty hard and devastating if your Shiek can combo and powershielding very well. Believe it or not, Pit is just not good enough to fight against that character. Our biggest strength are the arrows which are somewhat useless here.

I don't have as much trouble. Well, of course I have trouble, it's Sheik! I usually just stay back and wait for her to try to combo and or approach then punish whenever possible. We can jump out of a lot of things. Remember that out of d throw at high percent there is little to no reason at all to air dodge when you can jump. Stay alert of needles because shielding them is often our best bet, because one of Sheik's main goals is to get the opponent in the air. Your reasons make a lot of sense and the MU is most definetly in Sheiks favor, I just feel certain things are over looked. I'm probably wrong, but it's just how I've always delt with her I guess

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

http://youtu.be/di4bA92n-F0
This match between nairo and zero pretty much says the matchup is at worst even. Nairo won 3 games before zero got one.

Also why the hell do you think that dr. Mario and Mario have advantage on us? They can be gimped so easy (especially the dr.) and we out range them in the neutral.

I can't say I agree with most of those MU's posted. You clearly need to do more research on pit/dark pit.

 

[Fujiwara]

http://youtu.be/di4bA92n-F0
This match between nairo and zero pretty much says the matchup is at worst even. Nairo won 3 games before zero got one.

To be fair, Nairo and even Zero didn't do well in that matches. I saw some flaws which could've turned the match for both side much, much earlier. My experiences with Shieks are far more tactical and grab-based which can really be a pain when the player has very good reactions and powershields almost every neutral and projectile hit.

Also why the hell do you think that dr. Mario and Mario have advantage on us? They can be gimped so easy (especially the dr.) and we out range them in the neutral.

Combos, Priorities/Frames and the cape works for them pretty good when they're skilled. I personally see the cape as a maniac version of the counter.

I can't say I agree with most of those MU's posted. You clearly need to do more research on pit/dark pit.

I don't listen to provocations patronizing postings because they are not good for the community. I'm sorry. We have different expierences and we will perhaps never know it for sure if I could beat your match-ups more easily or you mine. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

To be fair, Nairo and even Zero didn't do well in that matches. I saw some flaws which could've turned the match for both side much, much earlier. My experiences with Shieks are far more tactical and grab-based which can really be a pain when the player has very good reactions and powershields almost every neutral and projectile hit.



Combos, Priorities/Frames and the cape works for them pretty good when they're skilled. I personally see the cape as a maniac version of the counter.



I don't listen to provocations patronizing postings because they are not good for the community. I'm sorry. We have different expierences and we will perhaps never know it for sure if I could beat your match-ups more easily or you mine. Thanks for your understanding.

*takes deep breath* ok maybe I came off as an ***hole there, I apologize and agree that patronizing posts aren't productive.

But zero and nairo are LITERALY the best representatives of those characters... I think it's wrong to down play this point and just chalk it up to "well they prolly weren't playing good." Even on their worst days they could beat most of us without much thought.

About the Mario/doctor: are you really telling me the cape is that big in this matchup? I mean this still won't protect you from pits offstage game...

If we have different opinions, that's fine. That's what this thread is about I just want to make sure we at least have some reasoning behind it.

 

[Fujiwara]

But zero and nairo are LITERALY the best representatives of those characters... I think it's wrong to down play this point and just chalk it up to "well they prolly weren't playing good." Even on their worst days they could beat most of us without much thought.

I think that Nairo is indeed a very good Pit but he's only one of many good players out there in the world who are not in the spotlight like him. Have you ever seen Eddie starring Whoopi Goldberg? There's a particular scene where one player thinks he is one of the best because he's in the NBA and all that but after playing against some random street basketball-player he learns to understand that there're many people who can rival his skills. This is also true for many eSport-games.

I don't say that I'm as good as Nairo with Pit but I play a different playstyle with that character. They're are many ways to play Pit and as far as I can see in this video both players just played some friendlies and made many mistakes which could be easily punished or exploited. I personally don't think that this one video is a great study or even representative for Pit VS Shiek MUs because I know for sure that Zero and Nairo can be much, much better when they're more serious.

About the Mario/doctor: are you really telling me the cape is that big in this matchup? I mean this still won't protect you from pits offstage game...

It can for sure. It mirrors <everything> Pit can throw at Mario. And that's a very, very powerful ability which can work against you, like Counter.

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

I feel like we have a better matchup against the doctor versus regular Mario, if only because Doc's slower and easier to gimp/edgeguard against because of worse recovery.

Cape/Sheet's a pain regardless of which Mario though. Gotta play mindgames with that thing. (Like... charge a fsmash, facing the same direction as Mario, get caped and now face him, WHAM SMASH IN THE FACE?)

 

[Fujiwara]

I feel like we have a better matchup against the doctor versus regular Mario, if only because Doc's slower and easier to gimp/edgeguard against because of worse recovery.

Cape/Sheet's a pain regardless of which Mario though. Gotta play mindgames with that thing. (Like... charge a fsmash, facing the same direction as Mario, get caped and now face him, WHAM SMASH IN THE FACE?)

Yes, that would be my argumentation as well with Dr. Mario. And both can keep us distracted with the fireball/pill-projectiles too. The cape is the most powerful edge-guarding tool for both Marios. Just imagine rescuing yourself with the arms and been flipped around.. you fall and Mario's waiting over there for your recovery move. Additional minus points if you don't have any jumps left. You're pretty much open to be punished.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

can we not just bait the cape and punish?

 

[Fujiwara]

can we not just bait the cape and punish?

Sure. But the worst outcome would be the loss of one stock just because the Mario could read our movements. It really get's crappy when a Mario actually can mirror the Power of Flight horizontal-wise.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Sure. But the worst outcome would be the loss of one stock just because the Mario could read our movements. It really get's crappy when a Mario actually can mirror the Power of Flight horizontal-wise.

He can't mirror it if we recover low and hug the stage...

EDIT: also in zero's for glory YouTube series he states that dark pit/pit is a good matchup for diddy kong. If you want to see this in action check out the Japanese player Earth in http://youtu.be/x1BDWDxEtWw
A good example of how the pits have a fair matchup against almost all the cast.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

I can't agree with the Doc and Mario thing. Doc is one of my secondaries and they both have a pretty similar playstyle. so be mindful! Also, cape can be a problem, be safe with it a stall your way back with jumps

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

I can't agree with the Doc and Mario thing. Doc is one of my secondaries and they both have a pretty similar playstyle. so be mindful! Also, cape can be a problem, be safe with it a stall your way back with jumps

Again can't you just use your up B to hug the stage? Then the cape can't gimp us.

Anyways @ Red Pittoo ~ Rekt since you clearly have knowledge of both characters what would you say the matchup is?

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

Again can't you just use your up B to hug the stage? Then the cape can't gimp us.

Anyways @ Red Pittoo ~ Rekt since you clearly have knowledge of both characters what would you say the matchup is?

And if you hug the stage they get an easy edge guard opportunity with bair, nair, or dair for doc. We have the spacing advantage and grounded advantage but Mario's aerial mobility trumps ours speed wise. Be patient with Doc, because he also relies on punishes. Mario's up tilts can't string us for more than two or so depending on percent due to our multiple jumps. We have or jumps which gives us the power to chase Doc off stage while he is using his down b to recover. DON'T RECOVER BACK WITH SIDE B EVER AGAINST THESE TWO! Keep Mario's fludd in mind, the windbox will devastate if we mess up our recovery and leave us good as dead. Pills and fireballs are excellent gimping tools. Try to wait for Mario a lot of the time to mess up grounded for a punish. Doc's up smash covers every single getup option from the ledge except for getup attack. Make sure to be careful of it because it recently became even stronger. If you're gonna use arrows, be careful of the cape. It is possible to wait and stall. Shooting immediately is very predictable. Doc is a threat close-quarters and Mario is in the air. We out range both of them very well. Space with ftilt, fair, nair, and dtilt. If Mario missspaces a back air then we can punish with fair. Mixup your DI out of d throws. I feel like this MU is fairly even. A lot of it comes down to neutral. Doc I believe struggles a bit more because of lack of range and our better and faster punish game. Also, be careful of not getting stage spiked by their up b's.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

And if you hug the stage they get an easy edge guard opportunity with bair, nair, or dair for doc. We have the spacing advantage and grounded advantage but Mario's aerial mobility trumps ours speed wise. Be patient with Doc, because he also relies on punishes. Mario's up tilts can't string us for more than two or so depending on percent due to our multiple jumps. We have or jumps which gives us the power to chase Doc off stage while he is using his down b to recover. DON'T RECOVER BACK WITH SIDE B EVER AGAINST THESE TWO! Keep Mario's fludd in mind, the windbox will devastate if we mess up our recovery and leave us good as dead. Pills and fireballs are excellent gimping tools. Try to wait for Mario a lot of the time to mess up grounded for a punish. Doc's up smash covers every single getup option from the ledge except for getup attack. Make sure to be careful of it because it recently became even stronger. If you're gonna use arrows, be careful of the cape. It is possible to wait and stall. Shooting immediately is very predictable. Doc is a threat close-quarters and Mario is in the air. We out range both of them very well. Space with ftilt, fair, nair, and dtilt. If Mario missspaces a back air then we can punish with fair. Mixup your DI out of d throws. I feel like this MU is fairly even. A lot of it comes down to neutral. Doc I believe struggles a bit more because of lack of range and our better and faster punish game. Also, be careful of not getting stage spiked by their up b's.

Ya so Mario is 50:50 while dr Mario is 50:45 due to being slower and having less combo potential.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

Ya so Mario is 50:50 while dr Mario is 50:45 due to being slower and having less combo potential.

yes but 50:45 doesn't make proportional sense. I think you mean 55:45. If so, yea

 

[Wintropy]

I think Mario and Doc are more of a threat in customs. Both can zone us out with their fast projectile, gimp our recovery with the windbox cape, either release an especially powerful windbox with High-Pressure FLUDD (Mario; this has the added advantage of keeping default cape as a reflect option) or safely recover with Soaring Tornado (Doc; this is good, because his recovery is quite frankly terrible) and, most importantly, the explosive punch is an OOS kill move that KOs at mid-high percents.

I don't think it changes the matchup too much, just remember that it offers the duo a ton of new options. The explosive punch is especially dangerous for us, as a punish that hits shield can be countered with fatal results. It does make them much easier to kill off-stage, since it has almost no vertical recovery, but the move itself can be quite deadly if we aren't prepared for it.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

I think Mario and Doc are more of a threat in customs. Both can zone us out with their fast projectile, gimp our recovery with the windbox cape, either release an especially powerful windbox with High-Pressure FLUDD (Mario; this has the added advantage of keeping default cape as a reflect option) or safely recover with Soaring Tornado (Doc; this is good, because his recovery is quite frankly terrible) and, most importantly, the explosive punch is an OOS kill move that KOs at mid-high percents.

I don't think it changes the matchup too much, just remember that it offers the duo a ton of new options. The explosive punch is especially dangerous for us, as a punish that hits shield can be countered with fatal results. It does make them much easier to kill off-stage, since it has almost no vertical recovery, but the move itself can be quite deadly if we aren't prepared for it.

You sure that it doesn't change the MU much? I have little to no experience with customs really. Also, wasn't there something about nationals not using customs anymore? Because wouldn't a lot of locals follow suit with the rules? Just asking

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

Does either Pit really get much out of customs aside from Guiding Bow and maybe Striking Flight?

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

Does either Pit really get much out of customs aside from Guiding Bow and maybe Striking Flight?

I don't like striking flight. Nerfs the recovery too hard and the hitbox doesn't help as much as you think. Guiding bow is good. I personally like down 2. It is good for stage guards but only when it hits. Doesn't come out too fast and doesn't last long. Kills at a very resonable percent on stage and off stage it is an easy gimp once hit. Idk just something I like for fun

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

Guys, I need help. I just fought this Shulk and he 2-0'd me in winners and 2-1 in losers. He rushed me down so much and I couldn't seem to stop him. I tried my basic knowledge on the character and still got beat bad. I know I need to wait more because of his lag on moves. Anyone know anything on this MU?

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

I'm high while writing all this so its gunna be unorganized... But this is my scattered insight in the customs and the MU.

Does either Pit really get much out of customs aside from Guiding Bow and maybe Striking Flight?

Each of the different orbiters have their uses. Striking orbitars have a very low knock back angle for gimping off stage, while amplifying are great for heavy projectiles. Also since they are so fragil they break a lot, meaning they have less ending lag (you just have to not use em for 7 secs). Multi hit moves eat em up though. Finnaly the default ones have a wind box for gimping the likes of ness, Mac, Ike, etc... Also the windy flight is faster than the default.

Guys, I need help. I just fought this Shulk and he 2-0'd me in winners and 2-1 in losers. He rushed me down so much and I couldn't seem to stop him. I tried my basic knowledge on the character and still got beat bad. I know I need to wait more because of his lag on moves. Anyone know anything on this MU?

This matchup to me feels 50:50. You have to respect shulks space and poke carefully. Shulk is vulnerable to all of our normal combos so once you get in, stay in, you have better OOS options. The key to fighting any swordsman is not to give him his ideal range, if you stay in close you take away his range advantage. Be sure to use your grabs to answer his counter.

Combos to use:
Dthrow~>up smash~> up air
Low to mid %
Fthrow~>dash attack~>up smash
Low %
OOS full hop Dair~>Dair or Uair
Low to mid %
Shorthop Nair combos itself
Low to mid %

Remember almost all swordsman have bad landing options, so you want to take advantage of this. Use your Dthrow follow up combos, stay close and use your Ftilt to poke. Your grabs play a big part in this as they lead to your edgeguarding game. Your orbitars can push back his back slash and his Uspecial leading to easy gimps if timed correctly. your Sspecial is great for catching landings. Your arrows should be punishing him everytime he uses a mondo art.

You should be able to shield grab his shuffles well and that's a lot of what he relies on.

I'm blazed out of my mind

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

I'm high while writing all this so its gunna be unorganized...

I'm blazed out of my mind

Isn't that not too smart too post, well you are hi- whatever. Thanks for the slight help

 

[Thinktron]

Can the matchups from the more discussion be added here, i know there wasn't many they are inaccurate in my opinion, so it is best to just add them here
Matchup Ratio: 40:60 Luigis favorRob wasnt finished but it pretty much agreed and ended as 60:40 Pits favor (same on R.O.B matchup's as well)

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

Try to use Shulk's Monado Arts against him if you can; grab and pummel if he's in Buster mode, for example. However, if you're at high damage and he goes into Smash mode, stop whatever attacking you are doing and RUN until it wears off, unless Shulk's own damage is high and you're confident in your ability to deliver a fatal attack. Remember, unless he's in Speed mode, Pit can outrun Shulk, use it to your advantage.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Ok It's the next day and I'm sober. What's everyone's thoughts on the shulk MU? I'd have to say that one is 50:50. Or maybe 55:45 shulk's favor due to his superior range.

I think if we edge guard well though it evens out nicely.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

Try to use Shulk's Monado Arts against him if you can; grab and pummel if he's in Buster mode, for example. However, if you're at high damage and he goes into Smash mode, stop whatever attacking you are doing and RUN until it wears off, unless Shulk's own damage is high and you're confident in your ability to deliver a fatal attack. Remember, unless he's in Speed mode, Pit can outrun Shulk, use it to your advantage.

Yea when he entered speed mode I couldn't figure out how to fight him, but thank you for the help

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

Yea when he entered speed mode I couldn't figure out how to fight him, but thank you for the help

This strategy works against speedsters (including Speed Shulk) decently well:

Stay near the middle of the stage, stay grounded, and stick with fast attacks like the 3-hit jab and dtilt. Don't even think about using smashes or other laggy attacks. Make him come to you. His damage output per individual attack is lessened, so shield is safer. Do this until Speed wears off.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

Yes stay on the ground and do your best to keep shulk in the air, his lack of landing options give you free grabs and jabs. Don't use pit's infinant jab, they DI out and punish every time. Hold the jab button after the second jab and you do the 3 hit automatically. Pits dash attack is much faster than shulks so use that to punish landings as well.

Anything he was doing in particular @ Red Pittoo ~ Rekt that got you?

 

[Wintropy]

You sure that it doesn't change the MU much? I have little to no experience with customs really. Also, wasn't there something about nationals not using customs anymore? Because wouldn't a lot of locals follow suit with the rules? Just asking

Well I think both Marios have more options with customs. It definitely changes the matchup with Doc much more significantly, in that it opens up a huuuuge amoooount of tech for him. Mario can definitely exploit customs too, but I don't think it's as radical a change as Doc. I'd go so far as to say customs pushes the Mario matchup in his favour, maybe Doc, too. If nothing else, it makes it much easier for both Marios to punish us with a KO, in addition to the fact that it makes Doc a defensive maniac.

Howsoever the custom debate turns out, it's good to examine what customs can do. It's a different context that's worth scrutinous examination for that very reason.