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The 2GGC: Civil War Discussion Thread

|RK|

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I love all this talk about RNG or whatever, and two things stand out:

1.) Dabuz never dropped a set/dropped out of winners.

2.) Emblem Lord and Pierce are right - this game is about pushing your advantage when you get the opportunity. It's why the Top 8 was so skewed towards heavy hitting or advantage-heavy characters.

It's also why when Nairo uncharacteristically didn't push against Fatality, he lost. It's also apparently becoming the "New Rosa" meta. Look at Dabuz and Kirihara - they were relentless in advantage. Game 4 of GF was basically hyper aggro Rosa. Dabuz capitalized on almost every opportunity he had.

It's not just winning at neutral. Smash 4 is about what you make of your neutral wins.
RNG is a very dumb statement, IMO. So few people got beaten because rage it's not worth mentioning. As for Mr. R... I like the guy, but it disproportionately happens to him for a reason. One of those reasons is Sheik.

At any rate, I agree with the other point - pressing the advantage is very important, it seems. And you'll also see the more aggressive between any character pair doing the best. You can't hang back - that's when you get eaten by rage. But VoiD & Mr. R, Salem & CaptainZack... this really isn't Brawl. I love it.
 

Minordeth

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Mr. R, as @FeelMeUp has analyzed, is the worst of the top Sheiks at closing stocks. So, by default, he is going to be the most affected by rage.

I know he joked about switching mains, but until he optimizes his kill set ups, it probably wouldn't hurt him to have a heavy hitter with a strong kill set up or "RNG" power.
 

Laken64

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He more or less admits to choking and thanks Megaman for all the good times.

Seems like Kameme is feeling pretty down bout this, hope this doesn't lead to him dropping Megaman.
Tbh I kinda hope he focuses more on sheik, Mega Man has been figured out and he hasn't made top 8 since evo, though MM would be a nice counterpick vs diddy. Sheik is the better path for him ultimately imo.
 

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What is with almost every top player getting depressed about this tourney?
 

Ziodyne 21

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War never brings happiness. War brings chaos, blood, death, and depression.

Which is what we saw a lot of here.

Well all those top players that were eliminated before the top 8 or even much earlier have two choices

Continue to be upset/salty about the results of Civil War..

Or they can do what they have always been doing to keep their status as top level players. ADAPT. Look carefully on how or why they came up short of thier expectations and change thier playstyle and habits to deal with these new rising players who have proven to be threats

Dabuz has beem doing just that with his Rosalina play and guess what? he won the entire thing.
 
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Ziodyne 21

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All of them got upset super hard except Dabuz and Larry.

Well what about Captian Zack? Getting 4th at the most stacked tournament ever is nothing to be ashamed of that's for sure. From what I heard he was still dancing to the very end.
 
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Ziodyne 21

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I was thinking more on the top 10. Zack did very good.
Well according to Zack's twitter he's upset for a very different reason. Apparently he lost his wallet!! :( Sure hope he finds it.
 
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TDK

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Speaking of Zack, this happened:

https://twitter.com/PinkFreshhh/status/846163927796871168

This is just straight-up not okay. I don't care how much you hate Bayonetta. I don't care how much you hate Zack. Cussing out someone you barely know outside of Smash is just plain rude, no way around it.

the venue shouldn't become a second twitch chat. If you can't handle Bayonetta to the point of needing to verbally assault her players, do not show up to events until you've matured.
 

Ziodyne 21

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Speaking of Zack, this happened:

https://twitter.com/PinkFreshhh/status/846163927796871168

This is just straight-up not okay. I don't care how much you hate Bayonetta. I don't care how much you hate Zack. Cussing out someone you barely know outside of Smash is just plain rude, no way around it.

the venue shouldn't become a second twitch chat. If you can't handle Bayonetta to the point of needing to verbally assault her players, do not show up to events until you've matured.
Seriously does none of these..OK I am guessing a crowd of mostly Legal Adults have any shame?

Of course you going to act a little silly and even a bit cocky when you know you got mad skill at something at that age. Let him have his fun .

Heck I think Zack was showing more maturity than the jackass audience members cussing him, still showing respect to the players he both won and lost to after the matches. I think its pretry clear everyone he goes against knows it's all in good fun.
 
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TTTTTsd

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To have this happen and lose his wallet? Kid's ****in 15, what the hell? That's really awful and in the case of the latter, unfortunate.

Plain awful.
 
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Ziodyne 21

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Yea.. just check Zack's twitter page , where he recently retweeted the comments of just one the s***heels that go after him.

I wont say any names. But posting that you want to punch a 15 year old in the face
I bet they are really proud of that tweet..

At least Zack seems to have a sense of humor about it all.
 
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jet56

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To start, people need to learn to be the age they are and act like it. Getting triggered by a 15 year old and doing vicious things to him just because he acts obnoxious sometimes is NOT OK.

That being said, it sad that it doesn't surprise me zack is being attacked like this. He DOES provoke people, even if it isn't his intention, with his behavior. Even if the dancing isn't meant to mock or belittle people, if he really wants to improve his image, he should probably dial back on it. Sorry, that sounds harsh, but you either ignore all the haters and keep up with what you are doing (and risk having some nut steal your stuff or harassing you), or you lay low and don't trigger people. It sucks, but there are consequences for the decisions you make, 15 year old or not.
 

MarioManTAW

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All Singles upsets (PGR player defeated by unranked or lower ranked player):

Pools
Xzax (unranked) beats ZeRo (1st)
DJ Fliphop (unranked) beats Mr. E (18th)
Aarvark (unranked) beats False (41st)
MVD (47th) beats WaDi (21st) - oddly enough, MVD was 21st on the first PGR
Snoop (unranked) beats False (41st)
FOW (unranked) beats Larry Lurr (5th)
Sonido (unranked) beats Zinoto (16th)
Meteor (unranked) beats MkLeo (8th)
Felix (unranked) beats 6WX (30th)
Shaky (unranked) beats saj (40th)
TonySherbert (unranked) beats Rich Brown (23rd)
Lycan (unranked) beats Samsora (29th)
Lycan (unranked) beats Dath (32nd)
Konga (unranked) beats Ned (50th)
Zion (unranked) beats Wrath (43rd)
Elegant (unranked) beats Pugwest (39th)
Kome (unranked) beats Ryo (46th)
Kome (unranked) beats Tweek (17th)
Remzi (unranked) beats Tyrant (34th)
Skorpio (unranked) beats Tyrant (34th)
Nicko (unranked) beats ANTi (9th)
Tsu (unranked) beats falln (33rd) - refer back to original definition of upset

Top 96
CaptainZack (20th) beats Kameme (11th)
Locus (45th) beats Ally (2nd)
Kirihara (48th) beats ESAM (27th)
Shuton (unranked) beats Salem (13th)
Mr. E (18th) beats Kameme (11th)
Mr. ConCon (unranked) beats ScAtt (31st)
Luhtie (unranked) beats ZeRo (1st)
HIKARU (unranked) beats VoiD (6th)
SS (unranked) beats Pink Fresh (24th)
DSS (unranked) beats Darkshad (44th)
Shaky (unranked) beats Ryo (46th)
AC (unranked) beats MkLeo (8th)
AC (unranked) beats Dath (32nd)
Trela (42nd) beats Rich Brown (23rd)
Trela (42nd) beats Day (38th)
ANTi (9th) beats VoiD (6th)

Top 32
Kirihara (48th) beats Locus (45th)
Fatality (28th) beats komorikiri (12th)
ESAM (27th) beats Ally (2nd)
Zinoto (16th) beats Salem (13th)
Samsora (29th) beats ANTi (9th)
9B (unranked) beats Ranai (14th)
HIKARU (unranked) beats ESAM (27th)
Tsu (unranked) beats Zinoto (16th)
Shuton (unranked) beats Trela (42nd)
Locus (45th) beats Samsora (29th)
falln (33rd) beats Earth (25th)
CaptainZack (20th) beats Mr. R (10th)
T (unranked) beats Abadango (7th)
Fatality (28th) beats Nairo (3rd)
Kirihara (48th) beats Larry Lurr (5th)
HIKARU (unranked) beats Mr. R (10th)
Locus (45th) beats Nairo (3rd)
Marss (15th) beats Abadango (7th)

Top 8
T (unranked) beats Fatality (28th)
CaptainZack (20th) beats Marss (15th)
Fatality (28th) beats CaptainZack (20th)

Interesting to note: no top 10 PGR member was defeated by a higher-ranked member. Only one lost to another top 10 PGR player (VoiD to ANTi). Thus, every top 10 PGR player was upset twice, with the exception of Dabuz, who did not drop a set.
 

NotLiquid

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So if we're gonna talk about the semantic details of this event, even though Team ZeRo won the Crew Battle I kinda feel like Team Ally won the war. Ally got much further than ZeRo in Singles, Team Ally dominated the Top 8 of singles and Doubles was a split between ZeRo/Ally. Everyone expected the crew battle to be a total wipeout for Team Ally once the composition was announced but while they lost I don't think anyone expected it to be this close. For the most of the crews they were in a dominant lead, only undone by Kameme's unfortunate missteps at the very end.

This was a tournament where the underdogs got to shine for a large majority of it, and Team Ally's overall dominance reflects that.

God willing we'll all meet again in Civil War 2: The Quest For More Money.
 
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blackghost

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To start, people need to learn to be the age they are and act like it. Getting triggered by a 15 year old and doing vicious things to him just because he acts obnoxious sometimes is NOT OK.

That being said, it sad that it doesn't surprise me zack is being attacked like this. He DOES provoke people, even if it isn't his intention, with his behavior. Even if the dancing isn't meant to mock or belittle people, if he really wants to improve his image, he should probably dial back on it. Sorry, that sounds harsh, but you either ignore all the haters and keep up with what you are doing (and risk having some nut steal your stuff or harassing you), or you lay low and don't trigger people. It sucks, but there are consequences for the decisions you make, 15 year old or not.
Not its not ok because we see this community pIay favorites with who is allowed to be over the top and and eccentric and who isn't. Hikaru and fatality are cheered for pop offs and showboating when they don't have the track record in majors Zach does. Otherwise players aren't cursed and insulted by twitch chat and venues on this scale.
Players like anti couldn't handle the crap Zach goes through. How is his image tarnished because ehe knows he is playing a GAME and has fun with it. People triggered by what a 15 year old is doing are children. The only thing that matters is whether he shows respect to his opponents (find me a time where he hasn't) and respects the outcomes of matches without crying on Twitter later (anti, mr. R, ect)
 
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Nidtendofreak

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Not its not ok because we see this community pIay favorites with who is allowed to be over the top and and eccentric and who isn't. Hikaru and fatality are cheered for pop offs and showboating when they don't have the track record in majors Zach does. Otherwise players aren't cursed and insulted by twitch chat and venues on this scale.
Players like anti couldn't handle the crap Zach goes through. How is his image tarnished because ehe knows he is playing a GAME and has fun with it. People triggered by what a 15 year old is doing are children. The only thing that matters is whether he shows respect to his opponents (find me a time where he hasn't) and respects the outcomes of matches without crying on Twitter later (anti, mr. R, ect)
Okay or not does not change the fact his actions are making it worse. You will never, ever change the actions of a large group of people. You can't even really police it, how on earth are you going to pick through who was and wasn't going too far in the middle of a large crowd losing their mind over a match outside of somebody jumping on stage? He has the ability to tone back a few things which in turn might save him some headaches. (Such as say, his wallet getting stolen).

That's the situation he's in. The mature thing to do would be to dial it down before a nut goes farther with things, even if it shouldn't be on him to do that. Otherwise, if he's going to egg on the people who don't like his character he's gambling with the consequences.
 

OverTime

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Okay or not does not change the fact his actions are making it worse. You will never, ever change the actions of a large group of people. You can't even really police it, how on earth are you going to pick through who was and wasn't going too far in the middle of a large crowd losing their mind over a match outside of somebody jumping on stage? He has the ability to tone back a few things which in turn might save him some headaches. (Such as say, his wallet getting stolen).

That's the situation he's in. The mature thing to do would be to dial it down before a nut goes farther with things, even if it shouldn't be on him to do that. Otherwise, if he's going to egg on the people who don't like his character he's gambling with the consequences.
You're actually perpetuating mob mentality against a 15 year old.

His actions are fine. He pops off. We all pop off. I don't care if he dances, screams, whips out a guitar and plays silent night. It's a pop off.

He has at no point shown that he's not a good kid. Ego, or confidence (which is probably the best word for it) is in no way a bad thing. The opponents themselves don't seem too bothered by the taunting, it's the people who don't matter that are.

We literally have grown man children threatening a kid, and being happy that he lost his wallet, and you find fault in the kid as opposed to the masses?

Sounds like a Texas Rangers fan.

You're being asinine.
 

Nidtendofreak

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I'm not "perpetuating a mob" nor did I blame Zack beyond "he's gambling given the current situation". Its unfortunate that people act poorly in that situation, but that's reality. You cannot police it. You will fail. You will miss many people if you try to go individual by individual, and you'll hit innocent bystanders if you do "everyone in this section is kicked out because some people were going too far". Both attempts to control the crowd in such a manner is also gambling on making it worse for Zack.

If I was in that situation, I'd change my on stage performance because I'm mature enough to recognize reality. My gameplay or character selection? No. But it would be time to not hit the taunt button or start dancing around. You meanwhile are putting words into my mouth, making irrelevant comparisons to a baseball team's fanbase, and just acting on raw emotion with no thinking behind it.
 

jet56

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There is fault in provoking the situation. Lets be straight here. Zack is confident in himself and he doesn't let the crowd keep him down or hinder his personality. I respect that a lot. But its also naive, which is understandable for a 15 year old. As wrong as it is he's being attacked like this, the LAST thing you want to do is start escalating the situation more. The way he responded to afrosmash was, put bluntly, handled poorly by Zack. Alienating people that LIKE because they find one aspect of your personality faulty is not a good way of handling the situation. Does it suck that people attack him like this? Yeah. Does he deserve it? Hell no. But taking preventive measures and being more considerate of the people around him would be a great way to help kill the flames of hate against him.
 
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blackghost

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There is fault in provoking the situation. Lets be straight here. Zack is confident in himself and he doesn't let the crowd keep him down or hinder his personality. I respect that a lot. But its also naive, which is understandable for a 15 year old. As wrong as it is he's being attacked like this, the LAST thing you want to do is start escalating the situation more. The way he responded to afrosmash was, put bluntly, handled poorly by Zack. Alienating people that LIKE because they find one aspect of your personality faulty is not a good way of handling the situation. Does it suck that people attack him like this? Yeah. Does he deserve it? Hell no. But taking preventive measures and being more considerate of the people around him would be a great way to help kill the flames of hate against him.
"Being more considerate if the people around him"
When has he ever not been? Has he gotten up without shaking a players hand? No. Who has? Komo. Has he ever belittled another players success or insulted someones placement? No. Who has? Anti. Mr. R. Among others. If you are going to hate a player hate them for violating actual rules of etiquette and sportmanship. His peers arent you and me. His peers are other elite players. His actual peers have never said anything about him not being respectful. People like to talk about snowflakes these days, snowflakes are the people easily affected by these antics.
 
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jet56

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"Being more considerate if the people around him"
When has he ever not been? Has he gotten up without shaking a players hand? No. Who has? Komo. Has he ever belittled another players success or insulted someones placement? No. Who has? Anti. Mr. R. Among others. His peers arent you and me. His peers are other elite players. His actual peers have never said anything about him not being respectful. People like to talk about snowflakes these days snowflakes are the people easily affected by these antics.
You are right. I never once said I agree with or like the antics of other top players. But for some reason they dont seem to draw the kind of hate that Zack is getting. And its because they know when to dial it back. Zack hasn't learned this yet. He's shoving back, and its not turning out well for him. He keeps fanning the flames he's gonna get burned, and I'm honestly worried for him at this point.
 
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Ziodyne 21

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"Being more considerate if the people around him"
When has he ever not been? Has he gotten up without shaking a players hand? No. Who has? Komo. Has he ever belittled another players success or insulted someones placement? No. Who has? Anti. Mr. R. Among others. His peers arent you and me. His peers are other elite players. His actual peers have never said anything about him not being respectful. People like to talk about snowflakes these days snowflakes are the people easily affected by these antics.
You are right. I never once said I agree with or like the antics of other top players. But for some reason they dont seem to draw the kind of hate that Zack is getting. And its because they know when to dial it back. Zack hasn't learned this yet. He's shoving back, and its not turning out well for him. He keeps fanning the flames he's gonna get burned, and I'm honestly worried for him at this point.

A 15 year old that does not really get "restraint" wow stop the presses for that one.
 

Radical Larry

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@Wintermelon43 @ShadowGuy1 Nu~ Nu~
Okay, look, I just came back; I don't want to see ridiculous messages like that. I'm currently proud of T's performance to being top 3 with Link, and I can only hope the man, the inspiration, can go further with Link in other major tournaments like Civil War. And hopefully the other Link professionals can follow suit and start attending these high-end tournaments with him.
 

MarioManTAW

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The various characters at Civil War:

:4bayonetta: - CaptainZack gets 4th, notably upsetting Kameme, Mr. R, and Marss. Salem gets only 25th, losing to Shuton and Zinoto. 9B also has a strong showing, at 13th, notably defeating FOW and Ranai before being eliminated by Larry Lurr.
:4bowser: - No notable representation, with major Bowser mains like LordMix and KingKong not in attendance and Bowser secondaries Nairo and HIKARU opting to stick with their mains.
:4bowserjr: - ViceGrip was the only notable Jr. player in attendance, placing 129th after losing to Felix and k9sbruce. Tweek did not use Bowser Jr.
:4falcon: - Fatality placed 2nd, notably defeating Trela, komorikiri, Nairo, Kirihara, CaptainZack, and T.
:4charizard: - Draquaza and SilentDoom were the only notable Charizard players, placing 257th and 129th, respectively.
:4cloud: - Notably absent from top 8, with komorikiri eliminated at 17th and Tweek at 25th. Both were notably upset, komorikiri by Fatality, and Tweek by Kome. Mew2King, who was expected to have a resurgence due to Civil War being Smash 4-exclusive, placed only 49th, losing to Mr. R and Mr. E.
:4corrin: - Results overall poor, as Cosmos was not in attendance, Ryuga was disqualified in pools, and Earth and Ryo used Corrin only as a secondary. However, Zion notably upset Wrath with Corrin.
:4dedede: - No notable representation.
:4darkpit: - Vastly overshadowed by Pit, as usual, but notably used by Earth and Kameme vs CaptainZack, in which Earth and Kameme each won 1 game.
:4diddy: - Also notably absent from top 8. Upsets in Pools show the volatility of this character's matchups, with ZeRo losing to Xzax and Zinoto to Sonido, but MVD defeating WaDi, DJ Fliphop upsetting Mr. E, and Lycan upsetting both Samsora and Dath. With ZeRo eliminated at only 49th, Diddy's strongest representative was Zinoto, who placed 17th.
:4dk: - Unusually strong representation in HIKARU, who placed 7th, upsetting VoiD, ESAM, Tsu, and Mr. R. Other notable representation came in the form of Tweek (defeated Javi using primarily DK), Konga (65th place, upset Ned in pools), and DKwill (65th place).
:4drmario: - No notable representation.
:4duckhunt: - Only notably represented by ImHip, who used primarily Olimar and placed 33rd.
:4falco: - Above average representation for Falco, notably in Cyro, who placed 65th using solo Falco. Other notable Falcos include AC, who placed 25th, but used exclusively Meta Knight beyond pools, and Keitaro, who placed 97th and notably upset Zex.
:4fox: - Although absent from top 8, a strong showing nonetheless. Xzax upset ZeRo and placed 33rd, Eon placed 49th, Felix upset Wrath and placed 65th, and Larry Lurr placed 9th.
:4ganondorf: - This character's only purpose at this tournament was to give Marss a highlight reel.
:4greninja: - Represented notably by iStudying, who placed 65th, and Venia, who placed 129th.
:4myfriends: - Notably represented by Ryo, who placed 65th.
:4jigglypuff: - No one plays this character.
:4kirby: - Represented most notably by Poyo, who placed 97th.
:4littlemac: - Represented by pu55yk1ng, who placed 97th, notably defeating JJROCKETS, Vash, who also placed 97th and lost in part due to a misunderstanding of coaching rules, and WonderBread, who placed 65th, notably defeating Keitaro and Captain L.
:4link: - T placed 3rd, notably defeating and upsetting k9sbruce, NAKAT, Tsu, Abadango, and Fatality. Scizor was also in attendance and placed 97th.
:4lucario: - Notably represented by the top 2 Lucarios in the world, Tsu, who placed 13th, defeating falln, Nicko, and Zinoto, and Day, who placed 49th, notably defeating Glutonny.
:4lucas: - With Taiheita as one of only 3 PGR players not in attendance, Lucas had no significant representation.
:4lucina: - Though typically overshadowed by Marth, Lucina actually outplaced him here thanks to Mr. E, who exclusively used Lucina during top 64, defeating Mew2King and Kameme and placing 25th.
:4luigi: - Represented by the top 2 Luigi mains, each of whom placed 33rd, Elegant, who beat Pugwest, and Mr. ConCon, who defeated Jonny Westside, ScAtt, and Eon.
:4mario: - Another top character that fell short of top 8. Ally placed 25th, defeating Vinnie and later Zenyou in the ditto, but being upset by Locus and ESAM (who had previously struggled against Mario). ANTi also placed 25th, defeating S1 and VoiD, but being upset by Nicko and Samsora (eventually switching to Diddy Kong in the latter). Zenyou also notably placed 33rd.
:4marth: - Despite previously ranking high, Marth did rather poorly. The two highest-ranking Marths tied at 65th, with Pugwest losing to Elegant and 6WX, and MkLeo being upset by Meteor and AC. Also notable are False's losses to Aarvark and Snoop, Fuwa's to MVD and Luhtie, and Mr. E's to DJ Fliphop (after which he switched to Lucina).
:4megaman: - Although both of the top 2 Mega Man players were in attendance, neither did particularly well. Kameme placed 33rd, losing to CaptainZack and Mr. E, and ScAtt placed 65th, losing to Kameme (unfortunately the ditto ended in a cliffhanger when Kameme switched to Sheik) and Mr. ConCon.
:4metaknight: - Meta Knight had fairly good showings, but not from the players expected. Ito was not in attendance and MkLeo and Abadango opted to use their respective mains. Tyrant was there and played Meta Knight, but was upset by Remzi and Skorpio for a 97th place finish. AC carried the torch, though, and used exclusively Meta Knight during Top 96, in which he upset MkLeo, Dath, and NAKAT for a respectable 25th place. Also notable is DSS, who beat SS and Darkshad to finish 49th with solo Meta Knight.
:4mewtwo: - A top character who placed well, but with less top players than usual due to several of its top players being eliminated early. WaDi was upset by MVD in pools and when Larry Lurr was also upset early, WaDi lost again for a mere 49th place. Rich Brown likewise was upset by TonySherbert, then eliminated by Trela at 65th. However, Abadango was more resilient, and made it to top 16 (albeit with an occasional pocket Rosalina) before being double eliminated by T and Marss at 9th place.
:4gaw: - Only majorly represented by GimR, who placed a mere 129th, losing to 9B and being upset by Depunked.
:4ness: - Surprisingly good showings, with several of the best Ness mains in attendance. FOW placed 25th, notably upsetting Larry Lurr in pools. Other notable Ness players include Shaky, who notably upset saj and Ryo, SS, who notably upset Pink Fresh, and S1, each of whom placed 49th.
:4olimar: - Far more Olimar representation than one would expect, even with Dabuz using Rosalina almost exclusively. Shuton placed 13th, notably defeating Salem and Trela, ImHip placed 33rd with wins over Sonido and Aarvark, and Googs notably upset JK.
:4pacman: - No notable representation.
:4palutena: - Only majorly represented by TLTC, who placed 129th, losing to Dath and Hackoru.
:4peach: - Despite having only one high-level Peach player in attendance, Peach did surprisingly well. Samsora placed 17th, defeating Hackoru, Remzi, Meteor, Elegant, and ANTi, all while in Losers bracket.
:4pikachu: - Although the best 2 Pikachu mains in the world were in attendance, Pikachu's results were unimpressive. Captain L placed only 97th, losing to FOW and WonderBread, and though ESAM got an impressive 17th place, he largely used his secondaries in the high-level matches, so that his only notable wins with Pikachu were against ImHip and Raffi-X, along with a game win versus HIKARU.
:4pit: - Pit has been largely carried by Earth in Smash 4's history, and Civil War is no exception. While other Pit mains such as KiraFlax were in attendance, Earth was the only one to come out of pools, and he placed 17th, with victories over dyr and Xzax.
:4rob: - Both of the best ROB mains were in attendance, and while neither of them made top 32, their results are still telling of ROB's possible future. 8BitMan placed 49th and notably upset Zenyou, and Raffi-X placed 65th.
:4robinm: - Like with ROB, 2 major Robin mains attended Civil War, and both placed in top 96. Dath placed 49th, obtaining a set win over TLTC before being upset by Lycan and later AC. Skorpio was sent to losers by Marss, where he would encounter and upset Tyrant. Once in top 96, he faced Dath in the ditto and lost.
:rosalina: - The supreme champion of Civil War, Dabuz, used almost exclusively Rosalina, as did several other high-placing players, further solidifying Rosalina's place as a dominant force in top tier. Dabuz placed 1st, not dropping a single game, with wins over MVD, Shuton, Kirihara, CaptainZack, T, and Fatality. Other top Rosalina players include Kirihara, who placed 5th, with wins over ESAM, Locus, Larry Lurr, and HIKARU, falln, who placed 13th, with wins over Ned, Shaky, Kome, Wrath, and Earth, and Abadango, whose pocket Rosalina notably beat HIKARU. At a lower level, TonySherbert notably upset Rich Brown.
:4feroy: - No notable representation. Perhaps worth noting, though, that VoiD's Roy never won a set in the April Saga Round Robin.
:4ryu: - Another character with a big breakout here. Notable placings include Locus at 7th, with wins over Ally, Samsora, Shuton, and Nairo, Trela at 17th, with wins over S1, Rich Brown, Day, Nicko, and AC, and Darkshad at 65th.
:4samus: - An unexpected character who made waves due to one pocket of one player in one set. ESAM's Samus 3-0'd Ally in losers, "ending the Civil War" as well as exemplifying another upset and ESAM's overcoming his worst/least favorite matchup. (The set count was 3-1, but the one game Ally won, ESAM played Mewtwo, so my statement stands.)
:4sheik: - A character who shockingly did not make it into Top 8, despite numerous Top 96 placings. Notable placings include Mr. R at 9th, obtaining wins over Mew2King, 9B, and Nietono before being upset by CaptainZack and HIKARU, Nietono at 17th, with wins over Sonido and FOW, VoiD at 33rd, obtaining a win over Day before being upset by HIKARU and ANTi (worth noting that he played Fox vs HIKARU), and Vinnie, also at 33rd, with wins over Charliedaking, Angel Cortes, and 8BitMan.
:4shulk: - Big breakout character who made many upsets in Pools, but did not make it to Top 32. Notable players in attendance include Kome, who placed 33rd, upsetting Ryo and Tweek, Nicko, also 33rd, who upset Glutonny and ANTi, and Tremendo Dude, who drowned in pools at 129th.
:4sonic: - While not appearing in Top 8, Sonic proved to be very volatile, involved on both sides of major upsets, including Sonido :4sonic: > Zinoto :4diddy:, Meteor :4sonic: > MkLeo :4marth:, Felix :4fox: > 6WX :4sonic:, and Zion :4corrinf: > Wrath :4sonic:. In the end, Wrath was the highest-placing Sonic, at 25th, with wins over Vash, Felix, DSS, and Lycan, followed by 6WX at 33rd, with wins over Pugwest and SS, Meteor at 49th, with a win over MkLeo, and Sonido at 65th, with a win over Zinoto. Also notable that KEN, a Sonic, was one of the 3 PGR members not in attendance.
:4tlink: - Like Lucas, Toon Link's best player was not in attendance despite being ranked on the PGR, but unlike Lucas, Toon Link did have a notable representative. Zan placed 97th, losing to HIKARU and Ned.
:4villager: - A character that has widely been respected due to one player, and now has more players backing him. As usual, Ranai was the highest-placed Villager, at 17th, with wins over DSS and Marss. However, Aarvark also placed notably well, at 49th, with wins over False and ven.
:4wario2: - A character previously largely absent from the metagame now has a notable player travel to the US. Unfortunately, Glutonny was upset early on by Nicko, so Wario's best placement was 65th, and Glutonny's most notable win was over Poyo.
:4wiifit: - Another character whose few mains rarely travel. John Numbers was able to attend Civil War, though, so Wii Fit Trainer got a taste of the spotlight. John Numbers notably beat Draquaza before losing a very close set with 9B, then lost again to Zenyou, taking a perhaps disappointing, but still impressive, 65th place.
:4yoshi: - Yet another character whose results tend to be heavily localized, although Yoshi has more notable mains than either Wii Fit Trainer or Wario. The only notable Yoshi at Civil War, though, was Snoop, who placed 65th and notably upset False.
:4zelda: - Still another character with few dedicated mains. ven, possibly the best Zelda main, was in attendance, placing 65th and notably upsetting Venom.
:4zss: - A top tier who made it to top 8, but not with the player expected. At the top level, Marss outplaced Nairo, placing 5th with wins over Tweek, Nietono, falln, Abadango, and Locus, whereas Nairo placed 9th with wins over Shaky, Javi, and Ranai. At a lower level, Luhtie made waves with a 33rd place finish and upsets over Fuwa, Raffi-X, and ZeRo, and Remzi also notably upset Tyrant.
 

Nu~

Smash Dreamer
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@Wintermelon43 @ShadowGuy1 Nu~ Nu~
Okay, look, I just came back; I don't want to see ridiculous messages like that. I'm currently proud of T's performance to being top 3 with Link, and I can only hope the man, the inspiration, can go further with Link in other major tournaments like Civil War. And hopefully the other Link professionals can follow suit and start attending these high-end tournaments with him.
Das my dood~ (⌐■_■)
 

MarioManTAW

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
843
Tier list based solely on Civil War Singles results (check spoiler for methods, parentheses indicate identical point values):

A: :rosalina::4bayonetta::4diddy::4sheik::4zss::4fox:
B: :4cloud::4ryu::4mario::4ness:(:4dk::4sonic:):4mewtwo::4falcon::4villager::4link::4olimar::4lucario:
C: (:4luigi::4metaknight::4shulk:)(:4peach::4pikachu::4pit::4samus:):4megaman::4lucina:(:4rob::4robinm:)
D: :4marth:(:4greninja::4myfriends::4littlemac::4wario2::4wiifit::4yoshi::4zelda:)
F: (:4bowser::4bowserjr::4charizard::4corrin::4darkpit::4dedede::4drmario::4duckhunt::4falco::4ganondorf::4jigglypuff::4kirby::4lucas::4gaw::4pacman::4palutena::4feroy::4tlink:)

I made the list using a points system as defined by smash.gg's Fantasy.
550 1st
520 2nd
490 3rd
460 4th
430 5th
390 7th
350 9th
310 13th
270 17th
220 25th
170 33rd
120 49th
60 65th
0 97th and lower

To determine each character's score, I basically envisioned what the score would be if I made a Fantasy team of all the players of that character.
For players who played more than one character, I placed them with whoever they played most in top 96 (NAKAT represents Fox, not Ness, and Tweek represents Cloud, not DK, for example). This was pretty clear-cut for most players, but for ESAM and SS, I placed their score with both of their primary characters (Pikachu and Samus for ESAM, Villager and Ness for SS), so that each gets the same amount of points they would have if their player only played one of the characters (basically no points were deducted for dual maining over single maining).

Letter-point correspondence:
A: >900 (actual range: 990-1350)
B: 400-900 (actual range: 430-840)
C: 150-400 (actual range: 180-340)
D: <150 (actual range: 60-120)
F: 0
 

wedl!!

Goddess of Storms
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folks, the **** Zack gets for being an eccentric 15 year old is like, a good reason why I don't play Smash 4 much anymore

say what you will about r/kappa (I hate it personally), but at least the good FG players aren't being as cantankerous as them
 
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Jaguar360

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The various characters at Civil War:

:4bayonetta: - CaptainZack gets 4th, notably upsetting Kameme, Mr. R, and Marss. Salem gets only 25th, losing to Shuton and Zinoto. 9B also has a strong showing, at 13th, notably defeating FOW and Ranai before being eliminated by Larry Lurr.
:4bowser: - No notable representation, with major Bowser mains like LordMix and KingKong not in attendance and Bowser secondaries Nairo and HIKARU opting to stick with their mains.
:4bowserjr: - ViceGrip was the only notable Jr. player in attendance, placing 129th after losing to Felix and k9sbruce. Tweek did not use Bowser Jr.
:4falcon: - Fatality placed 2nd, notably defeating Trela, komorikiri, Nairo, Kirihara, CaptainZack, and T.
:4charizard: - Draquaza and SilentDoom were the only notable Charizard players, placing 257th and 129th, respectively.
:4cloud: - Notably absent from top 8, with komorikiri eliminated at 17th and Tweek at 25th. Both were notably upset, komorikiri by Fatality, and Tweek by Kome. Mew2King, who was expected to have a resurgence due to Civil War being Smash 4-exclusive, placed only 49th, losing to Mr. R and Mr. E.
:4corrin: - Results overall poor, as Cosmos was not in attendance, Ryuga was disqualified in pools, and Earth and Ryo used Corrin only as a secondary. However, Zion notably upset Wrath with Corrin.
:4dedede: - No notable representation.
:4darkpit: - Vastly overshadowed by Pit, as usual, but notably used by Earth and Kameme vs CaptainZack, in which Earth and Kameme each won 1 game.
:4diddy: - Also notably absent from top 8. Upsets in Pools show the volatility of this character's matchups, with ZeRo losing to Xzax and Zinoto to Sonido, but MVD defeating WaDi, DJ Fliphop upsetting Mr. E, and Lycan upsetting both Samsora and Dath. With ZeRo eliminated at only 49th, Diddy's strongest representative was Zinoto, who placed 17th.
:4dk: - Unusually strong representation in HIKARU, who placed 7th, upsetting VoiD, ESAM, Tsu, and Mr. R. Other notable representation came in the form of Tweek (defeated Javi using primarily DK), Konga (65th place, upset Ned in pools), and DKwill (65th place).
:4drmario: - No notable representation.
:4duckhunt: - Only notably represented by ImHip, who used primarily Olimar and placed 33rd.
:4falco: - Above average representation for Falco, notably in Cyro, who placed 65th using solo Falco. Other notable Falcos include AC, who placed 25th, but used exclusively Meta Knight beyond pools, and Keitaro, who placed 97th and notably upset Zex.
:4fox: - Although absent from top 8, a strong showing nonetheless. Xzax upset ZeRo and placed 33rd, Eon placed 49th, Felix upset Wrath and placed 65th, and Larry Lurr placed 9th.
:4ganondorf: - This character's only purpose at this tournament was to give Marss a highlight reel.
:4greninja: - Represented notably by iStudying, who placed 65th, and Venia, who placed 129th.
:4myfriends: - Notably represented by Ryo, who placed 65th.
:4jigglypuff: - No one plays this character.
:4kirby: - Represented most notably by Poyo, who placed 97th.
:4littlemac: - Represented by pu55yk1ng, who placed 97th, notably defeating JJROCKETS, Vash, who also placed 97th and lost in part due to a misunderstanding of coaching rules, and WonderBread, who placed 65th, notably defeating Keitaro and Captain L.
:4link: - T placed 3rd, notably defeating and upsetting k9sbruce, NAKAT, Tsu, Abadango, and Fatality. Scizor was also in attendance and placed 97th.
:4lucario: - Notably represented by the top 2 Lucarios in the world, Tsu, who placed 13th, defeating falln, Nicko, and Zinoto, and Day, who placed 49th, notably defeating Glutonny.
:4lucas: - With Taiheita as one of only 3 PGR players not in attendance, Lucas had no significant representation.
:4lucina: - Though typically overshadowed by Marth, Lucina actually outplaced him here thanks to Mr. E, who exclusively used Lucina during top 64, defeating Mew2King and Kameme and placing 25th.
:4luigi: - Represented by the top 2 Luigi mains, each of whom placed 33rd, Elegant, who beat Pugwest, and Mr. ConCon, who defeated Jonny Westside, ScAtt, and Eon.
:4mario: - Another top character that fell short of top 8. Ally placed 25th, defeating Vinnie and later Zenyou in the ditto, but being upset by Locus and ESAM (who had previously struggled against Mario). ANTi also placed 25th, defeating S1 and VoiD, but being upset by Nicko and Samsora (eventually switching to Diddy Kong in the latter). Zenyou also notably placed 33rd.
:4marth: - Despite previously ranking high, Marth did rather poorly. The two highest-ranking Marths tied at 65th, with Pugwest losing to Elegant and 6WX, and MkLeo being upset by Meteor and AC. Also notable are False's losses to Aarvark and Snoop, Fuwa's to MVD and Luhtie, and Mr. E's to DJ Fliphop (after which he switched to Lucina).
:4megaman: - Although both of the top 2 Mega Man players were in attendance, neither did particularly well. Kameme placed 33rd, losing to CaptainZack and Mr. E, and ScAtt placed 65th, losing to Kameme (unfortunately the ditto ended in a cliffhanger when Kameme switched to Sheik) and Mr. ConCon.
:4metaknight: - Meta Knight had fairly good showings, but not from the players expected. Ito was not in attendance and MkLeo and Abadango opted to use their respective mains. Tyrant was there and played Meta Knight, but was upset by Remzi and Skorpio for a 97th place finish. AC carried the torch, though, and used exclusively Meta Knight during Top 96, in which he upset MkLeo, Dath, and NAKAT for a respectable 25th place. Also notable is DSS, who beat SS and Darkshad to finish 49th with solo Meta Knight.
:4mewtwo: - A top character who placed well, but with less top players than usual due to several of its top players being eliminated early. WaDi was upset by MVD in pools and when Larry Lurr was also upset early, WaDi lost again for a mere 49th place. Rich Brown likewise was upset by TonySherbert, then eliminated by Trela at 65th. However, Abadango was more resilient, and made it to top 16 (albeit with an occasional pocket Rosalina) before being double eliminated by T and Marss at 9th place.
:4gaw: - Only majorly represented by GimR, who placed a mere 129th, losing to 9B and being upset by Depunked.
:4ness: - Surprisingly good showings, with several of the best Ness mains in attendance. FOW placed 25th, notably upsetting Larry Lurr in pools. Other notable Ness players include Shaky, who notably upset saj and Ryo, SS, who notably upset Pink Fresh, and S1, each of whom placed 49th.
:4olimar: - Far more Olimar representation than one would expect, even with Dabuz using Rosalina almost exclusively. Shuton placed 13th, notably defeating Salem and Trela, ImHip placed 33rd with wins over Sonido and Aarvark, and Googs notably upset JK.
:4pacman: - No notable representation.
:4palutena: - Only majorly represented by TLTC, who placed 129th, losing to Dath and Hackoru.
:4peach: - Despite having only one high-level Peach player in attendance, Peach did surprisingly well. Samsora placed 17th, defeating Hackoru, Remzi, Meteor, Elegant, and ANTi, all while in Losers bracket.
:4pikachu: - Although the best 2 Pikachu mains in the world were in attendance, Pikachu's results were unimpressive. Captain L placed only 97th, losing to FOW and WonderBread, and though ESAM got an impressive 17th place, he largely used his secondaries in the high-level matches, so that his only notable wins with Pikachu were against ImHip and Raffi-X, along with a game win versus HIKARU.
:4pit: - Pit has been largely carried by Earth in Smash 4's history, and Civil War is no exception. While other Pit mains such as KiraFlax were in attendance, Earth was the only one to come out of pools, and he placed 17th, with victories over dyr and Xzax.
:4rob: - Both of the best ROB mains were in attendance, and while neither of them made top 32, their results are still telling of ROB's possible future. 8BitMan placed 49th and notably upset Zenyou, and Raffi-X placed 65th.
:4robinm: - Like with ROB, 2 major Robin mains attended Civil War, and both placed in top 96. Dath placed 49th, obtaining a set win over TLTC before being upset by Lycan and later AC. Skorpio was sent to losers by Marss, where he would encounter and upset Tyrant. Once in top 96, he faced Dath in the ditto and lost.
:rosalina: - The supreme champion of Civil War, Dabuz, used almost exclusively Rosalina, as did several other high-placing players, further solidifying Rosalina's place as a dominant force in top tier. Dabuz placed 1st, not dropping a single game, with wins over MVD, Shuton, Kirihara, CaptainZack, T, and Fatality. Other top Rosalina players include Kirihara, who placed 5th, with wins over ESAM, Locus, Larry Lurr, and HIKARU, falln, who placed 13th, with wins over Ned, Shaky, Kome, Wrath, and Earth, and Abadango, whose pocket Rosalina notably beat HIKARU. At a lower level, TonySherbert notably upset Rich Brown.
:4feroy: - No notable representation. Perhaps worth noting, though, that VoiD's Roy never won a set in the April Saga Round Robin.
:4ryu: - Another character with a big breakout here. Notable placings include Locus at 7th, with wins over Ally, Samsora, Shuton, and Nairo, Trela at 17th, with wins over S1, Rich Brown, Day, Nicko, and AC, and Darkshad at 65th.
:4samus: - An unexpected character who made waves due to one pocket of one player in one set. ESAM's Samus 3-0'd Ally in losers, "ending the Civil War" as well as exemplifying another upset and ESAM's overcoming his worst/least favorite matchup. (The set count was 3-1, but the one game Ally won, ESAM played Mewtwo, so my statement stands.)
:4sheik: - A character who shockingly did not make it into Top 8, despite numerous Top 96 placings. Notable placings include Mr. R at 9th, obtaining wins over Mew2King, 9B, and Nietono before being upset by CaptainZack and HIKARU, Nietono at 17th, with wins over Sonido and FOW, VoiD at 33rd, obtaining a win over Day before being upset by HIKARU and ANTi (worth noting that he played Fox vs HIKARU), and Vinnie, also at 33rd, with wins over Charliedaking, Angel Cortes, and 8BitMan.
:4shulk: - Big breakout character who made many upsets in Pools, but did not make it to Top 32. Notable players in attendance include Kome, who placed 33rd, upsetting Ryo and Tweek, Nicko, also 33rd, who upset Glutonny and ANTi, and Tremendo Dude, who drowned in pools at 129th.
:4sonic: - While not appearing in Top 8, Sonic proved to be very volatile, involved on both sides of major upsets, including Sonido :4sonic: > Zinoto :4diddy:, Meteor :4sonic: > MkLeo :4marth:, Felix :4fox: > 6WX :4sonic:, and Zion :4corrinf: > Wrath :4sonic:. In the end, Wrath was the highest-placing Sonic, at 25th, with wins over Vash, Felix, DSS, and Lycan, followed by 6WX at 33rd, with wins over Pugwest and SS, Meteor at 49th, with a win over MkLeo, and Sonido at 65th, with a win over Zinoto. Also notable that KEN, a Sonic, was one of the 3 PGR members not in attendance.
:4tlink: - Like Lucas, Toon Link's best player was not in attendance despite being ranked on the PGR, but unlike Lucas, Toon Link did have a notable representative. Zan placed 97th, losing to HIKARU and Ned.
:4villager: - A character that has widely been respected due to one player, and now has more players backing him. As usual, Ranai was the highest-placed Villager, at 17th, with wins over DSS and Marss. However, Aarvark also placed notably well, at 49th, with wins over False and ven.
:4wario2: - A character previously largely absent from the metagame now has a notable player travel to the US. Unfortunately, Glutonny was upset early on by Nicko, so Wario's best placement was 65th, and Glutonny's most notable win was over Poyo.
:4wiifit: - Another character whose few mains rarely travel. John Numbers was able to attend Civil War, though, so Wii Fit Trainer got a taste of the spotlight. John Numbers notably beat Draquaza before losing a very close set with 9B, then lost again to Zenyou, taking a perhaps disappointing, but still impressive, 65th place.
:4yoshi: - Yet another character whose results tend to be heavily localized, although Yoshi has more notable mains than either Wii Fit Trainer or Wario. The only notable Yoshi at Civil War, though, was Snoop, who placed 65th and notably upset False.
:4zelda: - Still another character with few dedicated mains. ven, possibly the best Zelda main, was in attendance, placing 65th and notably upsetting Venom.
:4zss: - A top tier who made it to top 8, but not with the player expected. At the top level, Marss outplaced Nairo, placing 5th with wins over Tweek, Nietono, falln, Abadango, and Locus, whereas Nairo placed 9th with wins over Shaky, Javi, and Ranai. At a lower level, Luhtie made waves with a 33rd place finish and upsets over Fuwa, Raffi-X, and ZeRo, and Remzi also notably upset Tyrant.
Other notable things to add:
:4tlink: - Das, L.U.C.Y., and Nail tied with Zan for 97th
:4ness: - S1 managed to 3-0 TonySherbert :rosalina:, giving further credence to the belief that Rosa's not a roadblock for Ness
:4samus: - Jonny Westside attended, getting 97th and losing to Mr. R and Mr. Concon. Danish also got 129th losing to Kameme and Zenyou.
:4greninja: - Upchuckle also got 129th beating AEMehr :4miigun: and losing to Karna and Nevada's Doomlion. Venia had a notably close set vs Javi's Sheik before disgustingly dying on the Smashville platform at 53%. :salt:
:4miigun: - AEMehr got 193rd, taking a game off JK and losing to Upchuckle
:4ganondorf: - Lord Bahamut beat New Mexico's #1 FinalBoss :4bowser:, but still only got 257th.
:4bowser: - FinalBoss got 129th, getting upset by Lord Bahamut and then losing to False
:4pikachu: - NCJacobT got 97th beating Silentdoom and losing to Captain Zack and Zenyou, while Scourgemom got 129th losing to Raffi-X and ven
:4wendy: - Taternator got 129th losing to Konga and Legit
:4jigglypuff: - Speclar got 97th losing to Locus and CDK and Sin got 193rd losing to DOOM and Kai
:4drmario: - Represented by B7Games (infamous for sending Abadango to losers at his own saga and always being placed in pool B7), who was upset by YO-1, but beat NotLast :4peach: and took a game off of Tyrant
 
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