Teleporting for Dummies: A New In-progress Ness Stage Guide

Jiffyboob

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#81
I like Halberd.
Castle Siege is fun though, gotta play really campy in some parts and really watch your recovery in others.
I honestly like RC because you can pretty much choose which areas you want to fight in and the layout of the stage will get your opponent in the air.
 

Yink

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#82
I like Halberd.
Castle Siege is fun though, gotta play really campy in some parts and really watch your recovery in others.
I honestly like RC because you can pretty much choose which areas you want to fight in and the layout of the stage will get your opponent in the air.
I pretty much agree with you. I find Halberd to be one of my best CPs, and RC is really fun (fthrow glitches lol). But yeah.

If it's legal, I like PS2. Ness in the wind is just, amazing. He's ok on the ice, and good on the electric part too. It's just not a bad stage for him.

ALSO, if it's legal. Japes. ...take the Starfox team there, seriously. Not to mention Ness/Lucas both can live in the water for quite awhile thanks to their weird jumping.
 

Eagleye893

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#87
Good CPs:

Brinstar -- depends on character. Highly depends. Beware of taking a couple characters here (people who kill early, anyone with lava tricks, anyone with tricks on the bubbles in the center of the stage... Etc.)
Delfino -- good for everything: spike kills on water (setups too with pkfire and Pkt tailwhip), fthrow kills on parts, pkt2 savior on stage-change... The things to watch out for are CG'ers and campy characters. Campy, b/c some parts of this stage highly favor the one in stock/percent lead, and camping to get the time or force the approach is easy.
Norfair -- if legal, it's a backup brinstar. Watch for characters whose stage movement are improved by the multiple platforms though.
SV -- our best starter stage by a longshot... Easy to use for a CP as well.
Lylat -- depends. Stage can hate on you or like you. If you're on the right spots, game will be easy. Multiple platforms helps, plus the ability to platform cancel. Depends on how you play, but only hurts ness on recovery for a small portion of the time.
Halberd -- I like this stage for the platform in the middle. It sucks during the flat part, but it's GREAT for the flying platform part. Recovery help, FH shenanigans again, drop through stuff works great... Can keep away CG'ers very well. Also, the go-through part of the stage makes lots of strategies easier. IIRC, the flat stage on the ship may be slightly larger and thus easier to live longer on... But same goes with opponent.
Frigate -- as long as you know what you can do when on the right side of the inital stage (NEVER WASTING DJ), it's actually an awesome stage against many characters. You have wall potential. Funky lip on left side allows for your DJ to be cut short and basically insta-grab ledge, like FD. platform on second part helps. First part platform is iffy, but I use it well. The second part helps recovery with the moving platforms. Also allows mindgames.
 

Dajayman

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#88
Brinstar is just a godly stage for Ness. Kills happen way earlier for Ness. Bthrow/bair kills like 30% earlier on Brinstar, it's ridiculous. Also acid + uair is just ****, and our uair was already broken. PK Fire becomes 1,000x more useful since you can set it up on the tentacles to the sides for edge pressure or the bubbles in the center for splitting Brinstar in two.

There's also a lot of simple stuff that make Brinstar great for us. It's small size and small platforms allow for easy stage control, the slopes mess up grab releases on us, and the stage is passthrough for more recovery options.

Brinstar da bess! ;3
 

Dajayman

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#90
This is a stage discussion thread. You should post that in the video thread.

I'll only give one stage related advice from that video, and that's don't ever play Falco on FD.
 

Yink

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#91
I'm trying to improve on Ness, and noticed this was a thread for him. I was wondering if you guys could give me any tips/ advice/ criticism to help me get better. Heres a tournament match from me, so check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M-i7ZC0kBU and tell me what you think. Thanks
Hey, Rock. Just post all these in the vid thread. :p

As for you PSI, Halberd's amazing. I love planking on the platforms with Ness (I know, it's crazy isn't it. Plus recovering is easier, and you can spike through platforms and things like that.
 

Dajayman

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#92
I hope every Ness main loves Brinstar as much as I do.

I'm making up a new Ness rule:
You aren't a true Ness player if Brinstar isn't your favorite stage. ;3
 

malick11

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#95
hey i'm a ness main and i'm trying to get better and learn competitive strategies, but can someone explain to me what pk jump and pkt are and also direct me to a thread showing how to use different strategies like these? thanks
 

Dajayman

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#96
PK Jump is an Advanced Technique (AT) that allows Ness to boost forward in the air by using a dj and PK Fire (PKF) at the same time.

PKT is a short term for PK Thunder, Ness' upb.

This isn't exactly the place to be asking for help, since this a stage discussion thread. You should visit the Q&A thread or the Ness social thread if you have specific questions. You should probably read the beginner Ness guide for the basics, it's either stickied or you can find it in the Directory thread.
 

Eagleye893

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#97
If you have any questions about PSImag, PK JUMP, dtilt, dash attack, bair, or FH aerials, ask me.... xD



Otherwise, I agree with yink. You can't "plank" but ness' manuevering allows him to attack well surrounding the ledge. Just don't go TOO aggressive or you'll kill yourself by fluke.

In order to do that, you must know two things: your DJ height to get to the ledge perfectly, and the actual lag of all your moves. It helps to use bair, as it is a layout type of thing and gives you a slightly higher possibility of moving onto the stage to land... Ya know snake's bair? Think of that on a down-graded scale... I like ledge-game... It makes ness better...

Ness has some major parts of his game that, when all mastered to be used seamlessly, bring out the best parts of ness. In order of priority to one's learning, here they are, IMO:

Pkt2 angles and directions,
Aerial spacing/timing/landing (with every usage... Not just FH or DAS..),
Grab lead-ins and mindgames to make a person run into your grab capabilities,
Spacing the quick ground moves (utilt, dtilt, ftilt the most),
Projectile pressuring with Pkt and pkfire (must know how to space EXTREMELY well)
And PSImag healing and gimmick-ing.
 

Yink

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#98
I hope every Ness main loves Brinstar as much as I do.

I'm making up a new Ness rule:
You aren't a true Ness player if Brinstar isn't your favorite stage. ;3
This is kind of true haha.

How about we discuss it in depth (just as the title says) so we all feel your love towards it dajay.


Yink how do you plank with ness? do you use fair or what?
I use fair and nair. Halberd makes that incredibly easy. On other stages it is just flat out not as safe. You can also plank with PKT, but once again it's not as safe.

hey i'm a ness main and i'm trying to get better and learn competitive strategies, but can someone explain to me what pk jump and pkt are and also direct me to a thread showing how to use different strategies like these? thanks
PK Jump is an Advanced Technique (AT) that allows Ness to boost forward in the air by using a dj and PK Fire (PKF) at the same time.

PKT is a short term for PK Thunder, Ness' upb.

This isn't exactly the place to be asking for help, since this a stage discussion thread. You should visit the Q&A thread or the Ness social thread if you have specific questions. You should probably read the beginner Ness guide for the basics, it's either stickied or you can find it in the Directory thread.
Thank you very much Dajay. Welcome Malick! Our Directory thread is at the top of the page, use it as much as you need it and feel free to ask us questions in the Ness FAQ thread up top (both threads are stickies).

EDIT: I think we should discuss more controversial stages (such as Norfair, Japes and Pokemon Stadium 2). Would anybody like to give any input on those stages? I feel like PS2 and Japes are just like...if someone bans Brinstar go there if they're legal.
 

Eagleye893

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#99
No... Delfino takes priority over Ps2...

Japes is too questionable for me... I like being able to avoid kills due to the high ceiling, but lots of my kills are by uair (PKJUMP> uair, FHpkfire>landing uair, ....)

I've been (mentally) training myself to use Bair to near perfection, but bair is much more difficult to slip in for an unexpected kill. The only way to use it is expectedly, shield poke, mindgame run away, and RAR (which I am a freaking pro at... I never have to even think about doing it anymore... Except concerning Nair...)...
 

Dajayman

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You can spam bair to your heart's content, it's a very safe move. It's even safer when used by the edge since it'll either shieldpush people offstage or hit, which makes killing with it easier since they'll obviously be closer to the side blastzones. The only slight problem I have with bair is thst it's usually stale, so it's kill potential is dropped. So I either start unstaling it with aerial mixups about 30% before it can reliably kill or just use uair/bthrow.

Anyways I'm iffy on Japes being legit, I think Yink is just insane in the membrane. Maybe if you could explain how Ness rapes here or what gimmicks he has?

PS2 is legit though. Ness can abuse PS2 well, especially in the air transformation.

Norfair is alright as well. Lots of aerial platform abuse, lava to possibly assist our recovery, and even more lava combos then Brinstar.
 

Jiffyboob

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Japes is a campy Ness delight. Stay to the right. Water helps our recovery, PKT can hit you (at the right angle, going almost straight up through to the bottom of the platform) when you are standing on the side platforms so you do a PKT2.

PS2 is fun, I personally like the Ice transformation. PKT2 goes the whole length of the stage there. :)
 

Yink

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You can spam bair to your heart's content, it's a very safe move. It's even safer when used by the edge since it'll either shieldpush people offstage or hit, which makes killing with it easier since they'll obviously be closer to the side blastzones. The only slight problem I have with bair is thst it's usually stale, so it's kill potential is dropped. So I either start unstaling it with aerial mixups about 30% before it can reliably kill or just use uair/bthrow.

Anyways I'm iffy on Japes being legit, I think Yink is just insane in the membrane. Maybe if you could explain how Ness rapes here or what gimmicks he has?

PS2 is legit though. Ness can abuse PS2 well, especially in the air transformation.

Norfair is alright as well. Lots of aerial platform abuse, lava to possibly assist our recovery, and even more lava combos then Brinstar.
Seriously, play on Japes seriously and see how well Ness can camp. Not to mention Spacies love this stage, and you pretty much strip them of their enjoyment to it. :3. Ness lives in the water reasonably well (so does Lucas, actually). The high ceiling helps you live longer, yet Bthrow is still just as effective. PK Jump around as much as you want. It's easy to camp and be safe on this stage.

Japes is a campy Ness delight. Stay to the right. Water helps our recovery, PKT can hit you (at the right angle, going almost straight up through to the bottom of the platform) when you are standing on the side platforms so you do a PKT2.

PS2 is fun, I personally like the Ice transformation. PKT2 goes the whole length of the stage there. :)
I agree with you Jiffy. I approve.

Talk about Delfino more cuz its incredibly good for Ness.
Waterspikes, ability for wall-locks, tons of ways to stay alive if you're in trouble (such as PKT2 through the stage). However, I would not take DDD here at all.

EDIT (again): I also want to talk about stages that are particularly troublesome for Ness. Yoshi's Island comes to mind lol.
 

Susi

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I always ban FD vs Falcos, and every Ness should IMO. Japes is much better, Falco's usmash gets nerfed and when Ness is using magnet on the side platforms Falco can't (B)DACUS you out of laser hop, and using phantasm on the magnet is more risky. Platforms help to avoid grabs and Falco's KO moves.
I still don't really understand why Ness should CP that. Maybe in some MUs...
 

Eagleye893

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Ness should never CP FD....

FD is terrible unless you know the whole DJ craziness on the lip.

I see the argument for Japes: kill percents raised for upward kills, pkt2 can be saved by water (I get killed by the crocodile), Effective camping and pressuring across the stage, and spike kills by water. Also, if you're lucky, you can force a death using Pkt tailwhip I your opponent is on water.
 

Yink

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Just watch the timer for the Klap...it comes around on the 7's of the timer (example: 6:57, 6:47) on the front platform, then at the 5's on the second platform.
 

Eagleye893

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I'll eventually go to a Brainshock, I just need money. Being a jobless bum is rough tough stuff.


I'm pretty sure my parents wouldn't be too angry if I told them I would go to brainshock... What is the tentative date?
 

PSI.kick

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Getting a banana chucked at my face. WHISTLE!!
so yeah discussion on norfair? no problem.
I don't usually play on this stage but i know a bit about it:

Ledges: there are a lot of them, so use them to help with recovery or edge guarding or whatever.
Our recovery is helped greatly by being able to grab any of the ledges and being able to go through any of the platforms.
Pkt can be fun and tricky, but since the stage is made up of platforms you can go under any of them, including the main section.
Platforms can be really nice for pk jump setups, go from above and you'll be in the perfect position for an uair kill on them if you hit with pkf. you could do that or a bair/nair, i'm not sure about dair though. for tall characters a grounded pkf from an upper platform will hit them, and also keep in mind the height of them which is very good for sh aerials. so that stuff for approaching can be nice.
for the lava, i don't know much but to air/spotdodge or shield. is it completely randomized what happens or is there a set pattern?
 

Eagleye893

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Are we still discussing CPs?

For some reason, my iPhone hates me and doesn't post when I say to.....

My order:

Brinstar > most others; (some characters perform equally well on this stage, so be on the lookout and DON'T ALWAYS choose this stage, because someone will have a reason for not banning it)

Japes; Not too bad overall, but the problem is that this is banned nearly everywhere. The ceilings are high, so you live longer. Bthrow isn't extraordinarily bad, and the angle is difficult to keep correct on the stage in terms of opponent DI. Spikes are still viable. You can use crazy shenanigans with pkt tailwhip and pkfire to do some gimpy stuff on the water..... it's a bit risky though. Ness can play either campy or aggressive with not too much worry... I really like that.

Castle Siege; I often discredit this stage. It's great. All portions can act for or against ness, and your ability to manipulate your opponent and parts of the stage determine your ability to win.

Frigate Orpheon; If you know what you're doing and don't put yourself at major risk on the right side of the stage where there is no ledge, you can actually use all parts of the stage to your complete advantage. I didn't know this until lately. drop through platform heights are nice. Ness can gimp on the right side on the first part of the stage. Ness' recovery may be saved by the platforms on the second part. Ness' DJ can do crazy stuff on the left ledge on the first part of the stage; if you jump into it right, you cancel the DJ by hitting your head and immediately grab the ledge, which is similar to FD.

Lylat: You can Platform Cancel... that's about it for overall pluses, but in specifics for ness, drop through heights are near perfect for bair. Angles on the stage allow for PKfire dominance. The spread of the platforms are awesome enough to allow both proper movement and safe placement under a platform. B/C ness has great drop-through stuff with bair, pressuring campier characters isn't as much of a problem... I like this stage, but it HATES me... Avoid this one if it's the same, but it's a good option.

Delfino; This stage has lots of pluses. The water is great! (I have problems with it for some reason). The funky near-blast-zone parts of stages allow for earlier kills. The ability to move around on platforms is nice..... NEVER TAKE CAMPY CHARACTERS HERE!!! This stage is very campy (move to the safe parts of stages, such as under platforms or just on edges or somewhat near blast-zones), which is why I personally avoid it.
 
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