Team Star Fox call in Krystal for Smash!

[TheCynicalCdr]

damn, I was hoping you had an account. I'm fairly confident that reddit does not like Krystal so we have our work cut out for us. Personally inviting the moderators to E3, it's hard to imagine they didn't expect them to address what the redditors wanted. Well I'll see what we can do I have no intentions of giving up there.

I've only witnessed one or few that expressed their hatred, but this was during the ballot. Not to mention their arguments are entirely debunked due to Zero actually benefitting her (and really everyone who appeared past 64). Its flopping proved to be the most ironic twist imaginable.

Spoiler

To put it like this, Star Fox 64 kinda wasnt the best game as some still try to argue. I'm not saying it's bad, but I wont go and say it's a masterpiece either because im not one of those blind nostalgia people. I've seen someone try to act like the sales mean a lot, but when its port to the 3DS and its remake dont do well at all that really says a whole lot.

The key point is between Star Fox 64, Ocarina of Time, and Mario 64, Star Fox 64 has no other reason for performing so poorly on 3DS and with its remake Zero, while Mario 64 DS and OoT 3D easily outdoes them. During the N64 era, those three were equally as popular. To add more, Splatoon was a brand new IP and easily sold over a million in 28 days and that was on a dying system.

 

[Gagnetar]

Is there a Krystal Subreddit? Follow-up question, is there a Krystal Subreddit that hasn't been trolled into oblivion?

I wouldn't know, i haven't looked. Preaching to the choir seems pointless to me unless they'd join us in supporting her, though I think stuff like that isn't allowed on reddit.

I've only witnessed one or few that expressed their hatred, but this was during the ballot. Not to mention their arguments are entirely debunked due to Zero actually benefitting her (and really everyone who appeared past 64). Its flopping proved to be the most ironic twist imaginable.

Spoiler

To put it like this, Star Fox 64 kinda wasnt the best game as some still try to argue. I'm not saying it's bad, but I wont go and say it's a masterpiece either because im not one of those blind nostalgia people. I've seen someone try to act like the sales mean a lot, but when its port to the 3DS and its remake dont do well at all that really says a whole lot.

The key point is between Star Fox 64, Ocarina of Time, and Mario 64, Star Fox 64 has no other reason for performing so poorly on 3DS and with its remake Zero, while Mario 64 DS and OoT 3D easily outdoes them. During the N64 era, those three were equally as popular. To add more, Splatoon was a brand new IP and easily sold over a million in 28 days and that was on a dying system.

Aslong as people are vocal against it being the same n64 plotline is good, A sequel really is the only good idea and they need to see that, sales are good way for them to see that.

 

[TheCynicalCdr]

I wouldn't know, i haven't looked. Preaching to the choir seems pointless to me unless they'd join us in supporting her, though I think stuff like that isn't allowed on reddit.



Aslong as people are vocal against it being the same n64 plotline is good, A sequel really is the only good idea and they need to see that, sales are good way for them to see that.

From what i've noticed, Zero caused the following;

Spoiler

• Revealed that Star Fox 64 is pretty dated, as I just mentioned it kind of is a one hit wonder as there's no other reason for both its port on 3DS and Zero for selling so poorly other than that it wasnt as good. 3DS has a much higher audience (OoT3D released a month after SF643D to sell more than it) while Splatoon sold 1 million units in 28 days (4 million+ in a year), Zero only hit about 270k-300k in a month to barely hitting 500k in a year
• This is backed up even more with some articles questioning the series place in the industry. Gameinformer I honestly thought would be all over this like almost any other Nintendo game, but instead they stated that Zero is like a childhood memory you've returned to only to realize you've grown out of it.
• The fact it put the series in critical condition upon flopping, meaning one could say it was 64 that ruined everything
• Completely debunked all complaints that were used against Adventures and Assault, especially the case where some people used someone as a scapegoat
• In fact it caused a revolt against 64 as Zero is the third time they've done 64. People now want a remake of Adventures and Assault, some even mentioning the proper Assault sequel
• Not really related but Command was confirmed to not being canon at all, it did help with backfiring the reboot/retcon claim after Zero premiered at E3 2015
• Confirmed once and for all the leg myth was never true, the metal legs were boots the entire time. The only positive thing about Zero.

I might be missing more but you get the idea

 

[Smokey21]

From what i've noticed, Zero caused the following;

Spoiler

• Revealed that Star Fox 64 is pretty dated, as I just mentioned it kind of is a one hit wonder as there's no other reason for both its port on 3DS and Zero for selling so poorly other than that it wasnt as good. 3DS has a much higher audience (OoT3D released a month after SF643D to sell more than it) while Splatoon sold 1 million units in 28 days (4 million+ in a year), Zero only hit about 270k-300k in a month to barely hitting 500k in a year
• This is backed up even more with some articles questioning the series place in the industry. Gameinformer I honestly thought would be all over this like almost any other Nintendo game, but instead they stated that Zero is like a childhood memory you've returned to only to realize you've grown out of it.
• The fact it put the series in critical condition upon flopping, meaning one could say it was 64 that ruined everything
• Completely debunked all complaints that were used against Adventures and Assault, especially the case where some people used someone as a scapegoat
• In fact it caused a revolt against 64 as Zero is the third time they've done 64. People now want a remake of Adventures and Assault, some even mentioning the proper Assault sequel
• Not really related but Command was confirmed to not being canon at all, it did help with backfiring the reboot/retcon claim after Zero premiered at E3 2015
• Confirmed once and for all the leg myth was never true, the metal legs were boots the entire time. The only positive thing about Zero.

I might be missing more but you get the idea

Oh yeah I was shocked by the Star Fox 64 3DS sales as well... only a million on such a huge install base shows how much people don't want 64 redone and that even 64 die-hards are tired of seeing 64 done but think they're not.

I actually read that gameinformer review and felt the same way with the game, it's probably one of the best reviews of the game even though I was against the whole game being bad because of controls trope that was going around all the reviewers on the internet, there was more to it than that and everyone just jumped on the bad controls train.

I also never understood why people used that specific character as a scapegoat for the series' downfall... I always wondered what the logic was behind that as it is completely baseless and silly.

I actually do see a lot of people on the internet speaking out against the whole 64 reboot thing and it's refreshing to see. I also notice a lot less 64 fans are jumping to defend it as well as seeing many more people jumping at the idea of having a new adventures or assault remake. I would love to see a reimagining of adventures/assault if Nintendo would choose to do another Star Fox game.

 

[TheCynicalCdr]

Oh yeah I was shocked by the Star Fox 64 3DS sales as well... only a million on such a huge install base shows how much people don't want 64 redone and that even 64 die-hards are tired of seeing 64 done but think they're not.

I actually read that gameinformer review and felt the same way with the game, it's probably one of the best reviews of the game even though I was against the whole game being bad because of controls trope that was going around all the reviewers on the internet, there was more to it than that and everyone just jumped on the bad controls train.

I also never understood why people used that specific character as a scapegoat for the series' downfall... I always wondered what the logic was behind that as it is completely baseless and silly.

I actually do see a lot of people on the internet speaking out against the whole 64 reboot thing and it's refreshing to see. I also notice a lot less 64 fans are jumping to defend it as well as seeing many more people jumping at the idea of having a new adventures or assault remake. I would love to see a reimagining of adventures/assault if Nintendo would choose to do another Star Fox game.

It wasnt even a million when it first released, it was about I believe 250k at its first month from what I heard. That would've been a failure had the bar not dropped (IIRC the success bar was higher prior to Nintendo dropping it). At the same time too Miyamoto threatened to kill the series if 64 3D didnt do well enough, yet rehashed it anyway with Zero. The near million is how far it got after five-seven years

 

[Smokey21]

It wasnt even a million when it first released, it was about I believe 250k at its first month from what I heard. That would've been a failure had the bar not dropped (IIRC the success bar was higher prior to Nintendo dropping it). At the same time too Miyamoto threatened to kill the series if 64 3D didnt do well enough, yet rehashed it anyway with Zero. The near million is how far it got after five-seven years

That's crazy I didn't even know it was doing that poorly to have only 250k sold in the first month. But I check sales for the games once in a while I just saw the 1 mil figure I didn own a 3ds at the time so I didn't pay attention to the games at the 64 3ds remake. I wouldn't have got the game anyways as I never put 64 on the pedestal it seems to have been on. That still is a long ass time to only get 1 mil sales on such a huge install base. I also didn't know miyamoto threatened to kill the franchise if it failed. That seems kinda hard to believe. Do you got a source for that one? After seeing him say how bad he feels that star fox isn't as popular as he hoped back in October of last year that strikes me as odd, because he clearly seems to want the franchise to succeed. It's just that he needs to stop trying to experiment with the game and just give it a more natural feel. Removing characters from the game that have become a part of the franchise is going to upset more people than it is going to gain.

 

[Gagnetar]

Yea it not selling well on the 3ds means no wants it, Federation force is an even better example which is still the best thing i've seen in a while.
Also I don't know if people have noticed that this nintendo account has popped up, but notice anything interesting about the banner? https://twitter.com/NintendoVS

Not that subtle it's obviously got to be https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB50zdtXYAARsc4.jpg /s

This likely means that game is almost done, if not already done. People saying it's not going to show up, Please 25 minutes is enough time, they'll have everything together, options are never bad.

It's getting really close now, Time to see if we can celebrate our victory or work even harder for Krystal!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One other good thing about Zero, Team Star Wolf now has an actual ground vehicle. Your move Sakurai.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Well, the good news is that if Platinum makes a sequel, Krystal is almost guaranteed to return, Hashimoto said he'd love to bring her back via Twitter.

 

[Smokey21]

Well, the good news is that if Platinum makes a sequel, Krystal is almost guaranteed to return, Hashimoto said he'd love to bring her back via Twitter.

I really hope they do take a shot at a sequel to zero... maybe a retelling of adventures but with a twist. I think platinum would be able to do a game like that very well. It's a shame that zero performed the way it did, but Miyamoto is trying too hard to add his flame decals to a used car and resell it.

Also nice to see you here with us Ian! I read the old thread and saw that you were pretty active on there in the past. Always good to see old supporters coming back.

 

[IanTheGamer]

I really hope they do take a shot at a sequel to zero... maybe a retelling of adventures but with a twist. I think platinum would be able to do a game like that very well. It's a shame that zero performed the way it did, but Miyamoto is trying too hard to add his flame decals to a used car and resell it.

Also nice to see you here with us Ian! I read the old thread and saw that you were pretty active on there in the past. Always good to see old supporters coming back.

Thanks, and honestly, Miyamoto needs to retire, some people may not like that statement, but the truth of the matter is that Miyamoto isn't the creative mind, he used to be. In fact, Nintendo's newest IPs Splatoon and ARMS, two very creative takes on their respective genres, Miyamoto has had little to no involvment in their development.
And yes, Platinum would make an excellent retelling of Adventures, with Krystal getting a bigger role this time, due to Platinum's love of strong female characters.

 

[Smokey21]

No prob! I actually agree with you in that regard. Though he does seem to want the franchise to do well. It won't do well, however, if he always disregards a large amount of the fan-base by redoing the same recycled game over and over again(and cutting out new characters, like Krystal of whom drew in new fans). The game needs a new clear direction or some semblance of an actual new game(not the same trash with "new" vehicles where the only thing new was Gyrowing *cack*), I really don't care how they go about it as long as it's not the same game again.

 

[IanTheGamer]

No prob! I actually agree with you in that regard. Though he does seem to want the franchise to do well. It won't do well, however, if he always disregards a large amount of the fan-base by redoing the same recycled game over and over again(and cutting out new characters, like Krystal of whom drew in new fans). The game needs a new clear direction or some semblance of an actual new game(not the same trash with "new" vehicles where the only thing new was Gyrowing *cack*), I really don't care how they go about it as long as it's not the same game again.

It's pretty sad when a fan game (Star Fox: Event Horizon), is more ambitious then an official game, see Event Horizon is what Zero should have been.

 

[Smokey21]

It's pretty sad when a fan game (Star Fox: Event Horizon), is more ambitious then an official game, see Event Horizon is what Zero should have been.

Oh damn I forgot about Star Fox Event Horizon... I had a hell of a time binding that games buttons on xpadder to my gamecube controller to make the game feel like an authentic star fox game. yeah now that I think about it that games definitely more innovative than anything we've seen out of nintendo in the last decade for Star Fox. I just hope Nintendo doesn't attack undying for using the name Star Fox/characters. Hopefully they don't upset us for the Star Fox 25th anniversary next year in February.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Oh damn I forgot about Star Fox Event Horizon... I had a hell of a time binding that games buttons on xpadder to my gamecube controller to make the game feel like an authentic star fox game. yeah now that I think about it that games definitely more innovative than anything we've seen out of nintendo in the last decade for Star Fox. I just hope Nintendo doesn't attack undying for using the name Star Fox/characters. Hopefully they don't upset us for the Star Fox 25th anniversary next year in February.

I have a feeling they will, say wanna hear how I reworked Krystal's character to better fit the universe?

 

[Smokey21]

I have a feeling they will, say wanna hear how I reworked Krystal's character to better fit the universe?

Sure! I have a write-up thingy as well but might need a little help getting the story elements straightened out later if you'd like to help out with that at some point maybe...

 

[IanTheGamer]

Sure! I have a write-up thingy as well but might need a little help getting the story elements straightened out later if you'd like to help out with that at some point maybe...

Krystal- The sole survivor of the doomed planet Cerinia, Krystal is quite the warrior, she helped Fox defeat General Scales during the Saurian Crisis, Fox offers her a spot on the team, out of gratitude and also he was impressed by her fighting skills. (and because he harbors some feelings for her, NTHERE'SOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING SOME ROMANCE INVOLVED IN A GAME STORY, their relationship is essentially this, while they both are capable fighters on their own, they are even better working together, plus she and Fox also have many common bonds like losing loved ones, and those bonds strengthen their relationship ), Though the destruction of her home and the death of her family may have traumatized her (she has PTSD from it, causing nightmares and flashbacks), Krystal has managed to stay sane, as she now considers Star Fox to be her family. The destruction of Cerinia also lead to Krystal developing an ideology that basically is "Nobody ever should have to lose their home like I did", She is calm, collected, and quite caring. (Krystal is still quite attractive in terms of appearance but she isn't oversexualized like in Assault and Adventures, ) (Krystal still has ESP and Psychic abilities, resulting from Andross experimenting on her), Andross had telekinesis so it isn't out of place), but also has some spunk and dry wit thrown in, she can also be quite playful and flirty around Fox (the romance with her and Fox isn't as strong as in past games but it is there)
(Other parts of her character that have been reworked is that the Cerinian culture was a mix of technology and mysticism, they had advanced technology and also used mysticism, her clothing during the Saurian Crisis is different too, think warpaint Krystal from Event Horizon), Krystal happens to be a decent pilot and decent shot, but is an expert when it comes to staff and melee combat

 

[Smokey21]

Krystal- The sole survivor of the doomed planet Cerinia, Krystal is quite the warrior, she helped Fox defeat General Scales during the Saurian Crisis, Fox offers her a spot on the team, out of gratitude and also he was impressed by her fighting skills. (and because he harbors some feelings for her, NTHERE'SOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING SOME ROMANCE INVOLVED IN A GAME STORY, their relationship is essentially this, while they both are capable fighters on their own, they are even better working together, plus she and Fox also have many common bonds like losing loved ones, and those bonds strengthen their relationship ), Though the destruction of her home and the death of her family may have traumatized her (she has PTSD from it, causing nightmares and flashbacks), Krystal has managed to stay sane, as she now considers Star Fox to be her family. The destruction of Cerinia also lead to Krystal developing an ideology that basically is "Nobody ever should have to lose their home like I did", She is calm, collected, and quite caring. (Krystal is still quite attractive in terms of appearance but she isn't oversexualized like in Assault and Adventures, ) (Krystal still has ESP and Psychic abilities, resulting from Andross experimenting on her), Andross had telekinesis so it isn't out of place), but also has some spunk and dry wit thrown in, she can also be quite playful and flirty around Fox (the romance with her and Fox isn't as strong as in past games but it is there)
(Other parts of her character that have been reworked is that the Cerinian culture was a mix of technology and mysticism, they had advanced technology and also used mysticism, her clothing during the Saurian Crisis is different too, think warpaint Krystal from Event Horizon), Krystal happens to be a decent pilot and decent shot, but is an expert when it comes to staff and melee combat

Yeah that is pretty much what I was thinking for re-introducing the character(basically let's get her back with feeling!). I totally agree with you there when you say there's nothing wrong with romance in games... just don't make it overly dramatic it like command did or have too much of it around, or it will take away too much from the game(i also don't think it was too bad in assault in terms of romance, there was just that scene on Sauria, which I personally though was pretty funny. Also, the random "I'll cover Fox" lines of dialogue through the game).

I think that an open world Star Fox game would be so pretty ballin'. They can try to divide the game up into missions where you have some ground missions hidden throughout the world and you can just start them whenever. The types of missions would be either ground or air/space missions and you would use certain characters to meet the mission criteria/specialties. Plus an open world game where you can switch between foot and space craft in the vein of Star Fox would be pretty cool.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Yeah that is pretty much what I was thinking for re-introducing the character(basically let's get her back with feeling!). I totally agree with you there when you say there's nothing wrong with romance in games... just don't make it overly dramatic it like command did or have too much of it around, or it will take away too much from the game(i also don't think it was too bad in assault in terms of romance, there was just that scene on Sauria, which I personally though was pretty funny. Also, the random "I'll cover Fox" lines of dialogue through the game).

I think that an open world Star Fox game would be so pretty ballin'. They can try to divide the game up into missions where you have some ground missions hidden throughout the world and you can just start them whenever. The types of missions would be either ground or air/space missions and you would use certain characters to meet the mission criteria/specialties. Plus an open world game where you can switch between foot and space craft in the vein of Star Fox would be pretty cool.

Even side quests would potentially be cool

 

[Smokey21]

Even side quests would potentially be cool

yeah that would be!

I also was going to add this in my last post but I forgot to...

Also telepathic/empathic characters are usually less sensitive because of the nature of their powers. Being around emotions a lot you have to have a certain level of control. The fact that Krystal can get over the destruction of her planet(or whatever happened to it) and the loss of her parents is also a sure sign that she is that kind of character and by nature... VERY strong-willed.

 

[IanTheGamer]

yeah that would be!

I also was going to add this in my last post but I forgot to...

Also telepathic/empathic characters are usually less sensitive because of the nature of their powers. Being around emotions a lot you have to have a certain level of control. The fact that Krystal can get over the destruction of her planet(or whatever happened to it) and the loss of her parents is also a sure sign that she is that kind of character and by nature VERY strong-willed.

Meaning she is a great female lead,

 

[Smokey21]

Meaning she is a great female lead,

Pretty much yeah. Now something needs to be done with that!

 

[IanTheGamer]

Pretty much yeah. Now something needs to be done with that!

Indeed, what would be some great side quests?

 

[Smokey21]

Indeed, what would be some great side quests?

The quests would depend on what planet/planets you're focusing on at the time. Maybe have some "Supply Run" Missions where you raid enemy strongholds(with a boss at the end) to take enemy resources back to the Great Fox for upgrades to arwings/landmasters etc or upgrade your characters on foot weaponry. Or for Krystal you can find ancient relics/spirits in caves and ruins that give clues to her past/enhance her staff and powers(psionic and elemental). And just general side quests to help the populace of whatever planet you're on that gives materials/currency that you can trade at a certain value to get credits that you trade on the Great Fox for upgrades/ammo or combat augments for the other characters. Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. do you have any?

 

[ryuu seika]

No more metal legs? Zero, why? Why would you ruin one of the most intriguing mysteries of the series?

Personally, I think we need to keep some elements of Star Fox's rail shooter origins going forward because, like it or not, they have defined the franchise for a long time.

That's not to say that it can't go open world. Multiple routes and exploration was a major factor, even in 64, and it's only due to misfortune and technical limitations that their part wasn't greater. I just think that it would be foolish to completely disregard the portion of the fanbase built on that as the series progresses. A careful balance needs to be struck between freedom and past gameplay.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

No more metal legs? Zero, why? Why would you ruin one of the most intriguing mysteries of the series?

Personally, I think we need to keep some elements of Star Fox's rail shooter origins going forward because, like it or not, they have defined the franchise for a long time.

That's not to say that it can't go open world. Multiple routes and exploration was a major factor, even in 64, and it's only due to misfortune and technical limitations that their part wasn't greater. I just think that it would be foolish to completely disregard the portion of the fanbase built on that as the series progresses. A careful balance needs to be struck between freedom and past gameplay.

I think the best idea would be to have an open world but have proper objective based rail missions too.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

No more metal legs? Zero, why? Why would you ruin one of the most intriguing mysteries of the series?

Spoiler: They never existed in the first place. It was just something that a writer for a licensed magazine made up, and some people mistakenly took it as gospel and propagated it.

It was never any more valid than the claims made up by a different magazine that the Star Fox Team were half-animal/half-human hybrid pilot experiments.

I must admit, it was interesting seeing Miyamoto himself shoot the ridiculous theories down, though - his answer was basically "We just wanted to give them cool-looking boots, and that's all they ever were.". That is to say, the obvious answer.

Personally, I think we need to keep some elements of Star Fox's rail shooter origins going forward because, like it or not, they have defined the franchise for a long time.

At its core, Star Fox seems to have been very much inspired by the ship scenes from the likes of Star Wars - you take that out, and you're only going to get Star Wars Episode I.

 

[ryuu seika]

Spoiler: They never existed in the first place. It was just something that a writer for a licensed magazine made up, and some people mistakenly took it as gospel and propagated it.

Oh, I knew it was mere speculation. I just also thought that the conspiracy theories surrounding the fact that these "boots" were too narrow to fit legs in were really interesting. So much so that explicit debunking feels like an unnecessary major buzzkill.

At its core, Star Fox seems to have been very much inspired by the ship scenes from the likes of Star Wars - you take that out, and you're only going to get Star Wars Episode I.

Star Fox Episode 1 Racer you say?

 

[Smokey21]

Personally, I think we need to keep some elements of Star Fox's rail shooter origins going forward because, like it or not, they have defined the franchise for a long time.gameplay.

I wasn't saying to remove on-rails segments from the game at all, I was only going over some concepts, if I wanted on-rails segments removed I would have said so in a disclaimer at the start(getting fresh ideas fleshed out is hard enough as it is xD). I was thinking they can actually be part of the game still like side quests. here you would try to get a high score(so the high score fanatics are appeased) and have multiple tiers of reward for completing the objective at certain skill levels, so if someone is skilled at the on-rails segments they can get a lot of the best stuff in the game. The game can also add some cool space missions that you can access from the Great Fox. Probably have a random selection of missions pop up when you visit and every now and then you will see a rare one that's really good, but can only show up if you hit a certain point in the game(Maybe have rewards scale based on how far into the game you are and have them show up any time?). I think that would be a cool idea for adding new on-rails missions maybe with a few all-range mode segments similar to how Zero did it.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Oh, I knew it was mere speculation. I just also thought that the conspiracy theories surrounding the fact that these "boots" were too narrow to fit legs in were really interesting. So much so that explicit debunking feels like an unnecessary major buzzkill.

Hah, you'll have to pardon me for being a bit of a killjoy, then! Those conspiracy theories were always something that I found a bit daft, and they've long been a pet-peeve of mine. (I'm actually glad that they're over and done with - sorry! )

I mean, the whole thing only came about because the visual style originated from some small Thunderbirds-inspired scale-models and puppets, and it was clear from looking at them that it was simply easier to make them that way and have them look "cool", as Miyamoto later confirmed. The basic principle of Occam's Razor proved completely accurate in the end, as it was always going to.

Star Fox Episode 1 Racer you say?

I actually would not mind a Star Fox racing game as a spin-off title. I would happily buy that.

 

[ryuu seika]

I wasn't saying to remove on-rails segments from the game at all...

Sorry, I never meant to imply that you were, I was merely stating that the series is in an interesting situation that will make progression a difficult balance.

Star Fox is one of the last remnants of an old sub-genre that there is definitely still call for but, at the same time, that sub-genre was born out of limitations and restricting the franchise to that gameplay amounts to holding it to the same limitations it had in the 90s. Limitations that were, even then, holding back it's full potential. And, with hardware and the usage thereof having improved massively since, such limitations are now glaringly obvious when compared to the rest of the market.

Star Fox cannot afford to be a purely on rails shooter any longer when the video game market as a whole is now so focused on player freedom.

The franchise has, of course, branched out from its roots in various ways over the years but has never realised its creators' original vision, or even really come close to that open world idea. And, with each new release that fails to realise that vision, that vision gets further from the reality of what Star Fox is.

At this point, Star Fox cannot simply shun its linear gameplay style without losing many of its old fans as it would be a massive departure from everything it has been up to now.

As I see it, the series needs to work out how to seemlessly fuse an open overworld with encounters that resemble it's past boss fights and a majority of actual missions focusing on the classic rails style.

 

[ryuu seika]

I actually would not mind a Star Fox racing game as a spin-off title. I would happily buy that.

Would make for a very exciting not-F-Zero as I see it. Probably best saved until after they recement the main series though.

 

[Smokey21]

The franchise has, of course, branched out from its roots in various ways over the years but has never realised its creators' original vision, or even really come close to that open world idea. And, with each new release that fails to realise that vision, that vision gets further from the reality of what Star Fox is.

Well that's the sad thing. Adventures was made by rareware at nearly the worst time possible(only thing worse would be if microsoft bought them before they were able to finish working on adventures and we lost Krystal entirely). And Assault was made at the VERY end of the gamecubes cycle, so everyone was getting new consoles and playing those consoles when it came out(at least the wii was still backwards compatible), and command was... command. So either way Star Fox has just suffered from bad timing and company mismanagement. It is a franchise that has suffered from the worst luck imaginable. Hopefully that changes in the future.

 

[TheCynicalCdr]

That's crazy I didn't even know it was doing that poorly to have only 250k sold in the first month. But I check sales for the games once in a while I just saw the 1 mil figure I didn own a 3ds at the time so I didn't pay attention to the games at the 64 3ds remake. I wouldn't have got the game anyways as I never put 64 on the pedestal it seems to have been on. That still is a long *** time to only get 1 mil sales on such a huge install base. I also didn't know miyamoto threatened to kill the franchise if it failed. That seems kinda hard to believe. Do you got a source for that one? After seeing him say how bad he feels that star fox isn't as popular as he hoped back in October of last year that strikes me as odd, because he clearly seems to want the franchise to succeed. It's just that he needs to stop trying to experiment with the game and just give it a more natural feel. Removing characters from the game that have become a part of the franchise is going to upset more people than it is going to gain.

I know it's VGChartz and that some say it's not that reliable, but this is how Zero performed in the first year, why Splatoon is compared is due to the fact that it was a massive success on a system that was dying. In other words, assuming some tried to say that Zero failed because it was on a dying console, that's not an excuse when Splatoon came out before it and succeeded so well. What backs this up even more is that ZHugeEX, a gaming analyst reported how Zero flopped so bad that it ended up being sold at a major loss, I think it was 130k or more that was lost but he stated that Zero may be the game that'll kill the series, which due to it being a remake of 64 you can hold 64 accountable for it.



And according to this I think I was off, 64 3D performed much worse or a little better than I claimed, but notice how after the amount of time that passed since these two released that Ocarina of Time outclassed it? It already beat it when it came out a month after 64 3D did, but that right there says a lot about 64 not really being as good. Remember, this was on a system that has a much higher population than the WiiU. Just in case too, these are their own sales numbers, their original N64 numbers are not tied to this, in fact that only proves my point entirely.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Remember, this was on a system that has a much higher population than the WiiU.

Just to add to that, the 3DS was the highest-selling console of its generation (and is still selling and experiencing unprecedented growth), whether that's handheld or home-console.

Star Fox 64 3D was added to the Nintendo Selects budget range a year or two ago, but that doesn't appear to have helped it too much, as far as I know.

It's worth pointing out that, for as much as people talk about how Star Fox 64 sold well in its day, a lot of that would have been inherited from the game before it, as this often happens with sequels. The original Star Fox, for the SNES, sold around 4 million copies (certain sites incorrectly state this as 3 million), and Star Fox 64 sold around 3 million (certain sites incorrectly claim that it sold 4 million). That's amazing retention, but we can probably look at the sharp downturn in sales immediately after Star Fox 64 to get more of an idea of its influence.

 

[Smokey21]

I know it's VGChartz and that some say it's not that reliable, but this is how Zero performed in the first year, why Splatoon is compared is due to the fact that it was a massive success on a system that was dying. In other words, assuming some tried to say that Zero failed because it was on a dying console, that's not an excuse when Splatoon came out before it and succeeded so well. What backs this up even more is that ZHugeEX, a gaming analyst reported how Zero flopped so bad that it ended up being sold at a major loss, I think it was 130k or more that was lost but he stated that Zero may be the game that'll kill the series, which due to it being a remake of 64 you can hold 64 accountable for it.

View attachment 130614 View attachment 130615

And according to this I think I was off, 64 3D performed much worse than I claimed, but notice how after the amount of time that passed since these two released that Ocarina of Time outclassed it? It already beat it when it came out a month after 64 3D did, but that right there says a lot about 64 not really being as good. Remember, this was on a system that has a much higher population than the WiiU. Just in case too, these are their own sales numbers, their original N64 numbers are not tied to this, in fact that only proves my point entirely.

View attachment 130617

Sadly you have to cite VGChartz because no other site publishes the sales data. I like the 2200% increase around week 9 for Star Fox 64 3ds... is that when Miyamoto threatened to kill the franchise? lol

Also... when zero came out there was already talk by Nintendo of discontinuing support for the wii u(I will try to find a source... gimme a few mins). And the entire internet was saying nintendo was dead and all that. I do actually know a few people that got a wii u to play Zero and loved it at first then regretted it realizing how short the game actually was even for 100% completion.

And yeah I don't know the exact amount of wiiu's/3ds install bases there were but I know it's at least more than double... maybe even quadruple. Which does show that there just isn't the interest in 64 remakes.

 

[TheCynicalCdr]

Just to add to that, the 3DS was the highest-selling console of its generation (and is still selling and experiencing unprecedented growth), whether that's handheld or home-console.

Star Fox 64 3D was added to the Nintendo Selects budget range a year or two ago, but that doesn't appear to have helped it too much, as far as I know.

The selects from my guess didnt help it that much, not to mention it's only in either just Europe or Japan, or both. It's still $40 in the US that even a used physical copy of it is around that much due to it being discontinued. I managed to get mine used for $22 years ago. As for this downturn, I honestly believe it was due to the genre becoming obsolete entirely. You cannot blame a game for it because believe it or not Zelda was actually dropping that it didnt take until BOTW to turn it around entirely. Another example is Fire Emblem, i'm no fan of it but I heard about how the series was failing so hard that Awakening was the very last attempt that if it failed, that would've been it entirely. Though Awakening did save it, i'm hearing it's dropping again after how Echoes did.

 

[Wolfie557]

Yeah im sorry but until nintendo can prove to me my time and money will be worth it i will never get into the starfox series.

I see great potential for the games and yet its far from realised. I used to have a bookmark of when someone wrote paragaphs on this on vgchartz and now im regretting getting rid f that bookmark. It had many ideas that eould appeal to newcomers and the older fans.

And anyone who only wants starfox to be like 64 or zero in the year 2017+ then to put it nicely go and buy those mediocre games if you havent already and let others dream in peace.

 

[Smokey21]

Yeah im sorry but until nintendo can prove to me my time and money will be worth it i will never get into the starfox series.

I see great potential for the games and yet its far from realised. I used to have a bookmark of when someone wrote paragaphs on this on vgchartz and now im regretting getting rid f that bookmark. It had many ideas that eould appeal to newcomers and the older fans.

And anyone who only wants starfox to be like 64 or zero in the year 2017+ then to put it nicely go and buy those mediocre games if you havent already and let others dream in peace.

Sadly I am pretty much in the same boat as you there because I really don't want another copy pasta of SF 64. I do want a new open world game that can potentially reuse on-rail segments to please people that want that playstyle still around. But that genre is all but gone and Star Fox is the only franchise seemingly holding onto it. It can't stay strictly that if it is going to ever be fully realized.

I would like to see some of those if you do manage to find them. Would they be on Smashboards somewhere? or some other forum?

 

[Wolfie557]

Sadly I am pretty much in the same boat as you there because I really don't want another copy pasta of SF 64. I do want a new open world game that can potentially reuse on-rail segments to please people that want that playstyle still around. But that genre is all but gone and Star Fox is the only franchise seemingly holding onto it. It can't stay strictly that if it is going to ever be fully realized.

I would like to see some of those if you do manage to find them. Would they be on Smashboards somewhere? or some other forum?

Its somewhere lost forever in the vgchartz forums pile and unfortunately there isnt a search option and i cant remember who did it.