Team Rocket Mafia from the Disco Room: DGames Reject Copy

[Purple]

go by the kill that mafia does.

"why would they die?"

"who did that victim pressure?"

etc.

 

[Purple]

playstyle through this game, or generally what is being discussed in this game. playstyle can be picked up quickly depending on what you read for.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

You gain infinite more information from a lynch. Townies do not have equal worth, even if they each have a vote. There's a reason there are mislynches, it's because townies play scummy. In the end, is it such a bad thing to rid of a weak link like that? It's cut throat but we gain infinite more information from a lynch than from a no lynch.

And if you start pointing out playstyles, one can adapt what may be scummy behavior to townie behavior. They can pick up on logical patterns and what people are deeming town. Discussing people's playstyles only serves to create confusion in my opinion and can cloud our judgement badly.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 203
User Name Posts
Junglefever 40
Roxy 33
Vrael 22
fragbait 16
Frown 14
RocketPSIence 13
Marvin Grossberg 11
Mattnumbers 11
Spire VI 9
-Rei- 8
ohaiduhg 8
8
Ndaydaddy 4
Lythium 4
Exn 2 (Replacement)

I would like to know whats up with Nday, but I'd like to point out that if a scum posts fluff (even cleverly hidden fluff) that can disorganize town and make us miss real points, so personally I would say that the people in both extremes are a bit more suspicious than those in the center, although that's obviously only a single factor.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

You bring up fluff, so isn't it to say that the list you posted is incredibly misleading? From those how do you discern what is a good post and a bad one. Posting that list doesn't really tell us anyhting.

 

[ohaiduhg]

Mafia will always kill a townie.

I don't have much to say right now, I'm just lurking and seeing if anyone acts suspicious.

This sounds like camping to me.

Doug, you forgot to answer how you'll get around that difficulty.

Luck is all I can think of. It will always be a coin flip. At least, until maybe towards the end when there is everything laid out from 100 pages of posts and several lynches for reasons and such. Sorry, sometimes I get so caught up in answering one thing I'll need a reminder.

I'd prod, but there's legit 502 Johns.​

Yeah that is seriously killing me. It's like 5 pages to read instead of a page here and there.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I'm going to say this again for the new players that weren't in the first Disco Room mafia.

Your vote is your greatest weapon. You use it to kill, but you can also use it to prod and poke information and reactions. There's no real reason to be hestitant with your vote, IMO, unless there are special circumstances (Person you want to vote is one away from being lynched and we havent heard a claim, etc)

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Also, I hear allt his talk about gathering information on people and stuff, but no one is actually doing that. What's up guys? If information is waht you want, why are not not seeking it?

 

[ohaiduhg]

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 203
User Name Posts
Junglefever 40
Roxy 33
Vrael 22
fragbait 16
Frown 14
RocketPSIence 13
Marvin Grossberg 11
Mattnumbers 11
Spire VI 9
-Rei- 8
ohaiduhg 8
8
Ndaydaddy 4
Lythium 4
Exn 2 (Replacement)

I would like to know whats up with Nday, but I'd like to point out that if a scum posts fluff (even cleverly hidden fluff) that can disorganize town and make us miss real points, so personally I would say that the people in both extremes are a bit more suspicious than those in the center, although that's obviously only a single factor.

This list would be better with "How many questions asked/answered?" and "average character count." There is double posting because of no-editting and there is a flow of pressure in this game.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

It doesnt matter how many questions someone answers or asks either. its the quality of the answer and utility of the question. Average character count is also stilll a pre ty bad way to guage it

Alot of you guys are asking for information, but not trying to obtain it, why? I can sit here and ask allt he questino si want and they can give me MY answers, but do they give you what you want to know? maybe or maybe not. If you guys want more you need to take a proactive role in this and don't be lead by one or two people. It's the pied piper theory. One person could lead you all to your deaths.

 

[Frown]

Frown, I'd like this answered

You mean if anyone CLAIMS to be scum? I don't know how that would be help the mafia at all, but sure. If anyone roleclaims as a mafia member, we lynch that person.

Also, the reason why I don't want us to be too quick on votes is because it's Day 1 and we have very little to go by.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

No one claims mafia, that's silly.

Hypothetical, frown. Say we have someone at L-1 and then they claim they are the doctor. By your rule we only have 6 hours till the deadline. What do we do?

There's nothing wrong with using our votes to pressure people we want information, but we can still be careful. another way to get reads is to view voting patterns,

 

[Frown]

We adjust to the situation. By the end of Day 1, we presumably have enough material to lynch a person.

Of course we can throw out votes at the moment, I'm saying we shouldn't come to a conclusion until later on.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

do we keep the doc or get rid of him. keep in mind that things such as mafia aligned doctors exist. so even if he is telling the truth about his role he can sitll be mafia (this goes for alot of roles as well)

 

[Frown]

IT DEPENDS.

I'm trying to say this over and over. If we wait, we will probably have more posts for the presumably scummy doctor to screw up, and thus, we lynch him. If he has helped town during the day, we don't.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

You werent saying what it depended on until now. That's what i wanted to know.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Also remember, mafias going to help town




....towards the wrong lynch. The best mafia is the towniest mafia.

 

[-Rei-]

Luck is all I can think of. It will always be a coin flip. At least, until maybe towards the end when there is everything laid out from 100 pages of posts and several lynches for reasons and such. Sorry, sometimes I get so caught up in answering one thing I'll need a reminder.

why do you think its going to be based off luck?

like jungle stated the town's vote is the most important weapon.

you can help prevent a mislynch by asking questions that will benefit town.

 

[ohaiduhg]

You seriously can't read anyone. Junglefever is asking questions to help Town, but could easily be a mafioso. They are all undercover and know each other. This is like poker.

He is betting because he has something!... or is he betting trying to bluff people out? Is someone just "checking" every time the bet comes around because he has nothing or is he just trying to survive because he has everything in his favor? Someone waiting for someone to bet big to raise that person? There is the luck element of really wanting something to happen at the last minute, too, or just waiting for that moment for vindication of an assumption. In the end, there is a huge amount of luck clouding everything. All of the characteristics and players everything is just like poker. Texas Hold 'Em, anyways.

 

[Purple]

Nice metaphor.

Rei, while you can help prevent a mislynch, you can also see who continues to vote on someone even after such claims, it unveils scumminess.

Ohaiduhg, you say that this is just like texas hold em poker, by this logic, should we just fold this hand (random lynch) and take our new hand (extra information) to find more success?

 

[Lythium]

A random lynch never helps town. Actually, I would like to hear more about this from ohaidug too.

'Sup Roxy? What are your thoughts?

 

[Purple]

My thoughts? First off a random lynch 'can' help town, just has a light percentage of doing so.

On questioning
- Generally just ask questions, more questions. That's all i can really do.

On pressuring
- I would rather keep pressuring to a minimum, while helpful on a light manner, we can potentially be pulling a PR into the spotlight, which is never good on D1 of all days.

On lynching
- Let's lynch someone, however i'm pretty impatient and i'd rather just kill someone straight up instead of taking a week to do so.

Lythium now that you're here, i'm just curious, do you feel you'll be more active than you were in Flavorless mafia?

 

[ohaiduhg]

Continuing the analogy into the current situation:
I think, as of right now, we have our 2 cards, but we are still betting before the "flop" (the first 3 cards laid out on the table for anyone who doesn't know the game.) This is the part at which we read reactions to those cards. Since this is over the internet, we rely on posts. Not sure exactly what from there.

 

[:034:]

I apologize in advance if I am missing during plot points. Timezones might make it hard for me to partake in specifically heated discussion. Luckily, this seems to be a much more calm game than the other ones I have participated in on SmashNL.

I'm going to say this again for the new players that weren't in the first Disco Room mafia.

Your vote is your greatest weapon. You use it to kill, but you can also use it to prod and poke information and reactions. There's no real reason to be hestitant with your vote, IMO, unless there are special circumstances (Person you want to vote is one away from being lynched and we havent heard a claim, etc)

In the beginning of the game, I would say so. However, being overly aggressive can also lead town in a wrong direction. I would like to add that somebody who votes a lot isn't immediately more townie, at least not in my eyes.

Also, I'd like to ask you, Jungle, even though it's a little early into Day 1: Are there people you'd be ready to lynch right now? Answering with yes or no will do fine.

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 203
User Name Posts
Junglefever 40
Roxy 33
Vrael 22
fragbait 16
Frown 14
RocketPSIence 13
Marvin Grossberg 11
Mattnumbers 11
Spire VI 9
-Rei- 8
ohaiduhg 8
8
Ndaydaddy 4
Lythium 4
Exn 2 (Replacement)

I would like to know whats up with Nday, but I'd like to point out that if a scum posts fluff (even cleverly hidden fluff) that can disorganize town and make us miss real points, so personally I would say that the people in both extremes are a bit more suspicious than those in the center, although that's obviously only a single factor.

I'm wondering WHY you posted this. Amount of posts doesn't dictate who is scum or even who is suspicious. If anything, those who post a LOT can easily be seen as scum pretending to be hard-working town.

You mean if anyone CLAIMS to be scum? I don't know how that would be help the mafia at all, but sure. If anyone roleclaims as a mafia member, we lynch that person.

I would like to add that nobody would just claim scum unless there were specific motives. I certainly don't expect a Jester role in here (which are trying to get lynched), but we must keep our options and minds open to other possibilities and ideas.

You seriously can't read anyone. Junglefever is asking questions to help Town, but could easily be a mafioso. They are all undercover and know each other. This is like poker.

He is betting because he has something!... or is he betting trying to bluff people out? Is someone just "checking" every time the bet comes around because he has nothing or is he just trying to survive because he has everything in his favor? Someone waiting for someone to bet big to raise that person? There is the luck element of really wanting something to happen at the last minute, too, or just waiting for that moment for vindication of an assumption. In the end, there is a huge amount of luck clouding everything. All of the characteristics and players everything is just like poker. Texas Hold 'Em, anyways.

What are you trying to say here? I'm no poker player, but we have to take a lot of things into account - first of all that poker is a game based on cards that are randomly distributed to the players. It might seem similiar to roles in a mafia game, but it certainly is very different.
In Poker, you use the cards to your advantage - but if you get really unlucky you have the option to wait for the next turn. In mafia, you take what you get and try to win with it: no matter what kind of role you have, there's always an equal possibility of either of the two factions winning (or at least, there should be), but it's up to how the players act, take decisions and think about the game that they win. It's not a 50-50 chance, otherwise we might as well toss a coin.

I admit this is actually rather irrelevant. I found it peculiar that you would compare the two games with a basis in 'luck'.

One more thing from a previous page:

Spire please enlighten me of your views on Absurdism and the human condition, it's incredibly important in order for the game to advance.

How exactly?

 

[Lythium]

My thoughts? First off a random lynch 'can' help town, just has a light percentage of doing so.

On questioning
- Generally just ask questions, more questions. That's all i can really do.

On pressuring
- I would rather keep pressuring to a minimum, while helpful on a light manner, we can potentially be pulling a PR into the spotlight, which is never good on D1 of all days.

On lynching
- Let's lynch someone, however i'm pretty impatient and i'd rather just kill someone straight up instead of taking a week to do so.

Lythium now that you're here, i'm just curious, do you feel you'll be more active than you were in Flavorless mafia?

Thanks for posting Roxy, but there's a contradiction here. You say you don't really want to put pressure on anyone, but you're okay with going for a lynch right off? Would you care to explain that? I'm just curious as to what you mean by that.

And yes, I will try to be more active in this game than Flavourless. There was a lot of stuff and nonsense irl, but hopefully that's over with.

 

[Purple]

It generally is luck

Let's say someone says something that's contradictory, or scummy. That doesn't entirely mean that that person is scum, or town. While we can get basic reads by how the person reacts, how much they bet on the table (what they claim, what they say, or how they answer a question), generally speaking we can be walking into a trap, all of it has to be taken into account.

@lythium - Just because i don't want to pressure someone, doesn't mean i won't under certain circumstances. I just don't like pressuring people for no unnecessary reason.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

A random lynch never helps town. Actually, I would like to hear more about this from ohaidug too.

'Sup Roxy? What are your thoughts?

I agree, random lynching is dumb lol.

For the first day, Lyth, what do you think about no lynch vs lynch?

 

[:034:]

It generally is luck

Let's say someone says something that's contradictory, or scummy. That doesn't entirely mean that that person is scum, or town. While we can get basic reads by how the person reacts, how much they bet on the table (what they claim, what they say, or how they answer a question), generally speaking we can be walking into a trap, all of it has to be taken into account.

To be honest, it sounds to me like you're doing nothing but making excuses for yourself. Are you scared of making contradictions accidently and being found out about it? Townies shouldn't have contradictions in their posts, they don't have anything to lie about, nothing to hide.

Saying we could be walking into a trap is a perfect setup for a WIFOM. "Maybe they know we'd do that, so we'd better do something else. But if they knew that we'd know that, they'd go with the original plan..." And so on. It doesn't bring us anywhere.

 

[Spire]

How exactly?

I answered this a few pages back.

 

[Lythium]

I agree, random lynching is dumb lol.

For the first day, Lyth, what do you think about no lynch vs lynch?

For day one, I think no lynch is almost always the best option for several reasons:

1) Town doesn't accidentally kill one of their own precious number.
2) Town gets a better idea of who's suspicious after the events of day/night one, based on who mafia decides to kill.
3) Town has a significantly slim chance of lynching scum on day one (unless it's super obvious).

One might argue that it gives mafia a free kill, but like I said, I think it's a better option than lynching an innocent townie. I also think day one is the only acceptable day to vote no lynch because after that, I think it's unnecessary. The events of day one should give town some legit suspicions at that point.

 

[Lythium]

It generally is luck

Let's say someone says something that's contradictory, or scummy. That doesn't entirely mean that that person is scum, or town. While we can get basic reads by how the person reacts, how much they bet on the table (what they claim, what they say, or how they answer a question), generally speaking we can be walking into a trap, all of it has to be taken into account.

@lythium - Just because i don't want to pressure someone, doesn't mean i won't under certain circumstances. I just don't like pressuring people for no unnecessary reason.

But you're okay with lynching someone right away? That doesn't make sense.

Roxy, my point is contradictions are inherently important to mafia. A contradiction means you're lying somewhere. Why would a townie lie? Answer me that.

 

[ohaiduhg]

I apologize in advance if I am missing during plot points. Timezones might make it hard for me to partake in specifically heated discussion. Luckily, this seems to be a much more calm game than the other ones I have participated in on SmashNL.



In the beginning of the game, I would say so. However, being overly aggressive can also lead town in a wrong direction. I would like to add that somebody who votes a lot isn't immediately more townie, at least not in my eyes.

Also, I'd like to ask you, Jungle, even though it's a little early into Day 1: Are there people you'd be ready to lynch right now? Answering with yes or no will do fine.



I'm wondering WHY you posted this. Amount of posts doesn't dictate who is scum or even who is suspicious. If anything, those who post a LOT can easily be seen as scum pretending to be hard-working town.



I would like to add that nobody would just claim scum unless there were specific motives. I certainly don't expect a Jester role in here (which are trying to get lynched), but we must keep our options and minds open to other possibilities and ideas.



What are you trying to say here? I'm no poker player, but we have to take a lot of things into account - first of all that poker is a game based on cards that are randomly distributed to the players. It might seem similiar to roles in a mafia game, but it certainly is very different.
In Poker, you use the cards to your advantage - but if you get really unlucky you have the option to wait for the next turn. In mafia, you take what you get and try to win with it: no matter what kind of role you have, there's always an equal possibility of either of the two factions winning (or at least, there should be), but it's up to how the players act, take decisions and think about the game that they win. It's not a 50-50 chance, otherwise we might as well toss a coin.

I admit this is actually rather irrelevant. I found it peculiar that you would compare the two games with a basis in 'luck'.

One more thing from a previous page:



How exactly?

It's weird and complicated. Both games are just heavily luck driven. The only difference is you have some blind team work elements or whatever. There are the passive people laying low, the big betters, people on the verge of losing, etc. We all can't tell things, at first. Then, later on, it becomes a little more obvious, but, still, is luck. There is no sure-fire way to win. It's something secretly given to everyone and we play off our own givens and hope our guesses work out in the end. Sorry if it comes off weirdly. Sometimes I have trouble articulating myself. There is much ramble.

@Random Lynch

In this game, we do get to see the role after someone is lynched right?

 

[:034:]

It's weird and complicated. Both games are just heavily luck driven. The only difference is you have some blind team work elements or whatever. There are the passive people laying low, the big betters, people on the verge of losing, etc. We all can't tell things, at first. Then, later on, it becomes a little more obvious, but, still, is luck. There is no sure-fire way to win. It's something secretly given to everyone and we play off our own givens and hope our guesses work out in the end. Sorry if it comes off weirdly. Sometimes I have trouble articulating myself. There is much ramble.

No worries, I get what you're saying now. To me, it just seemed like you'd throw the game to the dogs by saying it's so heavily influenced by luck - but you're right. There's luck, but as with poker, a good player would pick up on things and make it easy to win against worse players. And indeed, there's no 100% way to win a Mafia game.

 

[ohaiduhg]

Townies shouldn't have contradictions in their posts, they don't have anything to lie about, nothing to hide.

Contradictions can come from ignorance, too.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Contradictions can also come from light of new evidence or ideas.

 

[Lythium]

Absolutely, but I've yet to see those.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

For day one, I think no lynch is almost always the best option for several reasons:

1) Town doesn't accidentally kill one of their own precious number.
2) Town gets a better idea of who's suspicious after the events of day/night one, based on who mafia decides to kill.
3) Town has a significantly slim chance of lynching scum on day one (unless it's super obvious).

One might argue that it gives mafia a free kill, but like I said, I think it's a better option than lynching an innocent townie. I also think day one is the only acceptable day to vote no lynch because after that, I think it's unnecessary. The events of day one should give town some legit suspicions at that point.

2 is based largely off the assumption that there are any connections at all the the person mafia kills. I can think of a few people right now that if mafia were to kill (and we were to no lynch) we would still be in the dark with almost nothing to work with still.

"super obvious" is a pretty subjective term. What's incredibly obvious to me might not be to you or to fragbait or nido.

I honestly believe that if you think you have the scent of scum then you shouldn't let go until someone brings compelling evidence forth that says either 'hey someone else is scum because of x y z' and its stronger than your reasoning a b and c.

I'm going to say it again. Everyone has a vote, that does NOT make their worth equal. Everyone is contributing different thigns to the game and varying amounts. People have different roles and thus could be vital to the loss or the win for town. If I find someone that doesn't match up to the standards of what I think should be townie play, I'm going to press for their lynch. In the long run, in my mind, we're creating a stronger team of remaining townies even if we lynch of one of our own by accident. And if we happen to hit scum as well then hooray!

I don't advocate lynching of the useless and helpful past D1, but honestly, there's nothing worse than having someone being totally useless, then claim doctor or some important role so you're sitting there like 'well ****, our only clear sucks, meaning mafia might just leave him in the game so we have to deal with 'well is he really town PR or not'"

 

[Purple]

To be honest, it sounds to me like you're doing nothing but making excuses for yourself. Are you scared of making contradictions accidently and being found out about it? Townies shouldn't have contradictions in their posts, they don't have anything to lie about, nothing to hide.

Saying we could be walking into a trap is a perfect setup for a WIFOM. "Maybe they know we'd do that, so we'd better do something else. But if they knew that we'd know that, they'd go with the original plan..." And so on. It doesn't bring us anywhere.

Actually, yes i am scared of making contradictions, generally because my view might change from one page to the next, dependent on my mood. Which would seem scummy to anyone who has a straightforward view.

it sounds like we're bickering over something that generally changes from game to game, from what i noticed, we lynched in the game i hosted, and town lost (we killed townie, then lost cop, bad metagaming, etc. Last game in Flavorless we no lynch and won.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

lol and in PLENTY of games ive played her we've lynched day 1 and won. Bad anecdotal evidence is bad.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Not just lynched d1 but lynched a townie by mistake.