Taunt Transformation Explained

[StarScarJenova]

I hope that me creating a whole new topic doesn't bother anyone, but I looked feverishly through all the other posts and couldn't find anything, I wonder how many others are frustrated with this. Anywho, I decided to start testing this out to see what exactly needs to be done and what we're all doing wrong and here are my findings.

The actual input is as follows: U=up, D=down

U,D U,D U,D U,D

Seems like a lot, and given the actual frame window that you have to execute it, I believe it to be around 8 frames, if we actually go with the 32 fps. If you think of Smash as a 60 FPS game than it would be 15-16 frames for the execution. Doesn't seem like much, a quarter of a second, but it's doable. The frame window might be more leniant. Considering I can't debug I can't say without a doubt, I can give a pretty specific approximation according to the taunt animation, however.

For Up taunt the input must be complete before Samus swipes her hand away from her visor.
For Down taunt the input must be complete before Samus turns to cover her back.
For Side taunt the input must be complete before the halo appears before her arm cannon.

The way I was able to come to these conclusions, after trying the U,D,U notation previously given, was by going into Training and putting the game speed at 1/4. You can see how specific, or not, the input has to be.

Also, I found that as long as you get the four Ups and the four Downs in, consecutively, within the alloted time you're at liberty to press anything else, for example:

U, B, D, U, A, D, etc...

The other buttons don't screw with the input whatsoever. I was able to get the tranformation off doing U, b,b, D, four times at 1/4 speed and still pull it off.


Now, how practical the transformation is, I don't know. I would still rather start off the math with ZZS, but the stark change in play style might benefit. Times that I was able to pull off the transformation within a match without any danger was after a KO or a Smash attack that sent the opponent fairly far away. I did find that once the tranformation was under way Samus has a few invicibility frames, nothing really practical, considering you can still get hit once the suit is falling away, but just for knowledge.

This method worked for every controller, the Wiimote being the most awkward considering it would have to be A, d+A, A, d+A, etc...

Finally, I found it was easiest to pull it off, and I use the classic controller, but this worked for CG controller as well, to hold down on the d-pad and while still holding down press up four times as fast as possible with the other thumb. Awkward, but doable. The nunchuk and wiimote configurations are still what they are and just as hard.

I hope this helps someone. Thanks for reading.

 

[salaboB]

My brother has been testing based on the information you just provided, and using the GC controller (This would work on classic as well) has managed to transform once even at 1.5X speed in training: he holds right on his d-pad with his right thumb, then rocks back and forth up/down without releasing the right one. Since it's just a rocking motion across that pivot, it's easier to do than trying to actually roll back and forth across the middle of the d-pad as I've heard described in other technique threads.

Thank you for clarifying what it actually takes to get it, and that other button presses don't interfere. That information is invaluable imo.

 

[StarScarJenova]

I'm glad the info was of some use. I think that the number of times that up and down need to be pressed is directly relational to why people only were able to when they mashed the buttons to input the "u,d,u." No worries, it's always good to know specifically what it is you're doing and why.

I found that after a good amount of practice I could get the transformation about 75% of the time. Now, in game, I can get it about 90%. The input is so strick so it is truly difficult, but I'm sure anyone who wants to take advantage of it will get to the point to where doing it will become an afterthought.

Glad I could help!

SSJ

 

[Hmaal]

Can you simplify this?

 

[DeliciousCake]

At first I thought this was going to be another pointless thread, but after reading it I must say I'm intrigued. Very good find! Propose adding this to the transformation sticky.

 

[salaboB]

Can you simplify this?

To transform to Zamus you don't simply press Up Down Up, you must press Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down, and you must do it rapidly after you begin any taunt. Other buttons pushed in the middle do not matter.

With that in mind, a relatively easy way to do it on a d-pad is to press and hold Right then wiggle your thumb up and down rapidly.

 

[Snakeee]

As I had to do at the Gamestop tourney, its ALOT easier doing it on the Wiimote + Nunchuck.
Also, does anybody know how to start as ZSS in tourney mode using the Wiimote + Nunchuck...could help me with round 3 alot. Thanks.

 

[looduhcriss]

when in tourney mode - highlight Samus and use the C-Stick and push left or right and she should transform...same as Subspace.
So im Guessing u hold (c) and push <-- / --> with teh control stick, for nunchuk (if thats how u do c-stick attacks)

BTW...nice find and work on the Xformation guide - this should be stickied

 

[k4polo]

Nice. I been looking for tips to do this.

 

[Kiwi.Ko]

nice find, it should be useful

 

[Cape]

Yeah, great job bringing this to the surface. I've been having great luck using the above-mentioned technique. I use my right index finger and hold right taunt while vibrating up and down very quickly as the match counts down. I get it first or second try every time. :D

 

[Hmaal]

Thanks Good job finding this.

 

[StarScarJenova]

As I had to do at the Gamestop tourney, its ALOT easier doing it on the Wiimote + Nunchuck.
Also, does anybody know how to start as ZSS in tourney mode using the Wiimote + Nunchuck...could help me with round 3 alot. Thanks.

Kinda like "Looduh" said except, while having Samus highlighted simply press the C button on the Nunchuk and she should change right there and then simply selet her.

I'm glad this find is helping. I'm getting it every time now and it's extremely beneficial in game. The contrast between play styles, mechanics and tech for each is so distinctive that the opponent has a hard time adjusting mid-battle.

I keep looking over Zamus to see if there is anything else, in terms of tech, that can help the Zamus mains in general.

SSJ

 

[Ørion]

Its WAY to hard to taunt transform. Lol just start as zamus and turn off smashballs

 

[Ivoryshadows]

Thanks for the info it sounds useful. I'll try it out soon and post again with results.

 

[Ivoryshadows]

Okay update! It really works thanks for the information. After doing a final smash with Zero I can transform back almost 80% of the time now. THat is, using a gamecube controller!

 

[Chaosblade77]

I just have slow fingers. I can do it consistently on 2/3 speed and slower, I can easily hit it 10x in a row. I can't get it on 1x speed though. I'll just continue hogging smash balls I guess, until I get it down. I usually just get them and hold them until I either die with it or finish the match with it... sometimes that is easier said that done.

 

[bob-6lgs]

-I knew it was only a matter of time before someone else figured this out as well. After I got the game at launch, perhaps the night after or so, I went online to see if info on the game was out yet, like new characters and such, and there already atcually was. I didnt know ZSS was possible to get at any time, so I was surprised by this, and excited. I tryed to change in training, but it didnt work. The info given, "Up Taunt, Down Taunt, UP Taunt, is not exactly how its done as all of you already know. I made a topic in the gamespot forums, and everyone just said start as her. They told me how hard it was, and One guy, said he did it once. He held the controller sideways, placed his thumb on the D pad, and moved it rapidly left and right. He said it wasnt worth it, and told me what the others said, just start as her. For me, that was unacceptable. I like Samus Alot and have been using her since 99, I just had to figure it out and do it on the fly. Them telling me how hard it was, and to "just start as her" only encouraged me to do it on my own. I went to training and slowed time down, I only studied the Up taunt (because that what I read, I thought it was the only way), and I found out when to do it for that one. Your research was far more indepth than mine SSJ. When I first did it, it would hurt my finger rubbing it from side to side so fast. It Hurt! By the time I was done for the night, my finger was red and it still burning. I kept going with in the morning, and About one day later, I really got a feel for it. I started to do it better over time, and I stopped rubbing so much. I later caught on to what I was doing that replaced the fast, rubbing. Literally pressing up and down on the controller is hard because of how fast you have to do it, and its harsh on your fingers to get the appropriate speed. When I started doing this more, without thinking, I was gripping the pad itself in the middle and moving IT up and down, rather than sliding my finger and pressing up and down. That is the key. When I realized that, I started to do it easier and easier, until it became second nature. I had less mess ups and did it about 95% of the time. If done right, its almost Immediate.

- I came to the forums here later on, and saw a topic about this in the Samus forums. I later saw your post and came here to the ZSS forums to see what you knew, and if you knew the way of doing it. Your research was impressive. Far more indepth than mine. In practice, I knew the up and down sequence was done more than three times, but I didnt know how much. I also didnt know the transformation was possible on other taunts, I did it by accident, but I never dug deeper to find out what the timing was, or anything. Sometimes if a down or side taunt, I would'nt continue because I was unsure of how it worked for them, so I 'ld wait it out, which is why I 'ld mess up sometimes. I would hit the other taunt sometimes. I think I was to caught up in playing the game, and challenging people I didnt do more research. I could do it well, so I didnt go further. I also didnt know the input for up down was four times. You really went all out, especially doing it with every controller. I have only done it with the GC controller. I didnt post this, I was waiting as usual. If I did, it would'nt have been as fleshed out as what you have hear, so perhaps it was a good thing I didnt post so soon. I was so busy playing, perhaps to much. Anyway, one thing, I cant do is the technique you described SSJ, I find it to akward, but if it works for you, thats great.
As for my method, while doing more research, and practice, I eventually stopped holding it sideways. I just move my right thumb to the left (bearly changing the postion of the pad now), placing my thumb in the middle of the pad, moving it left and right rapidly. It works Incredibly fast. And now that I know that it works on all taunts, and when, I get it 99% of the time. Thank you SSJ. Watching her doesnt even matter any more to me, I just have to move the pad, thats all that matters. Also an amazing way to do this, is what was mention in this thread by SalaboB, Holding down right on the D pad, then rapidly moving up and down. I tryed this and was surprised, this to be very fast and easy, almost immediate tranformation. Incredible. I cant do that with my thumb, but I can to it with my index fingure with ease as mentioned by Cape. Its one more way I do it. Another way it can be done (based off that) is placing the index fingure in the middle of the D pad. Real easy. Some people who have posted here said its hard. Well, its not at all, just give it a try, and get a feel for it. You WILL get it through time. I can do it like second nature. Or like metioned before, its an after thought. I dont even think about it anymore. You'll get it everytime, with the accational mess up. Keep at it. The determined people will get, for sure.
This topic has helped me come up with new ways to do it, and gave me more insite on whats going on. I got a better look on it.

Great insite SSJ, well done indeed. Highly appreciated.

Hahaha, by the way, I meant to post this on the 23rd... heheh, yeah....

 

[Newuser12345215]

Thank you StarScarJenova, kudos for figuring it out. It helped me figure out how to transform from Samus to ZSS. It also helped me figure out something about the transformation(see below).

I have a much more simpler and easier explanation for people who may not completely understand how to transform to from Samus to ZSS IMO.

Here's how you transform from Samus to ZSS(The simple and quick explanation.):

Make sure the Dpad is set to taunting.

Hold the controller sideways so that both your thumbs on on the "Up" and "Down" Dpad arrow buttons.

First, press "Up" to do the up taunt. While the up taunt is going on, NOW, rapidly mash the "Up" and "Down" Dpad buttons AS FAST AS YOU CAN.


You should transform to ZSS in no more than two seconds(if you mashed as fast as you can).


Also this works with Wii Remote and Nunchuck as well.

Hold the Wiiremote sideways, make sure both your thumb is on the "One" and "Two" buttons. Now, press "ONE" THEN "TWO"(REPEAT) AS FAST AS YOU CAN. You should be able to do it.

Make sure you don't press "One + Two" buttons at the same time, as this activates the side taunt.


I'm speaking from experience, and rapidly mashing the taunt buttons make it VERY EASY to transform from Samus to ZSS.

 

[nandez]

Hi all. I've been toying around with Zamus and found the easiest way to transform from PSS to ZSS. Using the Wiimote I launch Samus' homing missile then immediately hold the taunt button and spam down. This has worked for me 100% of the time and in the middle of online brawl matches. I've also found that during the transformation I'm temporarily invincible. Useful for those sudden-death-raining-bomb moments.

[Edit] I hope this works for you all. I'd like it if someone else could try this out and see if it works.

 

[StarScarJenova]

Yeah, the holding up while pressing down as fast as you can works well with the classic controller and the gamecube controller, but I wasn't sure if it worked for the wiimote and nunchuk configurations. Thanks!

 

[bob-6lgs]

Yeah, I just figured out the way of holding one button and taping the other over a week ago after switching to playing with the Wii mote and nun chuck. That is very easy and fast.

 

[Johnny B]

I would still rather start off the math with ZZS,

Trig or calc? No worries, bro; I fall asleep in some of my classes, too.

J/K GREAT topic. Samus was one of my favorites from Melee; now I can play as her again, knowing that I can free the butterfly from her chrysalis if ever things get too dicey.

 

[Crystanium]

I can never get Samus to transform. Everytime I try, she does the U, D, and then she turns to the direction of the television and opens her Arm Cannon. It bugs the heck out of me! I even tried holding down on the right side of the D-pad, and still, no results!

Edit: Ahahaha! I did it! Yay! Oh yeah, I'm number one! Thanks a lot for the "Hold right on D-pad" tip! It's so superior! I will impress my foes! Hahahahaha!

 

[S2]

Thanks TC for the visual cues. I've been able to do the transform before, but never consistently enough.

This is probably good for anyone playing ZSS, just in case you accidently forget to hold R (you know it'll happen eventually in an important match) and your opponent is being an *** about reseting or letting you transform (can't blame him, he wants to win).

 

[Orichalcum]

Ill do it with the index finger and my GC controller turned around 90° so i move it left and right, for up and down. Thats the best way for me, aint that quick with my thumb and after a little of practice i can now pull it of on the 2nd or 3rd try, even in games

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I got down the whole thing, thank you Paper Mario for training me to hit buttons uber fast!!!

 

[Starry Might]

WOW, this info sounds great! I'm getting tired of just grabbing the Smash Ball as Zero Suit Samus and not doing anything with it.

I'll try the "Hold Right on the D-Pad" method when I play "Brawl" this evening.

 

[Master of Fossils]

Nice job with the guide. I'll have to try it out.

 

[theholycrow]

This is my method, which works for me without fail.
I use the GC controller with left/right d-pad (default side taunt) set to block. That way, if I accidentally hit left or right, it doesn't initiate the side taunt. I quickly alternate between pressing down with my left thumb, and up with my right thumb.
It usually comes out after the first taunt, which is quick enough to do it after smashing your opponent off the stage, without being punished.

 

[Starry Might]

Well, I tried, but I still couldn't get it to work.

I'm gonna try something different tonight, though...

 

[blueriku]

Well, I tried, but I still couldn't get it to work.

I'm gonna try something different tonight, though...

You can try putting the controller side ways and then put your finger in the middle of the d-pad and shake your finger up and down (like in a vibrating manner) this is one of the most effective ways of transforming.

 

[Crystanium]

You can try putting the controller side ways and then put your finger in the middle of the d-pad and shake your finger up and down (like in a vibrating manner) this is one of the most effective ways of transforming.

That's right. I simply press the right side of the D-pad and then move it up and down continuously. Pressing the right side does not affect the transformation. I've done it a number of times so far. Not long ago, I was in a Basic Brawl, and someone picked up the Lightning Bolt and I shrank. Well, I ran behind a crate and then transformed. The person who was following me left me alone and walked away to fight the others. The funny part was as soon as I shed out of my armor, I grew big. Samus came out of her cocoon, as it were!

 

[Starry Might]

You can try putting the controller side ways and then put your finger in the middle of the d-pad and shake your finger up and down (like in a vibrating manner) this is one of the most effective ways of transforming.

I've tried different things (the different thing I was talking about was using a wired GCN controller instead of a WaveBird, in case there was any difference in the d-pads), but the only time I've gotten it to work is in Training Mode with the speed at 1/4 and 1/2.

*SHRUGS*

I'll try what you said when I play "Brawl" tonight.

 

[Ulevo]

You can try putting the controller side ways and then put your finger in the middle of the d-pad and shake your finger up and down (like in a vibrating manner) this is one of the most effective ways of transforming.

I can testify that this definitely works well. I've been using it just now for my testing.

 

[Starry Might]

I just have slow fingers. I can do it consistently on 2/3 speed and slower, I can easily hit it 10x in a row. I can't get it on 1x speed though. I'll just continue hogging smash balls I guess, until I get it down. I usually just get them and hold them until I either die with it or finish the match with it... sometimes that is easier said that done.

^- This is exactly where I'm currently at right now.

 

[MRTW113]

I played with my cousin, and I randomly did it just ONCE, the first time. Can't do it again :/

 

[DeliciousCake]

So how many pages back did you have to go to pointlessly necro this thread? READ THE RULES.

 

[Mota]

Yea i've been able to it a few time now =D

I just use the GC control, hold it sideways and use both my thumbs to press Up and Down on the D-pad rapidly. Awkward i know, but it works!

Never done it in a real real match since smash ballz are usually off

 

[ZlinkLGZ]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but i can do this with my left thumb alone on a GC controller. Just vibrate it, and it happens consistently after say 1 to 2 seconds.