Tap-DI

[Simna ibn Sind]

I didnt see any topics about this or anything about it in the New tech/discovery topic...

just about all multi-hit attacks and natural combo attacks are completely escapable thru use of Tap-DI

this DI is similar to the DI used in smash64, but more prominent in Brawl....simply rapidly tap the control stick in the direction you want to move

this can be used to escape all sorts of bad situtions...i've used to it completely get out of things such as rapid-jab combos against walls, Smart Bombs, and even some Final Smashes(i Tap-DI'd out of Lucario's)

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

BLARGH!

Does this mean that Snake's AAA combo is not a reliable KO move any more?

 

[Yuna]

BLARGH!

Does this mean that Snake's AAA combo is not a reliable KO move any more?

AAA is three hits in quick succession, not a multi-hit attack or spammed AAA.

If you're talking about A (hold) against a wall, that could never kill.

AAA is also pretty weak as a finisher IIRC. Since it's 3 hits, no one will ever have any problems DI:ing (for survival) it as well.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

AAA is three hits in quick succession, not a multi-hit attack or spammed AAA.

If you're talking about A (hold) against a wall, that could never kill.

AAA is also pretty weak as a finisher IIRC. Since it's 3 hits, no one will ever have any problems DI:ing (for survival) it as well.

But Simna makes it sound like ALL hit combos can be escaped with tap DI, much like how you could never use AAA combos against level 9 CPUs in Melee without getting interrupted. I was under the impression that the AAA combos were useable in Brawl because they were "stickier".

 

[TK Wolf]

Sorry for a bit of noobishness, but what's the difference between Tap-DI and Smash-DI?

 

[Yuna]

But Simna makes it sound like ALL hit combos can be escaped with tap DI, much like how you could never use AAA combos against level 9 CPUs in Melee without getting interrupted. I was under the impression that the AAA combos were useable in Brawl because they were "stickier".

Simna specifically says "multi-hit attacks". This does not mean "string of attacks".

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Sorry for a bit of noobishness, but what's the difference between Tap-DI and Smash-DI?

I think it's the same thing.

By the way, it's been a while since I've seen you around! You know, I still have to colour that picture I made of your character over on DA. I did promise I'd do it after all.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Simna specifically says "multi-hit attacks". This does not mean "string of attacks".

He also said "natural combos", which kind of made me worry a bit, since I havn't heard that term used in Smash for a long time.

 

[Yuna]

He also said "natural combos", which kind of made me worry a bit, since I havn't heard that term used in Smash for a long time.

Oh yeah, I missed that part. Of course natural combos can be escaped using DI. You just DI each hit. Won't work if they delay it or something, though.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

So...I guess this means that characters who rely on AAA combos for an approach, like Lucario and Ike, are in trouble then?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

This is repeated smash DI, I guess.

Nothing really new, but if it has this many uses, quite useful.

 

[Knight-errant]

Sorry for a bit of noobishness, but what's the difference between Tap-DI and Smash-DI?

Here's the definition of smash-DI from the official thread:

Smash DI :

When you take a hit, there are frames of hitlags where you're frozen and stay in place before being sent flying. The number of hitlag frames varies between 2-3 up to around 18 with Samus's Fully Charged Shot, or burner hits in BtT stages.

During those frame, you can move around using Smash DI.
If you smash the Control Stick in one direction, your character will move instantly in that direction. It doesn't go very far, but it can still save your life sometimes.

If the hit is techable, Smash DI can be used to move yourself into a wall or a ceiling and you'll be able to tech. If you miss the tech, you might bounce on the wall/ceiling
However Smash DIing into the ground can't make you tech (it would clearly be broken)

So it seems like Tap DI and Smash DI may be slightly different (like I'm not sure whether you need to tap during the freeze frames for Tap DI), but also seems to be similar. We'll probably have to wait until it's released in the U.S. to test and find out for sure.

 

[VersatileBJN]

So...I guess this means that characters who rely on AAA combos for an approach, like Lucario and Ike, are in trouble then?

Somebody answer this please

 

[ConeZone]

well that kind of sucks..so combos are useless in a way...?

 

[Paradigm]

Hopefully I can clear up a lot of misunderstanding here.

Some characters can spam their jabs very rapidly. Typically this pushes the opponent back so that after a few they get out of it. However, it was (previously) thought that when this was used against a wall, there was nothing the victim could do - DIing upward as one did in Melee to get out of it didn't work.

Simna - if I understood correctly myself - is saying that this situation, as well as a number of other combos, can be broken out of through repeated SDI.

He is not saying all combos, or even just the rapid jab combos, are useless. Lucario's rapid A approach normally knocks the opponent away on the last hit - it should still string together those few attacks. It's just you can't use it infinitely to hold someone against a wall, or assume all combos that thus far have appeared to work will always.

 

[Biolizard28]

Like Paradigm said, Simna's post only stated it that he could escape jab combos against walls. He never said anything about regular jab combos.

Besides, since when is DI-ing out of combos new?

 

[Thino]

he must be talking about multi-hit attacks more than combos

 

[NES n00b]

You mean Smash DI? lol, come on Simna.

 

[Andrew Ott]

It seems like this is just repeated, semi-random smash DI to make for a lack of ability to actually time smash DI well enough to escape rapid hits, I guess a blunt way to put it would be "button mashing DI." That said, this makes infinites in brawl a little less menacing, and they will most likely only be able to be used for a few seconds, which is a good thing.

By the way, with good DI, any hit, including a single neutral A, can be DI'd enough to escape a combo, this was true in all of the previous games. That's just really hard to react to and do in time.

 

[TheLegend]

I didnt see any topics about this or anything about it in the New tech/discovery topic...

just about all multi-hit attacks and natural combo attacks are completely escapable thru use of Tap-DI

this DI is similar to the DI used in smash64, but more prominent in Brawl....simply rapidly tap the control stick in the direction you want to move

this can be used to escape all sorts of bad situtions...i've used to it completely get out of things such as rapid-jab combos against walls, Smart Bombs, and even some Final Smashes(i Tap-DI'd out of Lucario's)

Simna is a mod =O

 

[pesticide]

so.... this means that those wall infinite combos can be gotten out of? i dont really understand the difference between tap, smash, and normal DI

(of course i know what normal DI is)

 

[Thino]

tap DI = smash DI

 

[xbrinkx]

Won't work if they delay it or something, though.

I see what you did thar.

 

[Requiem]

tap DI = smash DI

No, tap-DI is fastly repeated smash DI >__________<

Dis decomfirms the fox/pikachu/etc infinite, sweet.

 

[Habanero Pepper]

Corneris is back!!! Huzzah!!!

I think Simna should come back and clarify this stuff though. Whether it's rapid A moves or just jab repetition.

 

[Thino]

No, tap-DI is fastly repeated smash DI >__________<

I never did it just once

 

[lemonlau36]

Tap DI is pretty much repeated smash DI. I believe it merits a different term, because to smash DI out of a multi-hit attack can mislead some people. When I think smash DI, I just think one smash in the direction I want to go, which just won't work.

 

[AustiniusRex]

Possibly one of the most game altering discoveries yet. This may completely redefine those who we saw as "cheap" or dangerous spammers.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

this is not smash DI.....smashDI you smash a direction once...tap-DI you repeatedly smash it

and you can us this on any attacks, not just multi-hit attacks....it just HARDER to do on single hit attacks...you have to be really quick...i can still only get 1-2 taps in on some single hit attacks


also: in case people were wondering...when i go to escape a wall combo i dont DI up(altho im not saying this doesnt work...i havent tried it). What i do is tap-DI into the opponent and push them away fromt he wall and then back out....i imagine this would be hard in a situation where you and your opponent are between two walls

 

[Micahc]

So, can people stop complaining about having to ban stages with walls now?

 

[darkatma]

this just means zelda's screwed

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I'm just sad that AAA combos STILL aren't safe. -_-

 

[Lunaretic]

this just means zelda's screwed

Unfortunately this seems to be likely unless her moves 'pull' people in more than the DI can 'push' out of.

 

[UrajKingofDarkness]

Okay, here's an example to help Simna. I've played Brawl with Simna several times now (TeamScape woot) and he showed me what he meant.

Smash DI, which is Melee-style, is where you smash and hold a direction to influence your direction for safety. This doesn't work in Brawl though. So, if you get hit by a Smart Bomb in Brawl (which holds you in and hits you many times before throwing you away at the end of the blast) you wont really go anywhere and you're screwed.

HOWEVER, if you TAP a direction repeatedly while in a Smart Bomb blast you will visibly move through the Smart Bomb (very quickly I might add), and can even escape it before it finishes exploding. Both Simna and I have done this on many occasions.

This DOES NOT screw over characters any more than they would be screwed over by DI in Melee. This is simply the regular way to DI in Brawl.

To reiterate, SMASH DI= tap a direction once and hold it: TAP DI= tap the direction you want to DI in repeatedly.

Also, Simna sucks.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

That's not much of a consolation. Most characters couldn't use thier AAA jabs safely in Melee.

 

[UrajKingofDarkness]

So don't be so held up on AAA jabs. I don't see why you're so obsessed with them.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

So don't be so held up on AAA jabs. I don't see why you're so obsessed with them.

Because this time around, AAA jabs are VERY IMPORTANT. Since Brawl doesn't have the same spacing tricks as Melee, you need fast attacks to cover up mistakes and for prime attack opportunities. What's more, each hit of an AAA jab will recharge your stale moves.

Some characters, like Snake, Ike and Lucario need their AAA combos to serve as a primary approach!

 

[Finch]

This is still just repeated smash DI. Yes, in melee you smash DI just once, because you would normally use it on a one-hit attack. I assume you do this in brawl as well. This is just trying to smash DI as many hits as you can in a multi-hit attack. There is no difference between Smash DIing a single hit and "tap DI"ing multiple hits. You are still trying to move during the hitlag, thus it is smash DI.

 

[UrajKingofDarkness]

Except, Finch, that while you're flying away from a strong attack tapping the direction you're trying to DI in does more than holding the direction (as you would in Melee). There is a very big difference between those. In Melee you could just hold the direction you were DI'ing, regardless of the number of hits.

Also, NESSBOUNDER, you're overreacting. Tap DI doesn't make it easy to DI out of something like Snake's 3-hit string. You'd have to have superhuman timing and reflexes to do something like that, if it's even possible. I've never DI'd out of Snake's 3-hitter, even mashing a direction as much as possible.

 

[Aninymouse]

this just means zelda's screwed

They buffed the hell out of Zelda, only to have all her kill moves easily DI'd ._.;

I'm worried for Zelda mains, too.