Vult Redux
Smash Lord
I did nothing to make you think I am Town. You are saying that to get me off your back.
Double Vote: Swiss
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Tales of Symphonia Mafia | Game Over - Town Wins Yayuhzz
- Thread starter ~ Gheb ~
- Start date
- Status
Double Vote: Swiss
Vult Redux
Smash Lord
Swiss
Smash Lord
Hey Vult, why don't you go ahead and screw up some more.
Nah, I'm just kidding, you're playing pro.
Nah, I'm just kidding, you're playing pro.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Wow, so many people I haven't played with :O
Vote: Dr. Riddler
**** hydras
Vote: Dr. Riddler
**** hydras
Rajam
Smash Champion
ok: I voted at random because it's RVS. I'll remove my vote later if I see it's proper
Also, I wasn't really fishing masons... and why would you think I'm the one fishing masons? You're applying different criteria with me and Swiss despite we're doing like the same things...
What do you think so far of Swiss?
Swiss
Smash Lord
Hey Hilt, don't be too useful all at once.
Try making another random vote with no substance - that should help us out.
Try making another random vote with no substance - that should help us out.
I have no idea what this refers to.
So...............................................
I'm going to propose a mass roleclaim.
(Please do not claim until/unless a majority comes out in favor.)
Before the game started I made a list of Tales of Symphonia characters and prioritized them in order of "likelyhood of being selected as a real town-aligned role". I'd be happy to upload this in a time-stamped manner such that it can be revealed after the mass roleclaim but not altered during. I'd suggest others do the same if they wish.
It should be relatively easy to solve this given the scope of the setting. Tales focuses a ton on the main party, featuring very few other significant "good" characters. Oh no, it might turn out Yuan was on our side, boo-hoo. I think it will be easy to find which main party characters are false safe claims, even if my/our lists don't get it right the first lynch.
Summary: I'm town, play to win, mass roleclaim yes or yes?
Mass roleclaim is a horrible idea that takes away the fun I like having while playing mafia.
=(
=(
Swiss
Smash Lord
Well Zac has an anti town role or thinks the flavour works against him.
Thinkaman - Your idea is actually horrible. No offense. I don't know the flavour of this, but as this is a mystical BS kind of flavour I'm pretty sure we'd out at least a doc or masonry cult. Scum always get safeclaims which mean they'd be town in your book.
So basically, all we'd do is out some of our power roles.
SHERMOOOTH.
Thinkaman - Your idea is actually horrible. No offense. I don't know the flavour of this, but as this is a mystical BS kind of flavour I'm pretty sure we'd out at least a doc or masonry cult. Scum always get safeclaims which mean they'd be town in your book.
So basically, all we'd do is out some of our power roles.
SHERMOOOTH.
Swiss
Smash Lord
This is useful though. Thanks for clearing up your alignment.
Vult Redux
Smash Lord
Um I just outed Swiss as scum and you completely ignore him. Why?
Okay...
Well... Did you genuinely expect someone answer your/Swiss' questions about the QT?
I think he's scummy...
Vult Redux
Smash Lord
Dear Swiss,
Will you bandwagon Hilt and/or Zac with me?
Love, Vult
Will you bandwagon Hilt and/or Zac with me?
Love, Vult
It's like the planking of mafia. Hate the game, not da' playa.
Also, I promise to never say that again.
This makes no sense. My point was that it would be moderately easy to beat the safe claims. Why would mass roleclaim result in dead power roles???
SPOILERS: HAY GUYS THE DOC IS PROBABLY RAINE, THE COP IS PROBABLY SHEENA THOUGH MAYBE GENIS, AND PRESEA+REGAL ARE VERY PROBABLY THE SAME FACTION WHATEVER IT IS.
Vote: Swiss
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Well, for the sake of tradition,
Vote: Blue Yoshi
I'll change it later today (or tonight). For some reason, I didn't really feel like making a joke while posting it (actually, I was considering not self-voting at all)... probably because I'm not feeling that good at the moment... (yay, sick johns).
anyways... hi guys
Vote: Blue Yoshi
I'll change it later today (or tonight). For some reason, I didn't really feel like making a joke while posting it (actually, I was considering not self-voting at all)... probably because I'm not feeling that good at the moment... (yay, sick johns).
anyways... hi guys
Vult Redux
Smash Lord
How would it be "easy" to beat safe claims?
They're there for a reason. The best we can do GUESS the "likelyhood of being selected as a real town-aligned role". It's a high-risk strategy with an uncertain chance of reward. I don't like.
They're there for a reason. The best we can do GUESS the "likelyhood of being selected as a real town-aligned role". It's a high-risk strategy with an uncertain chance of reward. I don't like.
That's not hard, not for this setting and not when we have town power roles and clues from people posting.
I'm not saying we can solve the game. I'm saying that in this case it should firmly improve town win percentages.
Vult Redux
Smash Lord
I'm reluctant.
Why are you suggesting role claim versus just character claim?
Why are you suggesting role claim versus just character claim?
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant both, aka "I am Cloud Strife, vanilla town who becomes a vig if Zack dies."
Normally, with standard mafia roles, a mass roleclaim isn't particularly pro-town or pro-mafia. In this case though, the theme should provide us with enough additional information to make pro-town moves.
The idea is that at least some of our assumptions about the setting will be true, and town power roles can confirm assumptions. It's a simple setting with pretty clearly defined characters, so this is pro-town.
Sure, we could be playing some ******* game where all the half elves are the mafia, Lloyd is the doc, Chocolat is the cop, and Regal is a serial killer... but at that point why are we even playing "Tales of Symphonia Mafia"?
Normally, with standard mafia roles, a mass roleclaim isn't particularly pro-town or pro-mafia. In this case though, the theme should provide us with enough additional information to make pro-town moves.
The idea is that at least some of our assumptions about the setting will be true, and town power roles can confirm assumptions. It's a simple setting with pretty clearly defined characters, so this is pro-town.
Sure, we could be playing some ******* game where all the half elves are the mafia, Lloyd is the doc, Chocolat is the cop, and Regal is a serial killer... but at that point why are we even playing "Tales of Symphonia Mafia"?
X1-12
Smash Champion
everyone in this game is town or mafia..
OH WAIT
Unfortunately, not everybody agrees with the idea of regernating the world. Traitors, enemies as well as mysterious people of unknown or everchanging alignment always tried to oppose the journey of the chosen hoping to stop her. What could their motives be and most of all - who are they? Sooner rather than later the chosen herself had to concern herself with these kinds of questions as well.
Dr. Riddler
macman|Riddle
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 12
Youre a jerk.
Vult_Redux said:
You guys are being annoying and not funny. Be quiet.Swiss said:
That was verry close to my role in FFVI mafia lol.Thinkaman said:
Horrible idea. We arent massclaiming. Safeclaims are an SWF standard, for once Swiss is actually right.Thinkaman said:
Dr. Riddler
macman|Riddle
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 12
Vote: Swiss
You're a jerk
You're a jerk
Disagree. Lots of people stuck their head in the sand for months/years and insisted that planking was not viable; just because we wish it doesn't mean the math is wrong.
It varies by game. With typical roles day one massclaim isn't pro-mafia, though it isn't really pro-town either.
GOLLY GEE I WONDER WHAT CHARACTERS THIS COULD BE REFERRING TO?
I WISH I HAD PLAYED TALES OF SYMPHONIA, THEN THIS WOULDN'T BE A COMPLETE MYSTERY TO ME.
Urg, I've hit my CAPS quota for the week already. Sorry guys.
Again, safeclaims mean we can't break the game; it doesn't mean massclaim isn't pro-town.
I'm just going to ballpark that our win odds should jump to at least 60% coming off a day 1 massclaim.
X1-12
Smash Champion
All it does will open up WIFOM if we find someone who could be either town or mafia, or if someone calims something someone else has safeclaimed. It also gives scum loads of information as soon as N1 giving them loads of potential to cause even more confusion with the NK
I will say that in almost all versions and role-sets of mafia, day 1 partial roleclaim is very obviously pro-mafia. All you are doing is assisting mafia target selection without actually helping the town in any way.
Day 1/2/3/n WIFOM is pro-town. Either you hit a scum and know it or you hit a villager and know it so you still hit the scum next time.
In typical mafia setups, the mafia ratio is less than 1:3--even in the worst case scenario this is good.
The superior mafia strategy is to stick to safe claims, which I insist we can figure out. I think we are capable, with discussion and town power roles, of reverse engineering the fake claims in a reasonably fast manner.
This path has clearly superior odds to random lynching.
Forum mafia is far different from irl mafia, and you'll see that quickly. But learn right now, if you would, that massclaims will never work especially with a mod like Gheb who WILL provide mafia safeclaims. You'll end up in a dump of all VIABLE townie roles with all PR roles outed for mafia to pick off one by one.
terrible idea, and a FoS: Thinka to accompany that statement.
terrible idea, and a FoS: Thinka to accompany that statement.
Dr. Riddler
macman|Riddle
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 12
Implies that random lynching is the only alternative to massclaiming. You have not demonstrated to anybody how this benefits at all.Thinkaman said:
How are we going to find out safe-claims? The whole point is that they make mass claiming unhelpful.
X1-12
Smash Champion
you seem to think that town is allways 100% compiled of intelligent, sensible people.
I also don't suggest we 'random lynch' instead we scumhunt.
@All: Does anyone mind if Thinkaman explains to everyone a bit about the flavour to us?
I also don't suggest we 'random lynch' instead we scumhunt.
@All: Does anyone mind if Thinkaman explains to everyone a bit about the flavour to us?
Dr. Riddler
macman|Riddle
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 12
That means you think Thinkaman's proposal is scummy rather than dumb?chaco said:
Dr. Riddler
macman|Riddle
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 12
@X1 - I'm assuming you mean like the basis of Tales of Symphonia? If so, yeah that sounds good.
X1-12
Smash Champion
Indeed, a quick run down of the characters etc..
Rajam
Smash Champion
Go to the DG archive and check the other two games Gheb has modded (Superstars and Muppets iirc). If you check the roles, you'll see safeclaims for Mafia. So, this probably won't help us. Even so, claiming is an overall bad idea (unless the game is extremely influenced bt flavor, which i don't think is the case here) and should be used as a last resource.... maybe not even then.
Yet again, safeclaims do not make mass claim inviable. This is my entire point all this time.
The setting is simple. The characters are very straightforward. We know what they are very likely to be. Even with a few mixed up ones, it should still not be that hard to unravel.
Even partially accurate knowledge of what group of players contains the mafia will ultimately be more valuable than most power roles. Prioritized mafia targets is not a strong enough pro-mafia advantage in most games.
The setting is simple. The characters are very straightforward. We know what they are very likely to be. Even with a few mixed up ones, it should still not be that hard to unravel.
Even partially accurate knowledge of what group of players contains the mafia will ultimately be more valuable than most power roles. Prioritized mafia targets is not a strong enough pro-mafia advantage in most games.
Rajam
Smash Champion
You never know... that's why we're trying to put some traps around there, even if they're obvious, someone may fall... please don't ruin future scum-traps from now on
Um I just outed Swiss as scum and you completely ignore him. Why?
Okay...
Well... Did you genuinely expect someone answer your/Swiss' questions about the QT?
I think he's scummy...
Yeah, I read both before the game started, and before I prioritized my list of roles by likelihood of being town.
This being a closed game, I view it as a team game against the moderator, not each other. Whichever faction figures out Gheb's design the best will win, and I feel good about the odds of me being on the winning team.
I'll be happy to post a full flavor spoilers post, but I don't want to do it if there is still any chance of a massclaim. If someone hasn't played/know the game/characters, they will be at a MAJOR disadvantage at making up coherent fake roles for their safe claim character.
Vult Redux
Smash Lord
Rajam
Smash Champion
Um I just outed Swiss as scum and you completely ignore him. Why?
Okay...
Well... Did you genuinely expect someone answer your/Swiss' questions about the QT?
I think he's scummy...
uh, scumslip here? why the change from one post to the next?
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