Tales of Symphonia Mafia | Game Over - Town Wins Yayuhzz

[Rajam]

Doing a re-read. Page 32:

For me, it was that Swiss blindly did his "QT" trap addressed to me. It's a reasonable bet that he actually did have a QT, and it would be asinine to test me if I was aligned with him. What if I was a Desian and actually fell for his self-targetted "trap"? Sacrificing one of their own Day 1 for a questionable advantage is way too much wine for me to swallow. Why not do it to anyone else? It's a pointless risk for him.

Similarly, I don't think Chaco would be aligned with Swiss. Both had nearly unlimited chances to hammer or push to hammer Zac with legitimate reasons and yet gunned for each other.

For Tandora, nix, and Zac there were some posts that made me feel safe about this. Note that I merely don't think these players are Desians. (aligned with Swiss) I'll go find them... again.

Emphasis: I don't think anyone on this list is confirmed town, just unlikely to be Desian aka Swiss's faction.

Repeat Emphasis: I don't think there are any Desians left anyway. Why would a vig kill Hilt? Why would the Desians themselves?

I wouldn't read much into what Swiss said before dying either way. I don't think it's even possible to accurately guess if he was trying to troll us or not, much less derive any sort of truth from it.



WTF? I'm distracting us by assuming that the other mafia aren't aligned with Swiss? How is that information a distraction from scumhunting, it is scumhunting!

That doesn't mean anything, you cannot be cleared as a potential Swiss partner because of that. ok, maybe it helps you, but doesn't really clear you. The QT "trap" was pretty stupid and no one would've fallen in that. That's why I think it doesn't really clear you (although again, it may help)

hilt and swiss def knew of each other. i think hilts unvoting of swiss was him backing down from a bus. sissy

i also think that were dealing with a 3-man scumteam and hilt/swiss were an indy faction. i think yall should work under this assumption as well. why? cuz thats the least lame setup which is what i expect from gheb plain and simple

riddle i was completely serious about not contacting macman til halfway through d2. id prefer to have him just trudge through the thread and let him do his own thing like he did on d1. i think hes less likelier to become bored that way too. do you agree to that?

lol @ x1-12 saying riddler has done absolutely nothing for town. i guess picking out scum isnt useful

also chacos going after swiss was NOT a bad case at all. people just think it was cuz they werent aware of his meta. miscommunication i think

also cuz of what i said earlier in this post dancers scumhunting SOLELY off of swiss connections bothers me and i think theyre weak

someone take my spot on zac wagon cuz lots of dudes are hating on im. who wants to vote x1-12 with me?

unvote vote x1-12

ok, one thing is that you believe that's the most likely setup, and other is telling everyone else "asume this", specially with what I consider a poor reason like "because that's what I would expect from Gheb". I think we do not have enough info atm to start to already believe one theory in such a strong form, and to make things "worse", you tell all the other to work under that assumption. I don't like this. If it weren't for the reason you cleared yourself Day 1, I would FoS you. Don't make assumptions (not yet at least).

I'd support going for x1-12 over zac today, sure.

vote x1-12

Zac, what do you have to say about Day 2? Let us see the promised scumhunt.

Jumping on wagons with no reasons? Why did you vote X1-12 here? (and please don't answer "to join the wagon").

---

I'm aware people people are starting to vote against me. I can take the label of "not very active", but I can't accept the "lurking" one. My posts aren't useless; I am scum-hunting. I'll check and adress the rest of the posts asap.

 

[Thinkaman]

Jumping on wagons with no reasons? Why did you vote X1-12 here? (and please don't answer "to join the wagon").

Uh, as far as I'm concerned I started the x1-12 wagon:

After re-reading, marshy mentioned him once, in the post immediately before mine. I'm not sure if that counts or not, he was voting for zac in that very post anyway. All I know is I spent the next two posts specifically pointing at x1-12.

Marshy stole my thunder by switching votes to x1-12 before I voted at all. Why would I not then put my vote where my mouth is?

Like seriously, being in favor of lynching x1-12 is the only hard position I've taken today, which I took from the beginning. Of all the people to accuse of bandwagoning, why me?

Rajam, I dislike your last post because you put words in my mouth and then turned around and did the same thing to marshy. I never claimed anyone is cleared, I said, in extra large bold letters, that I think those people are unlikely to be aligned with Swiss. marshy was making a reasonable assumption while not dismissing the alternatives, not that we should proceed strictly under one possibility. (Unless I misunderstood?)

I asked you a question previously, which you ignored and asked me one in return. I have answered yours, can you return the favor now?

 

[Rajam]

Page 33 (20 posts per page):

I've gone through and read and re-read a ton of posts. Here's what I gathered:

Right now the people I find most scummy are Thinkaman and marshy.

Thinkaman



He mentioned that he was away for some time and that he wanted to go through and re-read posts. What I don't get is why he switched votes without at least looking at vote counts. I find it unlikely that the hammer was an accident and he was just playing it off with his "away" excuse. Sworddancer and Nix had good follow-up points in that a warning would have been best so that town could have gotten more information (ie. a claim, or refusal of claim, etc).

Vote: Thinkaman

His play seems really scummy and he's my play for the day so far.

---

Marshy

What's up with voting X1 right at the start of toDay? I went back looking for tension between you two but didn't see anything, maybe I missed it. Later on you stated that X1 was scummy but you didn't say why you thought so. Then you switched votes to my wagon, which imo is weird if you think X1 is scum and don't care to explain why.



I also don't understand why you brought up these "good instinct" posts and then said they weren't useful... but cool. This seemed to come from nowhere. What were you getting at?



Oh, now you're going after X1 again? You jumped off my wagon because "lots of dudes be hatin on me" What'd you expect given my lack of participation Day 1 and no show Day 2? Seems like a shallow reason to jump ship.

I really don't like this wishy-washy play, but Thinkaman is still my #1 pick so far.

Thinkaman's vote on Swiss was ok. Day 1 he was always suspicious of Swiss (I think everyone was), and there was little time until deadline. I don't share your reasons on Thinkaman (that is, I don't share the reasons, I'm not saying I don't think Thinkaman is potential scum)

Your points on marshy on the other hand are pretty good, but what do you think of the fact that marshy is cleared through the PM color thing?

unvote

At least he is scumhunting now. Just don't drop it.

@ Zac, why are you berating Think for hammering when there was less than 12 hours left before deadline? How much closer did you want to wait before the day ended? Bad play man.

@Vult, why are you asking people to join you on a wagon w/o giving your own reasons and then asking for reasons?

@ Rajam, why don't you post some? Tried of your lurking especially after your hypocritcal vote on me.

@ the Hydras, could you guys please use your hyrda accounts? ISO is getting ridiculous hard on you guys.

Lynch all lurkers =P and coming from ME...thats kind of bad <_< Considering i lurk a few times myself.

Again, I can take the criticism on not being more active, but I'm not lurking. I am actively scum-hunting... idk how to setup traps, but at least I check posts in detail and I bring to light things that seems... weird.

Concerning my hammering of Swiss:

It's hardly a secret that I spent all of Day 1 focusing on Swiss and you Zac. After I returned and a lot had happened, I felt more strongly about Swiss--the last minute Chaco circus just wasn't right. I wanted to re-read things and try to look for patterns, but one thing was for sure: I wanted Swiss to die.

I'm not sure why you'd expect someone who had been critical of Swiss all day not to vote for him after he starts reaching new-found levels of scum-ness?

As for threatening to get a claim, we were way beyond the point with Swiss where any claim he made would have had an effect on mine (or probably anyone else's) actions. I can't think of anything he could have possible said or claimed that would have made me not hammer him; this was my exact thought process at the time.



I hope this isn't addressed to me. (Especially since I don't think there are any Desians left.) Making assumptions about the setup is bound to get the town in trouble, we should merely keep in mind the possibilities.

lol at this; weren't you making the same things trying to proceed by flavor Day 1, and now with the scum teams setup?

 

[UTDZac]

Your points on marshy on the other hand are pretty good, but what do you think of the fact that marshy is cleared through the PM color thing?

Can you explain what you meant by the "PM color thing?" If it has to do with marshy clearing himself Day 1 (what you said in an earlier post) I must have missed it. I don't have time right now to go back and look, it would probably take me 20 times longer than just asking. Thanks in advance =)

 

[Rajam]

I got school again, so expect lessened activity. I'm still due a reread but for now, I'm okay with doing this.

Vote: X1

-_- why is people voting without a (strong) reason? Chaco, which are your reasons to vote against X1-12?

Nix and Rajam (and heck X1-12): Why do you think Hilt would have been targeted last night? Why not Chaco or marshy?

Uh, as far as I'm concerned I started the x1-12 wagon:

After re-reading, marshy mentioned him once, in the post immediately before mine. I'm not sure if that counts or not, he was voting for zac in that very post anyway. All I know is I spent the next two posts specifically pointing at x1-12.

Marshy stole my thunder by switching votes to x1-12 before I voted at all. Why would I not then put my vote where my mouth is?

Like seriously, being in favor of lynching x1-12 is the only hard position I've taken today, which I took from the beginning. Of all the people to accuse of bandwagoning, why me?

Rajam, I dislike your last post because you put words in my mouth and then turned around and did the same thing to marshy. I never claimed anyone is cleared, I said, in extra large bold letters, that I think those people are unlikely to be aligned with Swiss. marshy was making a reasonable assumption while not dismissing the alternatives, not that we should proceed strictly under one possibility. (Unless I misunderstood?)

I asked you a question previously, which you ignored and asked me one in return. I have answered yours, can you return the favor now?

ok, your reasons on your vote seem valid.
And, I guess you mean this question:

Nix and Rajam (and heck X1-12): Why do you think Hilt would have been targeted last night? Why not Chaco or marshy?

So, basically do you want me to WIFOM? I have no idea why Hilt was NKilled instead of Chaco or marshy... Chaco isn't even cleared; marshy... maybe he is focusing on the wrong people and/or maybe scum thinks he is Vanilla... I don't want to give theories on why Hilt was Nkilled. There are so many reasons at this moment that it isn't worth it to trust one theory more than other. NKills always have the purpose of causing WIFOM, so again we shouldn't discuss why Hilt was NKilled. We'll gain more information on this issue as Days and Nights go on, but not now.

 

[Rajam]

Zac, this is the post:

[collapse=current vote count]Swiss - 4: Thinkaman, Chacotaco, Dr. Riddler, Hilt
Sworddancer - 1: Blue Yoshi
Dr. Riddler - 1: Sworddancer
UTDZac - 3: Vult Redux, X1-12, Marshigio
Chacotaco - 1: Swiss

Not Voting: Tandora, Rajam, UTDZac

Takes 7 / 13 to lynch![/collapse]
blue yoshi swiss is nowhere NEAR a lynch. why dont you put your vote where your mouth is?

swiss if you think chaco was pressuring you to get a read on you and that zacs wagon hop was super scummy then i dont get how your chaco vote is better than your zac vote

yes thinkaman. flavor summary can easily lead to town being distracted from scumhunting and thus be a waste of time and no one cares about it. people can just wiki the game. so dont do it. however if you disagree then just post it cuz i dont care to argue it

i feel like clearing myself. the color of my role is blue

vult...sure. why not. swiss wagon has enough momentum as is. any thoughts on zacs latest posts?

vote zac

What do you think of it?

 

[UTDZac]

I don't like it at all. There's little to no good reason to claim. He wasn't being voted and there didn't seem to be any pressure on him otherwise. I don't get why he would have posted this.

I personally wouldn't read anything from the claim. It's impossible to tell what he's going for imo.

 

[Nix2100]

ah but keep in mind, the only thing he claimed was that he was town , nothing more, nothing less. It's slightly understandable on why he thinks he cleared himself, as the way he did is...interesting to say the least =P

 

[Xiivi]

X1-12 - 4: Marshy, Thinkaman, Chaco, Tandora
Rajam - 2: Nix2100, Sworddancer
UTDZac - 1: Vult Redux
Sworddancer. - 1: Dr. Riddler
Thinkaman - 1: UTDZac
Not voting - 2: Rajam, X1-12

Takes 6/11 to lynch!

 

[Thinkaman]

lol at this; weren't you making the same things trying to proceed by flavor Day 1, and now with the scum teams setup?

Huh? My problem is you is that you are mis-constructing speculating and pondering as decisive statements. You are criticizing taking speculation as fact, which is a good criticism except that no one is doing that...

So, basically do you want me to WIFOM? I have no idea why Hilt was NKilled instead of Chaco or marshy... Chaco isn't even cleared; marshy... maybe he is focusing on the wrong people and/or maybe scum thinks he is Vanilla... I don't want to give theories on why Hilt was Nkilled. There are so many reasons at this moment that it isn't worth it to trust one theory more than other. NKills always have the purpose of causing WIFOM, so again we shouldn't discuss why Hilt was NKilled. We'll gain more information on this issue as Days and Nights go on, but not now.

Emphasis:

NKills always have the purpose of causing WIFOM, so again we shouldn't discuss why Hilt was NKilled.

This line in particular irks me, but it's all the same argument. You are arguing that night kills actually yield no information? That's nonsense.

We can't just throw our hands up in the air and ignore every post in the game under mantra of "WIFOM" either. By nature of the idea, almost any pro-town action anyone takes in this game can be described as WIFOM--I think it's getting overused as a phrase. It's to the point where we have cases like this where people are arguing against pro-town actions because they might lead to WIFOM???

Golly, let's all just agree to lynch with a RNG--that will teach those alcoholic scum!

Also, I don't fully understand how marshy is "cleared". Isn't a blue name for town really easy to guess? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that scum is red, doesn't take a rocket scientist. (Oh noes, teh wine!)

 

[Thinkaman]

Nix, can you address my question?

 

[Nix2100]

It varies from mod to mod =P some mods use green, or don't even post a color at all.

 

[Tandora]

Also, I don't fully understand how marshy is "cleared". Isn't a blue name for town really easy to guess? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that scum is red, doesn't take a rocket scientist. (Oh noes, teh wine!)

I agree with this statement. Several people have claimed they *know* that yellow means indy without it being explicitly stated by the mod during the death scene. Blue, yellow, and red usually respectively represent town, indy, and scum so stating that is generally going to be accepted.

Honestly, I don't even remember colored text unless it is for the whole post such as Gheb's green for vote counts, so I didn't even understand what Marshy was talking about when he made his claim.

 

[Nix2100]

Did you even read my post Tandora?

Regardless...this type of conversation is a bit pointless, whether or not Marshy thinks he cleared himself doesn't matter until we clear him from something OTHER then the color of his role PM.

It was slightly weird, yes, but talking anymore about this, in my opinion, would just be waiting our time.

 

[Riddle]

The other thing to remember is that Gheb has modded two other games so it would be very possible to use that information to determine what color he generally used for town.

 

[Nix2100]

...Riddle I think I love you, I completely forgot to go back and check Gheb's previous games >_> he uses blue for town roles in both of them, so there, Marshy is in no way cleared (and probably laughing watching us even discuss this). Can we move on now?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Um, I consider Marshy "puesdo-cleared" with the information available. I'm not too comfortable thinking that scum would risk something like that, but at the same time Marshy does seem to base things on color (just as the whole indy thing) so yeah. . . puesdo-cleared.

I got a reread at this point, no leads.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

that post pretty much says nothing dancer. lookin forward to that reread

riddle

can you ask macman to read the thread?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

also nix why dont you get an avatar?

 

[UTDZac]

Nix, you should totally use an inverted marshy avatar.... :O

 

[Thinkaman]

Wow, my grandmother just got a call from someone claiming to be me saying he was arrested in Canada under false charges while fishing and needed money. Sorry for being off topic, but this is too hilarious.

While I'm here, Nix why are you avoiding my question?

 

[Nix2100]

Because I don't have a answer for it, it could of been random, it could of been someone who played with Hilt before and knew he might be trouble if he stayed alive, Im not going to assume why someone NK'd someone N1, because half the time there isn't a reason. (I would of killed Marshy personally =P )

 

[Thinkaman]

Alright, thanks. (To be clear, I don't think it's something we should get hung up on--just something odd enough to prompt conversation.)

 

[Vult Redux]

Also, I don't fully understand how marshy is "cleared". Isn't a blue name for town really easy to guess? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that scum is red, doesn't take a rocket scientist. (Oh noes, teh wine!)

Do you think he's scummy?

 

[Tandora]

Is it just me or is D2 going really slow?

 

[Thinkaman]

Do you think he's scummy?

Actually, no. I just don't like this weird "cleared" train of thought.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

yeah this is taking a longass time

NIX GET AN AVATAR

RIDDLE WHY ARE YOU BEING STUBBORN WITH YOUR DANCER VOTE. DEADLINES IN FIVE DAYS AND THE WEEKENDS COMING. ALSO ASK MACMAN TO READ THE THREAD SOON AND MAKE A COOL POST WITH HIS UPDATED THOUGHTS. TELL HIM ILL GO TO THE NEXT APEX IF HE DOES IT AT LEAST ONCE EVERY DAY. DONT GET BORED

DANCER BUDDY REREAD AND LEMME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK

ANYONE WANNA ASK ME QUESTIONS OR SOMETHING? DONT GET MAD IF I DONT ANSWER THEM THO

 

[Vult Redux]

Actually, no. I just don't like this weird "cleared" train of thought.

Then that's pretty darned scummy!

I'll jump on X1 wagon because this day is dragging and my Zac wagon is dead.

Vote: X1

(He's at L-1!)

 

[#HBC | marshy]

youre online nix!

hammah!

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Can I get my reread in before anyone hammers? It should be done by the end of today.

 

[Riddle]

I HAVE asked Macman to read, several times.

unvote

I'm cool with hammering X1, but I'm going to wait obviously. Nobody take the hammer from me (well Mac can if he wants)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

votecount + deadline please

 

[Dr. Riddler]

Chaco, I'm insulted you forgot I'm in this game. -_-

do you blame him?

Marshy - Think it's weird that Marshy didn't get NK since he was cleared.

I missed something... where/when was he cleared?

 

[Dr. Riddler]

I guess X1 should claim, though I'm not seeing the merit behind his lynch.

Rajam and Tanny dying would be cool since theyre the lurkers. Esp rajam who didn't start posting untill people noticed that he wasn't

I'm thinking Zac is newby which makes me excuse some of his scummy actions from d1. I don't really mind his lynch or anyone else for that matter since any flip would be cool.

Marshy, what are your thoughts on Chaco?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

deadlines in the thread title

i tried to clear myself by claiming the blue color in the towns role pm but people got involved in some dumb discussion about how i could fake that as scum. i wonder which scum(s) was there faking the "cautious protown" role

i guess people are seeing tanny as a lurker cuz she doesnt post as much as others? i mean shes posted like every day

chaco...hm. i dont get why hes suspicious of dancer/vult but he seems okay other than that. slightly protown

x1 and rajam can die over him

speaking of which if theres a 1-shot vig or the vig is just being a ***** then feel free to take care of our rajam problem

 

[Thinkaman]

Tandora posts less than everyone except Rajam, but they are generally big posts at regular intervals. I wouldn't call her a lurker.

 

[Thinkaman]

Oh, sorry to double post but x1-12 really needs to claim now. Unlike Swiss, I'm actually interested in what he has to say.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Alright so I'm starting to close out my reread (about 70% done) and here's what I've come up with so far:

I was reminded why I was lynching for Zac in the first place. Now that I'm thinking we have gotten rid of an indy team and an indy team only, Zac isn't really cleared to me anymore. Pretty much all accustions made towards him Day 1 is how I still feel about him. No scum hunting, inconnstent stories for his actions, big attempts at self preservation, and all that jazz. Also, into Day 2 he has barely made any posts of worth. Really, I've only only got like, 2 posts of worth out of him.

Also I'm looking back at Rajam and Tandora specifically to see if those two have done anything else scummy besides "lurking", since I hate lynching people off of those reasons. So far I've noticed that Rajam was also inactive during Day 1 (only 27 posts in the game thus far). Always kind of took weak postions on things in a wishy-washy sort of way, he changed his opinon about Zac and Swiss a considerable amount, and by the end of Day 1 he wasn't even using his vote. Idk why, but post 418 grossed me out. Perhaps it's because I don't feel like he did enough with that post, just kind of took soft postions on a lot of things. Anyways though, as of now, he is one of my choices for a lynch. Btw his last post was about two days ago.

Tandora isn't posting as much as I'll like her to but what she does post I find cool. She nailed Swiss and was also pretty hot on Zac's trail, which I like. I do not, however, really understand why she has jumped on the X1 wagon as of late. Not liking how he defended Swiss is kinda of a lame reason, since his faction may not even exist anymore. Besides from that, though, she's okay in my book.

Also went back to look at X1 since so many people are focusing on him. I'm not liking how he almost completly ignored Swiss (almost being a key word here, he had some action with him) even though he was just a hot issue Day 1. It's not a connection that I'm seeing here, since I don't believe there is one, but just a sign that he wasn't focused on enough people besides Zac. However, this may seem like a controdiction, but I do not believe he was tunneling Zac. From what Zac did I'll say that X1 gave him a fair amount of attention. So overal, I think X1 did some crappy stuff, and some alright stuff, so as of now he has a null read from me. There are others who I'll much rather lynch than him.

Thinkaman I'm getting slight town vibes for. I think he was genuinly trying to help town out the first half of the Day 1 with his flavor chat, rather that was right or not.

Some of Nix's earlier posts were just balant parroting. In matter of fact, he has done this twice so far, with posts 393, where he paratoted off of several other people, and post 398, where he parrated off of my 390 post. There may of been other examples that I have missed. Doesn't help that BY, the person who he replaced, pretty much did nothing worth mentioning except putting Swiss at L_1, which I still feel is scummy (even though Swiss flipped scum). Still haven't looked fully into him, and I will do so more later.

Vult I'm definitly finding scummy. This guy has been hopping on every single popular band wagon there has been (except Swiss's). Zac I could understand, but his jumping on Chaco's wagon last minute and his jumping on X1's wagon without even giving reason as to why has set up alarm bells for me. Also not liking how he's backing down from Zac to do. Shows he's uncommited to trying to really push for a lynch, and is willing to do whatever.

@Vult: What is it about X1 that you find scummy?

So as of right now I want either Vult, Rajam, or Zac lynched. Still gotta finish the reread, though. Will do that later tonight.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Also vote remians on Rajam until I finish my reread, then I'll decide rather or not to change it.

 

[Thinkaman]

Alright so I'm starting to close out my reread (about 70% done) and here's what I've come up with so far:

I was reminded why I was lynching for Zac in the first place. Now that I'm thinking we have gotten rid of an indy team and an indy team only, Zac isn't really cleared to me anymore. Pretty much all accustions made towards him Day 1 is how I still feel about him. No scum hunting, inconnstent stories for his actions, big attempts at self preservation, and all that jazz. Also, into Day 2 he has barely made any posts of worth. Really, I've only only got like, 2 posts of worth out of him.

I hesitate to object to any of this because I don't feel good about Zac myself, but I saw very little self-preservation. He was all about appealing to efficiency "Well, lynch me if you must..." which is almost as dangerous but not the same thing.

In short, Zac isn't one of my favorite people in this game, but for different reasons than you; in addition I feel better about him now than I did Day 1.

Some of Nix's earlier posts were just balant parroting. In matter of fact, he has done this twice so far, with posts 393, where he paratoted off of several other people, and post 398, where he parrated off of my 390 post. There may of been other examples that I have missed.

This is why I included nix with Rajam in my questioning. No offense nix, but you make a lot of posts and yet say nothing. You're the opposite of Tandora and I don't like it.

Vult I'm definitly finding scummy. This guy has been hopping on every single popular band wagon there has been (except Swiss's). Zac I could understand, but his jumping on Chaco's wagon last minute and his jumping on X1's wagon without even giving reason as to why has set up alarm bells for me. Also not liking how he's backing down from Zac to do. Shows he's uncommited to trying to really push for a lynch, and is willing to do whatever.

Vult I can't make up my mind on, so I've kept my mouth shut. I don't consider him a priority.

Still think x1-12 is the right play today; I don't want to speculate beyond that in terms of future lynches.