TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

3BitSaurus

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Whoops! I edited my post to fix the link.
Thanks, just read it. You know, it still impresses me that, despite the circumstances Miyamoto describes, Ace Attorney is still among Capcom's top 10 best selling franchises. That's nothing to scoff at, especially with a company that specializes in action-packed games.
 

Wyoming

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Being name dropped by Miyamoto as an example of a well crafted game in the genre is a neat thing to hear at an investors' meeting. I could twist it to say Nintendo thus values the series high enough to warrant consideration in Smash, but I don't think we're THAT desperate...yet.
 

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Being name dropped by Miyamoto as an example of a well crafted game in the genre is a neat thing to hear at an investors' meeting. I could twist it to say Nintendo thus values the series high enough to warrant consideration in Smash, but I don't think we're THAT desperate...yet.
My favorite part is that he brings up the games he worked on and that it was a response to a question about Famicom Detective Club. He basically is saying that those games are spiritual successors and it's just nice to see them held in esteem by such a legendary designer.
 

3BitSaurus

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I wouldn't consider ourselves desperate until we freak out that every Resident Evil tweet is considered a deconfirmation of Nick like how the Banjo thread got leading up to his announcement.
To be fair, Nick' s support only got sizeable during Smash 4. Banjo's existed since Melee. Maybe after 20 years of denials, we would be desperate enough for Phoenix.

Kidding, kidding. Don't kill me please.
 
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I wouldn't consider ourselves desperate until we freak out that every Resident Evil tweet is considered a deconfirmation of Nick like how the Banjo thread got leading up to his announcement.
I still think that RE wouldn't necessarily get first dibs. I mean, we got Mega Man before Ryu, during a time when MM was mostly downplayed in favor of SF.
 

Leotsune

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To be fair, Nick' s support only got sizeable during Smash 4. Banjo's existed since Melee. Maybe after 20 years of denials, we would be desperate enough for Phoenix.

Kidding, kidding. Don't kill me please.
I can't see a timeline where AA fanbase could get Banjo/Geno levels of desperate about the character getting into Smash.
No way that happen, we are a chill fanbase.
 
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Sonsa

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Might as well leave this here, it's consolidated data that compiles results from various polls:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...pw5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469

You are free to say that fan polls don't matter, but you have to admit that it's impressive to get more attention than a Monster Hunter avatar.
Yeah, fan polls are all we got to try and reflect official requests and all, just gatta combine em with other data and make sure they've got a big sample size and some time! And an unbiased audience, a poll made by someone named something like Crash4Smash88 may have more fans that want Crash and skew the poll. Anyway! While that data is 4 years old now it still reflects what I've been thinking for a while now!

I'm real interested in seeing what other people think and it seeeems the general feeling Smash fans have at this point is:
"We're probably getting a Capcom character, but it's probably Resident Evil"
But on that spreadsheet, not Jill or Leon or Wesker or any Resident Evil rep makes a blip.

I was going on about that "Banjo after K Rool reveal" stuff and looked into more polls that Sakurai may have looked at in the August to November timeframe and combined with these polls that tried to get lots of votes, ran for a while, and seem to have unbiased audiences, you might notice something!
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...firmed_characters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/
https://twitter.com/ssbunews/status/1037437559343865856?lang=en
Resident Evil doesn't even show up! There was also the Reddit poll that Phoenix did well in but Resident Evil wasn't even an option people could vote for so that ain't fair, BUUUT now that I think of it, it was a huuuge poll lasting over a month and Resident Evil wasn't considered important enough to even be an option? And then also on that twitter poll, we got the updated results (https://twitter.com/ssbunews/status/1125204020774285312?s=21) where Phoenix did even better placing above Crash and Doomguy, and while that poll was months after DLC was decided, again, Resident Evil doesn't show up!

It all just sorta reflects what I've been feeling where it's like...it feels like people are only talking about Resident Evil in Smash nowww after Hero and Banjo have gotten in? I'm sure some people wanted RE and still do, but it was just...never enough people for me to really notice. So when people say somethin like "yep Leon Kennedy is a lock, sorry Phoenix" I just kinda get confused, like did I miss something? I know RE is successful and all, but it seeeems like fan demand is a biiig factor! Plus unique moveset yadda yadda etc

And hey, sorry if this is mean to Resident Evil fans or something, but maybe they've noticed the lack of fan demand too? It actually took me forever to even find and check the Leon Kennedy thread on this site! But maybe I really did miss something and if there's better polls to check please lemme know!
 
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To me, it feels like the RE talk is looking like fleeting trendy bandwagoning, just like it was for Steve; burgeoning support that suddenly comes up while the latest Smash is underway, coming too late to really affect it.

I mean, I've checked Source Gaming's poll results here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1riZ4HDxzIjb8OmJyV2T9KgG6M1X-r6siXljFH1nQwdw/edit#gid=0) and Jill ranks in at 193. Even if there's a silent majority out there, that doesn't look to good.
 
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Sonsa

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3BitSaurus

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I can't see a timeline where AA fanbase could get Banjo/Geno levels of desperate about the character getting into Smash.
No way that happen, we are a chill fanbase.
Jokes aside, one of the reasons why the AA fanbase is more chill than Banjo's, Geno's or Isaac's is because Nick gets a lot of love from his company. Maybe not the fanfare of Monster Hunter, DMC or Resident Evil, but he's still getting attention. Those other characters have been pretty much forgotten and set aside by their companies, with Smash being a possible shot at redemption.

This is why everyone got so tense in the Banjo fanbase. Rare has publicly stated they won't really do anything with their older IPs, so with every Smash entry, the fandom grew more desperate because it felt like another nail in the coffin.

Nick has none of that. Capcom loves him, despite not being their biggest golden goose. If anything, I guess this means we should be thankful for that.

To me, it feels like the RE talk is looking like fleeting trendy bandwagoning, just like it was for Steve; burgeoning support that suddenly comes up while the latest Smash is underway, coming too late to really affect it.

I mean, I've checked Source Gaming's poll results here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1riZ4HDxzIjb8OmJyV2T9KgG6M1X-r6siXljFH1nQwdw/edit#gid=0) and Jill ranks in at 193. Even if there's a silent majority out there, that doesn't look to good.
Hmmm, in a way, I guess so, but Resident Evil is still the only non-Nintendo top 10 biggest japanese franchise with no content at all in Smash. Ironically, because of how little support it gets in the Smash community, it would fit the bill for the "less hype" final reveals - in the sense they're most wanted by people outside of the core Smash audience.
 
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This is why everyone got so tense in the Banjo fanbase. Rare has publicly stated they won't really do anything with their older IPs, so with every Smash entry, the fandom grew more desperate because it felt like another nail in the coffin.
Well, with BK in now, I hope this'll inspire fans of other seeming never-evers to double their efforts. The pair had swallowed up attention from other characters (aside a handful like Isaac and Waluigi) for too long, so it's nice to see that situation being rectified with their inclusion.

Power vaccum's big, you know, given that there isn't any obvious logical character for fanbase focus to shift to since BK are Rare characters (although there's been some crossover with Crash fans lately).
 
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3BitSaurus

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Well, with BK in now, I hope this'll inspire fans of other seeming never-evers to double their efforts. The pair had swallowed up attention from other characters (aside a handful like Isaac and Waluigi) for too long, so it's nice to see that situation being rectified with their inclusion.

Power vaccum's big, you know, given that there isn't any obvious logical character for fanbase focus to shift to since BK are Rare characters (although there's been some crossover with Crash fans lately).
Yeah, people at the thread were vowing to double their efforts for Dixie come next Smash. As for me, I became more active in supporting Wright and found a new surprise interest in supporting Kyo Kusanagi and SNK in general. Plus the occasional glance at the Crash thread.
 

GoodGrief741

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Being name dropped by Miyamoto as an example of a well crafted game in the genre is a neat thing to hear at an investors' meeting. I could twist it to say Nintendo thus values the series high enough to warrant consideration in Smash, but I don't think we're THAT desperate...yet.
Oh you bet I'm desperate.
yeah but mega man was a more popular choice among the fans
Like us!
And hey, sorry if this is mean to Resident Evil fans or something, but maybe they've noticed the lack of fan demand too? It actually took me forever to even find and check the Leon Kennedy thread on this site! But maybe I really did miss something and if there's better polls to check please lemme know!
Thing with RE is that we've basically gone over everything that can be discussed, from movesets to stages to whatever, so at this point it's just waiting. Since Jill and Leon don't really poll, RE2R is already out and RE8 and 3R are still kinda far off, there's really not a lot to talk about I think.

I do recall Leon being very popular in the Brawl days though.
 

Northadox

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Let's talk about our greatest fantasies for Wright's reveal; particularly, his reveal trailer. How would you think it would go, and how would it incorporate the crossover aspect of Smash?
I was thinking...take Super Mario Sunshine. Remember that courtroom scene where Peach shouts "objection!"? What if instead of her, Mario and co. managed to secure a proper defense attorney instead, and where Peach was, have Phoenix shout out and prove that Mario didn't pollute Isle Delfino, and of course describe such bizarre possibilities such as him having a doppelganger? Then he states his case, pans to the court's gallery, which consists of several Smash characters, and have him state some crap like "and I'll be defending the innocent here in Smash!" He gets his title card of "Phoenix Takes the Case!" or something more clever that I can't think of, cut to gameplay with Pursuit ~ Cornered playing, badabing badaboom, people go nuts and praise or complain about the trailer on the internet incessantly and then there's a whole influx of Ace Attorney fans all of the sudden. Would be icing on the cake if that trailer came with a Sunshine sequel or rerelease...man, I can dream.
 

GoodGrief741

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Let's talk about our greatest fantasies for Wright's reveal; particularly, his reveal trailer. How would you think it would go, and how would it incorporate the crossover aspect of Smash?
I was thinking...take Super Mario Sunshine. Remember that courtroom scene where Peach shouts "objection!"? What if instead of her, Mario and co. managed to secure a proper defense attorney instead, and where Peach was, have Phoenix shout out and prove that Mario didn't pollute Isle Delfino, and of course describe such bizarre possibilities such as him having a doppelganger? Then he states his case, pans to the court's gallery, which consists of several Smash characters, and have him state some crap like "and I'll be defending the innocent here in Smash!" He gets his title card of "Phoenix Takes the Case!" or something more clever that I can't think of, cut to gameplay with Pursuit ~ Cornered playing, badabing badaboom, people go nuts and praise or complain about the trailer on the internet incessantly and then there's a whole influx of Ace Attorney fans all of the sudden. Would be icing on the cake if that trailer came with a Sunshine sequel or rerelease...man, I can dream.
While a trailer detailing some kind of case is the stuff of my dreams, the only way I can see a reveal going would be in a regular Direct, where they say it's over, and suddenly the ever famous 'Objection!' pops up, Cornered starts playing and it cuts straight to gameplay.

Then again all newcomers have gotten trailers so maybe the case thing is more likely than I give it credit for.
 

Sonsa

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-The most realistic thing to me seems to be, y'know, "thanks, we're done" "Objection!" "one more thing" and it's a cutscene using the animators from Dual Destinies/Spirit of Justice so we think it's something Ace Attorney and then it reveals a Smash character on the witness stand, you realize it's Smash, few lines, splashcreen, gameplay, extra animation and jokes at the end, tah dah!

Maybe at some point Phoenix is like "OB-" and Edgeworth is like "Hold it! Save it Wright, you'll need it for them" and points at Smash fighters looking for a fight and Phoenix panics a bit, splashscreen, and then him going into gameplay having to defend himself against challengers?

-I could also see it as a TGS presentation(not literally at TGS, but the same style), breaking the 4th wall, and having the "case" be literally on Phoenix's inclusion. Edgeworth would say Phoenix can't fight, Judge would agree, "Objection!" evidence, but not too long winded, I don't think this is the most likely or even best way to do it, but Sakurai has praised the TGS presentations specifically for their humor and all!

-Trying to make one that starts as obviously Smash and then surprise reveals Phoenix...it's a bit tougher because it'd feel unnatural if Phoenix jumped leaped on out to a battlefield. Doable though! Mario Sunshine angle ain't bad, mm... Yeah this one's tougher, maybe I'll come back to this... Just makes way more sense to do it similar to Isabelle's y'know? The surprise is more "Wait this is Smash!?" instead of "Ahh who's it ganna be??"
 
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I think a trailer similar to what Isabelle got is definitely the most likely scenario. The reveal trailers for both Hero and Banjo & Kazooie mostly focussed on the connection these characters had to fighters that are already on the roster, and I can't really think of anyone who has any apparent relations to Phoenix.
A fake-out reveal trailer that doesn't really appear to be for Smash at first just seems like the better choice. Especially if they also reveal AA7 along with it. . . it really is about time.

Potential reveal trailers aside, though, what kind of Spirit Battles do you think we could see? I personally could imagine Manfred von Karma presented as Ganondorf in his white-haired costume, with either Falco or Banjo & Kazooie fighting on the player's side, or Maya being represented by Zelda in her Twilight Princess-like alt. And come to think of it. . . Zelda would also work for Trucy, with her blue alt.
 

Sonsa

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I think a trailer similar to what Isabelle got is definitely the most likely scenario. The reveal trailers for both Hero and Banjo & Kazooie mostly focussed on the connection these characters had to fighters that are already on the roster, and I can't really think of anyone who has any apparent relations to Phoenix.
A fake-out reveal trailer that doesn't really appear to be for Smash at first just seems like the better choice. Especially if they also reveal AA7 along with it. . . it really is about time.

Potential reveal trailers aside, though, what kind of Spirit Battles do you think we could see? I personally could imagine Manfred von Karma presented as Ganondorf in his white-haired costume, with either Falco or Banjo & Kazooie fighting on the player's side, or Maya being represented by Zelda in her Twilight Princess-like alt. And come to think of it. . . Zelda would also work for Trucy, with her blue alt.
My Spirit ideas haven't changed from a couple months ago and can be found here: https://youtu.be/ybB1fpE8maY?t=1522 My favorites being Piranha Plant as Charley, Snake as Myriam Scuttlebutt, Palutena as Hikari Mikagami, Myriam and Hikari are definitely not, uhh, "important" enough for lack of a kinder word, but still, just ideas!

Ganon as Manfred ain't bad either! You could also use Duck Hunt if ya wanna represent Polly(+Missle!) I kinda thought of representing Manfred through Classic Mode with Dracula, but I can totally hear Manfred saying "DORIYAH" haha
 

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Potential reveal trailers aside, though, what kind of Spirit Battles do you think we could see? I personally could imagine Manfred von Karma presented as Ganondorf in his white-haired costume, with either Falco or Banjo & Kazooie fighting on the player's side, or Maya being represented by Zelda in her Twilight Princess-like alt. And come to think of it. . . Zelda would also work for Trucy, with her blue alt.
The only Spirit Battle focused on Ace Attorney characters I am confident on is Franziska von Karma being presented through Zero Suit Samus because both have whips.

Though I have plenty of potential ideas like Dahlia Hawthorne being represented through Isabelle and the stage is covered in poison. Maybe even make it two Isabelles to represent her sister as well. Athena could be Wii Fit Trainer since she likes to run and stay in shape and she would be assisted by ROB in battle since Athena lived with robots as a kid.

Simon Blackquil would probably be Marth or Chrom due to his sword affinity and he would be assisted by Falco to represent his hawk Taka and depending how hard they want it to be maybe even a Takamaru assist trophy helping him thanks to Blackquil's whole samurai shtick. The Steel Samurai would probably be Captain Falcon because his mannerisms in Smash is probably something you would expect to see on a kid's Saturday morning cartoon show.
 

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Franziska von Karma being presented through Zero Suit Samus because both have whips.
Why didn't I think of that! I thought Simon would work just fine, but zss makes more sense.
I wonder how many spirits they will add, not just for PW, but for the other characters, around the same number as Joker? Or even more?
 

Leotsune

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I made a new video with you guys in mind.
Yep, that's probaly how many of us see the reveal happening.

Although, I don't expect to see more animated trailers, If im not mistaken, Sakurai said we shouldn't expect more of those CGI trailers because they were expenseive to make (I don't have the source of that).
We will probably get some nice edited gameplay video for the last 2 characters.
 

MissingGlitch

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Yep, that's probaly how many of us see the reveal happening.

Although, I don't expect to see more animated trailers, If im not mistaken, Sakurai said we shouldn't expect more of those CGI trailers because they were expenseive to make (I don't have the source of that).
We will probably get some nice edited gameplay video for the last 2 characters.
In my defense (ba dum tiss) kinda hard to get smash gameplay of a character that isn't playable yet. :V
 

GoodGrief741

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Yep, that's probaly how many of us see the reveal happening.

Although, I don't expect to see more animated trailers, If im not mistaken, Sakurai said we shouldn't expect more of those CGI trailers because they were expenseive to make (I don't have the source of that).
We will probably get some nice edited gameplay video for the last 2 characters.
He said that, but then we got two CGI trailers.

For all we know, he might have meant traditional animation won't be used anymore after Joker (traditional animation is very expensive).
 

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Why didn't I think of that! I thought Simon would work just fine, but zss makes more sense.
I wonder how many spirits they will add, not just for PW, but for the other characters, around the same number as Joker? Or even more?
I'm pretty much expecting it to be close to the same amount Joker's DLC pack brought. Probably no more than 16 but no less than 5-8 for each character. The Dragon Quest pack will give us a better idea when it comes out though like how the Spirits for Joker were teammates and allies from Persona 5 I am expecting most if not all of Hero's spirit board to be teammates and close allies from Dragon Quest 11.
 

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I'm pretty much expecting it to be close to the same amount Joker's DLC pack brought. Probably no more than 16 but no less than 5-8 for each character. The Dragon Quest pack will give us a better idea when it comes out though like how the Spirits for Joker were teammates and allies from Persona 5 I am expecting most if not all of Hero's spirit board to be teammates and close allies from Dragon Quest 11.
Yeah, makes sense to have DQ11 spirits, of course I do think we'll get a couple of the other entries, man if I were to get a Munchie spirit I will literally drink water!
 

Bobthealligator

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I'm pretty sure that's the October Reddit poll I posted in my original message! Glad he's been consistent...!

Oh, sorry, but I trust PushDustin way more than Nintendo Everything... Official sites like Game Informer or Kotaku look to PushDustin for ~official~ translations while Nintendo Everything has unfortunately translating things wrong and often spread misinformation. Including a time when they passed of a picture of Kirby's skeleton as official, when it was actually fanart? PushDustin made a thread on their kinda careless news, https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1133919407791468544 So I'd consider PushDustin's translation more accurate!

But hmm...Sakurai used the ballot to make Ultimate, yeah, that's why Ridley, K.Rool, and all past veternas got in and why some like Shovel Knight and Bomberman were thrown a bone as Assist Trophies. But, probably after Ridley's reveal, he was watching reactions and looking at requests in some place(s). He definitely looked at requests after K. Rool's reveal since he says he still saw lots for Banjo even after K. Rool was announced...

The biggest poll I could personally find that fits the time frame 8/8/2018 - 11/6/2018 is that big October Reddit one. He may not even have seen it, or maybe it's one of many things he saw. Banjo won it, but Joker and Hero don't appear at all, though he does say a lot of the requests were from western audiences... I wonder where else he may have looked that actually did maybe show Joker or Hero, though Nintendo or him may have picked those themselves, but still.

Either way, Phoenix scored high on this one and I don't doubt he consistently did well in that time frame...especially against Resident Evil, I still can't remember a poll that had any RE rep even place...especially not in that time frame? People only seem to talk about Resident Evil now, I don't remember anyone mentioning it much at all before recent times.

I just think like...if he's looking for requests around that time frame, umm, Phoenix support has always been consistent, he's not someone people just suddenly started talking about, and most support did seem to have the attitude of "yeah, not base, but DLC probably" I think I remember even the Rate the Chances thread around here, back in those times, before Ultimate came out, most people were like "eh 5% for base, buuut for DLC 60%" so SEEMS like general attitude and support for Phoenix around that time was consistent and focused on DLC. Which seems perfect, especially when knowing that Sakurai was looking. Pwsh, I've rambled a lot, but it's fun haha but hey if any of yall have big polls from anywhere really (Europe, Japan, etc) that were from August 8th 2018 to November 6th 2018 just off-hand, no trouble, but if ya do, lemme peek!

Edit: Oh, here's two polls from that timeframe! Banjo did great and Phoenix didn't do baaad! I knew I wasn't remembering wrong! While he may be under spirits and other fan favorites, he always seems to be the #1 Capcom request, even in polls I saw before this time frame, like a June one by Source Gaming where Phoenix got nearly double the votes of the runner up! Anyway, here are the polls that fit in the timeframe:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...firmed_characters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/
https://twitter.com/ssbunews/status/1037437559343865856?lang=en
Data like this is very fun for me haha, but yeah, nothing conclusive, I can't be sure where Sakurai was looking and saw Banjo requests. Banjo does great here so mayyybe these, the reddit one seems to reflect many polls, so...augh, yeah...removing spirits, Phoenix doesn't have many standing in his way usually...? But he definitely wasn't as requested as Banjo, so oof, tough to say...
Can I just point out that Joker didn't exist when the Smash Ballot was a thing.
 
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