TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[ThunderSageNun]

Could just be naivete, but I don't think this makes an impact either way on one of the last two slots being a Capcom rep. Banjo aside, every 3rd party rep has come with Mii costumes relevant to their series. It's entirely possible that Sakurai would rather have the hypothetical Capcom character come with characters from their series, rather than it being a free-for-all of general Capcom Miis. I have no doubt based on precedent that we would get other Capcom characters thrown in there as well, it's just possible that he'd rather not have four of the maximum six taken up by other characters, with three of them exclusively being from Monster Hunter.

The above is a hypothetical, and with only two slots left and so much competition the possibility of us getting a Capcom rep in the first place is marginal, let alone it being Phoenix... but I don't think today's Mii Costumes affect Phoenix's chances either way outside of the fact that Phoenix's main competition from his own company is out of the running.

I think it's an 100% fair take to have, and it's not like we saw Phoenix himself get Mii Costumed to say all is lost either. That there's a lot of possibilities on who could take the last 2 slots outside of a Capcom character though is a sad reality.

 

[TheAnvil]

DMC and AA not having any content in Smash would be a bit weird. I am gonna give up on Wright at this point though and I'll just expect 2 more characters that are uninteresting.

 

[fogbadge]

DMC and AA not having any content in Smash would be a bit weird.

not really

 

[TheAnvil]

not really

It really would.

Street Fighter, Mega Man, Ghosts N Goblins, DMC, Ace Attorney and Resident Evil make up Capcom's most heavily promoted franchises. Everything except AA and DMC is now in Smash, and AA especially has an extensive history with Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

It really would.

Street Fighter, Mega Man, Ghosts N Goblins, DMC, Ace Attorney and Resident Evil make up Capcom's most heavily promoted franchises. Everything except AA and DMC is now in Smash, and AA especially has an extensive history with Nintendo.

but this is a game about nintendo not capcom and history with nintendo doesnt really matter for 3rd parties

 

[TheAnvil]

but this is a game about nintendo not capcom and history with nintendo doesnt really matter for 3rd parties

The game is about the entire video game industry. Hence the hard pivot into 3rd party content.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Bummed out.... I hoped the MH costumes wouldn't return... now the chances are slim, but yes, maybe if Phoenix was in Smash, he would get some costumes of his own series (Apollo, Miles and Athena) + maybe Professor Layton... in comparison the Monster Hunter costumes (despite being from Capcom) wouldn't fit that well thematically. The chances are smaller for sure, but I don't lose hope completely. Phoenix is still in the realm of possibility.

 

[Caladuz]

Usually I'd feel like this was a blow to any Capcom characters, but the fact that Sakurai made direct mention of there being 'a lot of Capcom characters in this wave' and providing a reason for this; has actually given me hope. I am not ready to give up yet.

 

[fogbadge]

The game is about the entire video game industry. Hence the hard pivot into 3rd party content.

Is it though? There are many many many major video game franchises that are completely absent in smash

 

[Heoj]

Imma be honest, this new wave honestly has me more confident in a capcom rep showing up next as CP10. I mean like the fact that sakurai went out of his way to specify that the capcom mii's were only there because of promotion reasons makes me pretty confident that there's still something else capcom coming later down the road since Sakurai actively negotiated for an arthur mii and a monster hunter hat. Besides, capcom has plenty of potential miis that could show up, as well as random miscellaneous mii's, so I'm not worried at all.


Plus, while I know that figure theory is pretty stupid, for all we know Sakurai could have a phoenix figure hidden

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

What is this new "figure theory" exactly?

 

[Heoj]

What is this new "figure theory" exactly?

Its mainly just a joke(well i mean some ppl are gonna take it seriously)
but its about how sakurai mentioned something about having official figures of new fighters for modeling purposes, and he says how he has secret fighters locked up somewhere. Something like that

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't think Capcom's out of the running, these two franchises clearly got their Mii Costumes now for promotional reasons. However we should be way of potential Spirit Events to promote the DGS duology, or even Mii Costumes if the next fighter releases close to it (and it's looking like it will). Other than that I see this as competition getting taken out.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

all of the biggest/relevant Capcom names for right now (sans AA) are deconfirmed

Well, that just happened. Barring any surprises, the Chun-Li rumor is the only one left that's standing.

In any case, Capcom really seems to have been getting issues trying to get a character for DLC so far (regardless whether this ends by Fall or one more extension comes up later). I figure that internal bickering happened.

 

[JustMyself13]

Well, that just happened. Barring any surprises, the Chun-Li rumor is the only one left that's standing.

In any case, Capcom really seems to have been getting issues trying to get a character for DLC so far (regardless whether this ends by Fall or one more extension comes up later). I figure that internal bickering happened.

I feel like Dante still has a great chance, no?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I feel like Dante still has a great chance, no?

The only thing we have to go on for him right now is Vergil's voice actor having went "man wouldn't it be cool if Dante was in Smash?", which is left entirely to interpretation. Don't really want a repeat of the Pass 1 incident.

Sure, the Switch ports and DMCV help, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee anything, so we'll see.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

There are only 2 spots left... Would Phoenix be a good choice for a big E3 reveal? I'm not sure, since Ace Attorney is not very well known... Would Phoenix be a good choice as a final character? I'm not sure either, since I'd expect the last character to be either someone big or a First Party rep

 

[JustMyself13]

There are only 2 spots left... Would Phoenix be a good choice for a big E3 reveal? I'm not sure, since Ace Attorney is not very well known... Would Phoenix be a good choice as a final character? I'm not sure either, since I'd expect the last character to be either someone big or a First Party rep

To be fair, Palutena and the Mii Fighters weren't a big reveal either a few years ago.

 

[AnEasterEgg]

IMO final slot is his best chance. E3 will probably be someone more mainstream, but the final fighters have often been more niche. And arriving at the last possible moment is kind of fitting for Phoenix, after all.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

To be fair, Palutena and the Mii Fighters weren't a big reveal either a few years ago.

This, and reminder the first pass ended with Byleth and Sm4sh with Bayonetta (which isn't a big name for a 3rd party). I don't think there's any warrant the last character has to be something "big" for westerners, like Crash or Sora.

 

[Yiptap]

Heck yeah! I would be down for Phoenix Wright in Smash!

 

[SmashSSL]

Weird. Right now we have almost no competition for the Capcom slot (almost)... But said Capcom slot existing at all is not as guaranteed (though still technically possible) as before...
I feel like our chances are around the same as before because of that...
This was honestly unexpected for me.

 

[SmashSSL]

I'd expect the last character to be either someone big

It's the exact opposite, imo, and that's why I can actually sort of see Wright as the last one

 

[Ny0kazer]

Maybe it's just optimism, but I don't see this as too much of a blow to Phoenix's chances (or any Capcom character really). Like others have said, this seems more like the elimination of competition (and fierce ones at that!)

It's not like a Capcom Mii pack has to dump a bunch of Capcom costumes, right? The closest things to something like this happening are the Mii waves of Joker (Sonic costumes), Terry (SamSho, KOF, and Art of Fighting costumes), Min Min (Splatoon costumes), and Sephiroth (Geno). Joker and Min Min's waves had costumes of already represented franchises, while Terry's wave is special because SNK has a large habit of making crossovers of their franchises. I can't really argue with Geno, but it was one costume instead of multiple. Since the most Mii costumes in one pack has been 6, it makes sense to spread some Capcom costumes along the Fighters Pass, especially because of how many good Capcom franchises there are.

I suppose you could argue that Capcom is similar to SNK in that regard, but SNK is huge on it compared to Capcom. Capcom also tends to do crossovers with other companies instead of internally.

 

[Caladuz]

There are only 2 spots left... Would Phoenix be a good choice for a big E3 reveal? I'm not sure, since Ace Attorney is not very well known... Would Phoenix be a good choice as a final character? I'm not sure either, since I'd expect the last character to be either someone big or a First Party rep

Remember Phoenix has a unique ace up his sleeve. He can object to No. 11 being the final DLC.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Off-subject, but the The Silver Case 2425 double-pack for Switch is coming stateside, so visual novels definitely seem to be getting something of a second wind in the West right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnZmw35tM-8

Remember Phoenix has a unique ace up his sleeve. He can object to No. 11 being the final DLC.

Especially if one considers to pay attention to the slot datamining, recently.

 

[MattX20]

If you go by what Sakurai said regarding using figures for references, Phoenix does have a Figma as well as a statue or two to use

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Do you think Sakurai has played Ace Attorney games like Dual Destinies, Spirit of Justice or the Great Ace Attorney? Sakurai once praised the concept of Ace Attorney in the past, however I think there is no concrete confirmation that he actually played any Ace Attorney game.

Sakurai played all the games that are connected to the respective DLC fighters (Persona, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, Fatal Fury, Fire Emblem, Arms, FF7, Minecraft, Xenoblade 2). I don't think Sakurai would include a fighter from a game he hasn't played so far. Playing all Ace Attorney games on top of a busy work schedule isn't anything small and would take a lot of time and normally can't be done within a few weeks. Do you think this might be an issue or am I overthinking things?

Remember Phoenix has a unique ace up his sleeve. He can object to No. 11 being the final DLC

True!!

 

[JustMyself13]

Especially if one considers to pay attention to the slot datamining, recently.

Care to elaborate on this? Was another slot added?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Care to elaborate on this? Was another slot added?

Well, I'll only say this once, since I'll get skepticism anyway.

Spoiler

Some people like Fatman would be in the know, but the gist of it is there's still 4 dummy slots for unique fighters left after the next two fighters arrive. In such a scenario, CSS-wise, there would only be three more stages that can be added without making the game crash (and still make a perfect rectangle), assuming they aren't able to tweak the code somehow.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Do you think Sakurai has played Ace Attorney games like Dual Destinies, Spirit of Justice or the Great Ace Attorney? Sakurai once praised the concept of Ace Attorney in the past, however I think there is no concrete confirmation that he actually played any Ace Attorney game.

if Sakurai can play incredibly long games like Persona or Xenoblade I don't think playing the AA series so far is outside the realm of possibilities. For Smash in particular it's likely something that could be considered part of his work for the sake of properly researching a fighter. There's probably a lot of franchises he's played and just keeps in the dark to the public as it's either irrelevant or people would just associate that instantly with a character from said game coming to Smash because that's just how this fandom rolls.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

if Sakurai can play incredibly long games like Persona or Xenoblade I don't think playing the AA series so far is outside the realm of possibilities. For Smash in particular it's likely something that could be considered part of his work for the sake of properly researching a fighter. There's probably a lot of franchises he's played and just keeps in the dark to the public as it's either irrelevant or people would just associate that instantly with a character from said game coming to Smash because that's just how this fandom rolls.

Yeah, he occasionally stops Tweeting about what stuff he played just because that gives people the wrong idea.

As such, the best that can be done is try to find circumstantial evidence elsewhere, and/or use educated reasoning.

 

[SmashSSL]

Do you think Sakurai has played Ace Attorney games like Dual Destinies, Spirit of Justice or the Great Ace Attorney? Sakurai once praised the concept of Ace Attorney in the past, however I think there is no concrete confirmation that he actually played any Ace Attorney game.

Sakurai played all the games that are connected to the respective DLC fighters (Persona, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, Fatal Fury, Fire Emblem, Arms, FF7, Minecraft, Xenoblade 2). I don't think Sakurai would include a fighter from a game he hasn't played so far. Playing all Ace Attorney games on top of a busy work schedule isn't anything small and would take a lot of time and normally can't be done within a few weeks. Do you think this might be an issue or am I overthinking things?

... He does not pick the characters.

And playing Ace Attorney is closer to reading a book than actually playing a game, he can do that while on the toilet lol
Also why assume that he can only have played Ace Attorney recently and within a few weeks?

 

[MattX20]

Currently, people are speculating based on character glitches to see if there are any traits that might indicate a playable characater. Dark Pit apparently is glitchy as of the current update.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Meanwhile, folks are taking Sak's "there are two more DLC fighters left" comment very literally. So proving the contrary to this fanbase (especially given Sak's history of having to back down on ending things on his own terms) would be a really uphill battle.

 

[Handy Man]

Meanwhile, folks are taking Sak's "there are two more DLC fighters left" comment very literally. So proving the contrary to this fanbase (especially given Sak's history of having to back down on ending things on his own terms) would be a really uphill battle.

Phoenix Wright is no stranger to uphill battles. We all have to force our biggest smiles, the miracle can happen.

 

[Ny0kazer]

Currently, people are speculating based on character glitches to see if there are any traits that might indicate a playable characater. Dark Pit apparently is glitchy as of the current update.

Here's a probably-untrue theory: Dark Pit glitching doesn't mean that the next fighter is gonna shoot a projectile. Rather, it means that there will be an Echo Fighter with the next character to keep up with the uniqueness of this DLC pass. This kinda works for Nick, no?

Who do you guys think would make the best Echo for Phoenix? It's mostly between Edgeworth and Apollo, but I think Apollo would be a better fit. It provides some representation for the post-trilogy era (although Edgey gets points for repping AAI), he's still decently popular compared to Edgeworth (at least in Japan), and he's a lot more goofy than him. Phoenix would no doubt have silly attacks like tripping over and would be clumsy in general, which would be very out of character for Edgeworth. I see him as a better semi-clone. I guess some issues could arise with Apollo's shortness when it comes to porting animations over from Phoenix, though.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Here's a probably-untrue theory: Dark Pit glitching doesn't mean that the next fighter is gonna shoot a projectile. Rather, it means that there will be an Echo Fighter with the next character to keep up with the uniqueness of this DLC pass. This kinda works for Nick, no?

Honestly, I wouldn't expect that kind of release gimmick until a FP3 gets confirmed. To me, Echoes feel more like a less development-intensive way to have extra characters at the end of a development cycle (or one phase of it, at least).

Besides, as far as FP2 is concerned, it's strictly been unique fighters, and we're more or less expecting Nick to chime in after the final fighter is revealed.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

... He does not pick the characters.

And playing Ace Attorney is closer to reading a book than actually playing a game, he can do that while on the toilet lol
Also why assume that he can only have played Ace Attorney recently and within a few weeks?

Well, he doesn't pick his own characters, however he gets suggestions from Nintendo and in the end it's still up to him whether to include the characters or not. If Sakurai thinks it is too difficult to include a fighter, then he can decline the suggestion.

Assuming Nintendo had suggested Phoenix Wright amongst other characters in 2019 for the Fighter's Pass 2 and assuming Sakurai hadn't played Ace Attorney before, wouldn't it be difficult for him to decide whether he can implement Phoenix in Smash? He'd probably have to play Ace Attorney first and then decide and this takes some time.

But yeah, maybe Sakurai already played Ace Attorney (there was this one photo with Sakurai and Takumi), so who knows, he might even be a fan of the games. It would be a dream come true listening to a Sakurai Presents were he talks about Ace Attorney and Phoenix' moveset origins for 30+ minutes.

 

[TheAnvil]

There are only 2 spots left... Would Phoenix be a good choice for a big E3 reveal? I'm not sure, since Ace Attorney is not very well known... Would Phoenix be a good choice as a final character? I'm not sure either, since I'd expect the last character to be either someone big or a First Party rep

If in, Phoenix wouldn't be totally inappropriate for the final reveal IMO. He's not E3 caliber though.